English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

CowperKettle

17:00

Europe voted for sanctions against Putin's cronies. Nice. Although I doubt the sanctions will hit them hard.

Robusto

@CowperKettle Money talks louder than sanctions, unfortunately.

My gift from Wikipedia for donating last year. ^

Imagine the trillions of pixels the photographer had to burn to get that shot.

Or the hours spent just trying to get that single 1/5000 of a second.

Cerberus

Cute.

Wouldn't he just set up a camera and take a picture ten times a second?

Robusto

Dunno.

Cerberus

@CowperKettle Why?

I believe half of London is owned by Russian oligarchs?

Robusto

@Cerberus But I don't know how he could expect to see those birds in that place in that pose. With that focus, ISO, f-stop, and shutter speed.

Matt E. Эллен

17:12

@Cerberus sadly no longer part of the EU

Cerberus

@Robusto Can't he set those things up with a camera pointed at a bird's nest?

@MattE.Эллен Oh, I forgot.

Robusto

@Cerberus That's not a nest.

Cerberus

Hmm now that you mention it, it looks too flimsy.

Perhaps the birds are stuffed.

Robusto

I've gone out with a bird photographer before. They stalk birds like a hunter would, and it takes them hours sometimes even to get a shot, much less a good one.

Those birds aren't stuffed.

Matt E. Эллен

My girlfriend is still angry with me for the time I "made" her miss a picture of a bittern.

Mitch

17:16

You monster

Robusto

Seriously

Matt E. Эллен

Don't give the camera to me, if you don't want me to not understand when you're asking for it back!

Mitch

Dude

Robusto

That's right, blame the victim.

Mitch

You screwed up

I hope you apologized

Matt E. Эллен

17:18

I might have

Mitch

I'm thinking you didn't apologize

Matt E. Эллен

I might have also complained that I didn't know what she wanted

Robusto

Wow. A rookie move.

Mitch

Dude

I

can't even

Just consider yourself lucky

Cerberus

@Robusto Joke!

Matt E. Эллен

17:19

@Mitch considers

Mitch

And reflect

on how you can do better

A better bittern

That's all I came here to do. Thank you and good night!

Robusto

A better bitter batter needs butter.

Matt E. Эллен

good night :þ

Mitch

@Robusto Don't stop there

(also, I'm back)

So

as far as news goes

Robusto

@Mitch I've exhausted my store of b*tter words.

Mitch

17:22

did that guy return the plane?

Matt E. Эллен

to the plane library?

Robusto

I think they kicked him down the stairs and took off.

Mitch

He seemed so angry at the end, but the nice old man lent him the plane.

I was concerned that the other old guy, the angry one, would just sort of keep it

out of spite

@Robusto oh... there's more

Robusto

He will now spend the rest of his days telling anyone who will listen how much he accomplished and how horribly he was wronged. NOBODY accomplished so much or was treated so poorly! And gradually he'll be talking to fewer and fewer people.

Mitch

bidder, bedder, biter, berater. I mean, you could just keep going

@Robusto "Sir, this is a Wendy's"

Robusto

17:25

Or a Denny's.

Or a prison mess hall, hopefully.

Even the Proud Boys have dumped him.

Gigili

What are you talking about?

Vietnamese jokes?

Robusto

@Gigili Someone who left office yesterday on Air Force One, which came back to Washington D. C. empty.

CowperKettle

Ice Girl

Hi guys I have a question

"Are you all packed for your trip" What is the tense of this sentence?

Conrado

@IceGirl Hi

Ice Girl

17:38

@Conrado Hello

tchrist

@IceGirl are is present tense

CowperKettle

> The new COVID-19 variant identified in South Africa can evade the antibodies that attack it in treatments using blood plasma from previously recovered patients, and may reduce the efficacy of the current line of vaccines, scientists said on Wednesday. medscape.com/viewarticle/944427

Conrado

@IceGirl If it were a statement, the sentence would say: "You are all packed for your trip." It means now. That is the present.

Ice Girl

Is it a passive sentence?

Why does the write use 'are' instead of 'do'?

Cerberus

Packed is a past particle or an adjective; you cannot use do with those.

I am Cerberus.

I am friendly.

I am leaving.

I am packed.

Conrado

17:53

@Cerberus Yes, you are packed.

I am friendly too,

sometimes.

In all of these sentences, the subject does or is something. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_voice)

Cerberus

Why, thank you.

@Conrado That is somewhat generic?

Mitch

@Cerberus Where are you going?

Some place nice I hope

Cerberus

To the couch.

You?

Mitch

Hm

Do you really need to pack for that kind of a trip?

@Cerberus Oh me? No I have no special plans

Cerberus

No, but I'm packed anyway.

Mitch

17:59

I mean... I have a couch to go to too

but

Cerberus

A special plan...on a couch...

vikasnautiyal

Hello, can someone help phrase a sentence in a better way.

Cerberus

OK.

Mitch

I'm not going to make a big deal out of it

Cerberus

How modest.

