English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

jlliagre

00:03

There are québécismes, belgicismes, helvétismes, anglicismes, whateverismes but talking about francismes would be absurd.

There is just one French and the Académie française is its prophet.

2

Laurel

helvétismes? I guess that's related etymologically to the font Helvetica

jlliagre

@Laurel Ignorantus, ignoranta, ignorantum

Actually, suisseromandismes would be too long.

M.A.R.

@Mitch well, as I've said before, the right way to look at it is anything happening to bacteria is explained in relative terms and using logarithms, probably because the law of large numbers applies here. You eat a few trillion bacteria of two dozen species, and simply due to randomness some of them will survive whatever you throw at them, from stomach acid to gamma rays.

@Mitch if this is the article I saw before linked in another chat, I have to warn you of the heavy anti-SO bias of the blogger. IOW now all the y-u-downrate people have found something new to tell themselves they're 'right'.

Laurel

00:21

@Mitch Looking at this, the guy doesn't know what he's talking about. The April 2022 drop was due to cookie settings changing — analytics are not collected by default now. (I could find the post that explains this but I suspect nobody cares :p)

jlliagre

@Laurel > There are 4 reasons that explain the slow decline of Stack Overflow.

| 1. The Google Analytics Change

> The first reason is actually the quickest reason. Stack Overflow hasn’t actually lost 50% of its traffic, its more like 35%. In May 2022, Google Analytics changed how a cookie was stored due to privacy laws, leading to a reported 15% loss in traffic. The link above has an update clearing this up.

Laurel

00:44

I didn't read the article lol

There were like 7 or 8 posted recently and only a few actually acknowledged the analytics

CowperKettle

AI art O_O

Just wow.

CowperKettle

01:09

I've read that Ukrainian халепа (trouble, unhappy event) stems from Ancient Greek χαλεπά (difficulties)

I wonder how it managed to get into Ukrainian.

jlliagre

@CowperKettle cejsh.icm.edu.pl/cejsh/element/…

> In the modern Ukrainian language, the word halepa (хáлéпа) belongs to the active vocabulary, however, its archaic background is felt quite clearly, and the etymology remains obscured. The most widespread is the version about the origin of the word halepa from the Greek language χᾰλεπός. The purpose of this article is to try to offer an alternative etymology based on the background of the Balkan Slavic linguistic and ethnocultural areas. The starting point is the obsolete meaning of the word halepa ‘bad weather’ in the projection onto its South Slavic demonological character (h)ala. The se…

M.A.R.

01:25

@jlliagre 15% loss of traffic then. It is obviously not 15% now. So yeah. Bias.

CowperKettle

@jlliagre Yes, this is more like it.

Thank you!

M.A.R.

@CowperKettle of course I suppose most of the O_O is the human art that it has been fed to regurgitate

Robusto

@CowperKettle AI is predigested imagination.

user 85795

Eeewww

@Robusto it was an example going off in the other direction.

...999

vs

0.999...

M.A.R.

Wordle 777 4/6

⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛
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@user85795 not eeewww, jinx

jlliagre

01:33

Wordle 777 3/6

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CowperKettle

I’ve deleted all my German contacts from my phone
Now it’s Hans free

M.A.R.

Daily Quordle 558
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m-w.com/games/quordle/

Sloppy

CowperKettle

@M.A.R. Maybe not regurgitate, but ponder upon and reinvent.

M.A.R.

@CowperKettle quick, wipe off that "ponder upon" before you summon the Mitch

jlliagre

Daily Quordle 558
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m-w.com/games/quordle/

M.A.R.

