English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

jlliagre

00:10

@Robusto Not really, it's hard to guess a precise meaning from lubricilleux but the first that come to mind is some derivative of lubrique (lecherous). I might have coined gluouple, visquouple or souplisqueux (from gluant/visqueux and souple.)

that comes to mind even.

Robusto

@jlliagre It reminded me of lubricious.

Which has sexual overtones, but comes from having a slippery or smooth quality.

jlliagre

00:27

@Robusto Lubrique only has the first meaning. The second one is closer to lubrifié (lubricated). I would then coin lubrisqueux (lubrifié / visqueux)

CowperKettle

> - If judging people for their race is racism, then what is judging people for their grades in school?
- Marxism.

> Why did the hispster burn his mouth?
He ate soup before it was cool

jlliagre

@CowperKettle and judging shoes on their sole is solecism.

CowperKettle

And judging people by their fashion is..

jlliagre

Parisianism?

CowperKettle

Yes!

Cerberus

00:41

If Chat GPT can do puns, that only show how superficial and uninteresting puns are...

> “We are at a turning point right now,” said Oleg, a businessman in Belgorod. “When this all started,” he said, referring to the war, “the people who opposed it here were a minority. Now after four days of being shelled, people are changing their minds.”

I wonder whether this is true.

Or wishful thinking.

CowperKettle

Nobody knows

Word of the day: felucca ("The London family had financial problems and it was Prentiss who lent the 15-year-old Jack London $300 to buy his first boat, a felucca, which he used to work as an oyster pirate in San Francisco Bay")

Cerberus

@CowperKettle I suppose that makes sense.

@CowperKettle A boat I associate with the Near East.

jlliagre

@CowperKettle Felouque.

tchrist

@Cerberus Sounds just like ChatGPT attacking Stack Overflow.

Cerberus

Hah.

No doubt also painful.

tchrist

00:48

Falucho (embarcación)

En náutica, el Falucho es una embarcación cuya característica principal es que su mástil va muy inclinado hacia proa y que la vela que iza es latina de gran superficie. (fr. Falouche; ing. Felucca; it. Faluccio).[1] El falucho (embarcación pequeña a vela latina) no debe ser confundido con el faluca o falua (embarcación grande a remo) que tienen cognados con otros idiomas, así el falucho en inglés es felucca que es distinto de faluca en español. Teniendo en cuenta lo anterior, los faluchos despojados de su arboladura y velamen se utilizan en competición de remos. == Historia == Su uso se generalizó…

> así el falucho en inglés es felucca que es distinto de faluca en español

Good luck keeping that straight in your head for more than five minutes.

And before you ask, a vela latina is a lateen, which we corrupted from the French.

Vela of course is the sail.

Lateen

A lateen (from French latine, meaning "Latin") or latin-rig is a triangular sail set on a long yard mounted at an angle on the mast, and running in a fore-and-aft direction. The settee can be considered to be an associated type of the same overall category of sail.The lateen originated in the Mediterranean as early as the 2nd century CE, during Roman times, and became common there by the 5th century. The wider introduction of lateen rig at this time coincided with a reduction in the use of the Mediterranean square rig of the classical era. Since the performance of these two rigs is broadly similar...

CowperKettle

Cerberus

> wrestling back territory

New York Times.

tchrist

They've been watching too much porn.

CowperKettle

> - Dad, look! I'm a 3D printer!
- Johny, close the goddamn bathroom door!

jlliagre

@tchrist Ah! Shock a lateen!

Cerberus

00:58

@tchrist Would you write it like that?

tchrist

Man the boat people have different words for everything!

CowperKettle

They have 100 words for snow.

> "Brail up the snow!"

tchrist

@Cerberus It's the wrong word, Noël. Try wresting. It means subjecting something to a wrenching movement. All the wr- words are like that.

