English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

12:07 AM

I smell a rat.

Gigili

12:17 AM

A rat?

tchrist

Yeah, an annoying pattern I’ve flagged for moderator attention.

simchona

@tchrist The same one you mentioned to me?

tchrist

Yes, that's right.

It happened again, immediately, without comment given, and with circumstantial non-idle times, just as always before.

simchona

I trust the OED.

> As a noun avail is now mostly fixed into the negative idiom to no avail, and its occasional variants to little avail, to any avail and the rhetorical question To what avail?

I don't think that justifies whether "to all avail" is right or wrong.

tchrist

Um, that isn't what I said, and I haven't voted on his answer.

simchona

12:31 AM

@tchrist No, I was just commenting on his answer regardless

Gigili

@tchrist Oh, dear. Very annoying.

tchrist

But the OED definition of "benefit" conflicts with the OP's intended sense of "to all effect".

I think the OP himself didn't understand what avail means.

Right. Carlo mostly just supplies answers that are quotes from grammar books. Sigh.

simchona

@tchrist Just one book, and the quotes don't usually support one point or another

tchrist

Yes, exactly.

simchona

@RegDwight: Please, stop this massacre against me. There is nothing wrong in my answer, and that has already gained one downvote. — Carlo_R. 17 secs ago

tchrist

12:36 AM

Yes, he said that the other day when he got 4 downvotes.

He doesn't see that there may be a problem with his answers.

But in this case, I specifically held off downvoting (despite thinking it merits it) to see whether he would cry foul. And he has. Sigh**2.

simchona

-10

Q: Why Pam Peters answers are unwelcome in ELU

As it is well known, Pam Peters' "The Cambridge Guide to English Usage" is well-written and based on current linguistic research. So, today, I have posted two Pam Peters answers, hoping to give a quality contribute to the community. But the saint answer has gained 1 down vote, and the ought ans...

tchrist

That's quite a lot of downvotes. :)

simchona

It's all in how he's using it, not what he's using. Next step is getting him to realize that answers should be self-contained, and referring to someone else's answer isn't best practice

tchrist

Yes, of course on the how vs what.

RegDwight АΑA

Poor nohat. Nobody randomly pings him.

tchrist

12:43 AM

He takes things very personally. Remember him attacking mahnmax for a perceived downvote? Ick.

simchona

@RegDwightАΑA Can I randomly ping you all over? Like a treasure hunt?

Also, is there a way to get him to understand that down votes aren't personal?

It seems like he gets one and immediately assumes the world is against him

Because it's a "massacre"

tchrist

-1 isn’t a massacre. -10 isn't even a massacre. -100, yeah ok.

2

simchona

I just think he could be far more constructive if he learned to take criticism with a grain of salt

Also, learning to understand what the heck he's quoting

tchrist

He is trying. Just not doing a good job at it.

simchona

Can we help him try better?

I'm just not sure what to say to him.

tchrist

12:45 AM

I certainly can't. He won't hear anything I say.

simchona

It might sound better coming from @RegDwightАΑA, as voice of authority. He considers you far more impartial than the rest of us

tchrist

I can't help but chuckle at Robusto’s remark => ★ 11 OK, so if you don't speak English, WTF are you doing answering questions on ELU? - jul 25 at 21:37 by Robusto

simchona

@RegDwight: sorry, the mobile version of ELU does not support the flag function. However when you see a massacre, you should work for saving the victime, rather than for the oppose activities. — Carlo_R. 1 min ago

tchrist

Well, one thing he needs to be told is that comments are not for chatting.

Even though this does happen often enough.

But if he can't flag, I don't know what he's supposed to do.

simchona

The mobile version lets you flag if you go into full site mode. I do it a fair amount

Ok, I tried to help him a little bit

RegDwight АΑA

12:51 AM

@simchona you can try, but I have the chat on mute now anyway. Dexter's quiet as ass, so I had to go with the volume up to 11, but forgot all about chat at first. Sure enough, the sound waves from the very first ping knocked down trees all over the county. There will be no second one. I like trees.

simchona

@RegDwightАΑA SO DO I NEED TO TALK LIKE THIS NOW?

RegDwight АΑA

I have no idea if that's what you need. What does your shrink say?

@simchona nah, he's about as cross with me as with anybody else.

simchona

@RegDwightАΑA Well, I tried to be a voice of reason. Fingers crossed that it works.

