English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

user19161

11:00

I think our sarcastic remarks and excessive downvotes have earned us the reputation of an unfriendly place. This must change.

RegDwight АΑA

Citation needed.

Gigili

Hullioha.

user19161

@Gigili Boo!

Matt Эллен

bonjour

user19161

Hello @kit! You must be all geared up for election day too!

KitFox

11:13

Oh noes! I have no Geary's for election day!

I shall have to stop at the packie on the way home.

Matt Эллен

Offers some gear to @Kit I have plenty!

KitFox

Geary's, man, Geary's!

Matt Эллен

Oh! Oh no! I have none of those either

RegDwight АΑA

Geary's C

Geary's C is a measure of spatial autocorrelation. Like autocorrelation, spatial autocorrelation means that adjacent observations of the same phenomenon are correlated. However, autocorrelation is about proximity in time. Spatial autocorrelation is about proximity in (two-dimensional) space. Spatial autocorrelation is more complex than autocorrelation because the correlation is two-dimensional and bi-directional. Geary's C is defined as : C = \frac{(N-1) \sum_{i} \sum_{j} w_{ij} (X_i-X_j)^2}{2W \sum_{i}(X_i-\bar X)^2} where N is the number of spatial units indexed by i and j; X is the ...

KitFox

...oh, sorry...didn't realize that was a local microbrew.

Matt Эллен

11:15

> Warning: Questionable website

Location: www.gearybrewing.com
Your organization's policy is set to warn on websites categorized as Alcohol & Tobacco.

RegDwight АΑA

Here, have a C. Other letters might follow.

KitFox

@MattЭллен Oh. Well, it's a lovely ale.

RegDwight АΑA

@MattЭллен sites can be alcohol now? Why do I still spend money in stores!

Matt Эллен

does gear mean drugs, in the USA?

KitFox

@MattЭллен Not generally.

Matt Эллен

11:17

@RegDwightАΑA just go to LA and breath in the air!

@KitFox aight. gear can mean drugs in the UK

KitFox

makes note

RegDwight АΑA

Yeah. Get one's ass in differential gear, we used to say.

Matt Эллен

although I don't know how popular it is anymore

Gigili

So... Who resigned from whom by what?

RegDwight АΑA

@MattЭллен We stopped saying it three years ago.

@Gigili I think I resigned, by the resignation.

Matt Эллен

11:18

oh, I'm so out of touch with culture. I'll just retire to my cave

RegDwight АΑA

@MattЭллен in order to retire you have to tire first.

Matt Эллен

I have indeed tired

of so many things

Gigili

Forexample?

RegDwight АΑA

►

Matt Эллен

@Gigili Nortonn S's antics

RegDwight АΑA

11:21

Pictured from left to right: tire, not Matt.

Matt Эллен

:D

I'm not Elaine

RegDwight АΑA

►

Perhaps you're this guy, then?

Matt Эллен

Maybe. I don't have a blue cap though.

KitFox

Oh right! That's why I'm so dumb lately.

Matt Эллен

No blue cap?

RegDwight АΑA

11:25

We all have to start somewhere. We all start life with no blue cap. But then life happens and one fine day boom! You have a blue cap.

Matt Эллен

I guess I'll just have to be patient

Gigili

I have a green cap if it helps.

RegDwight АΑA

KitFox

11:43

1

Q: Is “indifferent to negligent” just a set of word? How different is it from “indifferent and negligent”?

There was an article titled “The short life and lonely death of Sabrina Seelig” in July 29 New York Times reporting the death of a young woman who was a student of classics at Hunter College. She was carried to a hospital by ambulance after feeling sick, and died there. The article says: “The...

phrases

I knew this girl's ice cream stand.

I think I must actually have met her before.

Cerberus

11:55

Good morning.

Robusto

Good morrow to you.

Matt Эллен

Helloes

skullpatrol

yo

Cerberus

Have you been elected yet?

Matt Эллен

Have you voted for me?

Cerberus

11:57

Yes. Absolutely. Sure.

Matt Эллен

lol. The election hasn't even started yet, silly :D

Cerberus

Then that was it!

