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12:34 AM
One of the weird quirks of the English language is that we talk about "TV channels" and "radio stations" even though it would make just as much sense to talk about "TV stations" and "radio channels".
For that matter, it's also a little weird that audio broadcast radio is often called "radio" whereas television broadcast radio is not.
But there are good reasons for that, I think. Originally, the only type of radio equipment the average household was likely to have was an audio broadcast radio receiver, so it made sense to simply call that piece of equipment "a radio".
Later, television sets came along, and even though a television set is equally "a radio", that name was already taken, so we had to call it something else.
But that still leaves the question of why we say "stations" for radio but "channels" for TV.
It's probably because channel numbers are commonly used for TV, but not for radio.
 
@TerranSwett Isn't a station a place from which a radio programme is broadcast?
Different radio programmes or channels were broadcast from different places.
For example, Lili Marlene became immensely popular among soldiers on both sides during the War, partly because a station broadcasting it could be received over large parts of Europe.
Have television channels ever been broadcast separately and locally like radio channels?
Here, television channels were originally broadcast centrally and nationally.
You either received all or none, I think.
 
What, there was only one TV station for the entire country?
 
Of course it started with one.
Then more were added.
 
Yeah, I guess so.
 
It was only much later that commercial stations emerged.
 
12:48 AM
As long as I remember (and probably much longer), each TV station just broadcasts a single channel, or I guess it could broadcast two or maybe more.
 
Perhaps, by that time, most people had switched from antenna to cable, so it didn't matter any more whence the channel came.
 
But in any case, although stations and channels are totally different things, the way that you tune into a station is by tuning into the channel it's broadcasting on.
 
@TerranSwett Hmm cable or antenna?
 
Antenna.
 
OK.
 
12:49 AM
Much like how humans and phone numbers are totally different things, but the way that you call a human is by calling the phone number that they answer. :D
 
Maybe the terminology originated in a place where television had already switched to cable.
Right.
In Dutch, we would say radiostation or radiozender.
Usually just zender.
 
TV stations take much more broadcast bandwidth than radio stations do, and consequently the VHF band could only support a few. In most cases, three or four, whereas there were 10 to 20 radio stations available in their band.
 
For television, we would say kanaal or net.
Usually net.
 
I figured that when TVs were sold to the public, they probably used channel numbers instead of the actual frequencies. It's easier to remember "tune to channel 11" than "tune to 201".
 
When I was a kid we had four TV stations, including the "educational" one.
 
12:51 AM
"Channel 5" is easier than "79", and so forth.
 
So I guess there is some sense of radio's being more physical, more spatial, because it arrives through the air, while television arrives through a cable (not to my parents' house, by the way, who still remain unconnected to cable: they have satellite television).
 
You didn't "tune" to channel 11, you rotated a dial to the 11 spot.
 
Yeah.
And since the settings were labeled with channel numbers, presumably it seemed only natural to call them "channels".
 
Rotated, really?
 
@Cerberus They all used to arrive "through the air."
 
12:53 AM
"Channel 5 is my favorite channel" sounds a lot more natural than "channel 5 is my favorite station".
 
That's what "broadcast" means.
 
@Robusto Yes, but perhaps not by the time this terminology crystallised.
4 mins ago, by Cerberus
Maybe the terminology originated in a place where television had already switched to cable.
 
What are you talking about?
@Cerberus No, it didn't.
 
*by the time, sorry
How do you know?
 
This terminology originated well before there was Cable TV.
@Cerberus Because I fucking grew up with it.
I remember well before there was ever cable TV.
 
12:55 AM
Well, it may not have originated in your region or country.
 
@Cerberus You are out of your depth, doggy.
Also your element.
 
Cable television is from the fifties.
Not even you are that old...
 
@Cerberus So am I.
In any case, it's even more support for what I'm telling you. Channels of TV were available before I knew of cable TV.
I really don't get why you're trying to manufacture these fabulous origin stories when I'm here telling you the truth.
You've fallen in love with your own fantasy.
 
