English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

12:45 AM

@alphabet Note that votings rings on SO are common in India, exactly because it improves people's chance of getting job.

alphabet

12:56 AM

@Laurel Indeed. To be clear: I'm not defending SE's decision or actions.

Laurel

Yeah, I think we're all on the same side here. I actually don't know anyone who agrees with SE's decision (except for people who don't really understand it — "let's not rely on detectors" would be fine if they didn't have the rest of the policy)

Cerberus

@Laurel Yes, and I also get "please be a bit more careful", if indeed they have seen wrongful suspensions over SE which they are not sure whether were based on detectors.

Laurel

Yeah, I could get behind that too. Especially if you just look at the number of suspensions that were happening on Stack Overflow. (But the SO mods are so efficient that one must wonder if they are really human.)

I don't think that my speed when handling anything is very impressive lol

CowperKettle

Yesterday was by 2°C hotter than the previous hottest 4 June on record in Yekaterinburg. And the mean temperature for the day was 10°C above the typical for 4 June.

tchrist

It never even hit 60 here today. So cold.

I gave up and turned the heat on.

Laurel

1:13 AM

Meanwhile, it was like 90F here the other day and I had to work outside

tchrist

@Cerberus And academic plagiarism in China for the same reason.

Cerberus

@tchrist Ah!

I suppose that was to be expected.

> India suffered 17,993 railway accidents in 2021, resulting in 16,431 deaths

CowperKettle

Oh.

45 deaths/day.

> In 2020, 687 people were killed in railway accidents in the EU, being Poland the country with the highest number with 148 fatalities, followed closely by Germany with 137.

Ah, this probably includes people who were walking on rails, or committed suicide.

statista.com/statistics/1192970/europe-railway-accident-deaths

tchrist

1:29 AM

@Cerberus Imagine if that happened in Europe.

CowperKettle

injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-and-community/safety-topics/….

Only 6 passenger deaths. The majority were trespassers on rails. In the USA.

Laurel

Because Americans don't ride trains. I think the last time I was on a train I was 5 years old

Cerberus

1:45 AM

@tchrist Yeah, it is a very high number, even proportional to the population.

So the 288 deaths of this week seem less 'novel' from that perspective...

alphabet

2:01 AM

When you see those photos of trains in India it starts to make more sense

@Laurel I ride trains! Granted, I'm in the city where a woman injured by a train told people not to call an ambulance because she couldn't afford it

Laurel

Seems pretty accurate

I've lived most of my life in a place where it wasn't possible to just take public transportation — you would have to drive to it first. And at that point, why not drive all the way?

And most of the places I was going to didn't have public transportation either, which makes it entirely impossible to use

Which is one of the reasons I still don't use public transit, despite finally being within walking distance of a bus stop

Cerberus

What was it like, living there?

alphabet

I actually don't have a car; when I need one, there's always Uber. Saves me a lot of money on balance

My commute is a 15-minute walk

Cerberus

> Railways, passenger km
- America: 10.3 billion (2014)
- E.U.: 261 billion (2021).

tchrist

Don't know what we would do with railroads here.

alphabet

2:15 AM

Granted, I'm the exception

Cerberus

@alphabet I don't even have a licence.

Laurel

@Cerberus Living without public transit? Your parents drive you around when you're too young to drive, then you get your license and you drive yourself places. Though, somehow, both of my brothers have made it to adulthood without getting their licenses, so they either rely on my parents or their friends to take them places (but they're away at school for now where they don't need to drive).

Cerberus

My commute is a 6-minute cycle.

tchrist

Then just don't go most places in the country.

alphabet

@Cerberus I have one, but I actually don't know how to drive. Right after I got mine, I started having seizures; by now they're fully under control, but I never had a reason to start driving again, so I'm very out of practice

Laurel

2:16 AM

Most households here have two cars, one for each parent.

tchrist

The exception is the DC to Boston conurbation.

Cerberus

@alphabet It's probably healthy for you, too.

@Laurel I suppose it is a kind of vicious circle?

alphabet

@Cerberus Biking is pretty treacherous here.