(I know. I'm just morning-rambling.)

Matt Эллен

oh! So am I your personal moderator now?

RegDwight АΑA

@MattЭллен well we found out that Cerberus is a liar just the other day. What did you expect?

Cerberus

Yes, you may moderate me.

Matt Эллен

11:58

@RegDwightАΑA Sad but true

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA What? How did you find out?

I meant, that is a lie!

Matt Эллен

lol

Cerberus

Your line, not mine, I mean.

Dammit.

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus I looked for it, and there it was between sock 34 and sock 35.

Cerberus

How did it manifest itself?

RegDwight АΑA

11:59

22 hours ago, by RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus you helped close 44 questions. You are a liar! That is bad for us!

Cerberus

Ah.

How can you see that anyway?

user19161

@RegDwightАΑA You have so many socks? I only have 3 pairs, and they are identical.

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus SEDE query.

For yourself, you can just look it up in a tab on your profile, as I learned just the other day from Matt.

Cerberus

Let it be noted that I mostly vote to close just to be nice, when people complain about questions here.

@RegDwightАΑA Oh, interesting.

Matt Эллен

Yay! people read things I write :D

RegDwight АΑA

12:00

@Cerberus You can still be nice as a mod.

Matt Эллен

or at least one person has

Cerberus

You really think I'm sticking my noses into that wasp's nest?

RegDwight АΑA

Your chance of getting elected is only 2/11.

user19161

@RegDwightАΑA You mean there are 11 people now?

Robusto

No one yet has offered to practice extreme moderation. I was kind of hoping someone would.

RegDwight АΑA

12:02

@JasperLoy with Cerberus there would be.

@Robusto only the most modest of us can practice sextreme moderation.

Cerberus

@Robusto I would!

RegDwight АΑA

May 7 '11 at 20:38, by RegDwight

Modest Modestovich Robustov.

Cerberus

So on my page, I see only 9 closures.

That must be only active closure votes, then.

RegDwight АΑA

What are passive closure votes? Don't invent stuff.

You only see things that are not deleted.

user19161

@RegDwightАΑA Now we know Robusto's real name.

Matt Эллен

12:04

I think he's right, in some way

Robusto

@RegDwightАΑA Pictures of an Exhibitionist

Matt Эллен

my close vote count is down to 257

RegDwight АΑA

May 7 '11 at 20:38, by Robusto

I mean, "Pictures of an Exhibitionist" — what's that about, anyway. It ain't modesty.

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA Then that's what I mean. See, it's not that hard.

RegDwight АΑA

Better extreme exhibitionism than extreme Excelbitionism.

Cerberus

12:05

What is that?

simchona

I suggest you to paying special attention also to questions that get downvotes, as well as to answers that get downvotes. Yes, it is not strange; here the votes are strictly correlated to the asker and to who answer, rather than to the quality of the questions and of the answers theirselves. So, as an instance, you can found Pam Peter's (one of the major experts in linguistic) answers that had been voted down. However take a look on grammar.ccc (a good site to learn English) — Carlo_R. 25 mins ago

Cerberus

Excel bits?

RegDwight АΑA

@JasperLoy no, now you know his real name. Everyone else knowed it all along.

simchona

Glad to see he understands downvotes. Not.

Cerberus

Haha.

user19161

12:06

@RegDwightАΑA Another variation is Robusto Hatsuyume, or Captain America.

RegDwight АΑA

Not glad? Not understands? Not downvotes? What is this grammar?

Cerberus

@simchona This would make me excessively tired.

RegDwight АΑA

44 mins ago, by RegDwight АΑA

►

From right to left: Cerberus, getting tired.

Cerberus

Haha.

simchona

@reg all of the above.

Cerberus

12:07

I could be doing that.

user19161

@Cerberus Let's not laugh at Carlo anymore.

Cerberus

Except that my necks would get twisted in a knot.

I guess it's better than having one's knickers in a twist, or whatever one says around here.

Robusto

@simchona Ha, he just downvoted me, apparently.

simchona

@rob ugh, really?