Vela latina

En náutica, la Vela latina es una vela de cuchillo, o triangular, diseñada para ser propulsada por el viento. == Descripción == La vela latina se enverga en una percha que recibe el nombre de entena. Esta entena puede estar formada por una, dos o tres piezas. La parte más segura y gruesa y que queda abajo y a proa, recibe el nombre de car y la parte más delgada, que queda a popa y alta, recibe el nombre de pena. Si la entena es de una embarcación grande o ya es un poco vieja, puede llevar una tercera pieza, para reforzarla, llamada quimelca. También como vela marítima. Car, pena y quimelca se…

Cerberus

@tchrist OK I'm glad I haven't gone crazy, then!

tchrist

> recibe el nombre de car

Cerberus

01:00

I just didn't expect them to use wrestle for wrest.

I seemed more likely to be crazy than the newspaper.

tchrist

Car? Why car?

Car ils l’avaient voulu.

@Cerberus Well, it's late. One questions reality during these haunted hours.

jlliagre

@tchrist Del cat. car, y este del gr. bizant. κάροιον károion.

tchrist

Bring me my chariot of fire!

Cerberus

@tchrist It's only 3 o' clock here!

I've been home from a birthday party for an hour or so.

tchrist

@Cerberus Are you hyperboreal?

If not, then it's dark.

@jlliagre There was something else on that page that struck me as Catalan. Lemme find it.

Cerberus

01:03

It has been dark for four hours or so.

tchrist

> llagut

Cerberus

But darkness cannot touch me.

tchrist

@Cerberus Sets the sun here at 8:17pm tonight, but it dips behind the mountains 60 or 70 minutes before that, so about now. But I wouldn't know: we've been very cold and rainy, even thunderous, all day.

jlliagre

@tchrist Petita embarcació de cabotatge amb vela llatina o triangular que es fa servir per pescar.

tchrist

See, I told you the word felt catalana.

Makes sense: from the Crown of Aragon came the great mariners.

Not those poopy-footed shepherds from Castile.

jlliagre

01:07

Barquette marseillaise

La barquette marseillaise est une barque de pêche traditionnelle et emblématique de Marseille, en mer Méditerranée. Variante des mourre de pouar, bette, pointu, et barque catalane, elles sont propulsées par aviron, voile latine, ou moteurs Baudouin. La barquette marseillaise et son savoir-faire lié à sa construction et son utilisation sont inscrits à l'Inventaire du patrimoine culturel immatériel en France, et quelques-unes sont protégées au titre des monuments historiques. == Historique == D'après le musée des Civilisations de l'Europe et de la Méditerranée de Marseille, les origines de ce type...

tchrist

The Martians had to steel the Barça’s barques?

jlliagre

No steel, wood.

tchrist

See, I told you these merfolk had their own words for everything.

Cerberus

@tchrist That is an interesting inversion.

Somehow I doubt whether it is found in the wild.

tchrist

@Cerberus I'm trying to poison ChatGPT's training set so all the TOEFLers flunk their TOEs.

@Cerberus Now come the days of the King.

I just forgot to put the temporal adverb in front to justify the inversion.

jlliagre

01:13

@tchrist S'est couché le Soleil à 9:48 ici.

tchrist

> Now sets the sun at 8:17pm here.

@jlliagre Yes, it feels better to move the subject out further in Romance. Not sure why.

And I'd just been dipping my oar in those seas, so perhaps my dipstick got soggy.

> Se pone el sol....

You just would never put the sun at the front of that.

@jlliagre It's easy for us to forget how different our respective latitudes truly are. Me I'm at exactly 40°. I think that's like 5 in metric.

Cerberus

@tchrist Right, that would have merely made me nod rather than widen mine eyes.

jlliagre

@tchrist In Spanish but my sentence would surprise native speakers. Il s'est couché le Soleil à 9h48 ici would be less unusual.

tchrist

@Cerberus Maybe I was still thinking in the wrong language and doing word-for-word translation back to English and didn't know it. :)

Cerberus

Of course.

tchrist

01:20

@jlliagre Oh that's interesting. That's almost an il-explétif, isn't it? Somewhat reminds me of having to add a dummy object pronoun in Spanish when the object comes before the subject. Or verb, or something like that.