RegDwight АΑA

His admiration never lasts for long.

simchona

Nope. He might still be good with Jasper though.

RegDwight АΑA

12:55 AM

Poor Jasper, then. He's the next victime.

Gigili

I'm so tempted to downvote his answer to see the reaction.

simchona

@RegDwightАΑA Maybe he works for the oppose activities, though.

RegDwight АΑA

@tchrist he has expanded on that since.

8

A: Why Pam Peters answers are unwelcome in ELU

In a comment to another user on that question, you state: Could you expand your comment? I don't speak English, so I have some difficults to understanding that. Here is what you were responding to: I perhaps am mistaken, but I've never read a sentence in which ought to is introduced by ...

Gigili

I'm bored to death right now.

RegDwight АΑA

@Gigili stay classy. And don't mess up the stats.

Gigili

12:57 AM

@RegDwightАΑA Umm.

tchrist

@Gigili I feel the same way — plus it’s a legit downvote.

simchona

I wouldn't collude, though. That can only backfire

tchrist

No, I can’t. I’m an "interested party".

RegDwight АΑA

Well, as interesting as this party is, I need to go back to Dexter and then to bed. I have a hunch, and some stats to go with it, but I need moar. Stuff takes time. We had people walk on thin ice before; eventually the global warming took care of it.

tchrist

Good night.

simchona

1:08 AM

@RegDwightАΑA Hmmm. Sounds intriguing

Cerberus

1:22 AM

Hi.

Hi @Tchrist!

Good to see you here.

RegDwight АΑA

@simchona I imagine it wasn't quite as intriguing to the poor sod who managed to get to 10k before he was offered the chance to take unpaid leave, but sometimes it's better to not have people see the Spanish Inquisition coming from a mile away. Easier that way.

tchrist

@Cerberus I never knew how to access it.

RegDwight АΑA

Well how did you access it now?

tchrist

I followed a link he gave me.

Cerberus

You are a talented young man. Or woman.

simchona

1:23 AM

@tchrist Well, if it happens that the other shoe drops, I'd be intrigued to know what happened.

@tchrist You mean me?

Cerberus

Young in either case.

tchrist

Pretty sure my sex is in my profile. )

Cerberus

@simchona You too.

simchona

@Cerberus No, I gave him a link to chat :p

Cerberus

@tchrist I'm just guessing...I haven't looked at your profile, and now I am in too silly a mood to do so.

RegDwight АΑA

1:24 AM

For faster access, the chat is linked from the top of every page, and on the right hand side of the front page.

@Cerberus drunk again?

Cerberus

Incidentally, it pleases me that you are all awake at this hour.

tchrist

I always and only used to always use Opera (with heavy Prixoxy interference,) so couldn't use chat. This is using Safari, where chat actually works.

simchona

We were chatting earlier about NS, and how I recognized him

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA ...maybe a little bit.

tchrist

It's 7:25pm.

RegDwight АΑA

1:25 AM

3:25 am where Cerberus is.

simchona

@tchrist No, 8.25pm silly.

Cerberus

Only Reg has a correct notion of time.

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus I am not awake. Also, I am not here. I have Dexter to watch, and work to go to in a couple hours.

Cerberus

I understand.

You are just a terrific somnambulist.

tchrist

@simchona The other shoe will take some time to develop, I think. It's hard to plot a pattern without enough datapoints.

RegDwight АΑA

1:26 AM

@tchrist I had to switch to Chrome for the same reason. Chat stopped working in Opera when they introduced some fancy-dandy HTML5 stuffs and nonsenses.

simchona

@tchrist Well, considering the rapid rise I wouldn't be entirely surprised when the other one falls

@tchrist I'm also a she, if you were referring to me earlier :]

tchrist

@simchona I was. Oops. And I’m not somebody who uses he as a generic, either, so no excuse.

RegDwight АΑA

In elk geval, goeienacht!

tchrist

What he said.

simchona

@tchrist No problem, nor offense taken

Cerberus

1:29 AM

@tchrist Why not!

@RegDwightАΑA Gute Nacht, Freund!

I love women, but I also love neutral he.

simchona

I'm fine with neutral "he" or "they"

tchrist

@Cerberus Because I’m a neutral they proponent.

Cerberus

But why!

tchrist

Because it's what people actually say.

