English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

> Much of this research is about how beginning readers acquire basic skills and about how the ability to comprehend different kinds of texts, for different purposes, develops in later grades.

This is pretty much what she's talking about.

RegDwight АΑA

Okay so she does mean another class.

KitFox

She's using a text with some substituted letters as an exercise and having the members discuss how they decoded the text.

tchrist

“No thanks, dear,” said the dentist, “I’ve just spent all day inside people’s mouths, and I’m just not up for it.” “Now you know why I didn’t marry a gynecologist.”

Told to me by my dentist-neighbor, while I was sitting in his chair the other day.

@KitFox So it’s like reading mail over a noisy modem.

KitFox

Sorta.

tchrist

2:17 PM

@MattЭллен Whoops, sorry to bump into you.

Matt Эллен

with the edit thing? no worries :D

I was just approving someone else's

Oh ok.

and improving

Good thing, that.

2

Q: "Comparing" vs "A comparison of"

A professor criticized the language in a presentation. In particular he said that English preferred a noun phrase such as "a comparison of" to a gerund such as "comparing". For reference the entire sentence follows. Comparing prominent symptoms in drug addiction with models of aberrant lear...

two bad tags in one.

all it needs is words to complete the trifecta

tchrist

2:22 PM

What, you prefer -ing-forms?

j/k

ΜετάEd

Maybe I should look at tag editing.

JSBձոգչ

no, of course i prefer present-active-participials

tchrist

Maybe so.

ΜετάEd

I run out of downvotes long before I'm ready to quit.

RegDwight АΑA

How about we make grammar, usage, and words synonyms of grammar-usage-words. Then there can only be one.

tchrist

2:23 PM

@JSBձոգչ I think those survive only in the remote islands off the coast of New Zealand.

ΜετάEd

Let's do that with all the tags.

Then we only need one tag.

RegDwight АΑA

I proposed that earlier today.

JSBձոգչ

37 mins ago, by RegDwight АΑA

@JSBձոգչ Why wait? I can make every tag a synonym of jsb-is-da-man right now.

ΜετάEd

@JSBձոգչ Then it's an idea whose time has come.

tchrist

and gone with the wind.

RegDwight АΑA

2:25 PM

The answers on ELU, my friend, are blowing in the wind.

JSBձոգչ

out of delete votes for the day... le sigh

Robusto

What do you guys think: can something be complicated and yet straightforward?

I'm thinking you could have a straightforward process with many steps, perhaps, but nothing tricky about them?

RegDwight АΑA

Complex != complicated, yes.

JSBձոգչ

closed as not constructive

Robusto

You're out of delete votes, so suck it.

RegDwight АΑA

2:28 PM

I still have some control and alt votes left.

JSBձոգչ

as do i

Robusto

sigh So the one time I ask the assembled gray eminences what they think about usage and meaning in this chat, all I get is a runaround. Thank you.

I will know not to try that shit again.

RegDwight АΑA

I thought I answered?

JSBձոգչ

fortunately we have a site where people ask such questions all day

RegDwight АΑA

2 mins ago, by RegDwight АΑA

Complex != complicated, yes.

JSBձոգչ

2:30 PM

honestly now: i would be confused to see something described as both complicated and straightforward

Robusto

I don't want to waste time dealing with that crap on ELU. This is a casual chat question.

JSBձոգչ

for your example, i would describe the procedure as "lengthly but straightforward"

Robusto

@JSBձոգչ Hence my quandary: I am thinking of describing a complicated coding process that is intricate and yet containing no unknowns versus one that is potentially complicated by factors outside my ken or control.

The former is something that just needs to be woodshedded. The latter is something for which no estimate of time could be given.

ΜετάEd

@Robusto In the wrong direction. In my family, we leave shits.

Robusto

@ΜετάEd You are late to the party. That shit has sailed.

JSBձոգչ

2:33 PM

@Robusto how about "complex but well-understood"

ΜετάEd

@Robusto Consider me always late to the party.

RegDwight АΑA

3 hours ago, by RegDwight АΑA

I am salon, I am salon, home again 'cross the sea.

ΜετάEd

Or consider me early to the next party.

RegDwight АΑA

@JSBձոգչ see, now even JSB steals my words.

Robusto

@JSBձոգչ Yes. Or maybe complex but routine.

ΜετάEd

2:34 PM

Nevertheless, leave a shit.

tchrist

@Robusto That’s because we’re not gray.

Robusto

Sorry, I misspelled gay.