01:44

Daily Sequence Quordle 558
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m-w.com/games/quordle/

That's more like it, although TBF it was easy

user 85795

@M.A.R. the master of the golden ponder.

jlliagre

Daily Sequence Quordle 558
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m-w.com/games/quordle/

user 85795

@jlliagre does this still exist?

jlliagre

@user85795 Sure, its members are immortels!

user 85795

:-D

jlliagre

02:00

Académie Française

The Académie Française (French pronunciation: [akademi fʁɑ̃sɛːz]), also known as the French Academy, is the principal French council for matters pertaining to the French language. The Académie was officially established in 1635 by Cardinal Richelieu, the chief minister to King Louis XIII. Suppressed in 1793 during the French Revolution, it was restored as a division of the Institut de France in 1803 by Napoleon Bonaparte. It is the oldest of the five académies of the institute. The body has the duty of acting as an official authority on the language; it is tasked with publishing an officia...

user 85795

Immortals indeed.

M.A.R.

Daily Octordle #558
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Score: 56

It's over. I win

jlliagre

The Académie is France's official authority on the usages, vocabulary, and grammar of the French language. This is obviously bullshit.

M.A.R.

@jlliagre aren't they the snobs who come up with French equivalents of internet slang terms

jlliagre

@M.A.R. They might be but they have no authority on the French language. How could they anyway?

M.A.R.

02:10

We have an Academy Farsi ourselves then

Bunch of old prescriptivist farts who've forgotten what they teach to literature students about what a language is or should be

jlliagre

> In 1997, Lionel Jospin's government began using the feminine noun "la ministre" to refer to a female minister, following the official practice of Canada, Belgium and Switzerland and a frequent, though until then unofficial, practice in France.
The Académie, however, insisted in accordance with French grammar rules on the traditional use of the masculine noun, "le ministre", for a minister of either gender. In 2017, 77 linguists retaliated with an opinion column to denounce the “incompetence and anachronism of the Académie”

> The Académie Française intervened in June 2008 to oppose the French Government's proposal to constitutionally offer recognition and protection to regional languages (Flemish, Alsatian, Basque, Breton, Catalan, Corsican, Occitan, Gascon, and Arpitan).

Daily Octordle #558
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Score: 69
It's over, I lose

M.A.R.

@jlliagre wow, you'd think something like that would only happen here

jlliagre

02:32

@M.A.R. France has a problem with its regional languages because the French constitution stipulates that French is the language of the Republic, and it's unfortunately taken too literally. People like the academicians, but actually many other don't want to touch this article of the constitution.

It's in some way similar to the US gun control issue.

CowperKettle

02:46

@M.A.R. Nah, he will just regurgitate the anti-AI stuff he has read in textbooks

Mitch

@jlliagre that's a bit reactionary. It's the academy of French, not France

@M.A.R. I heard that.

Is there something wrong with 'ponder upon'?

@Robusto or sometimes the other end

@Laurel I was surprised by the graph, but really I don't know maybe that's the real data. I find it hard to believe that so many programmers would actually rely on ChatGPT though. SO is such an institution for programming but CharGPT is just a new toy

@Laurel to be honest, about the state of my knowledge, no, I didn't know about those (or have forgotten, those memories replaced like years in the rain

There are things I've seen you couldn't believe

Attack ships off the shoulder of Orion.

Moonbeams glistening through Tannhaeuser Gate.

All these will be lost in time.

In Xanadu did Kublai Khan a stately pleasure dome decree.

Where Along the sacred river ran,

Through caverns measureless to man,

Down to a sunless sea.

M.A.R.

04:16

@CowperKettle 1) that's kinda mean, 2) it's totally irrelevant about whether or not he's right. If you're trying to make a point, you obviously made a distinction between between quoting/paraphrasing others (which chatGPT is sort of doing) and having original thoughts, something AI is still incapable of, hence you're really proving my point

Xanne

05:10

Daily Octordle #557
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Score: 67

CowperKettle

05:54

@M.A.R. There is no definition of "original thought".

@M.A.R. I did not mean to be mean. I'm very sorry.

I feel tired in my brain at all times, and I'm doing nothing the whole days.

If I would go to the local psych clinic, they will pump me with antipsychotics. So I have nothing to do.

user 726941

06:10

Try to sleep.

user 726941

06:29

@Robusto the whole purpose is to challenge the doubter to write down a real number between 0.999... and 1.000... to prove that they are different.

CowperKettle

@user726941 It does not help. I can sleep 12 hours a day. I slept half a day yesterday.