Mitch

17:59

and... meeting

Cerberus

@vikasnautiyal You can ask anything here!

As long as you don't ask specific people you aren't already in a conversation with.

Conrado

@Cerberus Packed with fun facts

Cerberus

But you wouldn't.

@Conrado You're packed as well.

With man.

Are you not?

vikasnautiyal

Okay thanks, can someone help me to rephrase this sentence -

Being the eldest child to working parents, felt special, but it put me in a unique position. The ever-increasing responsibility fostered me to acquire multiple life skills like assertiveness, empathy and cooking at an early stage.

Conrado

@Cerberus Sorry, I didn't realize where that was going

Forgive my false step.

Faheem Mitha

18:04

@vikasnautiyal That's two sentences.

@vikasnautiyal I'd replace "fostered me to acquire" with just "fostered".

vikasnautiyal

Yes they are.

Faheem Mitha

@vikasnautiyal You wrote: "can someone help me to rephrase this sentence."

vikasnautiyal

Yes.

Cerberus

I'd remove the comma after parents.

Faheem Mitha

Maybe "fostered the development of multiple life skills"

@Cerberus Yes, that too.

vikasnautiyal

18:07

Can it be restructured from the begning?

Faheem Mitha

Or "fostered the acquisition of multiple life skills".

Cerberus

By the way, it may not be obvious to all readers why being the eldest child to working parents should give one ever increasing responsibilities. It didn't to me.

Faheem Mitha

@vikasnautiyal The word "unique" is clearly not appropriate here.

vikasnautiyal

Okay, I see.

Faheem Mitha

Maybe "difficult" or "stressful" or similar.

@vikasnautiyal I'm also unclear what's special about being the eldest child.

vikasnautiyal

18:10

@Cerberus did the elder ones not have more responsibility as compared to the younger ones

special maybe in a sense that you are the first one.

@Cerberus, maybe I should do away with the 'ever increasing' part.

@FaheemMitha, I see, unique can also be removed. Thanks

The sentence is too complex, can the complexity be reduced more?

Bohemian relativist

@FaheemMitha being the eldest child can enjoy the most recourse provided by the parents.

Faheem Mitha

@Bohemianrelativist recourse?

The right to compensation?

Mitch

@Cerberus maybe the sentence is explaining that oldest of 2 working parents fostered these skills...because both parents are working?

vikasnautiyal

No its should say the first child that fostered the skills

Mitch

and so the oldest has to take care of the younger ones while the parents are busy?

vikasnautiyal

18:17

Yes.

Bohemian relativist

@FaheemMitha yes, you were born the earliest when your parents have the most recourse to provide you. The youngest has the lest recourse, like my youngest sister, who had to live without my father's recourse when she was in junior high school.

vikasnautiyal

Reposting for reference -

Being the eldest child to working parents, felt special, but it put me in a unique position. The ever-increasing responsibility fostered me to acquire multiple life skills like assertiveness, empathy and cooking at an early stage.

Faheem Mitha

@Bohemianrelativist I don't think that's a correct use of the word.

Mitch

@vikasnautiyal "Being the eldest child of working parents felt special, but it put me in a unique position. The ever-increasing responsibility led me to acquire multiple life skills like assertiveness, empathy, and cooking at an early stage."

Bohemian relativist

I have my father with me until the second year of my MSc studies.

Mitch

18:20

That is my suggestion ( personally would use 'oldest' instead of 'eldest' even in formal language like this.

vikasnautiyal

@Mitch Thanks, sounds good. I am still improving and simplifying it.

Mitch

@vikasnautiyal Others might suggest differently.

(there's no guarantee mine is what fits best for you)

Bohemian relativist

my sister had to depend on school to support her when she was in junior high school, but you know a junior high school wouldn't support good recourse for their students.

vikasnautiyal

I read that eldest is prefered over oldest esp when the comparison is with age

CowperKettle

A slew of arrests in Russia. Top functionaries of Alexey Navalny's Anti-Corruption Foundation have just been detained. Some on the street, some in their homes.

Mitch

18:21

Sure, it works in formal writing.

Bohemian relativist

a person can only be supported economically for education generally when they go to MSc school and further.

before MSc school, the economical recourse students can get from school is generally limited.

vikasnautiyal

I wanted to communicate these facts with that sentence -
The subject has seen a fair share of responsibilities in the early stage of life as
his/her parents were busy with the work and his siblings were too young to take the challenges

Bohemian relativist

if you have no recourse from parents before going to MSc school, it can be very difficult.

vikasnautiyal

And which led him to acquire life skills early.

CowperKettle

@Bohemianrelativist In Russia, studient stipend paid by the state is extremely meagre, and will not allow one to survive.

There are some additional stipends for top-notch students showing the highest marks.

But it's hard to get them, you should study as hell.

Xanne

18:27

A friend of mine was an eldest child. Responsibilities increased with every child, until there were six. At 18 years old, she said she was going to become a nun. They said “Oh, no!” but she said “Oh, yeah!”

