English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

00:07

@Cerberus Which words are you objecting to? To me it sounds like the (un)natural pronunciations of classical vocalists everywhere. It's how one sounds when one has opened one's trachea and is using it as a sounding chamber. The syllables are all fatter and rounder than one would produce in normal speech or popular music.

Robusto

00:18

@RegDwigнt Nice. It sounds like you've been working harder and better. Lots of nice little treats for the ear in there.

Robusto

00:32

The little tricks you do to keep away from resolving to the tonic are very tinkling to my ear.

I especially enjoyed the part starting at ~42 where you go, if I understand the progression correctly, from D7 to D7sus6 resolving to C7 to Csus6 back to D7, and then when you arrive at G minor it doesn't even feel like a resolution, just another step along the way.

Very nice. Is there a way to download that as a PDF so I could print it out and play (and play with) it a little? I feel like adding a little shameless rubato.

Cerberus

02:16

@Robusto She uses a 'throat' R in some places where I suspect it isn't warranted (that is, it sounded odd to me). Even once at the beginning of a syllable, Tritt I think.

And she pronounced Gefährte as though it had no Umlaut, I think. And she seemed to pronounce some schwas as /ɛ/, if I remember correctly.

I mean, she gets most things right by far. She gets the ü right, for example.

But e.g. Ian Bostridge does it better, also a native speaker of English.

Even so, I think I prefer her performance!

Schubert: 'Winterreise' - Ian Bostridge - Live concert HD

►

tchrist

> Let full gratitude now prompt the tear
Which erst did sorrow force to flow.

Cerberus

Better.

@RegDwigнt Will listen!

tchrist

02:56

Mister Yoda is silly.

> I'm swapping something, but I'm not sure what or why. Any diagnoses or description so I can rectify this would be appreciated!

The idea that a native speaker need rectify anything in these constructions being purely suppository, you may safely put it behind you with no harm done. :) — tchrist ♦ 1 min ago

CowperKettle

03:09

The connectome of the central complex of a fruit fly - 26 Oct 2021

Cerberus

@tchrist Well, they could be improved upon, could they not?

tchrist

03:25

@Cerberus Sure, but they aren't wrong.

Cerberus

@tchrist Not wrong as in soloecisms, no.

CowperKettle

04:23

Russian breakfast

Cerberus

@CowperKettle I like!

What's in the pan, exactly?

CowperKettle

@Cerberus Looks like some meat or pork fat

Or maybe potatoes?

I'm on a low-fat diet, so it's not my picture ))

Instead, it’s hoped that by adding folic acid to flour and therefore bread products will help avoid around 200 neural tube defects a year – around 20 percent of the annual UK total.

The UK will now fortify flour with B9

The human brain can't properly process upside-down faces

CowperKettle

05:00

> FDA committee votes in favor of granting emergency use authorization for Pfizer's Covid-19 vaccine in children ages 5 to 11

CowperKettle

08:22

If not for Putin's help, who transfers money taken out of Russians' pockets to his friend Lukashekno, the Belarusian dictator would have been dangling in the noose already.

They are like Hitler and Mussolini, two murderers helping each other out.

Matt E. Эллен

@CowperKettle now you've said that I can see the mouth and eyes are upside down

or right way up

CowperKettle

08:53

> Allowing Nord Stream 2 to pump Russian gas to Germany will not threaten supplies to the European Union, the German Economy Ministry said on Tuesday, clearing a major hurdle for the disputed pipeline. reuters.com/business/energy/…

Europe. Appeasing murderous dictators since forever.

Bad Chad

09:18

heyo

CowperKettle

09:57

A squirrel saw me jogging

CowperKettle

10:57

Word of the day: Epicurian Swerve

> Epicurus deviated from Democritus by proposing the idea of atomic "swerve", which holds that atoms may deviate from their expected course, thus permitting humans to possess free will in an otherwise deterministic universe.

Mitch

@M.A.R. haha. just messing with you. -Everybody- has a fetish for their own initials/name/etc.

CowperKettle

Based on this, companies should create brand names that sound like the most common names.

Like Thomson

Or Smith

Word of the minute: hylozoism (the philosophical point of view that matter is in some sense alive)

Russian journalist Alexey Kovalyov was reading a Telegram channel about the Universe and space, and came across a totally tin-foil-hat post against vaccination, inviting readers over to channel maintained by "scientist Olga Chetverikova"

Another jounralist, Ilya Klishin, wrote that Olga Chetverikova was one of his university teachers. She taught Western Culture, and besides was expatiating on "masons" and telling that "CIA handed over a force crystal to The Beatles, after which this rock group started worshipping Satan".

She was a university teacher at MGIMO, one of the most hard-to-enroll and prestigious universities of Russia. It's a foreign affairs university that produces international diplomatic workers.

I remember some weird university teachers too.

CowperKettle

11:59

Thankfully, Liubov Sobol is in the West, she fled Russia.

Mr. Prigozhin is a criminal who did time in the USSR for gang activity.