Cerberus

In some cases it can be confusing, when you have a singular person and a plural...

simchona

1:30 AM

The s/he construction bothers me

or "he or she"

Cerberus

Understandable.

tchrist

@simchona Those are both obnoxious.

simchona

@tchrist And take up far too much space

tchrist

@Cerberus Yes, sometimes, but not so often.

Gigili

I found all those variants offensive.

simchona

1:32 AM

@Gigili S/he and "he or she"?

Or those plus neutral "he" and "they"

Gigili

@simchona And "they".

tchrist

If somebody asks you to contribute to their campaign, tell them that they can go to help because the money is staying in your own account, not theirs.

Gigili

And those plus neutral "he" and "they"

simchona

@Gigili Hmm, interesting. I think it's useful to have a neutral pronoun

tchrist

If somebody asks you to contribute to his or her campaign, them him or her that he or she can go to hell because the money is staying in your account account, not in his or hers.

2

simchona

1:33 AM

Otherwise everyone and everything is genderficated

tchrist

Down that path lies madness, maybe even a bitch-slap.

Gigili

Oh, @tchrist is a she? Very exciting.

tchrist

There are typos, but you can interpolate.

Gigili

Not very, but still.

simchona

@Gigili I'm pretty sure he's a very positive "he"

tchrist

1:34 AM

@Gigili I could probably try, but I'm not very well practised at it.

Gigili

Oh, I'm so confused now!

simchona

@Gigili He's male, I'm 99.9% sure

Ergo, "he"

Unless he prefers to be referred to by another pronoun

Gigili

7 mins ago, by simchona

@tchrist I'm also a she, if you were referring to me earlier :]

So why you said "also"?

tchrist

It's just a "and by the way" kind of "also".

simchona

12 mins ago, by tchrist

I followed a link he gave me.

Gigili

1:36 AM

Umm. Oh. Pft.

simchona

How's your chat abuse issue going @Gigili?

Gigili

@simchona Not bad. Someone left a deeply offensive comment and umm, I'm going to kill them with one bullet.

simchona

@Gigili Ack. The one by yoda?

Gigili

@simchona Uhum.

Cerberus

@tchrist But but...

simchona

1:39 AM

@Gigili I don't think he meant to be offensive. His point makes sense, though he said it doesn't apply here

Cerberus

@Gigili That's my girl!

simchona

@Cerb On a scale of 1 to drunk, how tipsy are you?

tchrist

@Cerberus It’s not worth getting flustered about. The collision cases are much less common than are worth bothering to fret over. Just use what people really say, and all will be well.

Cerberus

@simchona Only 5, I'd say. My last beer was hours ago.

simchona

@Cerberus Does Carlo still like you?

Cerberus

1:42 AM

@tchrist Or use what is most pleasant to the eye!

@simchona Huh, did he ever like me?

simchona

@Cerberus I'm not sure if he ever *dis*liked you

My point is, if he responds to my comment, you can have the responsibility of responding back

-1

A: Is this correct: "...to all avail"?

I found this quote here by Pam Peters (The Cambridge Guide to English Usage), and she says: "As a noun avail is now mostly fixed into the negative idiom to no avail, and its occasional variants to little avail, to any avail and the rhetorical question To what avail?" Based on this, and on the O...

tchrist

@Cerberus I would, but exotic orchids make for poor pronouns.

Gigili

@simchona His point makes sense? A history of being offensive? Me? Oh come one! Only if you try very hard to make sense of it.

Yes, the question is off-topic; but, in this case, there are really no reasons for continuing to voting down. +1 (and +1 for Cerberus) — Carlo_R. 10 hours ago

He really likes you.

simchona

If somebody asks you to contribute to Coelogyne tomentosa campaign, them Coelogyne tomentosa that Coelogyne tomentosa can go to hell because the money is staying in your account account, not in Coelogyne tomentosa.

tchrist

Cerberus 7:25pm MDT 2012-04-13: I have nothing against Carlo.
In fact I barely know him.

Long ago and far away: plus ça change...

Cerberus

1:46 AM

@simchona Up-voted you.

simchona

@Cerberus Thank you dahling

Cerberus

@tchrist Yet "he" is hardly exotic. I have voted your "avail" answer up, by the way.

+10 for mentioning Tolkien and Fowler in one answer.

tchrist

Oh, I thought it was for running afoul of Fowler.