RegDwight АΑA

@Robusto well you were kind of cryptic.

Robusto

12:10

@simchona Yep.

Cerberus

I get the feeling that you are actually enjoying these fights...

Robusto

@RegDwightАΑA I am the crypt-keeper.

Cerberus

Which is OK, I guess.

Robusto

@Cerberus Moi?

RegDwight АΑA

Robusto

12:12

@RegDwightАΑA Yes, yes, thank you, Captain Obvious.

RegDwight АΑA

I am here to be thanked, Miss America.

Or was it Captain, too?

Robusto

Me m'appelle Anatole France.

RegDwight АΑA

Besides, ask Cerberus if he knows who that is.

Cerberus

@Robusto More like most of you guys.

@RegDwightАΑA Who?

RegDwight АΑA

The guy in the picture above.

simchona

12:14

Hello @simchona, I hope that when you will be elected as moderator (I'm one of your supporters for this election) you, as FumbleFingers asked in meta, could provide more guidance on this matter. — Carlo_R. 3 mins ago

Cerberus

No.

RegDwight АΑA

QED.

simchona

I'm getting twitchy. I did provide guidance. As did rob, kit, etc

Cerberus

@simchona Haha, unbelievable.

Now he supporting your candidature.

Gigili

Don't laugh people, don't laugh.

Cerberus

12:15

I'm going to look at that thread now. Just for fun—I'm not reading it all, of course.

Oh, it's not the election thread.

Robusto

@simchona Just tell him we already provided closure on the matter, and there's an end on't.

simchona

@rob I said I answered him on Meta and commented on his "avail" answer before comments were wiped

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus I get the feeling that you are actually enjoying these fights...

Gigili

@RegDwightАΑA Moi?

Cerberus

@J.R. yeah I sort had a rough entry into the community :-) , both the question I asked got closed pretty quickly. That actually makes me feel comfortable that this is a vibrant community like other stack exchange sites and will help me in learning English the proper way. — Geek 1 hour ago

This is madness.

RegDwight АΑA

12:17

Madness?

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA From a long distance, yes.

RegDwight АΑA

Oh crap, I forgot. You won't get that reference, either.

Cerberus

No.

And I meant madness as in Christ.

simchona

This is Sparta.

Robusto

He only gets Greek & Latin references.

Gigili

12:18

I guess that's quite different to the connotation that should be expressed in OP's example. — Em1 17 mins ago

Matt Эллен

Spartans were Greek

Cerberus

Not only!

RegDwight АΑA

►

KitFox

@MattЭллен gasp

Matt Эллен

hehehe

Cerberus

12:20

Okay, that was totally random.

Is that Leonidas or something?

RegDwight АΑA

Derselbe.

Cerberus

Selber.

There's some arbitrariness back for you.

KitFox

Sebulba.

Robusto

@Cerberus The moral of the story is, don't stand at the edge of a bottomless pit when you are in a confrontation with someone who appears belligerent.

RegDwight АΑA

Arbitrariness? It was a huge meme of epic proportions. You don't even have to know the movie at all. It's all over the Internet. Don't tell me you don't have Internet access.

KitFox

12:22

Cerb's a bit light on the memes.

RegDwight АΑA

We should write up some memeoirs for him.

Matt Эллен

he's no meme machine

Robusto

You mean a memeograph?

Gigili

Look what I found out. Em1 and Carlo are the same person.

RegDwight АΑA

Memeonade.

Robusto

12:23

@Gigili OH NOES! SOCKPUPPETRY!

Really? They are the same?

Cerberus

@Robusto Noted.

user19161

@Gigili Really?

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA I don't have time to watch films or look up quotations. When am I going to chat or read random articles on the web, huh?

RegDwight АΑA

Right.

Cerberus

shocked

Robusto

12:25

@Cerberus One of your random pages ought to involve the latest memes. How else are you going to keep up?

RegDwight АΑA

@JasperLoy nonsense. They aren't even in the same country.

Gigili

@RegDwightАΑA Wie bitte? Carlo is from nowhere which could be Germany.

@JasperLoy That was a wild guess on the right line!

