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00:27
@Cerberus Thank you.
@Mitch Missing it, and in a way not missing it at all.
@jlliagre “Reckless and stupid idiots from vulnerable neighborhoods” seems to be a type of coded communication of some non-obvious variety.
Unless perhaps they're living below sea level and therefore vulnerable to the rising tides, or in an area prone to earthquakes, wildfires, or other natural disaster.
"fascism A form of government in which a dictator rules, opposition is suppressed, the economy is centrally controlled, and extreme nationalistic policies are pursued." This can be applied to any third-level appointee with a modicum of power who uses that power to bully others in the name of some murky governing abstraction.
"The economy is centrally controlled" is the main thing that's missing.
> The goal of the first phase of this study is to identify "vulnerable", or stressed, neighborhoods within our region by compiling a Neighborhood Vulnerability Index.

Vulnerability in this context refers to the differing ability of members of particular socio-demographic groups to withstand threats to their livelihoods, security, and social, economic, and political networks. 1 Measures of social vulnerability attempt to integrate a set of characteristics of people and places that make them especially likely to be harmed by shocks such as natural disasters or development and rising housing
@forest From fascism?
@tchrist From what is often referred to as fascism today (e.g. generic far-right ideologies).
00:34
Hm.
A planned economy is a type of economic system where investment, production and the allocation of capital goods takes place according to economy-wide economic plans and production plans. A planned economy may use centralized, decentralized, participatory or Soviet-type forms of economic planning. The level of centralization or decentralization in decision-making and participation depends on the specific type of planning mechanism employed.Socialist states based on the Soviet model have used central planning, although a minority such as the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia have adopted...
I'm thinking that the Stalinist system was normally considered far-left, but maybe it's just far.
It's one aspect of it (it's necessary but not sufficient).
One doesn't normally think of communist revolutionaries as being of the far right.
Heh, no they usually aren't. :P
Sorry, I'm really bad with words.
@tchrist It basically means people from poor neighbourhoods, often of somewhat recent immigrant descent.
00:37
@tchrist Nah I just explained it poorly.
Below sea level, you bet!
That is, without dikes, they would be flooded on a regular basis.
@Robusto Yeah, that would seem rather generic.
> The Neighborhood Vulnerability Index was developed by calculating a composite score of these five factors that signal vulnerability in a community:

1. Percent of residents that identify as anything other than “non-Hispanic white alone”.
2. Percent of households who rent, rather than own, their homes.
3. Percent of residents aged 25 and over who lack a four-year bachelor’s degree or higher.
4. Percent of households with incomes below 80% of Area Median Income (as determined by HUD).
5. Share of children that live in households below the official poverty line.
I would say Fascism revolves around the fasces, i.e. the glorification of power and violence.
@Cerberus That's where the term comes from but it is not sufficient for something to be considered fascist. For example, various communist dictatorships "glorified" power and violence, but were not fascist.
@tchrist Yes, we do not say quartier vulnerable in French for what is described here but quartier sensible. Sensible is a faux-ami here, closer to "sensitive".
00:39
@Cerberus I think of fasces as holding absolute power.
@tchrist The kind of vulnerability in question is that to criminal gangs.
@jlliagre I do think sensible always means that in all Romance, just as it originally did in English.
@forest Well, I may agree with you that it isn't sufficient, but I do feel that the glorification of power and violence was not the central ideology of those communist states.
@tchrist That can be an important aspect, yes.
Although a communist régime might also hold absolute power.
Or Louis XIV.
The consul holding fasces that month certainly had best not glorify power and violence. :)
@Cerberus Sure, and communism does not require violence or totalitarianism.
00:42
Well, the Roman republic was not fascist, despite its fasces.
I would say fascism tends towards absolute power and totalitarianisn: those kind of follow from the glorification of power.
We often use "urban" as code for "black" or "poor" or "deteriorated" or "crime-ridden" or "ugly". Or for all those things.
Just as it tends towards a single ruler.
@Cerberus Which is why Mussolini's embrace of the symbolism was historically abhorrent.
@Robusto About the article: I'm not sure I agree with the definition of fascism, but I think I do agree with its central thought and warning.
@tchrist I suppose so.
Although, on the other hands, the Romans were hardly an enlightened state...
Violence and corruption and abuse of power were common enough.
