English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

kiamlaluno

01:14

So, what should be done with a user who says "DRY, KISS, and DIE" to another user, linking those words to pages that explain the meaning of acronyms that have nothing to share with what is being said? Also notice that the link for DIE takes to no place.

english.stackexchange.com/users/3085/…

nohat

02:12

Oh for god's sake this vgv8 user is way more trouble than he's worth

we are a Q&A site for civilized people, not a babysitting service

3

kiamlaluno

02:28

@nohat: That's a nice definition. :-)

I mean, both are nice (and valid) definitions.

Kosmonaut

03:57

I am getting really tired of this guy, myself.

I have been starting to wonder if he is doing this on purpose, as a massive troll.

It is starting to cause confusion and grief on the site outside of those of us trying to manage the off-topic content.

PLL

07:43

By the way, have others already seen this question from meta.serverfault:

14

Q: Can we just get rid of vgv8?

It's been clear for a while that he/she is posting solely for the purpose of trolling, so instead of just a suspension, why not delete the account altogether?

The question itself is a bit blunt, but the comments and answers are pretty thoughtful and enlightening.

It also shows that even on a much larger site, he was already considered a seriously disruptive troll.

RegDwight

09:40

Heh, and now we have this:

0

Q: Why were my questions closed and deleted?

I'd like to understand why my questions on English phrases, expressions, words usage, meaning, grammar and/or definitions were closed. What are out of this english.stackexchange.com board in them? What are conventional symbols in definition of a language? Does English have taboo-ed (unp...

discussion deleted-questions moderation close-reasons

Haha, I must say that's a rather handy list of questions to delete. (^_^)

@PLL That was an excellent read, thanks a bunch.

Nyuszika7H

Hi! :)

RegDwight

09:57

Hello.

Nyuszika7H

>_<

oy!

RegDwight

Yeah, lots of oys here in the recent posts.

Nyuszika7H

Array.random = function(arr) {
    var index = Math.floor(Math.random() * arr.length-1) + 1;
    return arr[index];
}
ChatExtension.define('rchern', function() {
    var rcherns = ['oy.', 'oy', 'oy!', 'double oy', 'triple oy', '|:', '\\o/', '(:', '):', '<_<',' q:', '(;', '>_<', '^_^', 'o:'];
    $('#input').val(Array.random(rcherns));
    $('#sayit-button').click();
});

Then I just type /rchern and it chooses a random message from that array. :)

RegDwight

Haha.

So that's how rchern writes her stuff.

Then again, I got an email from her and it was like not her style at all, so official and cool.

Nyuszika7H

This userscript is needed (if you already have it, disable the older), otherwise this won't work.

RegDwight

10:01

I'm on Chrome right now...

Nyuszika7H

@RegDwight Then you don't need any extension, just look at your extensions and if you have a SEChatModifications one, disable/uninstall it, then just click the link to install the new one.

>_<

^_^

q:

RegDwight

I have no idea where to look. I only use Chrome cause my Opera is too outdated to let me use the chat.

Nyuszika7H

@RegDwight wrench -> Tools -> Extensions

RegDwight

Thanks! Looking...

"Sorry, no extensions installed"

Nyuszika7H

Ok, then just click that link to install the userscript, then refresh this page.

RegDwight

10:07

/rchern

Nope.

Hold on a sec.

Nyuszika7H

Copy-paste my code to your console (Ctrl+Shift+I [or Cmd+Alt+I on Mac])

10 mins ago, by Nyuszika7H

Array.random = function(arr) {
    var index = Math.floor(Math.random() * arr.length-1) + 1;
    return arr[index];
}
ChatExtension.define('rchern', function() {
    var rcherns = ['oy.', 'oy', 'oy!', 'double oy', 'triple oy', '|:', '\\o/', '(:', '):', '<_<',' q:', '(;', '>_<', '^_^', 'o:'];
    $('#input').val(Array.random(rcherns));
    $('#sayit-button').click();
});

RegDwight

ReferenceError: ChatExtension is not defined

Nyuszika7H

@RegDwight Hmm. Hold on a sec.

