English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

20:00

We must look to @ЯegDwight if we would know what the future augurs.

When he is in flight.

@WillHunting Not saying much, that.

user19161

Also, what happened to Carlo? Gone?

ChairOTP

@tchrist I've seen that kind of divination before.

ЯegDwight

@tchrist they still do that with chinchillas in South America, as you will know.

tchrist

@WillHunting Ubi sunt . . .

user19161

So @reg how do you find Sommersturm?

ЯegDwight

20:01

Guinea pigs, I mean.

tchrist

Guinea pigs get all the slams.

Robusto

@MattЭллен No Dumbo references in chat.

ChairOTP

@ЯegDwight Where, exactly?

ЯegDwight

You want a video?

Matt Эллен

@Robusto too late!

Robusto

20:02

@tchrist What the future augurs does us no good. An augury must be presented and perceived in the present.

David Wallace

Good morning everybody, I have a question.

ЯegDwight

Venezuela. Bolivia. You name it. Wherever they eat guinea pigs. Which is basically everywhere.

Robusto

No questions in chat.

user19161

@cerberus You have spelled iPhone as Iphone over 9000 times!

ChairOTP

@ЯegDwight I've seen how they do it. SO no need for that.

Matt Эллен

20:03

@DavidWallace is it about balrogs or mobile devices?

tchrist

I bent it into something portentious.

David Wallace

Neither.

user19161

@DavidWallace Yes. What do you intend to do with the question?

ЯegDwight

@ChairOTP Then I should be asking you.

tchrist

Why does Safari always draw squiggly red lines under my funnest words?

user19161

20:04

@tchrist Because you did not install the correct dictionary?

user19161

@ЯegDwight I usually don't eat pigs, only chickens and fishes.

ChairOTP

@ЯegDwight I was just wondering where else besides where I saw it.

David Wallace

An extraordinarily beautiful young woman, someone whom I really like, recently gave me a photo. In this photo, she is lying on a double bed, and looking at the camera with a sultry look in her eyes. How should I interpret the act of her sending me this photo?

2

tchrist

You guys know what a harumfrodite is?

ChairOTP

@DavidWallace I think that doesn't belong here to be precise.

Matt Эллен

20:05

@DavidWallace assume she is a man.

user19161

@DavidWallace You should forget about it since you are married.

David Wallace

You're right, ChairOTP. But since the majority of the people in this room are people whom I consider friends, I thought it was worth asking.

tchrist

harumfrodite /hɛəˈrʌmfrədaɪt/. Jocular slang. Also harumphrodite, herumfrodite. Etymology: After hermaphrodite. = hermaphrodite sb. and a. So haˌrumphroˈditic a., characteristic of an hermaphrodite. Citations from the 19th century through the 20th.

ChairOTP

@DavidWallace Oh, I didn't know that. My bad.

tchrist

@MattЭллен hermaphrodite?

Robusto

20:06

Q. In Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice, why did Antonio name his daughter after a German sports car?

David Wallace

@WillHunting Oh, I'm not thinking about doing anything untoward. My question is only ... how would you interpret this action?

Matt Эллен

@tchrist ham afro [dam]?

user19161

@DavidWallace You should ask her. I ask when I am unsure, knowing that people can have over 9000 intentions.

ChairOTP

@DavidWallace I think it's obvious. What would be your intention if you did that?

user19161

@DavidWallace As for interpretation, I can't answer that for you.

Robusto

20:07

@DavidWallace This is one of those situations where more context is necessary to answer, but if you give us more context it will be too much for our delicate senses.

tchrist

Sep 3 at 19:42, by tchrist

Doesn’t matter. Anybody who doesn’t want their gender known is a girl.

user19161

@ChairOTP Often there is more than meets the eye.

user19161

@Robusto I did not know you were so delicate.

Matt Эллен

@DavidWallace I would interpret it as a come on, if we'd been flirting

ChairOTP

@WillHunting I agree that we would need more context, but as he stated it, I would say it's kind of easy to tell.

David Wallace

20:08

@ChairOTP Humour me. Pretend I'm completely stupid. Tell me in very small words what this means.

Mahnax

Hello.

David Wallace

@MattЭллен What if we hadn't been?

user19161

@ChairOTP My whole life, people have misread me, really.