Cerberus

I believe dummy constituents are relatively common in French.

jlliagre

@tchrist Spanish verbs do not require a pronoun subject but French require them.

tchrist

@jlliagre Well, but you shouldn't need one under inversion.

But I saw no infix -t- either.

@Cerberus They are.

It is raining here again. I blame that on the French.

jlliagre

No pain, no rain.

tchrist

Mandatory subject pronouns in Romance are nearly unique to French. Did the Germanic invaders do that to you?

is quick to blame the Hun

> Most Romance languages are null subject languages. The subject pronouns are used only for emphasis and take the stress, and as a result are not clitics. In French, however (as in Friulian and in some Gallo-Italian languages of northern Italy), verbal agreement marking has degraded to the point that subject pronouns have become mandatory, and have turned into clitics.

> These forms cannot be stressed, so for emphasis the disjunctive pronouns must be used in combination with the clitic subject forms. Friulian and the Gallo-Italian languages have actually gone further than this and merged the subject pronouns onto the verb as a new type of verb agreement marking, which must be present even when there is a subject noun phrase. (Some non-standard varieties of French treat disjunctive pronouns as arguments and clitic pronouns as agreement markers.[10])

AHAH!

That's why French uses disjunctives so much more often than most of the rest of us.

You cliticised your subject pronouns. Just wait till the feminists hear about this one!

(-ise cause more of an incision than an ization :)

Okay I give up. I need to go shut the doors and windows and put on socks and probably shoes. It's 55 degrees outside and little more than that inside.

Yeah 59 inside. I'm not wearing warm enough clothes for that.

@jlliagre So maybe not the Franks' fault, just that "verbal agreement marking has degraded" so far that now you can't tell which person the verb is just by hearing it in many cases.

Romance linguistics

Romance linguistics is the study of linguistics of Romance languages. == Basic features == Romance languages have a number of shared features across all languages: Romance languages are moderately inflecting, i.e. there is a moderately complex system of affixes (primarily suffixes) that are attached to word roots to convey grammatical information such as number, gender, person, tense, etc. Verbs have much more inflection than nouns. The amount of synthesis is significantly more than English, but less than Classical Latin and much less than the oldest Indo-European languages (e.g. Ancient Greek...

Was from there.

jlliagre

01:39

@tchrist 17° outside and 20° inside. No need for warm clothing here.

tchrist

It's the bare feet by the open back door with the rainy cold wind breezing through my toes that got to me.

I am absolutely positive that "Romance linguistics" was called "Romance philology" when I was in grad school. I know because I remember reading a journal by that name then.

YES: jstor.org/journal/romancephilology

> En définissant la philologie dans son sens le plus large, Romance
Philology couvre un champ vaste et profond qui inclut le latin
tardif, la littérature médiévale des langues romanes, la linguistique
générale et historique et la critique textuelle. Ces dernières
années, l’accent a été mis sur le développement des langues romanes
sur le continent américain. Deux numéros sont publiés chaque année,
à l’automne et au printemps. Dans le demi-siècle qui a suivi sa
fondation, Romance Philology a acquis une réputation internationale

jlliagre

@tchrist Yes. With most verbs, only the second person plural is different since the first person plural is unused orally.

tchrist

@jlliagre Cortulons

jlliagre

That was literary :-)

tchrist

heh

jlliagre

01:47

On cortule would be the usual form.

tchrist

I still have the urge to plant the germ of this disorder in the Germanic invaders, but that's purely reflexive on my part.

jlliagre

Germany imposed its time zone on France the last time it invaded us and we kept it.

tchrist

It's even worse in Spain.

Only Portugal said NFW.

It's a very Chinese thing. Everybody gets the same timezone in our empire.

jlliagre

Well, it doesn't bother me. On the opposite, I like to have late sunsets.

tchrist

Without moving to Iceland, no less.