In the provinces, the governor held fasces, because there it was they whose word was law.
Sorry, the proconsul. You know what I mean.
00:45
He did not have lictores?
Not every province had a proconsul.
That's true.
But, yeah, those would hold imperium and therefore be entitled lictores.
I was about to say that.
Holding fasces meant holding imperium which meant the full power of the state.
Or of command.
Indeed.
Perhaps they were always at least praetors anyway.
Meanwhile:
He's only lacking one head unlike most people.
> A proconsul was endowed with full consular authority outside the city of Rome.[3] Cicero notes that this did not include the right to consult auguries: "Our ancestors would not undertake any military enterprise without consulting the auspices; but now, for many years, our wars have been conducted by pro-consuls and propraetors, who do not have the right to take auspices."[18]
Yes, a propraetor could be in charge of a province.
00:49
Right, a proconsul stands in for a consul, and had probably held a very high office at Rome before.
Usually consul. Not quite always, but very often.
@tchrist There were also provinced ruled in different ways, I believe, or was that only under the Empire?
It was cushy because you retired from your one-year job to a five-hear job.
@Cerberus No, there were the two types of provinces.
There were also imperial provinces under the Empire.
They could be senatorial or imperial.
00:51
I got both the shots (updated Covid and flu) today—decided on one arm. I have friends coming for dinner tomorrow, so I have apparently assumed I will be fine.
It was a matter of how "civilized" they were.
@Xanne How do you feel thus far?
@tchrist Didn't it also have to do with who conquered them and when?
You needed a different power structure in a province subject to unrest to the point of dissolution of Roman authority.
I thought an imperial province did not have a proconsul?
> Met de instelling van het principaat, waarbij de princeps Gaius Iulius Caesar Augustus het imperium maius had over vele provinciae, werden de propraetores in deze provinciae vervangen door een legatus Augusti pro praetore. In de senatoriale provinciae bleef het ambt van propraetores wel bewaard.
> Under Augustus, Roman provinces were classified as either public or imperial, depending on whether power was exercised by the Senate or the emperor.
00:54
So the propraetores were replaced with legati Augusti pro praetore(/praetoribus?).
@Cerberus It depended.
@Cerberus Right, see here for what was what, at least in the Empire.
> The terms of provincial governors often had to be extended for multiple years (prorogatio), and on occasion, the Senate awarded imperium even to private citizens (privati), most notably Pompey the Great.[8][9] Prorogation undermined the republican constitutional principle of annually-elected magistracies and the amassing of disproportionate wealth and military power by a few men through their provincial commands was a major factor in the transition from a republic to an imperial autocracy.
I'd have to check which years Pompey held which offices, as that sounds funny.
Right, Egypt was special.
And I bet Rome herself, too.
But there were those several years when he seemed to be the only consul and there weren't new elections.
Well, Rome was no province. :)
A general was a private citizen with zero power once he stepped within the whatchamallit line.
Ask me again when I'm not booster brained.
@Cerberus Actually my upper arm is a little sore, six hours after the event.
That's why some of the proconsuls fiddled with the rules. Caesar in particular. You were supposed to stand within Rome when you were standing for election as consul, which required surrendering imperium you held as general/proconsul. But that meant he could be arrested. He wasn't keen on that.
01:01
@Xanne OK I hope it won't get worse.
> In late Antiquity, the office of praefectus urbi gained in effective power, as the imperial court was removed from the city, meaning that the prefects were no longer under the emperor's direct supervision. The office was usually held by leading members of Italy's senatorial aristocracy, who remained largely pagan even after Emperor Constantine's conversion to Christianity. Over the following thirty years, Christian holders were few.[7] In such a capacity, Quintus Aurelius Symmachus played a prominent role in the controversy over the Altar of Victory in the late 4th century.
I remember Symmachus and his battle with Ambrosius.
The Pomerium. I need to go to sleep.
Christianity won, alas.
Sleep well.
I hope you'll feel better tomorrow.
I don't feel bad. I just feel exhausted and brain-dead.
I felt that way too, with a slight fever.
I don't feel sick. Just overtaxed.
Yes, have that.