Cerberus

Too many streets are car streets?

tchrist

Remember that our population density here is 1% of yours. That means you won't have public transport most places, nor "should" you. We do have a train that goes through the state though. And you can take it like from Denver to Grand Junction. It's a very nice route.

alphabet

2:18 AM

@Cerberus Too many drivers are Bostonians.

Cerberus

tchrist

But you can't take a train from Pueblo to Cheyenne, for example.

Laurel

@alphabet Yeah, don't you don't want to f around with those. I knew someone who had uncontrolled seizures (Psychogenic Nonepileptic Seizures specifically) and even imagining him ride a bike was scary

tchrist

@Cerberus Pretty sure that includes freight, not just passenger.

Cerberus

@tchrist What counter-argument do you think I will bring to bear?

alphabet

2:19 AM

@Laurel I can actually drive now--my doc says it's OK; it would be much safer than biking. I'd just need to relearn how to drive.

tchrist

THey promised us a train. We paid decades of taxes for a train. We aren't getting a train. I'm quite bitter.

Cerberus

That is unfortunately.

alphabet

@Cerberus Average population density is misleading. Even in the big cities, where population density is high, public transit is pretty bad here.

Cerberus

@alphabet Ding!

The percentage of people living in cities is probably even greater in North America?

alphabet

Also: most people live in areas with a population density much higher than the average one.

Cerberus

2:21 AM

Exactly.

alphabet

This is, of course, necessarily true everywhere.

Yes, it's not surprising that there's no public transit in rural Wyoming. But it is surprising that there's so little in major cities, particularly outside the East Coast.

Amtrak trains run cross-country but are extremely slow by European standards.

Cerberus

America has a greater degree of urbanisation than, say, Germany.

tchrist

Denver does have some light rail. That's what they baited and switched our bottoms with.

alphabet

Partly because Amtrak trains often share tracks with freight trains, causing delays and limiting speeds.

Laurel

@Cerberus With how houses are laid out ("suburban sprawl"), there's no practical way for public transit to work. It's a real issue for the elderly and the disabled, tho there are busses that exist to pick people like that up at their houses and take them places, like a bus Uber paid for by taxes or something

alphabet

2:24 AM

@Laurel But even in urban areas, US public transit is awful by international standards.

Cerberus

So the vicious circle is this: when you have a history of car-centricity, there will be little public transportation. This in turn makes everyone use cars, which again makes people wary of investing in public transportation.

tchrist

oh my fucking god a black bear just now 15 feet away from me and my door wide open.

Cerberus

@Laurel That makes it more difficult, but you could still have buses driving everywhere.

Laurel

Biking places is also dangerous here. You have to do it on the same road that cars are on going 45mph and resenting you

tchrist

I screamed. It ran.

It wasn't black. It was brown in color, black in species.

Cerberus

2:25 AM

Yikes!

Is that the dangerous kind?

Did you close the door?

tchrist

Very very very yikes.

Cerberus

Are the friendly animals inside?

alphabet

Partly, it's that in the US public transit is extremely expensive to build, since everyone tries to use it as an opportunity to advance special interests and niche agendas, and due to a vast array of contractors scamming local governments.

Cerberus

Ah, the market economy?

alphabet

@tchrist You're also in the Northeast, right?

Cerberus

2:27 AM

The west.

tchrist

@alphabet 80304

Have to do neighborhood stuff. The bear is hiding under the scrub two doors down from me now.

alphabet

@tchrist Oh, right. You mentioned Denver.

tchrist

I'm in Boulder.

alphabet

Black bears are usually chill, at least by bear standards.

tchrist

40 degrees north, about 5600'.

I went out and screamed and stomped.

Laurel

2:30 AM

@alphabet I think I'm just traumatized. The person I knew seemed to have his seizures (which everyone thought was epilepsy) under control — until he started having one on the rock wall while I was belaying him (which at least meant he could be lowered to the ground instead of just falling). Not even the worst thing that happened to him that he miraculously survived

alphabet

It's moose you need to worry about around here.

Also, turkeys are the worst, meanest creatures on the planet.

Not a threat, of course, we just hate them. They act like they own all of suburbia.