@jlliagre I think we'd say on the contrary not on the opposite for au contraire. At least I would. I cannot speak for the Britons.

Or to the contrary.

Tired. Brains are scrambling.

Soon sets the sun, and thus with it, me.

jlliagre

01:59

Okay, I'll try to remember "contrary" instead of "opposite". In French, I would have say au contraire or à l'inverse but not à l'opposé in that sentence. I don't know why I used it in English. There is a plan to end DST in Europe and there was polls asking if we wanted to use the winter or the summer time, and I voted for us to stay in DST forever.

Robusto

@jlliagre I thought people who live in Paris were called Parisites.

jlliagre

in Paras maybe.

Robusto

Just joshin' ya.

Paramilitary soldiers are paras.

jlliagre

No, paras are parachutistes.

Robusto

Hmm, but stage actors who jump from airplanes are called paratroupers.

jlliagre

02:04

Fallschirmliagre

Robusto

If someone tricks you into going on the Hamlet diet, you're likely to say "I have of late, but wherefore I know not, lost all my girth."

@jlliagre They don't go into Germany until the third act.

jlliagre

On the opposite, there is New-Zealand.

@Robusto I can't make any sense of that sentence. I'm at a loss.

Cerberus

02:31

@CowperKettle Hmm how do we feel about this petition?

And the strike?

alphabet

@jlliagre Au contraire itself is reasonably common in English, though you need to italicize it. We probably don't pronounce it the French way, though.

Wiktionary defines it as: "(usually humorous, emphatic) on the contrary"

It's "humorous" because it sounds very French and thus very fancy.

jlliagre

@alphabet Like this?

alphabet

@jlliagre That's the British English version, but basically yes.

jlliagre

So that's a reasonable attempt to sound French with English phonemes.

alphabet

(At least, I assume that's not the French version, right? Or is it?)

jlliagre

02:39

You assume right.

alphabet

@jlliagre Yeah, it's the sort of mock French we use in loanwords.

It does get italicized, though, since it's still seen as somewhat foreign. "Croissant" doesn't get italicized, since we now treat it as just an ordinary English word.

jlliagre

Here is a French version.

alphabet

@jlliagre I don't think any Americans would understand it if you pronounced it the French way.

But most educated Americans do know the Americanized version (I think).

jlliagre

Our R are so different...

alphabet

From USA Today:

> only 23% of adults aged 18+ meet the recommended guidelines for both aerobic and muscle-strengthening activity. The biggest hurdle for most people: Not having enough time. Au contraire, says a 2019 study from the CDC and Rand. Surveying more than 30,000 participants, the study found that Americans have an average of more than five hours of free time per day.

It's apparently common enough for major newspapers.

CowperKettle

02:53

@Cerberus shrug

I don't know

alphabet

@CowperKettle Honestly? I think people won't think the mods are on strike. They'll just think that the mods are being incompetent. A real strike would be (say) to close all new questions immediately with a close reason saying "we are on strike."

You'd need all of the moderators for a given SE to agree on it, and they'd need to coordinate it on a non-SE platform.

The other alternative is civil disobedience: start using AI checkers anyway, and see whether they actually try to ban you.

jlliagre

Moderatoren aller Länder, vereinigt euch!

Cerberus

@alphabet That is not a strike but sabotage, though.

@alphabet This is how I have always moderated.

alphabet

Better yet: automate the use of AI detectors on new questions, but when you detect an AI, ban the account for some other reason.

Cerberus

Yes.

I agree.

However, I think the strike serves a purpose of its own.

alphabet

03:07

@Cerberus How does a strike usually work? Answer: you form a picket line to stop people from accessing a business, while forcing that business's operations to grind to a hault.

Cerberus

Make SE realise that they cannot do such things unpunished.

alphabet

@Cerberus Eh. Did that work last time, with the Monica incident?