He is a close friend of Putin, who made him into a billionaire on state-funded contracts.

Prigozhin tried to kill Liubov Sobol's husband.

In the photo, Prigozhin is first from the left

SmokeDetector

15:06

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body (95): Could you help me find the main idea of this paragraph? by user437263 on english.SE

Robusto

17:48

> If you look like your passport photo, you're too ill to travel.

Cerberus

Fair point.

Mitch

Where does the modern English word initial 'p' come from?

I'm trying to answer a 'why this one word can't be derived from this other one' just because I feel like it.

and I think all word initial 'p' in English came from a Romance borrowing.

Is that right?

Cerberus

Why would you think that?

Mitch

I thought I could spit out a whole bunch of such pairs proving myself right but for some reason can't

@Cerberus because word inital p in PIE turns into f- in Germanic

Cerberus

The pot calls the kettle pink.

Mitch

17:59

and also examples

platus -> plate

pater -> paternal (that'a bit... invented)

Cerberus

@Mitch That doesn't mean Germanic couldn't have redeveloped its own p's later?

Mitch

pirra -> pear

@Cerberus True, but I just can't come up with p words to prove wrong, or to support likelihood

pot comes from Old French etymonline.com/word/pot

presse (OF) -> press

pepper, poor, people all romance

Cerberus

@Mitch Noted!

How about pick?

Mitch

pull put are germanic but etymonline doesn't give anything before... but still that should shut me up for the moment

but I won't let it

Cerberus

Pack?

Mitch

18:05

@Cerberus germanic

Cerberus

Pock?

Peck?

Puck?

Pit "seed"?

Mitch

pin is germanic (and comes from p- in PIE so that's weird)

germanic

Cerberus

@Mitch Did this always happen?

Are you sure?

Mitch

@Cerberus I thought that was a rule (pater -> father), but maybe it has context rules

Matt E. Эллен

@Cerberus that one is from Old English and cognate with Old Icelandic!

Cerberus

18:09

@Mitch Pin could be from Latin pinna/penna "feather".

Mitch

@Cerberus From the couple examples it can't be context free (because sometimes it goes to f sometimes to p)

Cerberus

@Mitch I don't know.

@MattE.Эллен Voilà!

Mitch

> pin (n.)
late Old English pinn "peg or bolt of wood or metal used to hold things in place or fasten them together," from Proto-Germanic *penn- "jutting point or peak" (source also of Old Saxon pin "peg," Old Norse pinni "peg, tack," Middle Dutch pin "pin, peg," Old High German pfinn, German Pinne "pin, tack") __from Latin pinna__

"from latin pinna"

Cerberus

Well, my dictionary says "maybe from Latin".

And I think it is better than what Etymonline uses as its source.

Mitch

so lots of borrowings into germanic from latin back in ...well... before the West Germanic split, or borrowed into each independently

Cerberus

18:11

> Wrsch. verwant met: Oudiers benn ‘piek, hoorn’; Welsh ban ‘piek, punt’; < pie. *bend- ‘uitstekende punt’ (IEW 96). Mogelijk was de grondbetekenis ‘piek, punt’ (FvW, BDE, IEW); er zou dan verband kunnen bestaan met → pink ‘kleine vinger’.

Een andere mogelijkheid is dat het woord is ontleend aan Latijn penna, pinna ‘veer, pijl, tinne, vin’, zie → pen (Toll., Kluge). In het eerste geval heeft het woord later wel betekenissen van Latijn penna ontleend, en ook de nevenvorm pen zal onder invloed van het Latijn zijn ontstaan.

Mitch

@Cerberus etymonline gets most of its stuff from OED, but it is never clear on when so and when not.

Cerberus

Yeah, and the OED often doesn't go back to Proto-Indo-European, and I think it may be outdated.

Robusto

@Cerberus Yeah, pen- in Latin is the obvious cognate.

Cerberus

Yes, pen certainly.

But pin is uncertain.

Mitch

so at least the first part of 'pig' could have come from a weird borrowing of 'pinguedo'

Cerberus

18:13

Ah!

Mitch

now the 'ng' part

Cerberus

What the why you asked.

Has the question been reopened yet?

Mitch

@Cerberus Yeah it's open now

so. 'pinguo' in latin became penguo then maybe ... peigne in OF the paint in English.

so the latin would have to be borrowed more directly, not through French

Matt E. Эллен

pig comes from penguin? that's an evolutionary branch I did not expect.

Mitch

so if pinguedo was borrowed in say the 9th c, would their be a sound change in English from -ng to -g?

@MattE.Эллен You see how round Penguins are?

I think my. point is made.

There's no sound change in Old English from word final -ng (velar nasal + velar stop if you really want it) to -g or -gge.

I state that without knowing anything.

wait

Matt E. Эллен

18:20

@Mitch could have been Peppa Pingu in another universe

Mitch

word final -g would have turned into -y before 1066

@MattE.Эллен How do. you know that we're not the other universe?

Cerberus

@Mitch +1!oneone

Mitch

are there any word final -ng in OE, and if so, what became of them in ME?