The pomerium or pomoerium was a religious boundary around the city of Rome and cities controlled by Rome. In legal terms, Rome existed only within its pomerium; everything beyond it was simply territory (ager) belonging to Rome. == Name == The term pōmērium is a classical contraction of the Latin phrase post moerium, literally "behind/beyond the wall". The Roman historian Livy writes in his Ab Urbe Condita that, although the etymology implies a meaning referring to a single side of the wall, the pomerium was originally an area of ground on both sides of city walls. He states that it was an Etruscan...
It didn't have anything to do with apples. :)
> The magistrates who held imperium did not have full power inside the pomerium. They could have a citizen beaten, but not sentenced to death. This was symbolised by removing the axes from the fasces carried by the magistrate's lictors.[7] Only a dictator's lictors could carry fasces containing axes inside the pomerium.
01:08
Right, there is a reason why Mussolini, or who was first, chose that symbol.
Cicero was exiled, for a while, because he had the Catilinarian conspirators executed without trial. I'm vague on what the exact problem was with that legally. I had thought he was Dictator then, but maybe he was just Consul and had a go-ahead to use force via a senatus consultum ultimum decree by the Senate.
I don't remember his being dictator, but I could be wrong.
@Cerberus Yeah, I was confusing that office with the special force decree he got the Senate to approve.
Hmm I don't remember.
> Clodius used the triumvirate's backing to push through legislation that benefited them all. He introduced several laws (the leges Clodiae) that made him very popular with the people, strengthening his power base, then he turned on Cicero by threatening exile to anyone who executed a Roman citizen without a trial. Cicero, having executed members of the Catiline conspiracy four years previously without formal trial, was clearly the intended target.
> Cicero argued that the senatus consultum ultimum indemnified him from punishment, and he attempted to gain the support of the senators and consuls, especially of Pompey.[73]

Cicero grew out his hair, dressed in mourning and toured the streets. Clodius' gangs dogged him, hurling abuse, stones and even excrement. Hortensius, trying to rally to his old rival's support, was almost lynched. The Senate and the consuls were cowed. Caesar, who was still encamped near Rome, was apologetic but said he could do nothing when Cicero brought himself to grovel in the proconsul's tent. Everyone seemed t
Clodius of course was a total jerk. You see the Republic going to pieces in all this.
The powerful did whatever they would no matter the law, and there were continuous waves of political payback back and forth.
01:18
> If you buy a bigger bed you have more bed room, but less bedroom
@tchrist It sounds like they were following the 'rule of law'
except with very petty laws
@Mitch They made new superseding laws every time they got into power, one side against the other.
like little kids playing the game of nomic
I think it was was Sulla who first began the lethal purges of the other side while he was Dictator. Something like that. And it was all downhill after that, continuous repercussions and such. It was the asshole Marc Antony who had Octavian execute Cicero. Really awful.
Yeah, Clodius was terrible.
Then again, so was Milo, etc.
01:21
Yes.
Yeah, Sulla was pretty bad in that respect.
The beginning of the end of the republic.
Could it be that we have a mostly positive view of Cicero because he was a skilled orator and left his own writings (while the others did not)?
Whereas the purge that swept up Cicero was at the very end of the end of the Republic.
Well, we have writings by others about Cicero.
his friends?
01:23
We have lots and lots of writings about him.
Cicero was not free from corruption.
But he was a homo novus.
No aristocrat like Caesar or Sulla or Pompey or Marius or 'Clodius'.
So I think he never had a power base. And/or he truly believed in the republic.
I'm pretty sure he was pro-republic/anti-empire
Yeah.
> Sulla's military coup was ironically enabled by Marius' military reforms, that bound the army's loyalty with the general rather than to the republic, and permanently destabilized the Roman power structure.
Cato Minor was also a anti-populist, or at least anti-populares, conservative who put a lot of people down as mad dogs are put down.
@Cerberus The legion to the general.
Needed to be to Rome.
@tchrist Yes, violence was hardly new to Rome.
His whole "mos maiorum" spiel was so "moral majority" of the religious right from last century.
@Cerberus Clodius renamed himself so he could be tribune of the plebs because they couldn't spell Claudius. :)
(No, I know the dumb adoption scam and all that. It just sounded funny.)
He did want to appeal to the masses!
The Roman Republic took a long time to fall apart, all those civil wars etc. These days republics fall far more quickly than Rome's did. But then, they all have far less history. I cannot see it taking more than a full century for the American republic to fall. When it does, it will fall quickly, not petering out for 150 years.