Laurel

Fortunately (or unfortunately), in my area the only dangerous wildlife is people with guns :/ The area I live in isn't as bad as some other places nearby at least

Pretty sure people are the meanest creatures on the planet

Cerberus

We have ticks.

alphabet

@Laurel Where are you? Just curious

Cerberus

And bulls?

Laurel

2:34 AM

@alphabet Northeast USA, but somewhat south of you

alphabet

Turkey flocks like to block the sidewalk or stand around on your car. At this point nothing scares them away. They freak out when they see their own reflections.

Laurel

Maybe some day I'll reveal a more exact location. Either that or drop the local name of submarine sandwiches or something by accident lol

Cerberus

Submarine?

alphabet

@Laurel Ah. The most ironically-named city in the US?

Laurel

@Cerberus We also have ticks in my area, and they carry Lymes disease, which is really bad

Cerberus

2:36 AM

@Laurel Exactly.

Laurel

@alphabet Perhaps ;)

Cerberus

I still prefer ticks over bearan, though.

Laurel

I live deep in suburbia tho

alphabet

@Cerberus You don't have subs in Europe? It's fine, you're not missing much.

Cerberus

I do not know what they are.

Laurel

2:38 AM

@alphabet That's offensive :p Of course he's missing out

s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t

alphabet

@Laurel Don't some of you make yours with spray-on cheese?

Laurel

@Cerberus I don't know how to describe it other than it's a long sandwich that comes loaded with all types of toppings, whatever you want to have (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_sandwich)

Cerberus

@s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t My first guess would be Montréal.

s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t

Love my Métro, yes, Montréal.

Cerberus

2:41 AM

@Laurel Well, we have sandwiches made from baguettes, but do they need a special name?

I love the metro as well.

Laurel

@alphabet I don't think I've ever seen one with spray on cheese. Usually some sort of sliced cheese tho. There are like 6 or so kinds that are common

Cerberus

It's just the best mode of transportation, except that it is so expensive to construct.

Now that we bore the tunnels, they are no longer destructive.

alphabet

We don't have a good subway system, but we have a great Subway system.

Laurel

@Cerberus In the US, there are dozens of different regional names

alphabet

@Cerberus I bet you don't even have cheese in spray form. Shame.

Cerberus

2:44 AM

@Laurel Is there a reason why this one type of bread results in a special name for sandwiches?

@alphabet Alas.

Laurel

@alphabet Apparently they're "the largest restaurant chain in the world" tho they're not the main place people round here go to get subs

Cerberus

We do have spreadable cheese...

s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t

So expensive indeed, but we don't care. We want more!

rem.info/en

Cerberus

@s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t Yay!

We also have a new line. But it cost many times what was expected.

It's a nice line, though.

Laurel

@Cerberus No idea

alphabet

2:46 AM

Oddly enough, we sometimes call them "Italian sandwiches," despite them having no obvious connection to Italy

s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t

Good to hear! I never had a car in Montreal. Don't even have a license. @Cerberus

Laurel

Anyway, there's not really a good reason to build underground trains in most areas in the US. There's enough space aboveground. It's just occasionally annoying to have to stop your car at the train tracks

alphabet

The green line is mostly aboveground, though.

Also, this is not at all to scale.

Laurel

@alphabet AY! The bread is Italian

alphabet

@Laurel Granted, American "Italian" food is only somewhat more authentic than American "Chinese" food.

Incidentally: they're removing some stops on one line, which is a good thing because it currently moves at 4 miles per hour.

Laurel

2:52 AM

Chinese food is really interesting, since some of it is simply rebranded Japanese food because Americans were especially racist during WWII. That's where fortune cookies come from

The names of Chinese restaurants are also one of the few places I still hear the word "Oriental"

alphabet

@Laurel Also the old Romanization "Peking"

tchrist

@Cerberus Yes. Because "sandwich" here means "pan de molde" not "pan de barra". It's on a sliced square loaf, not on a baguette.

I'm too tired and flustered to write carefully.

alphabet

@tchrist We do have "baguette sandwiches" in the US. They're usually vaguely French somehow.

s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t

banh mi

alphabet

That's America. You can get food that pretends to be from every country on Earth

s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t

3:00 AM

That fusion is great.