RegDwight АΑA

@ΜετάEd next party? What is the difference between "next party" and "this party"?

tchrist

Speak for yourself.

ΜετάEd

@RegDwightАΑA Depends on how weak this party is.

Robusto

2:35 PM

Gah, stand-up beckons. AFK.

JSBձոգչ

"this party" is the one you're not invited to. "next party" is the one you're also not invited to.

RegDwight АΑA

@ΜετάEd this party is always right in the middle of the weak.

@JSBձոգչ you sure? Go interview some people on the street.

ΜετάEd

@RegDwightАΑA End the weak, I say.

RegDwight АΑA

Wait. JSB doesn't get references. He wasn't here.

tchrist

single-word-requests “What do you call it when the only way you seem to be able taste your macaroni-and-cheese is by dumping a can of tomatoes-and-diced-habaneros into it?”

@RegDwightАΑA That needn’t stop him.

RegDwight АΑA

2:37 PM

@tchrist cooking disability.

tchrist

The deaf cannot hear and the blind cannot see; but what then shall we call those with gustatory disabilities?

cornbread ninja

@tchrist flavorless. flavor-impaired.

tchrist

Unsavory.

JSBձոգչ

@RegDwightАΑA i only get dereferences, and close them as general reference

cornbread ninja

@tchrist yes.

JSBձոգչ

2:38 PM

@tchrist i call it "buy some better macaroni and cheese"

RegDwight АΑA

@tchrist the lame hear and the deaf walk; His Kingdom is near!

tchrist

@RegDwight: Does that imply the mods are agreed ELU should always have both for any tag where US/UK spelling differs? — FumbleFingers 5 mins ago

Nothing like being cornered.

JSBձոգչ

yeesh. it took the test site something like 3 minutes to emit a frikking 302

ΜετάEd

@tchrist The tasteless, obviously.

tchrist

@JSBձոգչ Stuttering its output, I see.

Welcome, IVA!

JSBձոգչ

2:43 PM

i suppose this is what i get for running the site in an emulator on a VM that's also busy with a multithreaded build

tchrist

Ayup.

We’re kinda informatically intense in here of late. Where now the unprogrammers?

RegDwight АΑA

@tchrist well duh. I waited long enough for an answer. Though even now he's basically posted what I said earlier today.

Robusto

On further review, I think I'll forego using "complicated" or "complex" or even "intricate" in favor of "lengthy": see notes on synonyms for complex.

tchrist

@RegDwightАΑA He’s more than a mite contrarianista. Season with salt. And delousing spray.

Robusto

But what if it's spelled differently from how they would write it? — Robusto 12 secs ago

tchrist

2:52 PM

@Robusto O Lord Almighty, how can I resist doing the ironing this morning???

RegDwight АΑA

@FumbleFingers it merely means that after seeing nine upvotes, no downvotes, and no answers on what was a rather straightforward, sensible, and reversible request, one mod fulfilled it, and only it, while also posting a comment in chat that was more than just similar in spirit to what you proceeded to post as your answer, which said mod in turn proceeded to upvote. — RegDwight АΑA 26 secs ago

And now I gotta run.

Lators.

tchrist

Gators.

Robusto

@tchrist I'll handle the ironying while you're gone.

tchrist

@Robusto M’sir, these they are not notes inégales that you are playing.

Robusto

@tchrist Just looking for a pas de adieu since you seem to be leaving.

tchrist

3:00 PM

No I am ironing.

On verra.

Robusto

Damn. And I had already steeled myself for your departure.

cornbread ninja

@Robusto No need to get all steamed up.

Robusto

Hey, you can't spell steamed without team. I blame everyone here.

cornbread ninja

starches

Robusto

starches => crash set => the crass => ass retch

cornbread ninja

3:06 PM

scratches ass retch

tchrist

Ironing complete:

But what if it's spelled differently from how they would write it? — Robusto 16 mins ago

cornbread ninja

howdy @sim!

tchrist

looks about for an ass-wrench

cornbread ninja

@tchrist look by the inside calipers.

Robusto

@tchrist He didn't take the bait. Or maybe he's unconscious.

tchrist

3:08 PM

@Robusto It’s only been a minute. Give ’em time.

Oh wait, you missed mine, didn’t you?

Check the edit history.

Note how careful I was to retain your own ironing job.

Perhaps he shan’t see the trees for the forest.