Cerberus

@Robusto Keeping things up is not my forte. Except Appearances, perhaps.

RegDwight АΑA

@Gigili I think you misread my line.

Cerberus

There's your meme.

Gigili

12:28

I believe that there are two different people logging in as Carlo.

tchrist

@Gigili Em1 uses English much less unproficiently, compared with Carlo_R.

Cerberus

Or three?

Gigili

Well, I do not. But someone does.

RegDwight АΑA

Link or it didn't happen.

Cerberus

Morning!

Gigili

12:29

Afternoon.

simchona

-3

A: Is this correct: "...to all avail"?

I found this quote by Pam Peters (The Cambridge Guide to English Usage), and she says: As a noun, avail is now mostly fixed into the negative idiom to no avail, and its occasional variants to little avail, to any avail and the rhetorical question To what avail? The verb avail still h...

RegDwight АΑA

The situation is complex enough as it is. No wild guesses please. Them's not helping.

simchona

He improved by...adding more quotes that aren't his?

tchrist

Many of his answer are just big long quotes. He doesn't understand why these garner downvotes.

simchona

@reg still waiting on that other shoe?

tchrist

12:30

I see no evidence that there is more than one agent behind the same login in this case.

simchona

I told him why they aren't good, but he goes and does it again and then complains

tchrist

Morning, Kerb.

user19161

@tchrist I notice the double negation there.

tchrist

@JasperLoy Intended. Em1's postings are much more apt to parse as standard English than are Carlo's.

Gigili

@RegDwightАΑA Bah, I've spent my valuable time in caring for you.

tchrist

12:33

Why isn't the "say" question GR?

simchona

12:46

I tried to help CR again. Gloves are coming off if he kvetches

tchrist

@simchona I've always thought of kvetch as vaguely onomatopoeic for upchuck, one of those "make your saving throw versus choking or die" kind of words. Seems to apply here. :)

Gigili

@Robusto Stupid people everywhere.

Indeed, he asks if we just can leave out the word. And yes, you're answer state out that it is possible. But your answer is far away of being complete or fully correct, since you're missing the crux of the matter. His examples does express something else then your quote refers to. Thus, I'm sorry, but you're off the track. — Em1 4 mins ago

I guess you got lectured about English by someone who doesn't speak it.

tchrist

@Gigili "These things happen in the best of families."

Cerberus

@Gigili This doesn't look like the best of families...

But somehow the mistakes seem different from Carlo's.

I detect no Italicisms.

tchrist

Actually, that whole paragraph is full of wrongnesses. But the only similarity with Carlo's stuff that I see there is the air of non-native/improficient speaker leaking through.

Gigili

13:03

Umm.

Cerberus

It is next to unreadable.

simchona

It is not relevant whether the words are mine or not. It is only relavant the content of the answer. Here the content (absolutely self-consistent) is perfectly adeguate for deciding if it is possible to use "to all avail" or not. Furthermore, well-referenced answers are welcome on this site, as its story has demonstrated. But, it seems that the contrary is true only for my answer. Hence, it is clear that these downvotes are precisely against me. On this problem I will ask to the co-founders of SE because here there is a clear discrimination versus me, which is proibited in the SE philosophy. — Carlo_R. 4 mins ago

Matt Эллен

readable|-----------------------|unreadable
                               ^

simchona

WTF

RegDwight АΑA

The Town Hall Chat has taken place. A digest is now available on our meta.

6

tchrist

13:07

This is a bit combative: english.stackexchange.com/questions/76354/…

Well, I see that's the wrong way to link to a comment.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightАΑA wait. 1am UTC?

well, I guess I won't be participating.

RegDwight АΑA

Better than the last time. I think it was 3am here.

Matt Эллен

indeed

skullpatrol

unreadable|----------------------------------|not understandable
______________________________^

RegDwight АΑA

So one hour earlier this time.

Matt Эллен

13:08

too many non-Europeans are running, I guess ;)

RegDwight АΑA

0

A: 2012 Community Moderator Town Hall Chat

As the timing of the event, while (thus far) the best for candidates, may not be optimal for attendees (England does in fact consistitute a good portion of English speakers), I'm setting up a bit of a "question preset" here. Leave a comment on this answer with your question and I will ask it on y...