@simchona If somebody asks you to contribute to Coelogyne tomentosa’s campaign, tell Coelogyne tomentosa that Coelogyne tomentosa can go to hell because the money is staying in your account account, not in Coelogyne tomentosa’s.

simchona

@tchrist Whoops. I was partially there. The exotic orchids boggled my mind too much to realize my sentence was wrong

Cerberus

@Gigili Oh, my, you're right.

tchrist

1:49 AM

If only you could embed a purdy little picture instead of Latin.

Cerberus

@tchrist Vraiment plus ça change...but in what context was that?

Latin is purdy!

But you can embed pictures.

tchrist

Ce que tous vous avez déjà discuté sûr Carlo_R le 2012-04-13.

I don’t even know how to properly cite previous comments, let alone embed pix.

Cerberus

Ah, il y a trois mois? C'est trop...

tchrist

Comme j’ai dit: plus ça change.

Cerberus

To embed a picture, just paste the link to a picture in a line with nothing else.

Gigili

1:53 AM

@tchrist Click on the time it were posted and paste the link here.

You're welcome.

Cerberus

To quote a line, hover over it, right-click on the arrow that appears on its left, copy, then paste on a new line.

tchrist

Apr 13 at 19:36, by Cerberus

I have nothing against Carlo.

Et voilà.

Gigili

Oh, I thought you meant a comment on main.

Cerberus

Ah, très bon!

Pas mal pour un novice.

tchrist

On ne peut que tenter.

Cerberus

1:56 AM

Et on réussit!

Wait, that's not French.

tchrist

parfois

Cerberus

There.

I'm not looking anything up, so you will have to content yourself with faulty French.

tchrist

Hm, I understood you anyway. I'm afraid I have Salvatore Syndrome.

Cerberus

Che cosa?

tchrist

Questo.

It's from Il Nome della Rosa, per Eco.

Cerberus

1:57 AM

Io non so ch'è.

tchrist

His character Salvatore, who spoke all languages and none.

Cerberus

Ah, capito.

tchrist

All the Romance tongues run together in my head at times, and I will know what is said much faster than I can suss out the exact language it was in.

Cerberus

Ho leggiato(?) il libro partialemente.

tchrist

It's utterly splendid.

Read it in your native language, the English translation is good, but keep the Italian around to check if you can.

The first 100 pages are a bit of a trudge, but so it was intended to be.

Cerberus

2:00 AM

@tchrist Sometimes it's hard. We once had a couple of books in various Romance languages at the place where I work. Some French, Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan.

But you just have to look at the features you know.

tchrist

I have books in all those on my shelves, and not just language books, but fiction and tour guides and such.

Cerberus

@tchrist I read part of it in Dutch in school.

@tchrist C'est pas si difficile.

tchrist

Ah, you're Dutch? Eso bien explica come eres polilingüe.

Cerberus

Distinguishing between, say, Galician and Andalusian, now that would be hard.

tchrist

No, that’s easy.

KitFox

2:02 AM

Oh, I love Eco!

tchrist

Galician is just Portuguese with Castilian orthography.

El Andaluz is just Castilian with funny pronunciation.

I'm waving a wide brush here.

But Andalusian really is Spanish. Whether Galician is Portuguese depends on your political position.

Cerberus

@tchrist Ah, c'est un belle example: j'sais pas quelle language il est, ça, bien que ce sois facile à comprendre.

Gigili

Ohai Kitty.

tchrist

C'est plus facil comme ça, d’accord.

Cerberus

@tchrist All right, but if you know zero about either dialect...

KitFox

2:03 AM

Ohai, my pretty.

Cerberus

Hallo!

KitFox

I see your lovely eyes this evening.

tchrist

Catalan is quite a ways from any of them, really a close cousin to Occitan/Provençal.

Cerberus

Actually, hallo doesn't sound exactly like a native speaker of Dutch in this context.

@tchrist I know it when I see it, but I couldn't explain it.

Comme la pornographie.

tchrist

Just a sec and I'll dig up a really swell quote for you.

Cerberus

2:05 AM

Ah, bon.

By the way, is un belle example correct?