Cerberus

@Mitch De Vaan is uncertain about the etymology of pinguis.

Mitch

@Cerberus from before Latin?

Robusto

18:21

@Mitch And peignoir in French?

Cerberus

Philippa says big is possibly from a (non-Indo-European) substrate language.

Mitch

@Robusto yes

Cerberus

@Mitch Yes.

@Robusto Maybe from piger?

Mitch

@Cerberus big is a weird word in English

Robusto

And where does penguin fit into all of this?

There's also Welsh pen (head) as in Uther Pendragon.

Mitch

18:23

criminy... I gotta run... please solve this for me while I'm gone. Also can you do P != NP? later dudes and dudettes.

Robusto

That is settled science. P most definitely != NP. What can be constructed can be destructed.

But you may need a lot of CPU cycles and maybe some clever thinking as well.

Cerberus

@Robusto Peignoir seems to be from Latin pecten "comb".

Robusto

Weird.

Cerberus

Apparently, something one wore when combing one's hair, or something.

The French etymological dictionary is a bit hard to use.

Robusto

Hmm, ELU just told me I earned +3 rep points. Which is a very odd number.

I get that there's a downvote in there, but no accepted answers for the last epoch.

The arithmetic used here is a mystery to me.

Mitch

18:31

goddamit I was out and then I'm pulled right back in

Robusto

You and Michael Corleone.

Matt E. Эллен

NP is the Roman form of P, and evolved during the Roman occupation of Greece, replacing the previous use of NP as the Etruscan god Satre

Mitch

@Robusto that does seem a little ... off

Matt E. Эллен

it would correspond with 3 un-downvotes by you, or 1 un-downvote by you and 1 un-downvote on a post of yours

Cerberus

Or one vote for you and seven votes you cast against others.

Matt E. Эллен

18:35

so very peculiar

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен That's pretty good... you should see this thread...english.stackexchange.com/questions/365716/…

Matt E. Эллен

@Cerberus oh, yes, I hadn't thought of that

Robusto

@MattE.Эллен I haven't downvoted or undownvoted for months.

Cerberus

Or or...

Or a user was deleted who had collected three down-votes by you.

Robusto

Haha. Third time's the charm?

If I'd only known that when I was active on this site.

Mitch

18:36

or a question of yours upvoted and one downvote on you (or two downvotes by you)

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch rofl. are you "referring the triumvirate recognition"?

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен danged if I know.

I was using words. what more do you want?

Matt E. Эллен

it is a great favour you do us, indeed

Robusto

@Mitch That's your mistake right there. You can point to it.

Mitch

you can't yet type whistle language so...

Robusto

18:40

Or, as Hamlet said: "Words. Words. Words."

Mitch

@Robusto OK game on

Here let me tell you a story

Pretty good huh?

Robusto

@Mitch Can it be about The Beverly Hillbillies?

Mitch

It was short but it really packs.a lot into very little

Amal K

Hello. New here. I actually had this single-word-request question (academia.stackexchange.com/questions/177191) but I ended up posting it on Academia thinking it deals with academics and it got closed. Can someone help?

Mitch

@Robusto haha that's someone else's story

Robusto

18:42

The Beverly Hillbillies Opening and Closing Theme 1962 - 1971 HD

►

They already told it. You missed your chance.

Mitch

They told it much better

also in song

Robusto

How can you compete with that?

Matt E. Эллен

@AmalK naming things is hard, and very subjective :D What is wrong with "Program Manager"?

The best people to talk to about this are the business analysts or project managers who are specifying the work. you should have a shared vocabulary within the project, so that it can be passed on when you move on from it

Amal K

@MattE.Эллен ikr, naming is hard! "/programmanager/" looks a bit ugly as a URL segment so was looking for something short and sweet 😅

Matt E. Эллен

maybe, but URLs aren't really for people any more, just look at Youtube video URLs. The video ids are horrendous!

that said, you could shorten it to progman

Robusto

18:51

Rhymes with "frogman" ...

I've been looking for just such a rhyme.

Matt E. Эллен

:D

Pink Floyd was prog, man

Amal K

@MattE.Эллен " Have to agree, ugly URLs don't matter, it's just my OCD XD. Also, "progman" sounds pretty cool.

Robusto

@MattE.Эллен Does a band ever really stop being prog?

Matt E. Эллен

@Robusto good point

@AmalK it's yours! royalty free ;)

Amal K

@MattE.Эллен It's so good I might end up naming the app progman ;)

Matt E. Эллен

19:00

lol

Robusto

@AmalK BTW, you can thank Matt by clicking Like and Subscribe, and ring that notification bell.

Matt E. Эллен

rofl

Amal K

@Robusto I wish StackExchange had these buttons. The best I can do is add them through Inspect Element and click them! ;) Thanks @MattE.Эллен!

Matt E. Эллен

no problem!

Mitch

20:55

@Robusto That guy man. He could really talk.

CowperKettle

23:57

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…