Robusto

@DavidWallace Are you married?

Matt Эллен

@DavidWallace it would depend on what we had been talking about. if nothing at all then I would think it was strange and probably email back asking what was going on in a flirtatious manner

user19161

20:10

@MattЭллен It is best to do so in an ordinary manner.

ChairOTP

@WillHunting I know, but people misread us because we aren't clear enough for them to understand. Or they're just narrow-minded and are not open to further explanations.

tchrist

This is not a sexting room.

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting well, you're not me! ;)

David Wallace

@Robusto Yes, I am married. That is not the point here.

ChairOTP

@DavidWallace It depends on how close you are.

user19161

20:10

@MattЭллен Indeed!

David Wallace

@ChairOTP Suppose we're really good friends.

ChairOTP

@DavidWallace She's just lying, or is she striking a pose?

Robusto

Define "really" and "good" for us.

user19161

@DavidWallace The photo is pretty harmless I would say.

David Wallace

@ChairOTP Umm, it seems like a pose to me.

user19161

20:11

@DavidWallace Every photo is taken with a pose.

user19161

No pose is also some pose.

Robusto

@WillHunting Poser.

ChairOTP

@DavidWallace Then an insinuating pose?

Matt Эллен

do you pose with your nose when writing prose for a rose having a dose with the crows where the river flows?

David Wallace

@ChairOTP What do you mean by insinuating?

Gigili

20:14

@DavidWallace Umm, it depends.

Robusto

@MattЭллен Can't stop the wars, can't make the old younger or lower the price of bread; can't ease solitude or dull the tread outside the door. We can only nod, Yes, it's true.

Gigili

She did it voluntarily or you asked her to send you photos.

ChairOTP

@DavidWallace suggestive.

David Wallace

@ChairOTP I consider her pose suggestive; she may not.

Mitch

@ChairOTP Why not?

user19161

20:17

@carlo Hi!

Gigili

OK, there you go @tchrist.

Carlo_R.

Hello, who are you?

user19161

@Carlo_R. I am Jasper. This is one of the usernames I use sometimes.

Gigili

Umm, it was WH. Sorry.

Carlo_R.

Hello Jasper!!!

ChairOTP

20:18

@Mitch As I said earlier, you can feel in your dreams just as you do in real life, and feeling does not necessarily means it's real life.

user19161

@ChairOTP mean

ChairOTP

@DavidWallace I repeat Gigili's question, did she send it to you voluntarily?

Robusto

Anyway, @David, given that you're married (and supposing she knows that fact), you have to consider the possibility that she is fucking with your head. It's what women do.

ChairOTP

@WillHunting ?

tchrist

@Robusto Bitter, much?

user19161

20:19

@ChairOTP You used the wrong form of the verb.

Robusto

@tchrist Not bitter. Just observant.

user19161

Only bitter gourds are bitter.

Robusto

Your characterizing my remark as bitterness says more about you than it does about me, in fact.

tchrist

@Robusto Pretty sure it is more of a general-human thing than a girl-thing.

David Wallace

@ChairOTP Err, she and I sometimes send each other photos, yes. And, yes, I asked her for photos from her recent holiday. I didn't expect one like this though; this is the first like this.

ChairOTP

20:21

@WillHunting Sorry, I thought you were calling me mean, and I thought I said something disrespectful.

Robusto

@tchrist Why, because you like to fuck with people's heads? Fallacy of composition, I think.

user19161

@ChairOTP Oh OK.

David Wallace

@Robusto I don't think she intends to mess with my head. But it's an interesting point.

tchrist

You know, Rob, nobody asked you to be an asshole today.

Robusto

I didn't use the word mess.

user19161

20:21

@DavidWallace But really, you should just ask her. No point in speculating.

David Wallace

@Robusto Yes, but I did.

ЯegDwight

Just give it a couple years, then look at the photo again.

Mar 4 '11 at 16:27, by RegDwight

Show me the hottest person ever, and I will show you another person who's sick of their shit.

Mitch

@ChairOTP It worked for me just now. I was in a dream. I pinched myself. As hard as I could. Didn't feel a thing. I realized 'Gosh, I must be in a dream' (I mince my oaths in dreams, another piece of evidence). Then I was going to carjack a ferrari that just appeared, but then my mother stepped out of it and asked me if I had brushed my teeth. Then I saw a billboard with the word 'Eskimo' I couldn't read the letters at all but I knew it was that word somehow.