Robusto

Sir, you are an editor provocateur!

tchrist

bows flame-boy-antly

cornbread ninja

gives wedgie

runs

tchrist

Je ne que lui provoque.

cornbread ninja

j'accuse!

tchrist

3:12 PM

You aren’t Louie.

cornbread ninja

oh, baby / we gotta go

tchrist

I too must like a tree make.

cornbread ninja

makes like a flag @tchrist

ΜετάEd

Fluttering?

cornbread ninja

@ΜετάEd ha! waving.

ΜετάEd

3:27 PM

Burning?

Flaming?

cornbread ninja

tattering.

@ΜετάEd How you this morning?

ΜετάEd

I'm tired of complaining.

:-)

cornbread ninja

:D

I've a headache, but I'm working to remove it.

punches 'it is what it is'

cornbread ninja

3:59 PM

wonders where @KitFox is

ΜετάEd

4:29 PM

Qapla'

tchrist

This gentleman does seem to ask a reasonable question:

2

Q: How can I improve a question?

I recently asked a question here that seemed to fit the site, so I was surprised when I saw that it was quickly downvoted. Questions relating to spelling and punctuation are clearly encouraged in the FAQ The question doesn't fall into one of the disallowed categories in the FAQ A similar questi...

discussion appropriate-questions questions

Matt Эллен

I looked in wikipedia

> disjuncts: these make comments on the meaning of the rest of the sentence. e.g: Surprisingly, he passed all of his exams.

tchrist

@cornbreadninja Gotcha.

Matt Эллен

so, it could be a disjunct adverbial

I don't know why excitement has anything to do with semicolons

cornbread ninja

semicolonics are administered to the navel.

Matt Эллен

4:34 PM

:D

cornbread ninja

@MattЭллен how was the saloon? I'm going to one myself later today.

tchrist

@MattЭллен "No you cannot do that", "Surprisingly you cannot do that", "Tomorrow you cannot do that". Perhaps it’s just me tell me if otherwise but I sorta feel like those need commas at the start you know where it has a capitalized adverb but just a space after meaning No Suprisingly Tomorrow what do you think?

Matt Эллен

@cornbreadninja they made it seem a lot like my office

cornbread ninja

@MattЭллен eeesh. Wait, is that good or bad?

tchrist

But a semicolon does something else, and cannot be applied nilly-willy. It is just a lazy full stop, eh?

Matt Эллен

4:36 PM

@cornbreadninja well, I wasn't in a saloon, sadly, I was working. I would prefer to have been drinking wiskey

tchrist

So it answers a question. Then the next independent clause begins right after the semicolon, as though it had been a real full stop.

cornbread ninja

@MattЭллен oh, I thought you were getting a haircut or having your beard deunified.

@tchrist it's always been my understanding that a semicolon separates two closely related independent clauses.

Matt Эллен

@tchrist yeah, it needs a comma

@tchrist ok. Does this have anything to do with being happy or excited?

ΜετάEd

0

A: How can I improve a question?

Like the other SE sites, English.SE “is dedicated to serving experts in a specific field”.¹ You are likely to see very basic questions downvoted and closed. For example, if your question can be answered by consulting a general reference, it's a basic question. General references are inadequate ...

cornbread ninja

stabs headache

ΜετάEd

4:41 PM

@tchrist.

cornbread ninja

@ΜετάEd +1 to you, sir.

ΜετάEd

@cornbreadninja Ty. What the heck is a cornbread ninja, anyway.

Robusto

HO NOES! E-bay is banning sales of spells and hexes! Now where will we be able to find those?

cornbread ninja

@Robusto amazon, next to the U-205.

Robusto

Thanks. curses E-bay with brand-new Amazon spell

cornbread ninja

4:45 PM

@ΜετάEd my origin story is in here someres. searches

Matt Эллен

@Robusto that will hit the MMORPG market hard. I on the otherhand was hoping to buy advice from Ebay

Robusto

@MattЭллен I can sell you black-market advice, cheap.

cornbread ninja

Aug 11 at 3:47, by cornbread ninja

The story of my name:

Robusto

Tween!

cornbread ninja

Twixt.

Robusto

4:48 PM

Aww, it was just an after-tween. A bookend. A coda.

cornbread ninja

Back matter!

Robusto

Dark matter!

ΜετάEd

@cornbreadninja I'll buy that.

Robusto

Hey, I wonder if you can still buy dark matter on Ebay.

ΜετάEd

Now I just have to decide what to be a ninja of.