@RegDwight Try /help, do you see anything?

RegDwight

You mean in the console?

Nyuszika7H

@RegDwight No.

RegDwight

10:11

/help

LULZ me feels so stoopid right now.

Nyuszika7H

It's broken… did you refresh the page? Try Ctrl+F5.

RegDwight

/help

/rchern

Nyuszika7H

<_<

RegDwight

I even logged out completely.

Now let me just close the browser altogether...

Nyuszika7H

You clicked Continue when Chrome asked, right?

RegDwight

10:13

Sure.

When I check under extensions, it's listed and activated.

Nyuszika7H

Yeah, then try restarting Chrome.

RegDwight

Done just that. Let me try again.

/rchern

Nyuszika7H

That shouldn't send the command itself even if there's no such command. :/

RegDwight

I think I'll just type OY. That's so much faster.

Anyhow, I'll get back to this later. Have to leave now. TTYL.

Nyuszika7H

oy!

|:

FX_

13:03

hi all

is there a way to get a look at the history of deleted comments?

RegDwight

@FX_ I don't think even devs can do that. IIRC, deleted comments vanish completely, never to return.

FX_

@RegDwight: I'm kind of sad cause one of my comments is discussed on meta as being too harsh, and since it was deleted, I have no way to show it was not offensive in tone (or to realize that I was offensive, for that matter)

RegDwight

That being said, if you're referring to the question for which Kosmonaut is inexplicably getting flak on meta, it's just marked as invisible to users with less than 10k. I can still see the question, the answers, and the comments.

FX_

3

Q: Why is this place becoming so mean (and how to we fix it)?

This could just be me, but I'm seeing a big uptake on hypercritical comments and aggressive down voting lately here. It's like there's a cadre of power users trying to make a name for themselves by being mean to others. Can we do something to make this forum fun again?

discussion tone

@RegDwight: so, I have to ask you, you're a real power user, and you soon will have a diamond next to your name

RegDwight

I don't see a comment of yours on the sign language question.

FX_

13:15

do you know if any of the mods has tried to contact vgv8 and discuss with him about the series of bad questions he streams onto the site?

actually, the correct link is here:

RegDwight

I don't know.

But they have their own ways, to which I have no access right now.

FX_

2

A: Why is this place becoming so mean (and how to we fix it)?

[Note: I will not comment on the general atmosphere on this website—just on criticism and correcting fellow users.] [Note 2: All mention of "a single user", "one user", "this user", etc. is not about you, @Smithco! I can assure you of that. I think this all rests on a terrible misunderstanding.]...

RegDwight

@FX_ If you commented on smithco's answer, I can't see that comment.

FX_

@RegDwight: was deleted; his original translation from French was incorrect, which I pointed out

the Nohat edited the answer to fix it, and deleted my comment

kiamlaluno

@RegDwight: The answer was different, and FX_ pointed out that it was not correct, when it was reporting what "à la carte" means.

3

A: Diacriticals and non-English letters in anglicized loan words: keep 'em, dump 'em, italicize the words, or what?

Historically, diacritics were dropped to save money. If you had a printing press, you could buy the extra characters with the markings or save money by using the plain characters. Those little character blocks were expensive. Today, writers have less of an excuse. You can take an extra few sec...

english.stackexchange.com/posts/13351/revisions

RegDwight

13:25

Oh well, I wasn't there when it happened, but editing an answer in response to comments, and then deleting the comments that have been dealt with so as not to confuse future readers doesn't sound like an incorrect course of action.

FX_

@RegDwight: no, I'm not complaining about it

but, in this case, it means that I can't defend my comment against accusation that it was too harsh

RegDwight

Not saying that you are, just trying to disentangle the situation one knot at a time.

FX_

(not that it matters much in the grand scheme of things, of course)

RegDwight

Yeah, in the grand scheme of things I would have never expected that people would call Kosmonaut mean!

And we would have to defend us.

FX_

13:38

15

Q: Can we just get rid of vgv8?