Venlafaxine does not help either. The more I take, the more I sleep on it.

It used to take 10 minutes to repeat new words for memorization in the Anki, now it takes an hour.

user 726941

What does your specialist say to do?

Simply stated if you add anything to any digit of 0.999..., the result will be greater than 1.000...

The conclusion I'm trying to sell here is that in the real numbers 1.000... - 0.999... = 0.000... is a true statement only if 0.999... = 1.000...

Xanne

07:05

Wordle 777 2/6

🟩⬜🟩🟨🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

That was nice.

M.A.R.

@CowperKettle there's no satisfactory explanation for black holes either, doesn't mean they don't exist

Vikas

@Laurel The ones I like are listed here on IMDb: imdb.com/list/ls566124990

CowperKettle

@user726941 Nothing. I have no specialist. I ran out of money, and to go to the state-funded clinic is to receive haloperidol. Because that's all they know.

Vikas

Some of them like Sholay, Swades have at least five songs in each of them.

M.A.R.

@CowperKettle something seems wrong. Have you taken a blood test lately?

CowperKettle

07:12

@M.A.R. Yes, they are okay.

Slightly elevated amylase, but it has been elevated the last 3 years.

Vikas

@Laurel But if you're specifically interested in movies that have more songs, I don't have to recommend any. They are family drama.

M.A.R.

@CowperKettle you should mention the recent difficulties to a doctor, and a good one. It might not necessarily be venlafaxine failing to work

Vikas

@M.A.R. Not the one in your avatar.

user4539917

11:50

Trump claims he only needs ‘one more indictment’ to win 2024 election

4

“Any time they file an indictment, we go way up in the polls,” Trump said during a Republican Party dinner in Montgomery, Ala. “We need one more indictment to close out this election. One more indictment, and this election is closed out.”

Vikas

12:26

If he goes to jail before 2024, can he still participate in election?

Laurel

@Mitch I think the graph is real, based on the 25k tools on SO. At this point there's a decline on SO that cannot be ignored, though the decline started many years before even what the graph shows (idr except it was well before 2022). Last time I checked we too (the non-SO sites of the network) have a drop in traffic/activity too, and I wonder if it's a direct result of that

Robusto

12:58

#Worldle #561 2/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟨⬜⬇️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
⭐⭐⭐🪙
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

@Vikas Yep.

CowperKettle

@M.A.R. Yes, I've been feeling tired in my head ever since I started having weird attacks of heaviness in my left flank, but I've been hospitalized in the gastroenterology section this June, and all they found is some "narrowing of the hepatic flexure" (don't know what that means) and "oncospheres" (possibly taeniasis), but the specialist said it's unlikely to be taeniasis.

Robusto

🌎 Aug 5, 2023 🌍
🔥 51 | Avg. Guesses: 4.39
⬜⬜🟥🟧🟥🟩 = 6

globle-game.com
#globle

Can't always smoke 'em.

@Laurel Looks like the SO entrepreneurs got out at the right time.

Wordle 777 4/6

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jlliagre

13:15

🌎 Aug 5, 2023 🌍
🔥 1 | Avg. Guesses: 6.37
⬜🟧🟥🟩 = 4

globle-game.com
#globle
Can't always stagger 'em.

Robusto

Daily Quordle 558
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Robusto

13:40

Daily Octordle #558
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Score: 60

Went really well until the single-letter completion problem.

Just because a chef makes a lot of broth, does that make him your brother?

user223626865

13:56

Just because a moth flies towards your porch light, does that make it your mother?

M.A.R.

14:36

@Robusto that damn broth made me wroth with froth

Laurel

@Robusto I can't believe how much it sold for (over a billion). It was more than it was worth, imo

M.A.R.

15:19

@Laurel to be clear, so do I. All this AI nonsense is clearly partly them freaking out

I think all renowned internet websites have this expiry date that happens sooner or later, when people explore everything there is to explore and the tragedy of the commons takes over. That's my speculation about what's happening.