Then .. well I forget... and now I'm here. Trust me It was a dream.

Robusto

@tchrist Nobody asks you on every other day, so why do you care?

tchrist

FOAD

ChairOTP

20:23

@DavidWallace If it's not the first time you send each other photos, then I don't see the problem. Just because she sent a photo like that doesn't mean it couldn't have been you the one to send it in first place.

Matt Эллен

ЯegDwight

This romantic comedy between Robusto and Tchrist is driving me nuts. Just stop fighting and kiss each other already.

7

David Wallace

@ChairOTP You mean, she wanted to send that one first, but she was too shy?

Robusto

@tchrist I win.

Gigili

I Linux.

tchrist

20:24

You’re the asshole who insists on playing your stupid asshole game.

David Wallace

OK, thank you everyone for your feedback. It's been an interesting mixed bag of opinions. Much appreciated.

Gigili

Umm, I meant I Ubuntu. Sorry.

Matt Эллен

Elementals are people too

tchrist

Why don’t you just keep your nose up out of my ass where it doesn’t belong?

Robusto

@tchrist Whoa, double win!

ChairOTP

20:24

@Mitch I wouldn't take the 'pinch myself' too literally.

tchrist

I hate dogs.

user19161

@ЯegDwight That sounds so gay.

Robusto

@tchrist What are you gonna do about it? Really.

user19161

@tchrist I don't think the nose can fit into the ass. The shape and size are all wrong.

tchrist

You go out of your way to make life here fucking unpleasant for me, and I am sick and fucking tired of it.

ChairOTP

20:26

@DavidWallace No I meant, she just did it. Taking into account you have shared pictures before, I guess she thought it wasn't big deal to send a selfie.

tchrist

You’re the one on the attack.

Mitch

@WillHunting Nope, this is it. Also, when you think things can't get any worse, really, they can get a whole lot worse. Which really, you should take as a sign that you're doing pretty good. Really.

tchrist

I did nothing.

So bend over buster.

ЯegDwight

Hm. Where is that timeout button.

Gigili

Stop it or else I'll turn you into a winged balrog.

ChairOTP

20:26

@Mitch And seems like you were lucid dreaming.

ЯegDwight

Nope, this isn't it.

Mitch

@ChairOTP Kids these days do the punch test. Actually that's in reality not in dreams. and they punch each other. Goddamn kids.

user19161

@Mitch Hmm, sounds good.

David Wallace

@ChairOTP OK, thanks.

Robusto

@tchrist 1. Not true. 2. There are other places you can go.

user19161

20:27

Why is David's picture causing a commotion in this room? Amazing!

Mitch

@WillHunting Because he hasn't shown it.

tchrist

Oh right, you’re supposed to make life so unpleasant for me I can fucking go elsewhere eh?

ChairOTP

@Mitch You know how kids act nowadays... they let the chips fall where they may.

tchrist

What kind of acceptable behavior is that?

ЯegDwight

People. I mean, come on.

tchrist

20:28

I have had it.

ЯegDwight

This room was placed in timeout for 1 minute; the topic of this room is "aka The Incomпrehensible Room" - conversation should be limited to that topic.

►

Mitch

@ChairOTP They also punch each other for no reason

Matt Эллен

that was a minute and a half!

Mitch

and then laugh.

user19161

Yay! Over!

Mitch

20:30

gd kids.

ЯegDwight

@MattЭллен yeah, bug report.

Matt Эллен

:D

ChairOTP

@Mitch Tell me you never did something for no reason.

Mitch

that is some weird ass downcounting.

Matt Эллен

I liked the animation though

Robusto

20:30

I thought we would have been given a light show or something. All we got was a bunch of stupid numbers.

user19161

@sim You just missed a timeout.

simchona

@WillHunting Is it because of Carlo?

ЯegDwight

I didn't even see any numbers. I was watching the video!

user19161

@simchona Nope. Carlo is a good boy.

Matt Эллен

@simchona not today!

ЯegDwight

20:31

Damnit. Now I have to freeze you all again.

simchona

I thought you were going to leave if I became mod, @Carlo_R.