It's been clear for a while that he/she is posting solely for the purpose of trolling, so instead of just a suspension, why not delete the account altogether?

support troll

that thread over at meta.serverfault resulted in a temporary ban

RegDwight

Yeah, seen that one. I like how vgv8's top question there is:

kiamlaluno

I think this is a perfect description for him. :-)

RegDwight

1

Q: Can I close my account with all my posts removed?

Can I close my account and be sure that my posts expropriation be discontinued with my leaving?

support

kiamlaluno

24

A: Can we just get rid of vgv8?

Too long for comment... vgv8 has all the hallmarks of someone completely self-taught, and proud of it. Unfortunately for him, his knowledge is full of holes and misunderstandings and he doesn't have the personality to weather the process of having those hammered out of him without some indignati...

FX_

@kiamlaluno: yes, I read this answer, and I recognize it a being quite thorough; I think, were I able to think for it so long, and write it well, I might have come up with a similar conclusion :)

I was trying to look at vgv8's recent and past statistics, to see if he was showing signs of improvement

and his ratio of closed to valid questions is actually diminishing over time!

3 of his last 5 questions were closed (with one very recent that might actually end up closed)

I think he should be given some time out, if only to cool down

and he has what I believe is the first Godwin point I've seen on EL&U: english.stackexchange.com/questions/13253

kiamlaluno

13:47

The problem is also that he doesn't seem to understand what the others tell him.

FX_

@kiamlaluno: and he's proud of it (see his frequent reference to “I am write-only”)

RegDwight

Oh noes not write-only again. He's so on a roll with that one.

kiamlaluno

If he thinks that what I write is provocation, then he is not able to understand English as much as I am not able to understand Chinese.

RegDwight

Sometimes I wonder what he would say if I had a talk to him in Russian.

kiamlaluno

I can proof he is not write-only.

RegDwight

13:49

Hm, that wasn't intended to be two lines, fat fingers. Now it's one. Better.

kiamlaluno

If he would be write-only, he would have noticed what I wrote. :-)

I was going to star the post, but you changed it. What a shame.

RegDwight

@kiamlaluno to be fair, write-only doesn't imply understand-only or understand-at-all.

kiamlaluno

@RegDwight: I know, but he should not be reading, if he would be "write-only". :-)

RegDwight

Okay, now I officially no longer understand what write-only means, in any context, ever.

kiamlaluno

@RegDwight: I wonder what he means, actually.

RegDwight

13:53

I though it was meant to mean that we could write data to his brain.

But not read it out.

In practice, I think the exact opposite is true.

kiamlaluno

Anyway, the fact you don't know what it means and he keeps to use it is in line with the "character".

FX_

so, should an experienced and trusted user of the site open a thread discussing this issue of his behaviour on meta, so he can respond and maybe come to some sort of agreement?

RegDwight

Umm, er, um, there are so many threads dealing with him on meta already.

3

A: Why were my questions on English meaning, usage and grammar closed and deleted?

This is not an answer to vgv8's question; instead, I want to ask a larger, related meta question. What I know: He doesn't understand why his questions aren't welcome. He's no stranger to suspensions (and also). His actions are driving others away from this site. What I don't know: Why on e...

kiamlaluno

Maybe he means "write-only" as "read protected". :-)

RegDwight

I think Dori just needs to convert that into a question.

@kiamlaluno Maybe he doesn't know it himself, but just likes the phrase for some obscure reason.

I mean, one of his questions was "what does it mean?"

FX_

13:57

I love psmears's answer to that question, if only for taking the time to do it so thoroughly

I have opened a bounty on a random question he answered on the main site, to transfer him +100 in thanks, I hope I will not take flak for this...

RegDwight

Yeah, he's got a massive +1 from me.

I'm just afraid that that answer might be too thorough to be actually read and understood.

FX_

@RegDwight: but that only demonstrates further the problem

kiamlaluno

@RegDwight: Oh, yes. When Martha wondered why he thinks it can be used in reference to humans, he replied "who is referring to humans?"

RegDwight

God, just run into this, sometimes I have no freaking idea what he's talking about

-3

A: How would you feel about allowing questions in foreign languages and translation questions?