IOW, it's not people not asking things that's driving down traffic. It's the horde of useless questions that people couldn't clean up finally catching up and driving quality down.

alphabet

Today in "are they British or are they wrong," H&P find this example sentence acceptable:

> You need your hair cutting by a professional.

They say it means "You have a need for your hair to be cut by a professional"

What?!

Robusto

@Laurel I share that opinion.

@alphabet We can start a rival movement: "Are they American or are they affected?"

alphabet

@M.A.R. I suspect that there's also been a slow shift in who's learning to code. It used to be people genuinely interested in coding and talented at it. Now it's people who are required to learn it or would benefit from saying that they learned it. The latter group asks less interesting questions. (Not to sound like a grumpy old man or anything.)

Robusto

Daily Sequence Octordle #558
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alphabet

@Laurel I have a feeling SO will "solve" this problem by reducing access to site analytics to avoid further bad press.

Getting bought by a private equity firm likely caused long-term problems also.

Laurel

15:33

They added a disclaimer but it's kinda dumb. "Effective May 10th 2022, the traffic data in this chart is outdated. We are working to resolve the issue. [This update was posted on July 26, 2023]"

It doesn't tell you what the problem is

Robusto

I grew up saying "bored with" instead of "bored of" and the latter sounded strange to me. I wonder if this is a regional thing.

@Laurel I think the resolution will be to jettison that feature. The long lead time for that goal is to enhance verisimilitude.

alphabet

@Robusto The issue is that you can still get decent proxies for usage data from SEDE and such, so they'd need to lock down everything.

Robusto

That could be in the offing as well.

Mitch

@Robusto no it's not regional. It's you. Just you.

Robusto

@Mitch Stop pointing your finger at me.

Mitch

15:39

Haha snort

snort snort

I'm not even trying to figure if it's weird or not.

Robusto

Oh, it's weird. No fear there.

Mitch

@Laurel oh. If -all- the sites are having a similar drop over the past few years (before ChatGPT) I'd hazard to guess that it is a google redirection problem, either google is not putting SO high enough or SO doesn't have as good SEO as it used to

Robusto

@Mitch In a game, results normalize over time. You don't see outliers in SO like you did in 2008 forward. Basically, most of the questions people have have already been asked and answered many times over. I wonder what fraction of SO questions are really virgin.

alphabet

@Robusto Yeah, my prediction is that they lock down access to such data to prevent "misinformation"

Robusto

@alphabet And "misinformation" is Newspeak for "information" there.

Laurel

15:53

55

Q: The company's commitment to the data dumps, the API, and SEDE

Many words have been written around the company's commitment to the ongoing existence of the data dumps, the API, and the Stack Exchange Data Explorer (SEDE). Much of that text can be confusing or conflicting. So in order to make clear the company's position, we're publishing this note. The compa...

jlliagre

257

Q: What will happen to Stack Overflow now that it has been sold to Prosus for $1.8 Billion?

What will happen to Stack Overflow now that it has been sold to Prosus for $1.8 Billion? Source: Software Developer Community Stack Overflow Sold to Tech Giant Prosus for $1.8 Billion Prosus’s Acquisition of Stack Overflow: Our Exciting Next Chapter

discussion stack-exchange

Robusto

Daily Sequence Quordle 558
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m-w.com/games/quordle/

jlliagre

16:10

Daily Sequence Quordle 558
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Robusto

Joel's is the kind of announcement I've heard from CEOs of corporations that were getting acquired (i.e., persons who were suddenly going to become very rich) several times now. Possibly or even probably I'm wrong, but in every case those who did not own stock fared rather less well. Time will tell in this case, but in the meantime I doubt I'll enjoy what Dr. Johnson called "a triumph of hope over experience." — Robusto Jun 2, 2021 at 17:30

jlliagre

#waffle561 5/5

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🔥 streak: 6
wafflegame.net

M.A.R.

@alphabet I wouldn't know. You do sound like a grumpy old man though

alphabet

16:52

@Vikas Yep. He wouldn't even the first candidate to run from prison; Eugene V. Debs did so about a century ago (though he had no chance of winning).