Cheers!

alphabet

We also keep their names with the original spellings...but then completely change the pronunciation.

Laurel

@alphabet But most of what's left of the resemblance is a name mangled into American English

ha

alphabet

*typo

Except for Chinese foods, where we mostly just make up new names.

Laurel

OH

My dad always called ramen "oriental noodle soup" which is a habit that I picked up too XD

alphabet

@Laurel Ouch.

My dad once in a while still calls people "Oriental," but I think he's finally learned to stop.

tchrist

3:06 AM

@alphabet I'm aware of that happening in cities. I've lived here a very long time. But like Lauren said, these go by different names in different places.

@alphabet Be nice.

I wouldn't dare try to get my relatives in their 70s to 90s to stop using the language they've lived so long speaking. Well, except for the taboo slurs. But they don't say those.

alphabet

Indeed.

Cerberus

@alphabet Hmm hard to guess. Maybe Boston?

tchrist

It's still "oriental food" in the rural midwest. You can't make the old farmers speak politically correctly, and it will just make them upset to try.

Cerberus

@s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t Same.

alphabet

@Cerberus Indeed.

Cerberus

3:09 AM

@Laurel I don't think Japan is typically called a race.

tchrist

@alphabet My great-uncle who fought in Korea doesn't even do that!

alphabet

We're also the most racist city in the US (according to surveys of Black people, IIRC). Ugh.

tchrist

But oriental food and oriental carpets, sure.

@alphabet Oh you have black people? :)

Cerberus

@alphabet Yay.

tchrist

I got kind of bothered by an article in the Guardian this week about all this.

Laurel

3:10 AM

@alphabet Luckily I can't remember my dad doing this or he does it exceedingly rarely

alphabet

@tchrist Yep. Their median net worth is around $8. Yes, you read that right.

tchrist

It focused on a neighborhood just ten miles from me. Let me find it. They were saying how 15% Hispanic didn't count as "diverse" and it just blew my mind.

I really hate when people use urban to mean black, or diverse to mean black.

Cerberus

Oh, is that the euphemism du jour?

Sounds annoying.

tchrist

> The Guardian: Who can afford America’s perfect neighborhood?

@Cerberus Infinitely.

alphabet

In Boston, local residents prevented one of the train lines from being extended into suburbia, since they thought it would bring "undesirables" in.

tchrist

3:13 AM

> What Prospect doesn’t have, along with affordable housing: racial diversity. Like much of Colorado, Longmont is predominantly white, with only about a quarter of residents listing their race as Hispanic and 1% as Black on the 2020 census.

In what world is that not "diverse"? That's one in four, or a trifle above it.

Cerberus

Why focus on skin colour so much, one wonders, rather than on socio-economically poor groups?

@tchrist It is not diverse racially.

tchrist

@Cerberus It's not 100% white.

Cerberus

Which is why this focus on races is i.m.o. best left behind in 19th-century Europe.

tchrist

It's 26% non-white.

That's pretty diverse.

alphabet

@tchrist Hispanic isn't a "race" on the census, though. That said, America is 19% Hispanic, so 25% isn't much higher.

Cerberus

3:15 AM

Well, aren't Latinos mostly white?

tchrist

No more than Italians are.

That's a joke.

alphabet

Technically Hispanics are usually considered a subset of "white" people on the census.

Cerberus

Isn't the word race the problem here, as usual?

Ignore it, banish it.

tchrist

And no, it is considered that Latinos don't count as white. White is about power and language, not color.

Cerberus

That is...bad.

tchrist

3:16 AM

Tell me about it.

Cerberus

Imprecise, confusing language.

alphabet

@tchrist Except on the Census forms, which treat it as a separate category. There's some debate about changing that IIRC.

Cerberus

One ought to use a different word if that is what one wished to convey.

Laurel

Officially, we have white hispanic/latino and non-white hispanic/latino, i.e. not a race by itself

Cerberus

If you have enough Indian blood while being from Mexico, one might imagine you could call yourself red rather than white.

alphabet

3:17 AM

The issue is that Latin-American countries (like Brazil) have their own systems of racial categorization that don't map onto American ones.

tchrist

I remember an immigrant from Spain who was angered that Americans considered him "hispanic".