Cerberus

@alphabet But do you discourage people from going in, or do you actually block them physically?

@alphabet I don't recall there being a major strike on SO then?

alphabet

@Cerberus Regardless of terminology, closing questions would seem to me to be a more effective strategy.

@Cerberus Yeah, but people were way more angry about Monica than they are about AIs.

Cerberus

@alphabet I don't know: do we really want to give SE grounds for demoderating lots of people?

@alphabet True, but, if there was no strike, then SE didn't feel that their main possession, SO, was under threat?

alphabet

03:13

@Cerberus If all of a site's mods participate, it would be difficult to stop.

@Cerberus Tons of people resigned (or claimed to be resigning)

Cerberus

Quite.

But SO has a lot of moderators.

@alphabet Yes, but only a smallish fraction of all moderators on SO.

alphabet

Yeah, I mean just on (say) ELU, or any of the other exchanges.

Cerberus

I think SE cares mainly about SO.

Less so about other sites.

alphabet

Fair enough.

Cerberus

I don't know what percentage of SO moderators would be required for the effect to be great enough.

alphabet

03:17

The other alternative is to try to move en masse from SO to something federated.

Cerberus

And SE could send out 100 e-mails to the top SO users who aren't moderators, offering them moderatorship, if they wanted to break a strike or any other kind of protest. So I'm not sure what could work anyway.

@alphabet Codidact?

It was founded in protest of SE.

alphabet

@Cerberus Idk. Hypothetically you could automatically migrate existing users and karma, then try to redirect all new users.

Cerberus

SE will try to shut that down.

tchrist

@Cerberus Did you read through the log of the TL meeting with Philippe about all this?

Cerberus

@tchrist Oh, no, I haven't looked at anything except the occasional Meta question/post.

tchrist

03:27

Then you should. Let me get you the link.

Robusto

@jlliagre That's a paraphrase of a quote from Hamlet, except I substituted girth for mirth. So if you went on that diet without realizing it, you would not know where those results came from.

Cerberus

@tchrist Do I really have to?

tchrist

@Cerberus here

Cerberus

I believe the comments saying that SE misrepresents the situation.

@tchrist Is there much of importance in that log that isn't in the comments to the "don't moderate AI" Meta post?

tchrist

@Cerberus You can't infer anything from the public account. It just doesn't have enough reality to it.

@Cerberus I have no idea how much you have read, but if you don't read what we were told privately, then you are just listening to rumors.

He was not unreasonable. I'm still not satisfied, but at least now we may understand the triggers here.

Cerberus

03:34

It's 5.33 AM...

alphabet

Ideally it'd be something self-hosted. I suspect it might not even be particularly expensive to operate; ELU is comparatively small-scale.

tchrist

And nothing has yet changed. But little time has passed. That was Thursday at 5pm UTC I believe. There will be more information by this Tuesday, I believe we were told.

@Cerberus Then please go to sleep now.

Cerberus

I will probably sleep in half an hour or so.

I'm still kind of processing the alcohol I drank at the party.

tchrist

I can't talk about anything that was said there here, of course. He was approachable, is all I can say.

Cerberus

That is something.

tchrist

03:36

And contrite.

I think they're mostly driving in the dark here.

There's data we don't have, though.

We'd like that data.

Things have been promised us. You'll have to read it when you're rested. Not now.

@Cerberus You didn't read the original post on the private Moderator Team that started all this?

Again, there is nothing about this that needs processing at this time in your wake–sleep cycle.

But you should read the non-public stuff, especially the TL log with Philippe most of all.

The original post came up as an orange diamond alert on your site.

I'm off to bed now. Good night.

CowperKettle

03:52

Sleep tight!

CowperKettle

04:30

Autistic Reporter, Michael Falk, Enchanted By Prison's Rigid Routine

►

Cerberus

04:54

@tchrist Thanks for the link!

@tchrist I remember seeing the diamond, but maybe I just felt logging into the Team site was too much trouble, trying to remember what credentials to use, then copying them by hand, etc.