If he wins he could likely pardon himself or argue that presidents can't be criminally charged.

Vikas

@alphabet Do USA's politics allow this? Like the pardon himself?

alphabet

And I think he's right that these indictments will probably benefit him in the GOP primaries, and possibly in the general election also.

Vikas

I think there should be another candidate instead of Biden this time.

alphabet

I'm sure these indictments aren't politically motivated, since it would be the dumbest political strategy in existence. </rant>

Vikas

I don't know much.

alphabet

17:00

(I'm not defending Trump, of course, and I think indicting him was the right choice. Rule of law and all that. But this will help him portray himself as a persecuted martyr.)

Vikas

I think it would be a close election.

Robusto

@alphabet He doesn't really need any help with that.

Vikas

@alphabet Why would people believe him?

Robusto

Because he is their messiah.

What Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin and Viktor Orbán Understand About Your Brain

2

> Lying and conspiratorial thinking might seem to be two different problems, but they turn out to be related. I study political rhetoric and have tried to understand how populist politicians use language to develop a cult-like following, divide nations, create culture wars and instill hatred. This pattern goes back to antiquity and is seen today in leaders including former President Donald Trump, Hungary’s Viktor Orbán and Russia’s Vladimir Putin.

Robusto

17:21

> My research analyzes real speeches made by politicians past and present, including those of Trump, Orbán and Putin, using cognitive linguistics — a branch of linguistics that examines the relationship between language and the mind. What I have found is that throughout history, speeches by dictators and autocrats have one thing in common: they use dehumanizing metaphors to instill and propagate hatred of others.

alphabet

In the end, Biden's administration would--very, very indirectly--be trying to lock up his political opponent. This might be entirely justified, but it looks bad.

Nobody's above the law, of course, nor should they be. But the optics are awful.

@Robusto This seems to amount to saying: if you say that people in a certain group are worthless, your followers will come to believe that they are worthless. I'm not exactly shocked.

Mitch

17:48

@Vikas in modern post-enlightenment representational democracies (the US is a canonical example), the rule of law is followed (mostly!) Which is to say when in doubt, follow what the law says (but allow appeal if the meaning of the law is in doubt). A pardon is one mechanism for checks and balances (is that from Montesquieu?).

Robusto

@alphabet Well, there is a history, in conflicts, of portraying one's enemy as subhuman monsters.

Mitch

For an elected official to invoke the pardon rule for themselves is an extreme version of nepotism or self serving corruption. It is would be ludicrous to have that be allowed.

But...

Robusto

For example.

Mitch

But that's not to say that a person with the legal ability to pardon might use it for themselves and for that to be questioned in court and for the judge (or judges) to against all intention of that pardoning power decide to let the pardon stand (maybe the judges are corrupt too).

The problem is that it hasn't been specified -in- law- that a self pardon is not allowed.

Robusto

@Mitch But to permit that would be to trash democracy.

Mitch

17:55

And usually a law like that comes from a legislature who worries that it might be used that way, or a suit is brought before judges when someone tries to do it.

@Robusto that could have been a photograph from China during WWIi

Robusto

@Mitch Well, it's showing German-looking helmets, and I don't know what that signifies. Probably that the research of the publication was not topnotch.

Or that it came at a time when not much was known about the Japanese and their army. Which is more likely, since the US was primarily European-looking at that point.

Mitch

@Robusto yes. A self pardon, within the rule of law, would either open up a lot of weird uses if laws that are just inconsistent with the rule of law, or it would let lots of laws be used a little too loosely, a little too capriciously, which would s also easily corruptible/ndemocratic

@Robusto oh. I can't see it too well on my phone

Robusto

Word of the day: tooliosely adj without an abundance of caution when typing on a phone

Mitch

@Robusto snirt

Fixed

Robusto

Now fix the rest, if you have the energy.

Mitch

18:01

Oh.

I don't have the energy

No

Robusto

That's what I thought.