ЯegDwight

That won't ping him. Unless he was here today?

tchrist

@simchona No, it’s because Rob can’t behave himself.

user19161

Oh, I hope we don't get another timeout now.

Matt Эллен

now now, a lot was said back then, but maybe people have changed

simchona

20:32

@ЯegDwight He's in the room.

tchrist

@ЯegDwight He is here now.

Matt Эллен

no need to dredge up the past

ЯegDwight

Oh haha.

Mitch

@ChairOTP no reason? I never had no reason. I had a restricted knowledge set, bounded rationalism as they say. Kids these days would just as well walk on your lawn as look at you. And they -do-.

ЯegDwight

Still catching up.

Robusto

20:32

@tchrist You're the one who insulted me first.

user19161

@ЯegDwight What happened to you?

Mitch

They'll look you right in the eye.

and stuff.

tchrist

@Robusto Bullshit. Anybody can read the log. You’re lying.

Robusto

@tchrist And you're charming. As always.

ЯegDwight

Oh-oh.

Matt Эллен

20:33

@Robusto, @tchrist give it up already!

user19161

I think that Robusto and tchrist should be given detention class.

Matt Эллен

did you not see the timeout?

ЯegDwight

If you call me a liar, you'd better smile when you say that, pardner. Them's fightin' words where I come from. — Robusto Jan 21 '11 at 20:07

Mitch

@ЯegDwight timeout was fun. what was the countdown algorithm? randomly subtract 2,3, or 4 every second. Had my attention.

ЯegDwight

@Mitch as I said earlier, I missed it all!

tchrist

20:34

@ЯegDwight Fine, spade then.

ЯegDwight

0

Q: Is there a rule to what ending you use when you construct the nationality adjective? Or where did the various endings come from?

In the English language, you have several endings used when you construct an adjective out of the name of a nationality. For example, the nationality of Japan is Japanese while the nationality of Korea is Korean. Is there a grammar rule that decides what ending should be used? Or what did decide...

Dupe.

Mitch

@ЯegDwight Takes time to read the transcript. Any way it was more rom than com.

ЯegDwight

Well I can't find the original. Was it not about nationalities, after all? Was it about languages?

tchrist

10

Q: Are there any rules governing what we call people from different countries?

people from China = Chinese people from Japan = Japanese people from Australia = Australian people from Lebanon = Lebanese people from Sweden = Swedish Are there any rules that govern this? Like people from asian countries all end with an "ese" or something? Or maybe some rules...

vocabulary terminology demonyms

ЯegDwight

Crap, one second too late.

tchrist

20:39

You should have searched on demonym.

ЯegDwight

The answers are not very satisfactory, though.

Mitch

OK so the SE developers have spent crazy ass time developing that super-awesome chat timeout feature....

tchrist

If you want something done right . . .

Mitch

and they haven't implemented my search suggestions (that nobody agrees with) which are trivial!

user19161

@Mitch I don't even use the ninja search function!

ЯegDwight

20:41

@tchrist well that was my mistake. I was thinking suffixes. And went less technical from there. The search query that was successful ended up being "language ish ian".

tchrist

I agree that the answers aren’t.

Mitch

@WillHunting and yet you use the chat hyper-whack time-freeze-out feature? I don't think you know what's good for you.

Robusto

@Mitch They also disdain inline display of comments, though the current system prove vexing at times.

ЯegDwight

Ah, the inline comments. Rob dem sei Steckenpferd.)))

Mitch

@Robusto inline?

ЯegDwight

20:44

13

Q: Why are comment lists abridged in the middle?

In longish lists of comments the list gets abridged and a "more comments" link shows up at the end, kind of like an ellipsis. Normally, one would expect that such a list would be trimmed at the end, but on English.SE (and possibly on other SE sites) the elisions can occur anywhere in the list. F...

bug feature-request status-bydesign

The old wounds!

Robusto

@Mitch Upvoted comments crowd out the interstitial comments, destroying the sense and flow of a conversation. TPTB don't want conversations. Or sense. Or flow.

@ЯegDwight Kinda makes you nostalgic for the good old days, doesn't it?

ЯegDwight

Nostalgic for that kind of fights? Dunno...

Besides, you still have the comments abridged in the middle.