Cerberus

Or...maybe just don't use skin colours as determinants where they aren't really necessary nor optimal.

alphabet

In the US, the presence of social and legal prohibitions on "miscegenation" kept racial groups distinct, which didn't happen as much in the rest of the Americas.

Cerberus

If Hispain isn't Spanic, then what is?

tchrist

@Cerberus Well yes, los indios there have their own words for themselves. I don't think they use colors, though. :)

Cerberus

3:19 AM

I think it would make more sense to distinguish between ethnic groups rather than skin colours, in most cases.

alphabet

Nobody in Mexico really keeps track of what "percent Indian" they are. See: La Raza Cosmica

Cerberus

In some cases, there is a rough convergence of ethnicity and skin colour, but in others there isn't.

tchrist

@Cerberus It was the diminutive he took issue with, which is going to work out to something like "-oid" or "-ish" there. Soy español, no "hispánico" he would say.

Spanishish.

He isn't Spanishish. He's just Spanish.

Cerberus

Oh, is that a diminutive?

tchrist

Well, it overlaps with one.

It isn't, though.

But the same spelling is a diminutive in certain regions there.

alphabet

3:21 AM

Also see "Casta charts"

Cerberus

Isn't it rather "of", as in German/Germany, Germanic?

"Related to"?

tchrist

alphabet

tchrist

Those are the diminutives by region in Iberia.

alphabet

^ The old Latin American system of racial categorization. Doesn't really fit with any we have in America.

Cerberus

3:23 AM

> From i-stem + -cus, occurring in some original case and later used freely. Cognate with Ancient Greek -ικός (-ikós), Proto-Germanic *-igaz (Old High German and Old English -ig, Gothic -𐌴𐌹𐌲𐍃 (-eigs)), Sanskrit -इक (-ika), Proto-Slavic *-ьcь (the last has fossilized into a nominal agent suffix, but probably originally also served adjectival functions).

tchrist

The -ito version was the Castilian region one, and it made it to the Canaries and so was transmitted from there to most of America.

@Cerberus Yes, that's a different morpheme.

Laurel

I think in America, people just classify you based on how you look (and to a lesser extent how you speak) instead of what your actual heritage is

alphabet

(Partly because those sorts of relationships didn't generally exist in most of the US until the mid-20th century.)

@Laurel Yep.

Cerberus

@alphabet Haha I can hardly believe this was serious.

tchrist

And -ino becomes just -ín for the masc sg. Normally.

Cerberus

3:26 AM

@tchrist How so?

Isn't Hispanic from Hispanicus?

alphabet

Obama was half-white, but obviously nobody said he wasn't "fully black." It's about color and identity, not heritage.

tchrist

@alphabet He never grew up with AAVE.

alphabet

@Cerberus Yep. Don't worry, after three generations you get to become an "Espanol" again.

tchrist

@Cerberus It is indeed. But that is not the diminutive use.

Cerberus

@alphabet Only if you're part Indian!

tchrist

3:27 AM

@Cerberus It was. They had words for everything.

Cerberus

@tchrist OK so this Spaniard was simply confused about the origin of the word Hispanic?

@tchrist But this many? To so many degrees?

alphabet

@Cerberus Yes. Black people stay non-white. But nobody made these categories in the US. There weren't many marriages between people of different races until relatively late.

Cerberus

Who could ever keep track of that?

Laurel

@alphabet What about Kamala Harris?

tchrist

@Cerberus Kind of, yes. But if español means Spanish (and Spaniard), you can see why he doesn't like being called Spaniard-like instead of Spaniard.

Hispano is better than hispánico anyway.

For a while we had to call Brazilians hispánicos as well here. They didn't like that, although of course two thousand years ago it wasn't a thing.

alphabet

3:30 AM

This is why "Hispanic/Latino" is such a slippery category in the US. There was nothing holding racial categories in place in Latin America, so they ended up with very different patterns of skin color, heritage, etc. than we see elsewhere.

tchrist

There's no checkoff for Lusitanian though.

alphabet

@tchrist Yep. And now we have the debate over "Latinx"

Cerberus

tchrist

@alphabet That's an offensive word.