KitFox

;-)

tchrist

@simchona Discrimination, eh? One must discriminate between the good and bad; this is what voting is all about.

RegDwight АΑA

@KitFox um, wha?

Matt Эллен

:5564523 yeah, don't you knows yer Anglish?

simchona

13:09

@tchrist He's going to mommy and dad...I mean co-founders

KitFox

@RegDwightАΑA Because it is Aug 2nd at 1 zulu.

Never mind, I was being silly.

Instead it came out as confusing.

tchrist

@simchona ♬ Can’t Get No... Satisfaction ♬

skullpatrol

@MattЭллен I'm next to "not understandable" (see above diagram).

Matt Эллен

:D

Mitch

@tchrist was that the comment to me?:

@Mitch: I read the comments to the contrary, so if I read your username, I completely ignore they. — Carlo_R. 7 mins ago

KitFox

13:14

@MattЭллен Aww, come on! You can set your alarm!

Mitch

It is too ... something... to tell. It could be that he ignored my comment because he saw my username. But he could be saying something else entirely...who knows.

tchrist

@Mitch Yeah. I apparently don't know how to quote a comment. But maybe I don't understand what it was actually saying. I thought it was discriminating against you. :)

Matt Эллен

@KitFox and get 4 hours sleep? The site doesn't deserve me as moderator that much

Gigili

@RegDwightАΑA August 2nd is August 1st? What is August 3rd then?

Mitch

@MattЭллен yes, that's annyoing. but one -can- post questions ahead of time.

Matt Эллен

13:15

@Mitch and answers?

since I'm running

RegDwight АΑA

Time zone

A time zone is a region on Earth that has a uniform standard time for legal, commercial, and social purposes. It is convenient for areas in close commercial or other communication to keep the same time, so time zones tend to follow the boundaries of countries and their subdivisions. Most of the 40 time zones on land are offset from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) by a whole number of hours (UTC−12 to UTC+14), but a few are offset by 30 or 45 minutes. Some higher latitude countries use daylight saving time for part of the year, typically by changing clocks by an hour. Many land time ...

Gigili

@MattЭллен Yes, and answers. That's what I did.

Matt Эллен

@Gigili ORLY? Well then I will

Mitch

@MattЭллен oh...right...answers..hm.

RegDwight АΑA

Actually I'm not sure posting questions ahead of time is a good idea either.

Gigili

13:16

@skullpatrol Um.

KitFox

Well, you could write some blurbs and send them to me. I could post them on your behalf, @Matt.

Mitch

Oh...Grace says that a transcript will be posted.

KitFox

Or maybe send them to a proxy who is also not in the running.

Mitch

@RegDwightАΑA I don't get the whole point then though of a synchronous chat for an hour. why not just have them all posted?

KitFox

@Mitch Spontaneity.

RegDwight АΑA

13:18

Exactly my point.

Everyone can prepare carefully-crafted answers in advance.

Not everyone can say the right thing under pressure.

skullpatrol

Pressure is apart of life.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox that's very kind, but I'm not sure anything I would write would be specific enough to answer any question

Mitch

also... yeah..exactly.

KitFox

Well, and it is easy enough to hang back and copy the smarter sounding people/popular answers.

Mitch

but it could be fun. bear beating and stuff.

KitFox

13:19

@MattЭллен Well, there are some pretty typical questions you could anticipate.

Mitch

oh...it's for people to ask the -candidates- stuff and they have to answer on the spot...

KitFox

@Mitch Baiting, you mean?

Mitch

I get it.

argh.. yes..that thing..baiting.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Maybe the election should be blinded. All the candidates have to campaign, etc, under false names and false gravatars

then we'd have to judge them just by what they say in the town hall chat

and not by their looks

Mitch

beating is not fair game. unless the bear is free to beat you too.

Matt Эллен

13:20

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 damnit. that's all I have going for me

KitFox

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 what? voting is all about who you like for no apparent reason.

all the though stuff is post hoc rationalization.