The USA will first turn into an empire.
Then an AI will assume command.
I don't know, I think America has a strong civil society, which Rome lacked.
01:38
This AI will allow the US Empire to last a bit longer, maybe a couple thousand years.
Then the Butlerian Jihad will take place.
So you're saying the Butler will have done it? :)
"Darwin among the Machines" is an article published in The Press newspaper on 13 June 1863 in Christchurch, New Zealand, which references the work of Charles Darwin in the title. Written by Samuel Butler but signed Cellarius (q.v.), the article raised the possibility that machines were a kind of "mechanical life" undergoing constant evolution, and that eventually machines might supplant humans as the dominant species: We refer to the question: What sort of creature man’s next successor in the supremacy of the earth is likely to be. We have often heard this debated; but it appears to us that we...
@tchrist When I first read Dune in 1992, I did not even know that it was named after Butler
I did not know who he was
Because it was in Russian translation
I always thought it was about some butler. :)
Samuel Butler (4 December 1835 – 18 June 1902) was an English novelist and critic, best known for the satirical utopian novel Erewhon (1872) and the semi-autobiographical novel Ernest Pontifex or The Way of All Flesh, published posthumously in 1903 in an altered version titled The Way of All Flesh, and published in 1964 as he wrote it. Both novels have remained in print since their initial publication. In other studies he examined Christian orthodoxy, evolutionary thought, and Italian art, and made prose translations of the Iliad and Odyssey that are still consulted. == Early life == Butler was...
@Cerberus There is a small group of gun owners who tend to the populist that could easily sway things.
01:42
In the Russian translation, it was even transcripted wrongly, as Bootlerian (Бутлерианский, not Батлерианский)
I read Dune in the 70s. I thought it was a big long book then.
@CowperKettle Same here.
I'd have had to look it up again even now...
And the military, who could manage such local gun groups, have a tendency towards conservative politics. So they may 'let' the gun groups do bad things.
@Mitch The gunners aren't soldiers.
@Mitch Well, I think they do not stand a chance against the police, let alone the army.
@Mitch I find that unlikely.
01:44
No, the fake militias have no chance whatsoever against the actual army.
But they have infiltrated them, a bit.
@Cerberus My point was that the police and military are most likely very ... uh ... friendly to these gun groups.
@tchrist Probably a bit in the lower ranks.
Police and mlitary groups tend to follow the rule of law, but I feel like they may let some things slide with the gun groups.
@Mitch Sorry, but I doubt that.
@tchrist That's what I'm alluding to. Infiltrating mentally if not actually.
@Cerberus It could just be fear talking
01:46
@Mitch Regular army is very different from the home guard.
Right-wing populists always have relatively high sympathy among the lower ranks of police and army.
There are some (very flimsy) examples though. The Kenosha shooter of rioters (the underage guy) was allowed to continue by local police.
But actually letting violence pass, against direct orders: I think, in a stable state, that only happens under extreme circumstances.
But the police are being militarized, so I don't know what's going to happen. You do NOT want the army being the police, or vice versa, or whatever this is.
@Cerberus OK. I've always wondered that.
01:48
@Mitch I think "allowed to continue" is ambiguous, though.
@Mitch It is the same here.
@Cerberus "... (very flimsy)...."
The missions of the police and of the army are nothing whatsoever like each other.
I prebutted you with weasel words.
Or need not to be.
My father was a criminal lawyer, who mostly dealt with smallish criminals.
Those were mostly of immigrant descent.
Which is one reason why he became more right-wing.
And that happens with the police as well.
01:49
@Mitch He was a fib kid.
Not from Kenosha.
Even apart from the natural tendency towards the right found in authoritarian organisations with lots of men, like army and police.
@tchrist Oh? I knew he was not from Kenosha, but I didn't realize he was from Illinois.
@Mitch Antioch.
Bless you.
But no really, where was he from?
hah ah
That's practically Wisconsin anyway
Hey
Hm...
Not.
01:51
aren't you...
::side eye emoji::
👀
I am from seven entire cisfib miles north.
A couple leagues, and then some.