Cerberus

As you well know.

tchrist

3:31 AM

@Cerberus I was thinking of that very thing.

Cerberus

I figured.

So Hispanic may not mean Spanish.

Laurel

I was about to say, I think Latinx is the descriptor Spanish speakers hate the most

Cerberus

But the entire paeninsula, and by extension its former colonies.

tchrist

@Cerberus Which is how the arrival paperwork used to read. It was from Iberia or any of its colonies.

alphabet

@tchrist Where I was in college there was a big push to replace "Latino" with "Latinx," even though most Latino people in the country at large find it somewhat perplexing

tchrist

3:33 AM

That's how it used to be. I don't know if it still is. Been a while since I've come in from overseas on a plane.

alphabet

I've heard some people using "Latine," which can at least be inflected properly in Spanish

tchrist

@alphabet It's unpronouncibly horrific. The morphology and phonology forbid it.

@alphabet Almost none. A few activists. Good luck with that.

Laurel

I think Latinx gets a lot of undeserved hate, tho I don't speak Spanish and it's not worse than what we've done to other words in terms of pronunciation :p

Cerberus

I don't think any such hate is undeserved.

alphabet

@Laurel The issue is that Spanish speakers have trouble using it in Spanish

tchrist

3:35 AM

Stupid gringachos don't get to decide other people's names for themselves in their own language that the name-callers can't even speak.

Cerberus

The whole thinking behind it is an abomination to me.

tchrist

@Cerberus Utterly.

I simply won't fucking talk to people who try to tell me how I have to talk.

Laurel

I'll have to ask my friend in South America what term she prefers. She actually hates that it's so hard to speak gender neutrally in Spanish

alphabet

You also see "Latin@," which for some reason means "Latino or Latina"

Cerberus

@tchrist I will, as long as I can just ignore their suggestions.

tchrist

3:36 AM

@alphabet Can't pronounce it.

LATINARROBA sounds silly.

@ is arroba in Spanish and Portuguese.

Cerberus

@Laurel As in any Indo-European language that I know, you can just use the masculine endings for someone neutral?

alphabet

@Cerberus Yes, but some Americans have decided that adopting this usage is sexist

"Latinx" is an attempt to include non-binary people who are neither "Latinos" nor "Latinas." It's a rather tortured expression and is quite unpopular with everyone except progressive activist types.

tchrist

I'm too old for these junior-high-school fantasy-rôle-playing innovations in their games leaking into the real world and color my own language. Not going to happen.

Laurel

@Cerberus I mean, not really? You're just going to sound like you're referring to a man

tchrist

@alphabet Gender not sex, sex not gender. Please no.

Cerberus

3:39 AM

@alphabet Facts are not decided, though.

tchrist

@Laurel But it's true.

Mis amigos doesn't exclude girls.

Cerberus

People who are neuter can easily be grouped under the neutral masculine endings, just as women can.

Laurel

I'm pretty sure my friend would abandon Spanish entirely for an English where you had to use the word "Latinx" lol

Cerberus

@alphabet Ugh those types would almost make you vote Desantos, or whatever his name is.

tchrist

Nosotros doesn't mean "we guys who aren't girls" and vosotros doesn't mean you guys who aren't girls. It's both.

Cerberus

3:41 AM

@Laurel No? Masculine is what's used when you don't know someone's sex.

tchrist

But nosotras can only mean "we girls" and vosotras can only mean "you girls".

alphabet

@Cerberus Yes, but if you insist on using "Latino/a" instead of "Latino" due to "sexism," then it becomes a problem, since "Latino/a" suggests the existence of exactly two options

tchrist

@alphabet There are only two grammatical genders in Spanish substantives.

You don't get to make up new ones.

alphabet

Trying to "fix" the alleged sexism problem creates the alleged transphobia problem.