I feel freaking bad (if to put it mildly) and try to prove me otherwise hoping that this is correct answer. And the rationale unders this is quite twisted since my question on Russian proverb was just closed but on English (American) saying or phrasal colloquial usage or meaning of a phrase ...

kiamlaluno

The problem is that the example he reports is "I am write-only".

RegDwight

14:03

Some of his stuff just doesn't make sense on any level whatsoever, even if I switch my internal parser to Russian and try to read between the lines.

FX_

ok, quick poll: if I were to ask a new meta question, with the text from Dori’s answer and adding “This was posted by Dori here, but I agree with her so much that I wanted to actually open it as its own thread”, do you think Dori could/would take offense?

Dori's answer I'm referring to is:

kiamlaluno

@FX_: I don't think she would.

FX_

3

A: Why were my questions on English meaning, usage and grammar closed and deleted?

This is not an answer to vgv8's question; instead, I want to ask a larger, related meta question. What I know: He doesn't understand why his questions aren't welcome. He's no stranger to suspensions (and also). His actions are driving others away from this site. What I don't know: Why on e...

kiamlaluno

OK; I have my theory about who vgv8 is, and I can proof it.

RegDwight

Yeah, I think she might even be relieved if that finally sparkles a discussion.

FX_

14:05

@kiamlaluno: you've said too much or not enough

kiamlaluno

@FX: Strange, I am usually referred as "who doesn't speak a lot".

Don't take I am saying I am read-only, though.

FX_

@kiamlaluno and that, dear Sir, is duly starred

@kiamlaluno: anyway, go on, you captivated your audience, now for some Enlightment!

kiamlaluno

OK; I will say my theory. If you don't want to see it, you can cover your ears. I mean, cover your eyes.

He is a robot!

RegDwight

Now I want to see the proof.

kiamlaluno

He says he is write-only, and that when he says "I am write-only" he is not referring to humans.

RegDwight

14:09

Ha

QED.

kiamlaluno

Therefore, he must be a robot.

RegDwight

Or a sponge.

kiamlaluno

That was my second possibility, but sponges are not write-only.

FX_

A sponge makes no sense, because net connectivity is usually terrible underwater

RegDwight

Aren't all the most important Internet cables like underwater?

kiamlaluno

14:12

@FX: That would explain how he creates sock-poppets.

@RegDwight: That is what I was going to say.

He connects to Internet through one of those dorsal cables.

Is dorsal cable the correct term in English? I know that is the translation of what we say in Italian.

RegDwight

No idea. It's clear what you mean, though.

kiamlaluno

I am glad it is; there is somebody who is not able to understand what I say, even if i write in his first language. :-)

FX_

it's not dorsal cable, it's backbone

network backbone, Internet backbone, etc.

RegDwight

^ This.

kiamlaluno

That is what I meant; in Italian is la dorsale Internet.

FX_

14:20

I am create a nwe vgv8 question on meta, quoting some of Dori's answer; would you agree to give it look when it is posted, and give me your opinion about it?

I don't like writing this kind of text, so I'd welcome one or two person checking whether it's offensive, whether it is direct enough, and so on

kiamlaluno

@FX: Sure.

FX_

0

Q: What should be done regarding vgv8's stream of low-quality and off-topic questions and answers?

I agree so much with Dori's answer in this thread that I thought it was worth making it into a thread of its own. There has been a string of off-topic and low-quality questions (and, to a lower extent, answers) from user vgv8, that many users have expressed annoyance (whether in comments, on meta...

discussion

all comments welcome

kiamlaluno

I don't understand why the chat suggest me "FX", but I read "FX_", close to your posts.

FX_

EL&U doesn't allow 2-letter pseudos, but SO used to when I opened my first account

kiamlaluno

@FX: It seems perfectly fine, to me. I will enter in vgv8-mode, and give a different reply.

Robusto

14:28

What up, dawgs?

FX_

@Robusto hi

kiamlaluno

@FX: I see. You are FX on SO, but not on english.SE. I guess the chat suggests your SO username, then.

FX_

seems like it

kiamlaluno

@FX: Thank you; it makes more sense now, to me.