I've now also read lots of discussion from the lounge.

Will read the Team post.

CowperKettle

06:40

State TV says Ukraine's counter-offensive started in Russia

►

Mrs. Skabeyeva would win hands-down any casting for a female character in some second-rate Sci-Fi Third Reich revival comedy

> "One option that comes to one's mind, I repeat, is the idea of just scorching every living thing in Kharkiv Oblast in retaliation and as a deterrent"

M.A.R.

07:16

@CowperKettle "as a deterrent" does she realize she's not talking about mosquitos?

Xanne

07:36

Wordle 715 4/6

🟨⬜⬜⬜🟨
⬜⬜⬜⬜🟩
🟨⬜🟩⬜⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

CowperKettle

09:30

@M.A.R. She used the idiom which is used for people :)

Чтоб неповадно было

She generally couches her phrases in such a tone as if musing aloud, and not directly calling for somesuch bad thing.

She is careful

I've seen two black people today.

A rarity

jlliagre

@Robusto Ah, okay, thanks. I'm clearly not on a Hamlet diet.

CowperKettle

10:01

I first saw a black man when I was 17 yo.

Before that, they existed only in books and movies.

CowperKettle

12:04

> In study particpants, LDL levels dropped 10% and total cholesterol declined 7% for people following a plant-based diet when compared with those who eat both meat and plants, the study found. edition.cnn.com/2023/05/24/health/…

We're having a heavy rain.

Vikas

Good

CowperKettle

It's a bliss. The temp will crawl back from +32°C to +25°C in the next half hour.

Vikas

Here it can rain whenever it wants LOL

CowperKettle

12:26

We had the driest month of May on record this year.

> "It's dry, all right," said young O'Neil,
With which astute remark
He squatted down upon his heel
And chewed a piece of bark.

> "If rain don't come this month," said Dan,
And cleared his throat to speak -
"We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
"If rain don't come this week."

> A heavy silence seemed to steal
On all at this remark;
And each man squatted on his heel,
And chewed a piece of bark.

> "Wife Can't Believe Husband Forgot Anniversary of Day They Both Agreed to Stop Celebrating Anniversaries"

LOL

> "It's just ridiculous," exclaimed Mrs. Smith, 34, in an exclusive interview with The Wibble. "We agreed not to make a big deal out of our relationship milestones, and now he can't even remember the day we made that agreement. I just don't know what to do with him."

> In the meantime, let's all raise a glass to the Smiths and their wonderfully ironic situation. Here's to many more years of forgetting to celebrate!

Vikas

Make agreement great again!

CowperKettle

wibble.fbmac.net/…

The headline was generated by one guy using ChatGPT, and the story was generated by another guy, who pasted the headline into an AI story generator.

> Headline: "NASA Discovers Evidence of Procrastination on Mars"

First Sentence: NASA scientists were flabbergasted this week when the Mars rover, Opportunity 3.0, sent back data indicating the presence of several unmade beds and half-finished Sudoku puzzles.

> Headline: "Diet Guru Gains 30 Pounds for 'Authenticity' in Weight-Loss Journey"

First Sentence: In a shocking twist of events, popular diet guru Rachel Donovan publicly announced that she intentionally gained 30 pounds just to re-experience and share the authentic struggle of weight loss with her followers.

>
Headline: "World Peace Achieved After Massive Misunderstanding Over Game of Telephone"

Paragraph: In an incredible turn of events, world peace was accidentally achieved today following a massive misunderstanding during a global game of Telephone. Leaders around the world are now urging citizens to "keep pretending it was intentional."

Robusto

12:50

#Worldle #499 1/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
⭐⭐🪙
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

🌎 Jun 4, 2023 🌍
🔥 23 | Avg. Guesses: 4.51
🟧🟥🟩 = 3

globle-game.com
#globle

CowperKettle

When I open Worldle, my Chrome somewhy tries to save a file called "robots.txt"

Robusto

Wordle 715 5/6

🟨⬛⬛🟨⬛
🟨🟨⬛⬛⬛
⬛🟩🟩🟩🟩
⬛⬛⬛🟨🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

@CowperKettle Maybe trying to give you a virus?