Cerberus

Insisting on artificialities because of imagined offences committed by mere words...that's just silliness upon silliness.

tchrist

3:42 AM

Yep.

alphabet

Of course, nobody outside the US cares about any of this, and the Spanish language forbids it.

tchrist

Of course it does.

Cerberus

No, indeed. I care less than nothing.

I try to ignore any such discussions.

tchrist

You don't get to invent new numbers for duals and triples, either. The grammatical system is closed.

Laurel

@alphabet That's not entirely true, but I think the people elsewhere are either less likely to care, or less likely to feel like they can talk about it

alphabet

3:44 AM

Now let me tell you about the invented word "folx"

tchrist

There isn't an inflexional mechanism for specifying duals any longer, let alone trebles.

alphabet

@Laurel Fair enough.

tchrist

And you will NOT be able to change that. It's like trying to find gradations between these and those.

Cerberus

Isti?

tchrist

Or adding a more distant grade.

Cerberus

3:45 AM

The dual exists as well!

alphabet

Incidentally: there are some people who claim to have multiple personalities and request that people refer to them using plurals.

Laurel

@tchrist Aw, but I think wit should bring it back

tchrist

@Laurel But that's just me and thee, so nobody would understand us.

alphabet

@tchrist Yonder is still around.

tchrist

@alphabet Where? :)

alphabet

3:46 AM

@tchrist Over yonder

Laurel

We'll find more people and call them yit

Cerberus

Is yonder related to you?

tchrist

No.

Cerberus

OK.

Dutch ginder and gij (kind of).

tchrist

> Etymology: Old English geon adjective (rare), corresponding, with variation of vowel, to Old Frisian iêna , gêna (ienn- , inn- ), West Frisian jinge , Old High German jenêr , Middle High German, German jener , also Old High German, Middle High German enêr , German dialect ene(r , Old Norse enn , inn , hinn , definite article, (Swedish, Danish hin ), Gothic jains that. The Germanic bases underlying these forms, or other variants of them, are represented also in Old High German ennân , Middle High German enne(n from there, hither, Old High German en(n)ônt , Middle High German en(n)ent yonde…

alphabet

3:47 AM

I think the modern dual you would be yeet

You do here "yonder" on rare occasions. Usually as a determiner ("yonder hills")

tchrist

@alphabet Only in the nominative and vocative. Would hafta be yoot in the objective. :)

alphabet

Or in "over yonder"

Laurel

There was a TV show called Wander over Yonder that was on when I was too old to be interested in seeing it

alphabet

"The Lord yeeteth, and the Lord yoinketh away," as the meme goes

tchrist

@alphabet What's its plural? this > these, that > those, yon > ????

Cerberus

3:49 AM

Jese?

alphabet

@tchrist Isn't it "yonder" in both singular and plural?

I think both "yonder hill" and "yonder hills" are correct.

tchrist

@alphabet Yes, which is why it doesn't fit the paradigm.

Laurel

I schal ʒete oute of my spiritte vpon alle flesche…vpon my honde-maydens I schal ʒote oute of my spiritte.
"I yeet out of my spirit upon all flesh… upon my handmaidens I yote out of my spirit."

alphabet

Is dis the singular of deez?

tchrist

Rory Alsop has another one from the Orkneys. I forget what it is. He posted to ELU about it once.

Laurel

3:51 AM

It's not important why I have this Bible excerpt on hand lol

tchrist

@Laurel The Handmaid's Tale?

@alphabet Doze arna words, or if dey are I dint know't.

Laurel

@tchrist It's apparently from Acts of the Apostles (14th century)

I stumbled upon it one day and knew that I had to translate it

tchrist

Acta is an odd book.

tchrist

4:09 AM

Okay I just now found Randy sleeping peacefully on the loveseat in the basement. House secured against home invasion. Lorin had been hunting in the garden when the bear showed up so he came running in at full speed. I looked up and saw a Big Foot-like creature at the oriole feeder lapping up the jelly 15 or 20 feet away from me through the open door. At least a bear can't jump that distance in the wink of an eye at my throat before I could even shut the door the way a mountain lion can.

He doesn't usually come hightailing it in that fast unless he and Randy are playing catch-me games, so I looked up to see whether a dog had somebody gotten in the fence. I should be so lucky.