KitFox

Exactly.

Mitch

hm..isn't this a sequence from some 80's movie?

Big chill?

KitFox

Which is why the shagging is so important.

Ah! Tweened.

Mitch

13:22

zing!

RegDwight АΑA

@Mitch I like turtles!

KitFox

But that's makes it funny, so I'll leave it.

Mitch

@RegDwightАΑA trains. I like trains

KitFox

digs around for fox-in-a-turtle-costume-riding-a-train avatar

Mitch

oh...we're not all 12 year olds here?

RegDwight АΑA

13:23

@Mitch I wish it would train down on me.

Matt Эллен

Are you training men?

Mitch

@RegDwightАΑA behind...what color are your eyes?

@MattЭллен Hallelujah

skullpatrol

►

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But the history of their behaviour on the website is perhaps the most important voting criterion...

Matt Эллен

@Mitch I'll have a cold and broken one, ta

simchona

13:26

@Mitch "As a noun, avail is now mostly fixed into the negative idiom to no avail, and its occasional variants to little avail, to any avail" implies (to me) that no space there is for "to all avail", but as native speakers of English speak the way they like, no one can exclude that it is impossible the using of this phrase, but it would not be a good register. Are you satisfied? — Carlo_R. 2 mins ago

Does he understand what register is?

tchrist

@simchona Nope.

RegDwight АΑA

Matt Эллен

lol

KitFox

guffaw

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I answered this question but on further thought I was wondering if it belongs on Writers

1

Q: T-V distinction

In many languages, there is such thing as T-V distinction. Basically, it's when you use different pronouns in "formal" (or "polite") speech, and in informal speech. Now, I do realize there is no such thing in English directly. However, there are phrases that indicate the change between the for...

pronouns formality personal-pronouns

Matt Эллен

13:30

actually, it's not. I confused t-v with u / non-u

Mitch

@simchona frankly there is so much that is not understood that I didn't even register 'register'.

RegDwight АΑA

I always confuse TV with TiVo.

Mitch

THat's not what the question is about?

RegDwight АΑA

I can't even look at any questions before I resolve my TiVo confusion.

Mitch

They're the same. Resolved. Now go look at questions.

RegDwight АΑA

13:37

Well I have. You are all wrong.

In German it's duzen and siezen.

Matt Эллен

Well you're wrong. In English it's dozen and seizing.

or dozing and sneezing, depending on the season

Cerberus

@simchona See, that is chock full of Italicisms. A clear indicator.

Mitch

@RegDwightАΑA oops! well they should change it to the way I wrote it.

tchrist

@RegDwightАΑA Spanish has only tutear for addressing someone with tú; there is no antonym apart from no tutear for the corresponding Usted style of address.

RegDwight АΑA

@tchrist Speaking of Spanish, I refrained from pointing out how Cerberus's correction of your correction of Carlo's correction of someone else was not entirely right.

To paraphrase Paola, there is a difference between the declension of a noun and its grammatical sex/gender. Poeta belongs to the -a declension, which is normally feminine; but this word happens to be an exception, and so it is masculine. The grammatical sex of a word is expressed in the agreement of adjectives and articles: it would normally be il poeta, not la poeta. Declension is expressed in inflection, which consists in the -a/-e endings here. — Cerberus yesterday

Spanish has il agua, @Cer.

tchrist

13:43

Um, no.

RegDwight АΑA

Uh, sorry. El.

tchrist

Spanish has el agua but la pura agua, from VL illa acqua.

The -a at the end of illa fused with the stressed a of the following noun.

RegDwight АΑA

I think you miss my point. So Carlo would probably miss it as well.

tchrist

Ok.

RegDwight АΑA

Water in Spanish is feminine, but takes the masculine article as a sandhi of sorts.

tchrist

13:45

It only takes an apparently-masculine article. That's actually a feminine article in that instance.