Robusto

@RegDwight: You still on, or are you decaying away slowly?

Although I guess one could decay while still present.

RegDwight

14:37

I'm still on, contemplating whether Dori's original links should be included in @FX_'s question.

Robusto

@FX_: I replied to your "word spectrum" question. Basically I think the Mac dictionary gets carried away with itself.

A few months ago I read this:

amazon.com/Proofiness-Dark-Arts-Mathematical-Deception/dp/…

and it colored my thinking on the patterns people impose on data.

FX_

Well, I am an avid reader of Tufte and like very much studies on how presentation of data influences thinking

RegDwight

So it imposed a pattern on the data you have about patterns people impose on data?

Robusto

@RegDwight: Stop being so meta this early in the morning.

FX_

as a scientist, I think it is part of the necessary education

Robusto

14:40

I haven't had my Ritalin yet.

RegDwight

It's almost night here.

Robusto

Then you should stop taking your Ritalin.

RegDwight

►

Robusto

Nah, Bart took Focusin™.

Not the same thing at all.

FX_

but still, any analysis depends on data reduction, so totally rejecting this idea doesn't lead very far :)

RegDwight

14:41

In the version I saw, he ended up taking Ritalin after all.

Robusto

@RegDwight: You could be right.

@FX_: You could be right.

Hmm ... think I need a macro for that one too.

RegDwight

Robusto is so agreessive today.

Robusto

Word.

But I'm much milder when my Ritalin kicksin.

@FX_: The point is that conclusions can be drawn from data, but one has to be alert to all the bullshit that spurious "analysis" can foster.

RegDwight

Jammitin?

Robusto

@RegDwight — I don't need drugs to help with the physical act of love, tyvm.

RegDwight

14:45

I'm just leaving a few pointers for future reference.

I'm here to help.

FX_

@Robusto: yeah, there is lots to do to stop the bad analysis performed daily in mass media

RegDwight

Everyone, not just you.

And any time, not just today.

FX_

my favourite example is:

from CNN's live coverage of the 2008 US presidential election

Robusto

The BIG MEANINGLESS CHART. Oooh, look at the pretty colors!

It must MEAN something!

FX_

the relative sizes of bars, compared to actual numbers, is simply mad

I use it in my lectures at the university, when introducing statistics

RegDwight

14:48

FX_

@RegDwight: yeah, a classic!

RegDwight

I think you should just forget about CNN altogether.

Robusto

Seife talks about that sort of thing as well. Like the whoopee charts Quaker Oats used to show how their oatmeal drastically reduced cholesterol. When the scale is from 190 to 210, an 8-point drop looks enormous. When it's from 0 to 210, not so much.

RegDwight

That's like quoting Rush Limbaugh in your lectures and saying, "he's not quite right!"

FX_

Robusto

14:49

@RegDwight: Wait, your map shows the Commies are advancing on Berlin again!

RegDwight

My maps always show that. Always.

Robusto

Or at least the Poles.

Do you have a "Bring Back The Wall" bumper sticker?

RegDwight

I don't have a bumper.

How's that about avoiding your question.

kiamlaluno

@FX_ They used a logarithmic scale. ;-)

Robusto

Forget about CNN, MSNBC, and especially the Ministry of Propaganda known as Fox.

RegDwight

14:51

Fair and Balanced!

Robusto

Fear and Bullshit!

RegDwight

Note the and!

In related news, I never understood how winning people's hearts and minds could work by bringing them Shock and Awe.

Robusto

Here's JS on CNN:

►

kiamlaluno

What is the new program that replaced "Larry King Live"?

Robusto

But here's something on your favorite Soviet Agent, @RegDwight:

jon stewart glenn beck

►

kiamlaluno

14:56

There was even a Twitter; go figure.

RegDwight

I should point out that where I live, Jon Stewart is actually broadcast by CNN, not Comedy Central.

That's why I haven't seen the last 1000 shows or something. Can't stand the bullshit that surrounds the show.

Have to watch it online.

kiamlaluno

(To reply to myself, it's "Piers Morgan Live".)

FX_

I do watch Colbert online, the guy is so much fun

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…