Mitch

@ЯegDwight ohhh..... right. I can see how sitting in a room with a bunch of other people they could convince themselves that the existing comment abridgment policy is somehow rational, when in fact it is incoherent.

ЯegDwight

The olden days are still here!

tchrist

@ЯegDwight I’m sorry, but I don’t have time to answer properly. As I’m sure you know, the answer is that the various -ese, -an, -ian &c suffixes for creating adjectives for inhabitants or languages out of places derive from Latin and have direct cognates/parallels in the Romance tongues. Which one ends up being chosen is partly a matter of euphony and partly of serendipity.

ЯegDwight

20:48

Well yes.

Y u nio copy-post that at least as a comment on either question?

tchrist

Fine.

ЯegDwight

And that Neil guy should have really expanded his link by now.

tchrist

I flagvote so damned many link-only non-answers on SO daily it isn’t even funny.

Dozens and dozens.

ЯegDwight

The new system is stupid.

The old one was faster.

I could scan through 30 rubbishes at a time and cherry-pick which ones to act on.

Robusto

c'm'yoot.

ЯegDwight

20:52

CU

tchrist

Neil hasn’t been seen since the day after May Day.

cornbread ninja

ahoy, me pretties

tchrist

If It’s to happen, it shan’t be him doing it.

ЯegDwight

I still haven't so much as clicked his link, truth be told.

tchrist

It’s reasonable. Or its contents are. But they should be here not there.

cornbread ninja

20:54

@WillHunting look no further

tchrist

Click through. I really don’t feel like repro’ing that, which is mostly all I’d be doing.

Matt Эллен

@tchrist I'm fixing it up as we speak

ЯegDwight

Whoa, that's a huge post.

tchrist

@MattЭллен Thank you. I commented on the other one.

Matt Эллен

I find the reference a little lacking accuracy

tchrist

20:56

@ЯegDwight Which is why I don’t fancy recreating all that.

ЯegDwight

Hello @sjohnston. Have a lily.

Matt Эллен

@ЯegDwight luckily most of it is irrelevant

tchrist

@MattЭллен The thing about Italian bothers me.

Carlo_R.

Italian?

ЯegDwight

Buonasera.

Matt Эллен

20:57

India -> Indian, you add -n, not -an

Carlo_R.

Ciao

Matt Эллен

many are likethat

simchona

I guess you'll never answer my (somewhat rhetorical but not really) question, @Carlo_R.

Matt Эллен

but anyway, I digress

Carlo_R.

@sim yes, you are right

cornbread ninja

20:58

oh, god

simchona

@Carlo_R. Well, at least you're not a man of your word.

Matt Эллен

@cornbreadninja yes? I can take a message...

Carlo_R.

Sorry, @sim I'm here for tonight only

simchona

@Carlo_R. Break my heart why don't you. Such a pity.

Carlo_R.

@sim you English is difficult to me, sorry

simchona

21:02

@Carlo_R. Why does your level of English seem to vary between utterances?

ЯegDwight

So much fighting today. I'm tired.

Carlo_R.

"... vary between utterance". what?

tchrist

@MattЭллен Iberian, Portuguese, Castilian, Asturian, Catalan, Manchego, Andaluz, Gallego, Aragonese, Navarrese, Balearic, Cantabric, Extremaduran, Valencian, Murcian, Mallorquí, Marroquí. No surprises there.

ЯegDwight

John Lawler says, -ese is from Greek.

Matt Эллен

@ЯegDwight well, wait until tomorrow night!

tchrist

21:04

@ЯegDwight I didn’t like that Italian winging.

ЯegDwight

This is only getting complicateder. You all sort it out, I'll go do something else.

BBL

Carlo_R.

@tchrist I do not know English, but I recognize the word 'Italian'

How is important "Italian" in this discussion?

tchrist

@ЯegDwight People shouldn’t scratch open sores. To worry them as a dog does to his own injuries is but mindless destruction. It just makes them worse, needlessly.

Matt Эллен

Italy sort of follows the pattern reported in the article, but only if you accept the y as an i

tchrist

@Carlo_R. Read this and decide whether and what you agree or disagree with. That is the context.

Not many countries have names that end in -y.

Italy, Germany, Hungary, Paraguay, Uruguay, Turkey. Sicily. Romany.