Vikas

@CowperKettle Use Microsoft Edge. It's the best browser in the world with Bing as default search engine. I use it.

CowperKettle

#Worldle #499 3/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨↖️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨↖️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
🪙
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

@Vikas Okay

@Robusto In a txt file? :)

This country has a capital which I never heard the name of.

Vikas

@CowperKettle I am joking.

But I use it.

#Worldle #499 1/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
⭐⭐
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

3 mins ago, by CowperKettle

This country has a capital which I never heard the name of.

Robusto

13:08

@CowperKettle Who knows?

@CowperKettle That's because they changed it from the old familiar colonial one.

Daily Quordle 496
5️⃣8️⃣
7️⃣9️⃣
m-w.com/games/quordle

tchrist

14:00

“blimp airline’s captain’s hat”

And you wonder why fonts come with triple-f ligatures.

Those are in Pfeffer Simpelgotisch and in Pfeffer Mediæval, respectively.

Called fffligature internally.

Notice he also has one for triple-l.

> The Dutch rules are experimental. Setting ſ and s in Dutch is as complicated as it is in German, and I lack the linguistic knowledge necessary to implement this. Thus I’ve employed the most abstract and basic German rules for Dutch as well, hoping they’ll be of some use there, too.

> Implementing the rules for English, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish, French, Spanish, Italian and Latin was much easier, as they only follow graphical aspects. The setting of ſ and s strictly depends on certain letter combinations, regardless of their meaning. Decisive for me was the description on Wikipedia.

> I’ve used the feature “clig” (contextual ligatures) to store the rules for the correct setting of ſ and s. Ten European languages are supported. The language properties assigned to a text (e. g. in a Word or html document) determine which body of rules be applied. According to German rules, s is set at each syllable’s end, subject to some exceptions. In any other case ſ is set. While this rule sounds simple, it’s quite complicated to teach a machine, what a syllable is!

Very few abstract and universal policies were to be found, and so the German rule body couldn’t be prevented from dwind…

Thanks, Germany, for making something that's so hard to implement in software.

It doesn't just depend on letter combinations. It depends on syllabication in German, and apparently in Dutch.

All that is from here.

3

A: Why does "s" have different spelling?

The "s" at the start of "se" and the one at the start of "steorra" are two variant handwritten forms of the same letter. I don't think the use of one vs. the other is connected to any difference in meaning. It might be affected by the following letter: apparently the taller version of s seen in ...

Is what got me started down this winding road.

Most people are unaware that there's not just a round s and a long s, but also a low s, in insular manuscripts.

 ȝ  021D        LATIN SMALL LETTER YOGH
        * Middle English, Scots
        x (latin small letter ezh - 0292)
        x (latin small letter insular g - 1D79)
 ᫌ  1ACC        COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER INSULAR G
 ᫍ  1ACD        COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER INSULAR R
 ᫎ  1ACE        COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER INSULAR T
 ᵹ  1D79        LATIN SMALL LETTER INSULAR G
        * older Irish phonetic notation
        * uppercase is A77D
        x (latin small letter g - 0067)
        x (latin small letter yogh - 021D)

SO many WTF (What-The-Font) glyph failures there.

s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t

14:20

@tchrist Why is the business poor with communication. Why couldn't they say we're against false content and content which doesn't have attribution (especially because of the CC licence), but we're afraid moderating AI generated content amplifies biases. I don't understand the business.

Biases is a valid concern.