::other direction side eye emoji::
 
1 hour later…
03:26
> We built a new model! It’s called Action Transformer (ACT-1) and we taught it to use a bunch of software tools. In this first video, the user simply types a high-level request and ACT-1 does the rest twitter.com/jluan/status/1570172602022494208
03:52
> In point of fact there is no occasion for anxiety about the future happiness of man so long as he continues to be in any way profitable to the machines; he may become the inferior race, but he will be infinitely better off than he is now. Is it not then both absurd and unreasonable to be envious of our benefactors?
 
3 hours later…
07:14
Wordle 453 4/6

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07:47
#Worldle #237 4/6 (100%)
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https://worldle.teuteuf.fr
#Worldle #237 X/6 (91%)
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https://worldle.teuteuf.fr
08:15
#Worldle #237 4/6 (100%)
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https://worldle.teuteuf.fr
08:41
#Statele #175 1/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
https://outflux.net/statele/
🌎 Sept 15, 2022 🌍
🔥 8 | Avg. Guesses: 7.7
🟧🟧🟥🟥🟥🟩 = 6

https://globle-game.com/game
Le Mot (@WordleFR) #249 💀/6

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https://wordle.louan.me
Bad tactics...
 
4 hours later…
12:53
@Cerberus for a broken wrist, the cast loops around your thumb from the palm to the back of the hand, and then encircled entirely, either up to the elbow or beyond the elbow.
So just your fingers can curl (on both hands) but you can't bend your wrist, and ont the beyond elbow cast you can't bend your elbow.
so yeah you can articulate your fingers in both hands but it's a little ungainly. For writing you can still move thumb and index finger without pain/affecting the wrist, but it can be easier to move the enire arm from the shoulder for that.
No it doesn't result in very clean penmanship but it works.
@Mitch Your wrist is broken? I'm sorry to hear that!
> The results showed that the activity of the left brain in response to hand-manipulable objects was significantly reduced by hand restraints. Verbal responses were also affected by hand constraints.
Interesting. Would that mean that by moving your hands more, you can activate some verbal activities?
13:31
> We continued through the square, which was named for Mirzah Sabir, a national hero who died in 1911. A statue of Sabir in the middle of the square depicted the man seated. It was, Fuad said, a visual euphemism, because “getting him to sit” was a Russian expression for imprisoning someone, and Sabir, a writer and satirist, had been imprisoned.

Theroux, Paul. Ghost Train to the Eastern Star: 28,000 Miles in Search of the Railway Bazaar (p. 101). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt.
@CowperKettle: In the above quotation, is that a real Russian expression, "getting someone to sit" as a euphemism for imprisonment?
#Worldle #237 2/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩⬜⬜↙️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr
🌎 Sept 15, 2022 🌍
🔥 15 | Avg. Guesses: 6.22
🟨🟧🟥🟥🟩 = 5

#globle
Wordle 453 3/6

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@jlliagre Haha, I was born in that state.
@Robusto I would not say it's an euphemism. It's part of the expression посадить в тюрьму (to sit someone in a prison)
Ah, thanks.
Actually, we say that in Dutch, in a slightly different way:
I guess he's talking about the statue being a visual euphemism.
> Hij zit in de gevangenis = he sits in prison = he is imprisoned.
From which:
13:36
@Robusto Yes, that is so
A statue is a visual euphemism.
> He moest een jaar zitten = he must sit a year = he had to be imprisoned for a year
Interesting.
I think you need "must", though.
Oh, we also have:
> Hij zit gevangen = he is imprisoned
I think gevangenis is a cognate with the German.
There was a joke in a famous Soviet comedy where a criminal is asked whether a statue was standing or sitting. He exclaims in disbelief: "Who can sit him (i.e. the statue's protagonist)?! He is a monument!"
A wordplay on the same.
13:37
^_^
> Кто ж его посадит!? Он же памятник!
@Robusto Probably. Vangen = catch
DE: fangen = catch
> Man kann mit Zucker viele Fliegen fangen.
By the way, this movie actor emigrated from the USSR to the USA
Savely Viktorovich Kramarov (Russian: Саве́лий Ви́кторович Кра́маров; 13 October 1934 – 6 June 1995) was a Soviet, Russian and American actor. He acted in at least 42 Soviet films, and later appeared in several more after his immigration to the United States. == Early life == Savely Kramarov was born 13 October 1934 to Jewish parents: father Viktor Savelyevich Kramarov (Виктор Савельевич Крамаров), a prominent Moscow attorney, and mother Benedikta Solomonovna "Basya" Kramarova (née Volchek) (Бенедиктa Соломоновнa "Бася" Крамарова (Волчек)). When young Savely was only three years old, the elder...