1:47 AM
Stations and channels are different, at least in the US:
> Unlike with analog transmission, ATSC channel numbers do not correspond to radio frequencies. Instead, a virtual channel is defined as part of the ATSC stream metadata so that a station can transmit on any frequency but still show the same channel number.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:53 AM
@Cerberus "Nobody" had cable TV in the 60s, and few in the 70s. It didn't really take off until the 80s.
I know this is hard to understand, but it is unfair and unrealistic to blindly assume that most of America is Manhattan.
 
@tchrist Oh, that is very hard to understand.
I have always assumed most of America was Manhattan, my mistake.
 
1 realize it's a Dutch thing, the whole New Amsterdam loss.
 
Thank you for letting me know.
I am enlightened now.
I thought America was a small island.
At any rate, the thought was that perhaps the terminology became standardised at a time and place where this distinction made sense (radio through the aether, television by cable). It is just an hypothesis.
Or even less than that.
 
It takes decades for innovations from the littoral vorderlands to seep into mainland America.
I think my folks didn't get cable till after I was in college.
Not sure; I stopped watching at 13.
We had channels 3?, 5, 7, 9, and 11 out Chicago; 2, 4, 6, 10, and 12; 13 was out of Rockford. Maybe 3 was actually Madison or from across the pond; it didn't come in very well.
They were paired so ABC, NBC, CBS, and PBS each had a channel in both cities, usually right next to each other on the dial. So 4 paired with 5, 6 with 7, 10 with 11, etc. 10 and 11 were PBS, which is where the kids' programs were. Well, and 9: 9 was WGN out of Chicago, which was its own thing.
And that's all you got. The Milwaukee channels were clear, the Chicago ones a bit noisy. 13 wasn't good, and 3 wasn't worth trying.
We did watch channel 9 a lot.
But 2 paired with 12 for CBS. Dunno why. 4/5 were NBC and 6/7 were ABC.
It was a simpler time. And no, there just wasn't cable available.
So saying that "cable TV is from the 50s" just isn't fair.
I wonder whether they paired adjacent channels so if there was bleed it was still the same programming, at least during prime time.
People had these massive antennae on their roof that you had this primitive fully-wired controller connected to that you could use to crank the motorized electrical gears at its base to rotate it every which way to try to get things to come in better. Usually this was futile.
8. 8 was from across the pond. It came in so poorly you probably only got something on it you could watch a few times a year during weird weather.
I think it was out of Grand Rapids. Michigan. Transpondian.
It basically wasn't a channel for us.
Rockford was a little better than Madison.
But in both those cases I wonder whether they just didn't broadcast with enough juice.
We were 45 minutes from Milwaukee, 75 minutes from Chicago, 60 minutes from Rockford, 90 minutes from Madison. And Grand Rapids is a can't-there-from-here-unless-you're-a-seagull.
Where of course minutes=miles, as it should always be.
We of course had only VHF channels, which is why 2–13 was all you could ever get. Anywhere.
Very high frequency (VHF) is the ITU designation for the range of radio frequency electromagnetic waves (radio waves) from 30 to 300 megahertz (MHz), with corresponding wavelengths of ten meters to one meter. Frequencies immediately below VHF are denoted high frequency (HF), and the next higher frequencies are known as ultra high frequency (UHF). Common uses for radio waves in the VHF band are digital audio broadcasting (DAB) and FM radio broadcasting, television broadcasting, two-way land mobile radio systems (emergency, business, private use and military), long range data communication up to...
> Radio waves in the VHF band propagate mainly by line-of-sight and ground-bounce paths; unlike in the HF band there is only some reflection at lower frequencies from the ionosphere (skywave propagation). They do not follow the contour of the Earth as ground waves and so are blocked by hills and mountains, although because they are weakly refracted (bent) by the atmosphere they can travel somewhat beyond the visual horizon out to about 160 km (100 miles).
> They can penetrate building walls and be received indoors, although in urban areas reflections from buildings cause multipath propagation, which can interfere with television reception. ... Occasionally, when conditions are right, VHF waves can travel long distances by tropospheric ducting due to refraction by temperature gradients in the atmosphere.
That's why weather mattered.
And why occasionally you could get things skipping across the big water.
I remember Dad trying to explain band frequencies for radio and TV to me, and AM and FM and all, from before kindergarten. All I remembered was that day and night were different in their propagation of the different radio frequencies for reasons of big words.
So like mid 60s. He was a bit techogeeky for his day, but that means radio stuff.
 