Mitch

Look man I'm about to pass out from m the heat as it is and you want things to be spelled right? I can barely get thoughts out in words, much less coherent ones

Where do these emoji suggestions come from?

I mean I know exactly where in principle but a shoe emoji for 'I'

Robusto

Hey, I kind of like tooliosely.

alphabet

18:16

@Robusto I think self-pardons are likely constitutional. Perhaps they shouldn't be, but it's hard to read the constitution as forbidding it. Either way, if the judiciary kept Trump in jail there would be a clear separation-of-powers issue.

@Mitch I don't think Congress even can set limits on pardons.

Mitch

@alphabet why not? There's a written law that says the US president can do a pardon. Why can't there be number attached to it? If no pardons are allowed, that's essentially the number zero . Are you saying ng there can't be a law at all about pardons and that they are extra legal so you can do it or not and nobody can stop you?

alphabet

@Mitch The Constitution delegates that power to the executive branch; there are strict limits to how much Congress can control the exercise of powers not assigned to it.

Per en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_pardons_in_the_United_States , SCOTUS has ruled:

> This power of the President is not subject to legislative control. Congress can neither limit the effect of his pardon, nor exclude from its exercise any class of offenders. The benign prerogative of mercy reposed in him cannot be fettered by any legislative restrictions.

jlliagre

18:32

@user85795 Well, "immortal" is a bit optimistic. Helène Carrère d'Encausse, the Académie "perpetual secretary" died a few hours ago. She recently said she regretted the "excessive diabolization" of Vladimir Putin's regime...

alphabet

19:09

Anyway the solution is to put us raccoons in charge. We will eat the trash that has permeated Washington.

Mitch

@alphabet oh ok

But do you think a self pardon is a reasonable thing to allow?

Robusto

19:45

The point is, Trump will test that.

2

May 8, 2017 at 4:01, by Robusto

@tchrist The danger is that he will act without thought, empathy, or restraint.

So this is no longer a useful gesture: 👌

Nazis ruin everything.

alphabet

@Mitch It's...tricky. The pardon power is (essentially) designed to override the judicial system, and as such you don't want the Supreme Court to have any level of control over it. The president is ultimately the one responsible for enforcing all federal laws, meaning he would essentially be holding himself in prison if he couldn't pardon himself.

In my opinion: self-pardoning is an awful act of self-dealing. But I don't think it's unconstitutional.

M.A.R.

20:05

@Robusto uh, no shit? Are you guys so dictator deficient that you need research to tell you this?

Robusto

20:20

@M.A.R. So far we've only flirted with that. I hope we don't get enlightened soon.

We still wear our dictator deficiency like a badge of honor.

2

But that could change.

M.A.R.

20:39

@alphabet it's not tricky, it's another case of stupid rule lawyering BS about the American constitution. Somehow some Americans have gotten this idea that the constitution is supposed to be all-encompassing like they say the Bible is, so when it doesn't prevent a criminal from pardoning themselves it's a "tricky" situation

Robusto

@M.A.R. That's 100% right. And we have these "originalists" on the Supreme Court now who think they can apply the "original intent" of the 18th century "framers" of the Constitution, while completely ignoring the spirit and intent of the document itself.

alphabet

@M.A.R. It's not morally tricky, but it is legally tricky.

> This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof [...] shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

Robusto

@alphabet He didn't make that distinction. He just said the situation was "tricky."

alphabet

@Robusto Sorry, are you talking about what I said or what MAR said?

Robusto

@alphabet Yours was a response to his.

user 85795

20:49

@Robusto I just got a suspension for that, pal.

Robusto

@user85795 Lies.

user 85795

Not here.

Robusto

Link.

alphabet

@Robusto It's a balance. The judiciary is the least democratically accountable part of the government; it's somewhat unfortunate that it's become a vehicle for political change. (Not that this has much bearing on the pardoning issue, which really is the sort of procedural thing that the courts generally end up resolving.)

user 85795

Never mind it is no big deal. I said "negro lynching" and the mod said it was a racial slur and edited out the word "negro." :-/

Robusto

20:52

@user85795 You no doubt took it out of context.

user 85795

I was talking about political scare tactics of the past.

alphabet

My favorite book of surrealist pornography (Sadly, Porn by "Edward Teach") has made me somewhat more nervous about the future of American democracy (which is, somehow, its actual topic).