> Kramarov next took up a campaign in Western news media to secure his coveted exit visa, going so far as to write to then-U.S. President Ronald Reagan, as from "one actor to another." The Reagan letter was read multiple times on Voice of America radio.
He was refused to leave, but he persisted, and managed to get through, with help from Western politicians and media.
I saw Moscow on the Hudson.
13:41
I heard of it.
Robin Williams starred in it.
Yes, an actor I love.
He was very lucky to star in brilliant movies.
Those movies were brilliant usually because he was in them.
Karen Georgievich Shakhnazarov, PAR (Russian: Каре́н Гео́ргиевич Шахназа́ров; born 8 July 1952) is a Soviet and Russian filmmaker, producer and screenwriter. He became the Director General of Mosfilm studios in 1998. Shakhnazarov is the son of a Georgy Shakhnazarov, a politician of Armenian descent, and a Russian housewife, Anna Grigorievna Shakhnazarova.His 1987 film Courier was entered into the 15th Moscow International Film Festival, where it won a Special Prize. In 2002 he was a member of the jury at the 24th Moscow International Film Festival. Since 2005 he has been a member of the Public...
A director who shot "The Messenger Boy", a brilliant movie.
What a Karen! ;)
13:47
And now he regularly appears on TV, ardently supporting the Special Operation.
Courier (Russian: Курьер, romanized: Kuryer), also known as Messenger Boy is a 1986 Soviet comedy-drama film directed by Karen Shakhnazarov. It was entered into the 15th Moscow International Film Festival where it won a Special Prize. == Plot == Ivan Miroshnikov, а 17-year-old high school graduate, fails to enter university and gets fixed up with a job as a courier (delivery person) in a small publishing company. At the same time his parents get divorced. His ironic and careless attitude to his new miserable job covers the deep confusion of his soul. By pure accident he meets a girl named Katya...
A great movie.
Winter Evening in Gagra (Russian: Зимний вечер в Гаграх, romanized: Zimniy vecher v Gagrakh) is a 1985 musical film directed by Karen Shakhnazarov. == Plot == Rapid rhythm and playful virtuoso improvisation - that's what tap dance is. The protagonist of the film who once was a famous tap dancer, an idol of the public, lives today modestly and discreetly. He is a dance tutor for pop groups where the other stars shine. And suddenly everything changes: the old artist suddenly remembers his youth. A somewhat strange encounter with a young man who comes with a broken leg affects him; the man asks to...
And this movie of his is also great, I watched it several times as a boy.
@Cerberus That was actually intended in a narrower sense, for, shall we say, local consumption.
Karen, with the stress falling on the last syllable (en), is a male name. Probably from the Caucasus region.
@CowperKettle A film about a typeface! @tchrist will be interested.
@CowperKettle Just making a joke.
13:51
His father was a Soviet politician from Georgia
> He was one of the half-dozen aides closest to Mikhail Gorbachev while he was Soviet leader and after his fall from power at the collapse of the Soviet Union. Shakhnazarov was an early advocate of reform and helped Gorbachev to shape his plans to open up the system to new ideas and freedoms
His father was one of the architects of Perestroika.
And his son now supports Putin.
A twist of fate.
@Robusto Good to see you haven't recently changed your birthplace. :-)
Aug 3 at 18:18, by Robusto
@jlliagre Hehe, I was born there.
@jlliagre I considered that, but decided it would get too confusing.
Now I know the shape of this state, you can move along.
I just don't remember every little thing anymore.
Especially before I've been sufficiently coffeed up.
14:25
Leo Tolstoy in 1903
He never won the Nobel Prize for Literature. Unthinkably.
> Wirsén went on in this decorous manner, never revealing that the Academy, in its deliberations, had considered giving the prize to Leo Tolstoy or Émile Zola. Later reporting revealed that Tolstoy’s sixteen subsequent nominations may have failed for ideological reasons; the Academy apparently took issue with his “half-rationalistic, half-mystic spirit.”