3:39 AM
I love radio stuff, and anything related to the em spectrum!
 
 
5 hours later…
8:32 AM
Summer 2020.
Enjoying summer to its fullest.
 
9:02 AM
I dunno, I never smelled too many flowers
@Gigili It's been raining here often, I enjoy hearing it drumming outside
 
9:24 AM
so hungry
if there is a meal delivered to me, that would be nice.
 
 
1 hour later…
10:29 AM
@Mitch great one, mate. But hers was greater.
 
 
2 hours later…
12:18 PM
@tchrist Chicago had 2, 5, 7, 9, and 11. Respectively, CBS, NBC, ABC, WGN, and WTTW.
NBC was WMAQ, if I remember correctly, ABC was WLS, and I'm not sure what CBS was. I thought it might have been WBKB, but apparently not.
 
12:38 PM
What is the meaning of material characteristic? "Characteristic of a material"?
Or "important characteristic"?
 
Probably it means "physical characteristics."
 
Interesting! I haven't thought of this option. Thank you!
 
np
 
12:51 PM
Oh. On that image, what is the meaning of generates process trend?
Sounds weird
Material characteristic that represents performance parameters (e.g. cell count, viability, yield) and/or generates process trend and knowledge.
What was that supposed to mean?
0
Q: Meaning of "generates process trend"

CowperKettleFrom a pharma document that describes the parameters that are monitored and studied during the manufacture of an antibody drug: Non-critical output attributes: Material characteristic that represents performance parameters (e.g. cell count, viability, yield) and/or generates process trend and kn...

 
1:08 PM
@CowperKettle Good question. I'll bet my son would know. If you don't get a satisfactory answer, let me know and I'll shoot him a text.
@tchrist: Is there a name for a W that looks like a V overlapping another V? Like in the New Yorker logo?
I thought there was a name for that, but I can't recall it.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:49 PM
@Robusto It seems to be called a crossed W. It could be part of a sans serif font, or a serifed font.
 
3:00 PM
@Xanne Thanks.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:22 PM
@RegDwigнt: This is maybe Neely's best video yet. Lots to chew on here. ^
Well worth the half hour it takes to digest.
 
it is a great song
 
And more complex than you thought!
 
6:30 PM
@Robusto It is not serif, missing the strokes
 
6:59 PM
@Gigili I think @Xanne means that the character could be used in either style font.
 
7:55 PM
No rose that in a garden ever grew,
In Homer's or in Omar's or in mine,
Though buried under centuries of fine
Dead dust of roses, shut from sun and dew
Forever, and forever lost from view,
But must again in fragrance rich as wine
The grey aisles of the air incarnadine
When the old summers surge into a new.
 
8:23 PM
sighs
 
 
1 hour later…
9:33 PM
@Robusto I saw that thumbnail and completely ignored it. I wonder how many people did the same.
Didn't even occur to me it could be him.
 
9:58 PM
@CowperKettle I guess this is where the phrase is from? biopharminternational.com/…. Something about monitoring processes on a continuum of criticality. One wonders if this is why the FDA is slow with drug approvals and manufacturing approvals.
I would guess this piece of work cost the US taxpayer a bundle.
 

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