English -y is from Latinate -ia.

Via France.

As -ie.

Matt Эллен

21:08

Vive la France!

tchrist

Normandy, to be precise.

But those are Normans.

Matt Эллен

Normandian

tchrist

Not Normen.

Matt Эллен

Germans

Germen

tchrist

Alleman Left.

No girls here.

Matt Эллен

21:10

I see one!

two if you count the fading GraceNote

tchrist

She counts.

Early and often.

She knows who’s been bad and good.

Matt Эллен

indeed

tchrist

So be good for goodness’ sake.

What her right hand giveth, her left hand taketh away.

Carlo_R.

I have a problem with my phone now. The design of the chat is changed and I'm no longer able to scroll up the screen. Thus I cannot follow the discussion. Is there any solution?

@tchrist yes I read, but I cannot confirm if the article is right. I do not speak English, nor Latin. However, if it is helpful, here in Italy we say "americano", "italiano" etc. So we have only the suffix "no": america-no, italia-no.

In other words, there is no difference between 'ian' and 'an'.

Matt Эллен

21:31

right. now I really must try to write some fiction...

Carlo_R.

@Matt what is a "fiction"?

ChairOTP

@Carlo_R. For Argentina, would it be Argentino?

Matt Эллен

@Carlo_R. a fiction is a lie, some fiction is a story

or part of a story

ChairOTP

@MattЭллен I think fiction is the same in English as in Italian, I think.

Carlo_R.

@chairOTP yes it is argentino. In Italy we do not capitalize these words.

Matt Эллен

21:34

@ChairOTP I see

Carlo_R.

@ChairOTP for example, we write 'francese' not 'Francese'.

ChairOTP

@Carlo_R. Yes, I know what you mean. I shouldn't have capitalized it now that I think about it.

Carlo_R.

@ChairOTP yes

@Matt congratulations for blog reboot

Matt Эллен

Thanks! We're working hard to keep it going

Carlo_R.

And I'm afraid you did not get the moderator position

Matt Эллен

21:40

Nothing to worry about, really. It keeps my time free for other things

Plus we have two good new mods

Carlo_R.

@Matt do you think that italian.stackexchang.com will start up?

Matt Эллен

@Carlo_R. if there is enough interest. I don't see why not, there are many xL&Us in beta

hiya @Kit!

Carlo_R.

@Matt I hope it will start. I think there it is my right place.

Matt Эллен

Somewhere you can make a good contribution, eh?

KitFox

@MattЭллен Hiya.

Ohai @Carlo.

Carlo_R.

21:46

@Kit Hello - Congratulations for your election

KitFox

Thank you.

I was very surprised to win.

I thought Matt had me beat for sure.

What brings you back here?

Matt Эллен

heh. I didn't get close, in the end!

KitFox

Did you decide to give us another try?

Carlo_R.

@kit this night I have time and I feel me only.

KitFox

Oh, I see. Nostalgia, eh?

Robusto

21:48

Hey, Kit ... feel like a refugee?

Carlo_R.

@kit yes

KitFox

You don't, have, to live like a refugee...don't have to live like a refugee...

Great. Now I've a Tom Petty song in my head.

Carlo_R.

@robusto hello we have had some friction, but - I know - you are the best

Robusto

@KitFox You don't have to ... feel like a refugee.

KitFox

I'm gonna dance down at the Zombie Zoo now.

Oh, I gotta go. Gotta feed the boys!

Laterz!

Carlo_R.

21:53

@Kit there is a place in Italy called "Laterza"

KitFox

Haha. Well, I don't have time to fly there tonight.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox CU

Carlo_R.

@Matt - What is the future of ELU? I noticed a lot of silly question last period. Are still there interesting questions to ask?

Matt Эллен

somewhere someone will think of them. but we always have simplistic and off topic questions. That's the majority of questions people have. We're doing fine. I tink we'd be doing better if the English language learner's SE got going.

simchona

We got a lot of bad questions from one user in particular, who's no longer in good standing.

Mitch

21:59

@simchona: I was particularly entertained by this:

"The problem I have with this question is that the author is probably the best person to answer it.

P.S. Do you sing Folk songs? "

Carlo_R.

@sim are you referring to "Nortons"?

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…