Bedtime.

Cerberus

I am glad the twain are secure.

CowperKettle

6:58 AM

Wagner Group posted a video in which they showed a leutenant-colonel (!) of the Russian Army, whom they took captive after he fired at their car. They made him to make an apology.

A group of mercenaries takes a high officer of a real army captive.

If a mobilized man punches an officer in the face, he can get 2 years of jail, which recently happened. But these guys can take a whole colonel

jlliagre

8:23 AM

Meanwhile in Paris, "The world's biggest dictation":

CowperKettle

9:34 AM

Cool

jlliagre

9:56 AM

@CowperKettle Dictées have been quite popular in France since a couple of centuries. Spelling bees don't exist in France, probably because many words need a context for their spelling to be guessed.

CowperKettle

10:09 AM

Spelling bees don't exist in Russia either because words are often pronounced as written

CowperKettle

11:31 AM

COUNTERFEIT PEOPLE. DANIEL DENNETT. (SPECIAL EDITION)

►

Robusto

12:42 PM

#Worldle #500 2/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟨⬜⬇️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
⭐
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

user 858770

30

Q: Academia.SE Moderation Strike

Effective immediately, the moderators of Academia.SE (wrzlprmft, cag51, and Bryan Krause) are on strike. This is part of the network-wide action described here, and follows an Academia moderator resignation a few days ago. We will not perform any moderation functions until this situation is resol...

discussion

Robusto

🌎 Jun 5, 2023 🌍
🔥 24 | Avg. Guesses: 4.52
⬜🟧🟧🟥🟧🟩 = 6

globle-game.com
#globle

@user858770 Maybe we can just let ChatGPT moderate all the SE sites.

user 858770

One Big Fist

►

Classic union flick.

✊

@Robusto wouldn't that be letting the scab labor pass the pick line

user 726941

1:20 PM

284

Q: Moderation Strike: Stack Overflow, Inc. cannot consistently ignore, mistreat, and malign its volunteers

Introduction As of today, June 5th, 2023, a large number of moderators, curators, contributors, and users from around Stack Overflow and the Stack Exchange network are initiating a general moderation strike. This strike is in protest of recent and upcoming changes to policy and the platform that...

discussion community company

Robusto

1:38 PM

@user858770 ChatGPT doesn't honor picket lines.

Matewan

Matewan () is a 1987 American drama film written and directed by John Sayles, and starring Chris Cooper (in his film debut), James Earl Jones, Mary McDonnell and Will Oldham, with David Strathairn, Kevin Tighe and Gordon Clapp in supporting roles. The film dramatizes the events of the Battle of Matewan, a coal miners' strike in 1920 in Matewan, a small town in the hills of West Virginia. Matewan was a critical success but a box office flop, grossing under $2 million on an estimated $4 million budget. The film received a nomination for the Academy Award for Best Cinematography, and received ...

That film is excellent.

M.A.R.

1:54 PM

My daddy was a miner, and I'm a miner's son

He'll be with you fellow workers, until this battle's won

Or something like that.

Robusto

2:49 PM

Feb 11, 2021 at 1:55, by Robusto

My grandfather was a coal miner, died in a mine accident, and is buried in the same cemetery as Mother Jones. How's that for ironic?

Mother Jones

Mary G. Harris Jones (1837 (baptized) – November 30, 1930), known as Mother Jones from 1897 onwards, was an Irish-born American labor organizer, former schoolteacher, and dressmaker who became a prominent union organizer, community organizer, and activist. She helped coordinate major strikes, secure bans on child labor, and co-founded the socialist trade union, the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW). After Jones's husband and four children all died of yellow fever in 1867 and her dress shop was destroyed in the Great Chicago Fire of 1871, she became an organizer for the Knights of Labor and...

Mitch

3:10 PM

@Cerberus That's very little caring. Hardly any at all

@Robusto CharGPT is a honor

@CowperKettle how about пожалуйста? (The last 4 letters)

Or what's the politeness term that starts 'zdrastv...'?

Robusto

3:34 PM

pete seeger which side are you on

►

Those are the lyrics you're looking for.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…