Matt Эллен

4:49 PM

This is a story all about how my eating habits gave me my name
So why don't you take a minute and sit right there and I'll you about how I became cornbread ninja

cornbread ninja

@ΜετάEd I never meta ninja I didn't like.

Robusto

@MattЭллен Don't you need a guitar for that story?

ΜετάEd

@Robusto I think all the people currently selling spells can just switch to selling pieces of paper with spells written on them.

@Robusto Ooh! A song! A song!

cornbread ninja

@MattЭллен sits on throne as cornbread ninja of EL&U

Matt Эллен

@Robusto I'd need a beat box

ΜετάEd

4:51 PM

@MattЭллен Eeew.

Robusto

@MattЭллен You might make more money with a shine box.

Matt Эллен

porbably

cornbread ninja

@Robusto you can spit your way through either

Robusto

Instructions for manly shine-box making: artofmanliness.com/2012/06/18/how-to-make-a-shoe-shine-box

tchrist

@cornbreadninja Deunified via the customary bipartitioning, or the more courageous tripartite forking beardlings?

cornbread ninja

4:52 PM

@tchrist the first, if my sources are to be believed.

Matt Эллен

aye, but the unification continues.

cornbread ninja

Matt Ellen, UK

414 1 5

culture site-definition science allowed-questions closing

tchrist

I see.

ΜετάEd

@Robusto Does that come with shinola?

tchrist

@Robusto meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/2972/…

Robusto

4:55 PM

@ΜετάEd Can you tell the difference between that and shit?

cornbread ninja

@ΜετάEd Maynard from Tool has a wine called Shinola.

tchrist

He still isn’t paying attention.

cornbread ninja

@Robusto so that wasn't an expression coined by my father?

ΜετάEd

@Robusto No. I don't know shinola. I only know my shit.

Robusto

@cornbreadninja I dunno. Maybe it was. How old is your father?

@ΜετάEd Well, then yes, it comes with shinola.

ΜετάEd

4:56 PM

@Robusto Thanks for that.

Robusto

Gotta run. Mahlzeit.

tchrist

@tchrist: I don't want to make a big issue of it, but I've reverted your recent edit to my answer text. And in future I'd rather you didn't arbitrarily change all my Br. Eng. spellings to Am. Eng. — FumbleFingers 7 mins ago

Ok, now it expands. Weird.

cornbread ninja

15 hours ago, by cornbread ninja

@tchrist were he living, my dad would be (does math) 77 this year.

tchrist

@ΜετάEd Cheers!

cornbread ninja

@Mahnax!

KitFox

5:16 PM

I'm right here @cornbread.

tchrist

@ΜετάEd Are you really keying in the curly quotes by codepoint number every time, or do you have shortcuts setup?

ΜετάEd

I use a five key shortcut.

Remember, I'm in Bill Gates' world.

tchrist

There are alternate keyboard config, supposedly, that make that easier.

You should be able to get it down to two.

But I haven't figured out how.

ΜετάEd

There are, but I'm not aware of one that provides all those lovely typographical characters.

KitFox

What was that thing about Bill Gates providing toilets to children?

ΜετάEd

5:21 PM

The alt keyboard I use a lot is the "United States-International". Gives me a lot of two-key accents and so on.

cornbread ninja

@KitFox feels better, foxier

tchrist

For example, I do Option-[ for “ and Option-{ for ”.

And Opt-] for ‘ and Opt-} for ’.

KitFox

Wow that's weird.

Totally against HUI protocols.

tchrist

But it isn’t many keystrokes, and with a bit of practice you can reach for them while “typing”.

H?

ΜετάEd

@tchrist Maybe you can talk my employer into trashing the PCs and buying Macs. Until then I am SOL.

tchrist

5:22 PM

It would make more sense if it were on the quote keys themselves.

Really? This isn't configurable?

ΜετάEd

@KitFox I don't know what kids would do with toilets.

tchrist

Weird.

KitFox

It would make more sense if you had opens matched with opens and closeds matched with closeds.

cornbread ninja

@ΜετάEd first read that as SQL.

tchrist

My Opt-' is æ and my Opt-" makes Æ. Way weird, that one.

It’s too bad SE can’t auto-curly, but it really can’t.

KitFox

5:23 PM

That makes even less sense.

cornbread ninja

(((((IN STEREO)))))

KitFox

Why do you have such a crazy setup?

Mahnax

@cornbreadninja Hi!

Matt Эллен

@cornbreadninja head asplode

tchrist

Even the title thing that does doubles doesn't do ‘a single’s conversion’ right.