> In time, Prudhomme was joined in the history of dubious literature Nobels by Rudolf Eucken, Paul Heyse, Władysław Reymont, Erik Axel Karlfeldt, Verner von Heidenstam, Winston Churchill, Pearl S. Buck, and Dario Fo. The list of non-Nobelists includes Joyce, Proust, Chekhov, Musil, Wharton, Woolf, Kafka, Brecht, Borges, Akhmatova, Rilke, Orwell, Lorca, Twain, Baldwin, Achebe, and Murakami, and stretches on from there.
I heard that Zola was a great writer. I memorized a poem about him. But I have never read his books.
also a great runner!
Zola Budd (also known as Zola Pieterse; born 26 May 1966) is a South African middle-distance and long-distance runner. She competed at the 1984 Olympic Games for Great Britain and the 1992 Olympic Games for South Africa, both times in the 3000 metres. In 1984 (unratified) and 1985, she broke the world record in the 5000 metres. She was also a two-time winner at the World Cross Country Championships (1985–1986). Budd mainly trained and raced barefoot. Her mile best of 4:17.57 in 1985, still stands as the British record. She returned to South Africa in 1989, and represented South Africa at the 1992...
This Budd's for you!
@Robusto wait.
Would Rushdie be in the dubious gang, or the deserves gang?
14:40
@M.A.R. Deserves, according to that article.
I don't think Salman deserves a Nobel
@Robusto doesn't the same article argue that Nobel prizes should not be symbolic?
I don't even think Bob Dylan deserved a Nobel, although I love his songs.
@M.A.R. I don't know, tell me what you think?
I find that pretty ironic. He doesn't want to be recognized as a hero. Let's give him a badge as a symbol of our vindication
14:42
> In the mid-nineteen-eighties, Salman Rushdie’s masterpieces, “Midnight’s Children” and “Shame,” had been translated into Persian and were admired in Iran as expressions of anti-imperialism. Everything changed on February 14, 1989, when Ayatollah Khomeini condemned as blasphemous “The Satanic Verses,” a novel that he hadn’t bothered to read, and issued a fatwa calling for the author’s death.
@Robusto I think this whole "symbolic" business is how absolute trash of a human being like Churchill end up with the prize
Me, I have no dog in this fight. I don't care about Nobel prizes, since they have been so silly in the past.
I love Churchill's books.
My linking this was amplification of them overlooking Tolstoy. So how can you take them seriously.
A History of the English-speaking Peoples by Churchill is very interesting.
14:44
Rushdie himself is under attack. One of the few reasons that make me ashamed to reveal my nationality in some places online. His values aren't, they're pretty safe, unless people try to turn them into a holy war of its own.
@Robusto did Trump get a Nobe peace prize BTW?
I'm sure Kissinger or someone like that got it
@M.A.R. Obama got one. Pretty sure Trump didn't.
"He was so incompetent he didn't get a Nobel peace prize."
3
@M.A.R. Yeah, Kissinger won the Peace Prize, to their eternal shame.
There are several layers to that roast
Medium rare
> For his actions negotiating a ceasefire in Vietnam, Kissinger received the 1973 Nobel Peace Prize under controversial circumstances, with two members of the committee resigning in protest.
A war criminal wins a Nobel Peace Prize. That's irony for you.
14:49
All he had to do was grimace and look sad when people mentioned child soldiers in Mali or Nigeria, and he would've won the prize for not poking that hornet's nest with a stick
Trump couldn't even roust himself to go honor the war dead of WWII, even though he was in France to do precisely that. Excuse: It was kind of rainy out.
@Robusto I've found from the Assange fiasco that Sweden can afford to be quite tone deaf when they need to.
The Nobel Prize is an institution, and institutions get corrupted.
@Robusto absolutely amazing. You can't make this stuff up.
Oh, psychological torture? Solitary confinement for a decade? Whoops
Well, the Nobel committee was created from an irony.
15:22
@Robusto Haha I see.
@CowperKettle The original way to get high.
@CowperKettle It's funny, and a lot of work!
15:40
Yes, it's great
15:57
@CowperKettle thanks for your concern, but no, I was talking about when I was a kid and broke them
@CowperKettle the bio,chem, and physics ones seem uncintroversial
Maybe econ too
Someone is going to tell me I'm wrong
@Mitch I'm wrong
@M.A.R. 😬
@Mitch there's pills for jaundice
There's pills for dementia
Hmm, actually, just some herbal "makes liver feel good" supplements. The idea is often you clean out the poison and the liver helps itself.