Gigili

@KitFox blushes

Cerberus

Somehow I don't feel beau would be correct, and yet it feels masculine.

tchrist

>> "Penitenziagite! Vide quando draco venturus est a rodegarla
>> l'anima tua! La mortz est super nos! Prega che vene lo papa
>> santo a liberar nos a malo de todas le peccata! Ah ah, ve
>> piase ista negromanzia de Domini Nostri Iesu Christi! Et anco
>> jois m'es dols e plazer m'es dolors... Cave el diabolo!
>> Semper m'aguaita in qualche canto per adentarme le carcagna.
>> Ma Salvatore non est insipiens! Bonum monasterium, et aqui se
>> magna et se priega dominum nostrum. Et el resto valet un figo

Want the translation?

Cerberus

I have a feeling it should be une belle example.

@tchrist Attend!

tchrist

>> "Penitenziagite! Watch out for the draco who cometh in
>> futurum to gnaw your anima! Death is super nos! Pray the
>> Santo Pater come to liberar nos a malo and all our sin! Ha
>> ha, you like this negromanzia de Domini Nostri Jesu Christi!
>> Et anco jois m'es dols e plazer m'es dolors.... Cave el
>> diabolo! Semper lying in wait for me in some angulum to snap
>> at my heels. But Salvatore is not stupidus! Bonum
>> monasterium, and aqu? refectorium and pray to dominum

That's Salvatore.

Cerberus

2:07 AM

Je voudrais le lire d'avanr.

tchrist

The original is better than the translation, because you don't have English getting in the way.

Do you see how you can read his original but not know what you're reading?

KitFox

English is only a problem if it's your first language.

tchrist

"Et anco jois m'es dols e plazer m'es dolors" is the part in Langue d’Oc.

@KitFox Well, if it’s your only language, you mean.

KitFox

No, I mean it only sticks out if it's your first language.

tchrist

Oh.

Cerberus

2:08 AM

@tchrist That is extremely readable. It looks like part Latin, part Italian, part French.

tchrist

But it's not Romance, like the original.

KitFox

Otherwise, it all just gets lumped under "translate this."

And it gets processed without labeling whence it comes.

tchrist

It's also got Old French, and Catalan/Provençal/Occitan in it.

The concordance on the original is sometimes really interesting, like "todas le peccata".

Cerberus

Immediately intelligible, but very odd.

tchrist

todas is Spanish, fem pl. le is Italian fem pl. But pecatta is Latin neuter plural.

Cerberus

2:10 AM

Yes.

And I believe the word is masculine in Italian, peccato.

KitFox

Hmm. I see. I just read it as "all sins" or something.

tchrist

Oh, I forgot to mention there’s Castilian (Spanish) scattered throughout too.

Cerberus

And pêché in French is probably also masculine?

@KitFox Ding!

Is it pecado in Spanish or something?

tchrist

It’s a masc sg past part, yes.

Pecado is Spanish.

KitFox

And translated "the Holy Father" as "Santo Pater"? WTF?

Cerberus

2:12 AM

@tchrist Not sure it still feels like a participle in Italian...

@KitFox What's strange about that?

KitFox

Anyway, Eco's a genius with language.

tchrist

"Et el resto valet un figo seco" is weird. Modern Spanish should be valet, not the -t which it lost way before Old Spanish. But figo is Old Spanish for higo, or EN fig.

KitFox

@Cerberus Why not just "the Holy Father"?

Gigili

@KitFox Have you been working on your story?

tchrist

Oh, and "et" isn't Spanish at all. He's mixing Latin and Spanish on that one.

Cerberus

2:13 AM

@KitFox Ohh yes, that is odd!

KitFox

@Gigili I haven't. I was thinking about it tonight though.

Cerberus

@tchrist I read it as "the rest isn't worth shit"...

tchrist

Well yes. No vale un higo seco is about that.

Cerberus

Oh, really!

I just guessed.

Actually, isn't that English? Not worth a fig?

tchrist

Well, it's not worth a dry fig.

KitFox

2:15 AM

The English translation rather gave it away.

tchrist

But we don't say that in English.

Cerberus

Ah, yes.

tchrist

They do say it in Romance.

Cerberus

@KitFox I refused to read that!

Actually, dried figs can be good.

This is the perfect delirious conversation, by the way.

KitFox

Are you delirious?

Cerberus

2:17 AM

I an enjoying myself.

KitFox

Did you fall in love?

tchrist

Prega che vene lo papa santo is grammatically screwed up: it should be in subjunctive, not indicative.