CowperKettle

@Xanne She was joking?

My brother had a friend, a girl, who actually became a nun. She got admitted to a monastery near Yekaterinburg. After a year's stint there, she decided to quit. She called him, and he and she together went to buy her some new glintzy shoes.

A happy ending.

Eternal soul sold for shoes.

By the way, today is the 21-st day of the 21-st year of the 21-st century

3

Be sure to make a wish at 21:21

Xanne

No. that’s what she did. She became a nun. And loved it. She rose to positions of considerable responsibility. The dialogue is invented, though.

@CowperKettle This is scary, because by the time we get done carefully rolling out the vaccine and “safely” reopening, the existing immunity may have faded, the vaccine will be ineffective, and we’ll be back at ground zero.

CowperKettle

18:44

@Xanne I hope that the new viral variants will not be as deadly, because a virus is primarily interested in copying itself, not in killing the host.

Cerberus

@vikasnautiyal Not really?

I am the eldest.

@Xanne From what I have heard, it will be easy to adjust the RNA vaccines to various mutations if needed, which would allow for quick reapproval.

And so, even if current vaccines don't work as well against new mutations, it's still not a total disaster.

And it may also be the case that those vaccinated with an older vaccine will still have partial immunity, so they won't get seriously ill.

Mitch

@CowperKettle but

(and I'm not pro virus or anything)

more people die if R (the transmission rate) goes up than if the death rate (of those who get it number of those who die) does

so if you're choosing

and luckily we're not given the choice

if you'd rather have a bigger transmission rate or a bigger dying rate, fewer people die with the bigger dying rate.

the labels are misleading, but that's the math.

Cerberus

19:18

@Mitch Only up to certain limits.

If hardly anybody dies from the virus any more, the aequation shifts.

Xanne

@Mitch That’s gotta depend on the death rate for each variant. If it’s approaching zero . . .

Cerberus

But we'll have to see.

If partial immunity + less deadly virus result in a total death rate for the vaccinated of 0.1%, it will have become the flu.

Because of higher transmission rate, more people will die than from the flu, but not that many more?

Mitch

@Xanne oh. yeah. right. yes it depends on the scale

@Cerberus yes, that's what @Xanne is saying too

Xanne

@Cerberus I hope it gets to be like the flu. But I think it’s going to take five years or so.

Mitch

the flu ain't so great

you need a shot every year

but the medtech works out nicely, you don't have to start from scratch each year

It would be nice to travel again

i wouldn't mind living in a place where there's less fear of armed fascist insurrection

-and- nice weather all year

Xanne

19:34

No it ain’t

Well then what are you doing in Boston?

Cerberus

@Xanne Perhaps not if we're all vaccinated against older variants.

Xanne

Problem is the vaccines may fade with time.

Mitch

@Xanne It's really nice for some of the year

M.A.R.

@CowperKettle I missed it

Xanne

I’ve lived there, Mitch. But what keeps you there? You could become a snowbird . . .

M.A.R.

19:39

@Mitch buy a stairway to heaven

Mitch

@Xanne I feel like I've heard in the past year that there is supposed to be a prototype of a new 'universal' virus vaccine? it doesn't get you to create antibodies against all of the varieties but it does something structural to all virusses themselves? Something like that?

@M.A.R. sometimes words have two meanings

M.A.R.

Your path would lie in creepy wind though

Mitch

@M.A.R. that's very ominous sounding.

M.A.R.

I think that's bydesign

You don't want billionaires to buy a stairway to heaven

Mitch

@Xanne the wine is good but the meat has spoiled

M.A.R.

19:41

Why do you think Musk is trying to build a spaceship to heaven, then

Mitch

what I mean to say is

the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak

I'd -like- to, but one also needs means to do so.

Xanne

Well that’s what we should aim for and hope for. Meanwhile I can’t even get an appointment for something that needs to be kept at -70.

Mitch

@M.A.R. to quote the song that Elton John stole from David Bowie, the weather in space.. "It's cold as hell"

M.A.R.

@Mitch wow such wisdom

Mitch

@M.A.R. much wow. so meme

@Xanne It's like an out of work coal mner

wait

that metaphor doesn't work the way I expected it to

Xanne

21:01

@Mitch I lived for a while on Charles St, at the foot of Beacon Hill. I loved it. Very happy there.

Robusto

21:31

> It’s often said that use of the passive voice is a dead giveaway, and it’s true here, as well. McConnell’s claim that “the mob was fed lies [about the election]” elides the role that many members of the Senate and House GOP — and McConnell himself — played in this feeding.

Cerberus

21:53

It could even be said that a rather active role was played by those members.

Robusto

Indeed.

The dead giveaway is never more apparent when a company or a government says "mistakes were made." Not "We made mistakes," which would likely be received better (or even "we screwed up," which would be something everyone can relate to).

Cerberus

22:25

Yeah.

It's very Yes Minister.

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