@Mitch mostly ineffective
Actually, now that we've helped people live longer on average, if we manage to 'cure' dementia, immortality would only become a matter of scale.
16:08
Hmm but many, many people still die of other causes.
And, if dementia should be solved, they will die somewhat later, of some other cause.
Like heart conditions, cancer, etc.
There's a joke that we have Viagra, but don't have drugs for dementia. So there's a lot of guys with good working parts below the waist, but with no memory about how to use them.
Or something like that.
@Cerberus the unique thing about dementia is it strips life from almost any sort of enjoyment. If we do manage to make the brain heal, then we have solved most of the mystery of how to help people enjoy their lives to the end. Everything else, like COPD or cancer, we're rapidly progressing towards making them curable and bearable. Better diagnostic tools and better anti-cancer treatments have revolutionized the patients' quality of life. But dementia . . . Nothing much there.
Once people stop suffering in their final years, it's only a matter of extending life, a lot of it no longer a medical challenge
16:23
@M.A.R. so you're saying heroin for old people?
Immortality would then become a numbers game. So how long until someone is bored of this life? 120, 150, 200 years? Immortality would become a technicality.
But the mechanisms of dementias are so complex. There must be a whole new generation of ultra-specialized doctors able to understand these mechanisms and apply the treatments precisely.
@Mitch we do not discriminate based on gender here. Any normal hero would also do.
@M.A.R. Hmm that is one way to look at it.
@M.A.R. I keep seeing ads for Premagen' for memory problems in old people. They should just call the commercial name 'Placebo'
Or better truth in advertising 'Buymeandthatsit'
16:27
@Mitch legitimate drugs, such as rivastigmine, that boost the brain's cholinergic systems are used to slow down the progress of dementia and alleviate some symptoms. Buuut they have all the specificity of a blind monkey carpet bombing the ocean
For instance, it was discovered that many cases of dementia are related to the TDP-43 protein. But it's a transcriptional regulator. It interacts with a slew of other genes/proteins. Go and try cure that.
@CowperKettle the answer probably lies elsewhere. I'm wildly speculating but we could probably cure dementia before we found out how the cellular processes work. If you manage to make viable neurons in the lab, and develop some method of incorporating them in the braIn matter that's degenerated, and let them do their stuff, you'd be more likely to get results
Searching for a single target and developing a drug for that is probably too conventional
16:45
Pumping reelin into the brain cures stress-induced depression in rodents instantly, by speeding up neuroplasticity. Maybe some Ilon Musk will come up with a safe way of delivering drugs directly into the brain.
@M.A.R. That wouldn't change someone's brain structure, whence his mind?
> - "Hey, you used to be demented, and how you're clear as glass!"
- "Yeah, I changed my mind."
16:58
> President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia said on Thursday that Moscow understood that China had “questions and concerns” about the war in Ukraine — a notable, if cryptic, admission from Mr. Putin that Beijing may not fully approve of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

And his Chinese counterpart, Xi Jinping...struck a far more subdued tone than the Russian president, and steered clear of any mention of Ukraine at all.
>
While Chinese officials have offered some lip service in recent months to Russia’s message that the war in Ukraine was the West’s fault, Mr. Xi did not repeat any of those lines in his televised comments. He carefully avoided offering any endorsement of specific Russian policies...
French and British soldiers in Crimea, 1855
@Cerberus Did you see Prigozhin's speech before criminals in a prison?
@CowperKettle Nicely coloured in.
@CowperKettle I never see speeches: what did he say?
Ah, thanks.
You must never surrender. You must carry two grenades when surrendering.
2
Interesting.
We only need assault infantry.
Jumping into enemy trenches with kives.
17:41
@Mitch Um, remind me what that means again?
@CowperKettle They're just older children, that's all.
18:19
@Robusto I will pleasantly inform you that it will have a noticeable effect without trying. You don't need to concentrate.
@Mitch You mean it's like orange juice? "Not from concentrate"?
YOu don't need to dilute either... those homeopathic medicines is just charlatanry.
Who are you calling a homeo?
It took me a few moments to type that: sharla .. tanree
Bunch of goddam hippoes
Solo fue una charla entre amigos.
18:23
looks up charla
Cómo te atreves!
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