ΜετάEd

5:24 PM

I key AltGr+zZ for æÆ.

tchrist

Opt-z is Ω, fittingly.

Opt-Z is ¸, oddly.

cornbread ninja

@Mahnax howzit?

ΜετάEd

@cornbreadninja Then the question becomes what am the SQL of?

tchrist

Opt-c is ç, Opt-C is Ç.

cornbread ninja

@MattЭллен sighs, gets mop

@ΜετάEd Main Ed?

Mahnax

5:25 PM

@cornbreadninja Good! Apparently I'm going to an amusement-park type thing today with my family.

ΜετάEd

My AltGr key gives me » quotes but not ” quotes.

cornbread ninja

@Mahnax ooh! Which one? A Six Flags?

It would be a lovely day for that here.

Mahnax

@cornbreadninja Nah, it's just a little one.

cornbread ninja

@Mahnax even better.

Hopefully above traveling carnival standards.

Mahnax

Mostly for kids, but I'm going along to be a good sport and to have some fun.

@cornbreadninja It's a successful establishment, so I would think so.

cornbread ninja

5:28 PM

@Mahnax eat a funnel cake for me, or a cotton candy. But no caramel apples until my braces are off.

JSBձոգչ

now i'm also out of close votes. what will i do with the rest of my day?

Matt Эллен

@JSBձոգչ down vote!

cornbread ninja

@MattЭллен go close vote on Writers!

Mahnax

@cornbreadninja I'll do my best.

Matt Эллен

I don't have close votes on writers. I could flag, but I don't know what I'm going, really

Mahnax

5:29 PM

Although I cannot promise cotton candy because I find it far too sweet.

cornbread ninja

@MattЭллен I got to flag some NS on Writers.

@Mahnax Fair enough.

KitFox

Hey, people interested in the blog! Come to the Blog Room please!?!

EL&U Blog

Discussion for the EL&U Blog. For more info see meta.english.s...

I was going to do invites, but I might as well just post it.

JSBձոգչ

LOL

programmerryangosling.tumblr.com

3

KitFox

Oh, my, FUNNY!

Hey, @Jez, want to write a blog post about gender neutral pronouns?

Jez

6:09 PM

lol

i could do

bit random?

KitFox

Well, we're trying to get the blog rolling again.

I seem to recall you are something of an enthusiast about thon.

Jez

i am

KitFox

Come on over to the blog room. We'll take your fingerprints and a bit of blood, and let you spread the word about your favorite pronoun.

EL&U Blog

Discussion for the EL&U Blog. For more info see meta.english.s...

Jez

i'm sure I've asked this before, but what happened about:

18

Q: We’re going to be on the Grammar Girl podcast! What do we want her to say about us?

As I’m sure a lot of you already know, Grammar Girl is a big deal in the online English/Grammar world. I’ve been talking to her about sponsoring a podcast, and as part of the sponsorship we get mentions on the podcast, her newsletter, twitter, and Facebook, along with an ad on the site. This is ...

discussion site-promotion

where is this podcast?

Matt Эллен

6:24 PM

@Jez grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/…

it should really be posted on the meta post

Jez

@MattЭллен hmm, she dealt with the gender-neutral pronoun issue, and even gave "thon" as an example! maybe we dont need to do it on our blog...

Matt Эллен

@Jez of course we do!

Jez

how come? i'll repeat most of what she said :-)

Matt Эллен

It's up to you. You're a different person, you could have an interestingly different take

KitFox

6:42 PM

@Jez Hey, you are passionate about thon. I know you are. Go, rant about the injustices done to thon! Rage against the dying of thon!

simchona

@simchona Thank you for informing me of your exchange's absurdy narrow intepretation of what "constructive" is. I will go to find some less unhelpful people somewhere else. — rschwieb 27 secs ago

How could I have handled it better?

cornbread ninja

@simchona not sure.

Jez

@KitFox i'll try :-)

user19161

@JSBձոգչ Have you turned from Daniel Craig to Ryan Gosling?

JSBձոգչ

no, i'm just posting his picture(s)

tchrist

6:58 PM

So very already-done:

0

Q: Quotation marks, parenthesis and period...all at the end of a sentence. How do you deal with this?

I have never seen this particular issue addressed and I looked around and couldn't see anything. Please, guys, if you close this thread, would you at least direct me to any thread that SPECIFICALLY addresses this? In a sentence in which we have this scenario: quotation marks, period and closing ...