Content which doesn't abide by the CC licence terms is not "poor" content, it's infringing content. Meh, anyways.

tchrist

@s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t Hindsight is 2020, but perhaps it is because the stupidities and fears and knowledge gaps of each person involved does not cancel out in the aggregate of all those people, but rather reinforces itself.

s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t

Psychology then. Your statement is subtle.

tchrist

Each person taken one at a time is reasonable but fallible, as are we all. But the organizational structure somehow amplifies those fallibilities.

s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t

The way to tone these down is the rely on objective data, like the false positives, and biases % in AI-moderated stuff. They needed to make a better case. Otherwise it feels they support AI content but won't say it upfront and open the floodgates accordingly.

tchrist

Vague conjectures and facile generalizations passed along like a game of Chinese Whispers / Telephone always suffer iterative transformations at each step of the chain, yielding a result that no bears no relation to the originals, however nebulous they may have been.

@s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t We're doing what we think we can in that regard. But even the least shred of evidence that these efforts lie on the path to producing any meaningful positive change remains elusively figmentational at this point.

It is certainly possible to build a reliable system out of unreliable components, but it is tricky. And the measures needed differ between those needed in formal communication protocols and those needed in human organizations.

While the perception of an imminent existential threat does concentrate the mind, this may not always produce a marvellously effective action. Fear clouds the mind.

M.A.R.

14:42

@s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t because that's the excuse. They don't care about biases, non-native speakers that can't write a decent answer on SO can't sue them either.

s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t

They could have had a standardized procedure for moderating suspected AI generated content instead of denying it and relying on the "poor" content rationale. It all feels amateurish to me. Yes, fear, which is why it's better to reframe these as concerns.

And balance them.

tchrist

> But the world is changing again. Outside nigh on a thousand years have passed since the Lords of the West sent their power against Angband; and those days are forgotten, or wrapped in dim legend among Men of Middle-earth. They are troubled again, and fear haunts them.

@s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t To more than thee alone does it amateurish seem.

Time will tell.

CowperKettle

14:56

> I often go to fancy dress parties dressed as a shark..
Quite honestly, the novelty is wearing a little fin

s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t

It may be perilous to enable AI content on the network. I speculate the content spewed by an AI which is based on CC licensed content which contains no attribution is no longer licensed.

tchrist

You'd have to count up the angels dancing on the pinhead first.

What I mean is that this presumption of indeterminability absent an overt, unforced confession of guilt means that one could never know whether what you've said has or has not occurred.

s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t

If the licensor recognizes part of their content and makes a statement accordingly, then action would be required within 30 days. Who knows how this plays. CC is not about stringent enforcement. I don't know for sure how it plays out in the real world.

Most likely someone on Law knows. Meh.

tchrist

Vita brevis.

s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t

Which is why I'd rather go drink some latte in the sun.

Cheers!

CowperKettle

15:16

@s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t Happy aprication!

Mitch

@CowperKettle that's the big difference between you and those two black people, they've only seen one black person today

tchrist

When Bach Invented Swing 170 YEARS EARLY!

►

CowperKettle

@Mitch Later I saw a whole group, probably students, not far from my home

Mitch

15:53

@M.A.R. ok got it. Makes sense now with the CEO blog post

tchrist

16:16

Can anyone else tell the difference between delusions and lies here?

-1

A: Why does "s" have different forms?

English is a Germanic language, and that came into English from its German roots and was what was called a long s. Nowadays, you only find the long s when it is combined with the short s, or just s, in German to form the eszett or scharfes s (ẞ), the long s you mention forming the back and beginn...

Anybody who knows anything about the history of the Latin alphabet knows he's wrong in his claim that the different glyph forms arose to distinguish different pronunciations. You don't have to be a handwriting or palaeography expert to know that he's full of shit.

Handwriting is not like the International Phonetic Alphabet.

tchrist

16:32

Script ℊ never meant a differently pronounced g.
Script ℯ never meant a differently pronounced e.
insular ꞃ never meant a differently pronounced r.
Insular ꞅ never meant a differently pronounced s.
Insular ꝼ never meant a differently pronounced f.
Blackletter ꬲ never meant a differently pronounced e.

etc.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…