RegDwight АΑA

Well yes.

simchona

@simchona: "a good register" has a little idiomatic meaning. You hyperanalyze my single terms with the only finality to criticizing my answer. Hyperanalizing is only apparantely in the spirit of SE sites. — Carlo_R. 40 secs ago

RegDwight АΑA

See, perhaps I should post my correction of Cerberus's correction of your correction of Carlo's correction of someone else, so you can then post a correction of my correction of Cerberus's correction of your correction of Carlo's correction of someone else. In the house that Carlo built.

simchona

Erm. Not really.

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA Right, that is another exception.

tchrist

13:47

Whoa, so he cannot spell the same word the same way twice in a row? Is this not the sign of madness? :)

Or are the hobgoblins out to get me again?

RegDwight АΑA

Sparta. Not madness. Sparta.

(I am teaching Cerberus memes.)

simchona

@RegDwightАΑA CR really isn't being productive any more. At all.

Hyperanalsys, as this is the case, can be used to create discrimination in a way only apparently coeherent with ELU philosophy. — Carlo_R. 1 min ago

Cerberus

@tchrist Hey, do you know how phrases like belle example work?

tchrist

@RegDwightАΑA I think one is making an error in conflating physical sex with grammatical gender. And it probably doesn't make sense to talk about declensions in modern Romance, just in Latin. We can learn things about modern Romance forms from tracing declensions (e.g. magna manu -> la mano) but not much else.

Cerberus

I really cannot believe that it should be beau example. That just sounds wrong.

Or does it?

KitFox

13:51

mmm...physical sex.

Cerberus

@tchrist Why not? Singular-plural seems quite distinctive?

tchrist

@Cerberus My ear says bel example.

Cerberus

Ohh yes, there is that.

Just like cet.

I completely forgot. I just had this phonetic /bel/ that I couldn't ignore.

So it would be un bel exemple, non?

KitFox

4

Q: Could the meta site be more clearly labeled?

I'm a new user. I was looking at the main site, and trying to learn more about how things work, so I clicked the FAQ link; then I clicked something else, I'm not sure what, and found a bunch of interesting questions about meta topics. After ten minutes of clicking around and reading questions, I ...

feature-request

I'd like some more attention on this question.

I think this is an important feature.

tchrist

@Cerberus Because in Greek or Latin, we group nouns (and adjectives) into 3 or up to 5 "declensions", sets of shared inflections.

RegDwight АΑA

13:53

@Cerberus Well now that you brought it up, I do wonder where it comes from. It might be written "bel" now, to distinguish it from "belle", but spoken language is primary.

tchrist

Which are orthogonal to gender.

I think one writes un bel example, but it's been twenty years since I've used much French.

Cerberus

@tchrist So then what problem is there in differentiating between volta–volte, peccato–peccati, and direzione–direzioni?

tchrist

And I'm not one to use "declension" just to mean the singular-plural inflectional distinction. It's about all the cases of a declension grouping.

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA How do you mean? I believe bel and belle are pronounced more or less the same?

@tchrist Why?

tchrist

@Cerberus Oh you can certainly differentiate those. It just is not what I would call the 1st and 2nd declension in Italian, because those terms no longer apply in my understanding.

Cerberus

13:56

Why not?

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus yes. Exactly. That is exactly what I mean.

Cerberus

Because decline implies case?

I guess you have etymology on your side...

The casus rectus being the nominative.

So them what would you call it? A paradigm?

tchrist

On the other hand, there is a lot to be learned from the apparent gender-switch in the masculine singular uovo going to feminine plural uova in Italian, and that all comes from Latin, because it was a 2nd-declension neuter ovum -> ova.

I guess paradigm is fine. Or just model.

Cerberus

I am more comfortable with paradigm. I will grudgingly accept defeat, but only if you will throw me this bone.

KitFox

Hey, shouldn't we put an election ad up?

7

Q: Community Promotion Ads - 2012

What are Community Promotion Ads? Community Promotion Ads are community-vetted advertisements that will show up on the main site, in the right sidebar. The purpose of this question is the vetting process. Images of the advertisements are provided, and community voting will enable the advertiseme...

discussion community-ads

Mitch

13:59

@Cerberus certainement.

tchrist

You may have paradigm.

Cerberus

@KitFox Oh, no!

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