Cerberus

A little bit. I fell foul of drink, rather. But some amorous interaction did take place too.

tchrist

Whatever language that's supposed to be. :)

KitFox

@tchrist Only if you are not insane.

tchrist

2:17 AM

che venga probably.

KitFox

@Cerberus Good for you. I thought it was all this language talk getting your Dutch modesty in a twist.

Cerberus

@tchrist Yes, it sounds almost like Cameron's hated style (hated by Jez in hac ipsa camera).

tchrist

Salvatore was a little wicked, and a simpleton. He wasn't insane. But you can see how running around where he did he would get all his languages jumbled up, plus the Latin from copying by hand ancient texts.

I should say naughty, not wicked.

Cerberus

@KitFox Dutch modesty? There is no such thing. We possess only uncouth boorishness.

KitFox

You are drunk.

tchrist

2:19 AM

Dutch, or Flemish?

Cerberus

Dutch.

KitFox

giggles and hides

Cerberus

Les Flamands sont plus polis que nous.

@KitFox hiccup

KitFox

@tchrist And here you are, calling him out on fractured grammar.

@Cerberus Smellier too, from what I hear.

I preferred Foucault's Pendulum to Name of the Rose.

tchrist

Well, if he can't tell what is from what might yet be or might have been, no wonder the poor sot got himself in a possle of troubles.

KitFox

2:21 AM

Although both are side by side in my library.

Cerberus

@KitFox Un petit peu, peut-être...

@tchrist Prescriptivist!

KitFox

I refuse to be clever in French tonight.

stomps foot

tchrist

I'm going to someday write a story about some terrible thing that happens because an American misunderstood a Brit who was insisting that someone is there instead of that they be there, and so took something completely wrong.

KitFox

Curious.

Is that an American thing?

tchrist

What? It means two different things to us.

KitFox

2:23 AM

Is that a Brit thing then?

tchrist

I insist that she is here = I believe she is here and I am trying to convince you of it.

I insist that she be here = She isn't here but I demand her presence.

The Brits often use is where Americans use be, and so cannot distinguish those two cases.

KitFox

I am well aware of the subjunctive.

I had no idea the Brits weren't.

Mitch

The subjunctive ain't so big in the US eiher.

tchrist

Their sentences can actually read "wrong" to us, because we really do use the mandative subjunctive all the time, and they sometimes do, sometimes don't.

KitFox

Seems a strange premise, but then I've always thought that it would be intensely clever if the secret agent simply looked under the stapler for the password.

Mitch

2:26 AM

That second sentence would be resaid as 'I insist that she come here' (in the US)

sorry, who's 'we' and 'they' again?

Gigili

@Mitch I am here.

KitFox

@Mitch Us and them, silly.

Gigili

What now?

tchrist

You missed all the fun stuff.

Gigili

No fun stuff in this chat.

Mitch

2:27 AM

@Gigili Ha ha.. I quoted that, so you only arrived in the quote.

KitFox

Well, it's nigh on 10:30 pm in my UTC zone.

That means I am about to turn into a pumpkin.

tchrist

Atlantic time??

KitFox

Good night, all.

@tchrist Eastern.

tchrist

Oh, not Eastern. K.

Right.

KitFox

No. You didn't just "K" me.

Cerberus

2:29 AM

@tchrist It is not "proper" in England either to use is in such cases...

KitFox

growls

Cerberus

Rather the present subjunctive, like the Americans, or should.

Gigili

@Mitch Oh, I thought you insisted on me doing something. Where the hell are you quotation marks?

@KitFox Good night, sleep tight.

tchrist

@Gigili Salvatore was fun.

KitFox

@Gigili See you tomorrow?

Mitch

2:30 AM

@Cerberus oh. yeah. that's what I meant ''...that she come' is still in the subjunctive

Cerberus

nods

Gigili

@KitFox See you tomorrow. kisses @Kit goodnight

Mitch

@Gigili ah.. the close quote was never used. so frankly you and the rest is still in the quote. so yes, you are here, and yes, you came here, and well whether you should be here or not that's up to you.

Cerberus

Sleep well!

Gigili

@Mitch And down to you?

Well, I'll go to bed too. Good, umm, night. Even though it's 9 in the morning.

Cerberus

2:38 AM

Night!

All in good time.

Mitch

2:52 AM

possibly? but here's your end quote'.