Robusto

@user85795 Yeah, these topics have a way of inviting censure in chat, if you don't have the kind of warning we post in here. Even if you do, it's no guarantee people will be capable of understanding legitimate discourse on sensitive topics.

user 85795

Lesson learned: choose your words very carefully with sensitive topics.

user 85795

21:26

Choose Your Words Carefully – Especially as a Leader | Anthony Scaramucci | Big Think

►

@M.A.R. is that^ blocked for you?

M.A.R.

@user85795 more like 1) make sure nobody can reasonably misunderstand your intent.

And 2) some chatrooms will be more squeamish than others in discussing these things

FWIW I prefer overzealous modding to vaguely points in the direction of other chats on the internet

alphabet

When will I get past this thing where I listen to music and pay attention to how different artists pronounce /aɪ/?

Y'see, I had always assumed there were just two different "I" sounds: the one in cider and the one in wider. Somehow I hadn't noticed that for many other people these are the same sound, and that dictionaries don't distinguish between them.

Apparently I'm the weird one, with my "lexicalized Canadian raising."

Robusto

21:41

@alphabet I think you're the weird one. I pronounce cider and wider with the same unraised vowel.

Mitch

@M.A.R. flagged for not enough profanity

M.A.R.

@user85795 I have to turn on a VPN yeah. But no worries, not watching it now

Mitch

@Robusto I was once carded for trying to buy cider at a 7/11 when I was like 13

M.A.R.

@alphabet and it curiously coincided with your milk diet

Mitch

I couldn't understand what was going on, I just didn't get it.

M.A.R.

21:45

Kyooorious

Mitch

I had never heard or could have imagined the concept of hard cider at that age.

Robusto

@Mitch And you're sadder but wider now?

M.A.R.

@Mitch every kid of the age 10<x<15 has an experience like that

Mitch

So I got my (older) sister to get it for me.

M.A.R.

@Mitch the system works

Mitch

21:47

@Robusto haha not wider -or- wiser

@M.A.R. snirt

M.A.R.

snogger

Mitch

I mean my mom asked me to run in and get it. None of us could understand what was happening

I just got out of prison for that

We had great WiFi 'inside'

@M.A.R. but those kids aren't me

Solipsism works!

M.A.R.

@Mitch all that just to download 144p Mr. Rogers's episodes on your room-sized computer sounds like overkill

alphabet

@Robusto Crazy talk. I'm pretty sure that, for me, the vowel in ride is closer to the one in raid than either is to the one in write.

Robusto

22:10

@alphabet I'll grant that it is true of you, and I do not even require proof.

alphabet

Other people and their weird mouth noises.

M.A.R.

@alphabet go back to Canada

user 858770

Chilliwack - Crazy Talk (1974)

►

M.A.R.

Daily Quordle 559
7️⃣6️⃣
3️⃣5️⃣
m-w.com/games/quordle/

user 858770

9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣9️⃣

M.A.R.

22:17

@user858770 inflation's gotten really out of hand

user 858770

Crazy Talk

(1974)

M.A.R.

Daily Octordle #2
4️⃣5️⃣
🕚7️⃣
🕛🔟
9️⃣6️⃣
Score: 64

jlliagre

Daily Quordle 559
7️⃣5️⃣
6️⃣4️⃣
m-w.com/games/quordle/

M.A.R.

Eh

jlliagre

Daily Octordle #559
🟥🕐
9️⃣🕛
7️⃣🕚
4️⃣3️⃣
Score: 73

jlliagre

22:42

Daily Octordle #2
🕐3️⃣
8️⃣6️⃣
🟥9️⃣
🕛🔟
Score: 75

MetaEd

23:53

Wordle 777 4/6

⬛🟨⬛⬛⬛
⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛
🟨⬛🟨🟨⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

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