English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

RegDwigнt

18:51

I stopped watching painful documentaries. What is even the point.

Watching people suffer does not alleviate their suffering.

And if it makes the viewer suffer, well done. Now you've increased the number of people suffering.

Mitch

19:18

@RegDwigнt that's why I only watch comedies

Except for Adam Sandler movies. Those are tragedies just by him being associated.

Yes, what I'm saying watching an Adam Sandler movie is as bad as living in a bombed out district of Syria.

No..i'm saying Adam Sandler himself is as bad as those bombed out districts.

Robusto

21:25

@Mitch When people ask me why I don't like to go out on boats, I say, "If I want to be sick in the water I'll get in the tub with my iPad and watch an Adam Sandler movie."

RegDwigнt

22:25

@Robusto unless it's Punch-Drunk Love, of course.

Random factoid of the day: the French are so into cheese, they even call their pie charts "camembert".

skullpatrol

srsly?

RegDwigнt

You didn't know? Well now you know.

That's what I'm here for.

Diagramme circulaire

Un graphique circulaire ou graphique en secteurs, aussi appelé camembert en France, est un type de graphique utilisé en statistiques. Il permet de représenter un petit nombre de valeurs par des angles proportionnels à ces valeurs. D'usage courant en économie et le monde des affaires (pour leur présentation « élégante ») ou dans les médias (presse/magazines, télévision, Web, résultats de sondages…), ils le sont moins dans le milieu scientifique car ils représentent moins bien les données et facilitent moins leurs comparaison que les autres types de diagrammes. En informatique, ils sont notamment…

skullpatrol

and here I always thought it was due to William Playfair

RegDwigнt

Of course "camembert" is colloquial. The full official term used in maths and statistics is "diagramme en camembert".

Because you can't be French and use one word where three will suffice.

skullpatrol

hmm

William Playfair

William Playfair (22 September 1759 – 11 February 1823), a Scottish engineer and political economist, served as a secret agent on behalf of Great Britain during its war with France. The founder of graphical methods of statistics, Playfair invented several types of diagrams: in 1786 the line, area and bar chart of economic data, and in 1801 the pie chart and circle graph, used to show part-whole relations. As secret agent, Playfair reported on the French Revolution and organized a clandestine counterfeiting operation in 1793 to collapse the French currency. == Biography == Playfair was born in 1759...

RegDwigнt

22:36

Imagine sitting there one day and thinking, let me invent pie charts.

Unimaginable, I know.

But Scots don't have much in terms of entertainment.

skullpatrol

looks like the coronavirus has infected 3,000 people in India

> more than 3,000 citizens had been quarantined after displaying symptoms.

RegDwigнt

When will they start quarantining all the millions of people displaying symptoms of mass hysteria?

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Any and all.

RegDwigнt

All those regular mass hysterias every couple years are just a ploy by the pharmaceutical companies.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt I'm still waiting for the haggis charts.

RegDwigнt

22:44

They make all the governments of the world stock up on this or that product of theirs, then a couple years later when the products have expired they are just silently tossed in the bin.

@Robusto you can have a Scotch egg chart.

skullpatrol

"hysteria" spreads a lot faster these days over the internet

RegDwigнt

@Robusto that only tells me that you still haven't watched Punch-Drunk Love.

So you're not qualified to comment.

@skullpatrol yeah it also dies off faster because the next hysteria is just one click away.

So the pharmaceutical industry needs to be really quick to turn it into a profit.

Poor pharmaceutical industry.

skullpatrol

trump turned it into a presidency, poor trump

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Don't need to.

skullpatrol

perhaps, even a re-election

RegDwigнt

22:49

Nah, Trump turned fuck all into fuck all. He is actually so bad at everything he does, at one point he lost all the money that he had. Somehow nobody seems to remember anymore.

@Robusto be like that.

Robusto

I can't be other than what I am.

RegDwigнt

@skullpatrol what you mean, perhaps? I'm certainly voting for him again. As well as the next five times after that. As does every Russian I know.

@Robusto you're literally not the same person you were a mere 20 years ago.

As in, not just figuratively. But every single cell in your body has been replaced.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt I'm not the same person I was five minutes ago. So what?

RegDwigнt

@Robusto so check back again in 90 minutes after you've watched Punch-Drunk Love.

You certainly won't be the same person after that.

Anyway.

Robusto

I don't want to give that time to Adam Sandler. Life is too short to deal with him.

RegDwigнt

22:52

Yesterday I actually saw that Wes Anderson has a new movie out.

Robusto

Orly?

RegDwigнt

@Robusto Roger Ebert gave it 3½ stars.

His maximum was 4, as you well know.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Get him back from the dead and maybe he can talk me into seeing an Adam Sandler movie.

RegDwigнt

> The film is exhilarating to watch because Sandler, liberated from the constraints of formula, reveals unexpected depths as an actor. Watching this film, you can imagine him in Dennis Hopper roles. He has darkness, obsession and power. His world is hedged around with mystery and challenge.

That is Roger Ebert. Talking about Adam Sandler. And not on April 1st.

rogerebert.com/reviews/punch-drunk-love-2002

I shit you not.

I never do.

@Robusto yeah, lemme go find that trailer. Looked very promising.

The French Dispatch - Official Trailer (2020) Wes Anderson, Bill Murray

►

Robusto

@RegDwigнt He had a thing for Russ Meyer too.

RegDwigнt

22:56

> You know the movie has an incredible cast when Edward Norton, Willem Dafoe, Saoirse Ronan, and Christoph Waltz all had to be put into "also starring"

Robusto

Roger Ebert, for all his wonderfulness, loved movies maybe too much.

@RegDwigнt Well, that's only because he had that in his contract from the days when he was making $25 million a picture.

tchrist

0

Q: Phrase for when there is no point in speaking because you'll be met with excuses or rebuttal

This question doesn't fit because the excuses/rebuttals may be valid, the point is the responder will immediately set about looking for them and doesn't really care if they're fixable obstacles or not. The purpose of the responder is to either defend their current fatalism or to use the statemen...

RegDwigнt

@Robusto not Battlefield Earth and not Deuce Bigalow. And not all the others. You know as well as I do that that's what people read him first and foremost for. All the movies that he hated. And all the inventive ways that he found to express his hatred and disgust and despair.

tchrist

As Wittgenstein put it, "wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen." — John Lawler Feb 8 at 17:37

Robusto

@RegDwigнt How can you stand being wrong on the Internet?

tchrist

23:00

@Robusto He uses a ladder.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto his bestselling book was literally titled "Your movie sucks".

@tchrist what, that bloke can't think of "falling on deaf ears"?

Robusto

@RegDwigнt And yet he had a fondness for many, many films that I wouldn't walk across the street to see.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto well yes. Like Rashomon. Fuck that shit. Greatest movie of all time my ass.

I watched it specifically because of Ebert and it fucking sucked is what it did.

Robusto

QED

RegDwigнt

The longest 80 minutes of my life that felt like 8000 minutes that I'm never getting back.

@Robusto point is, I can only say that after having watched Rashomon. I couldn't possibly say it before, and even if I did, I would have no arguments to support my case.

tchrist

23:03

Rare indeed is the man who having nothing to say does so.

5

Robusto

Still, he was a mesmerizing raconteur. Especially with a beer in his hand.

RegDwigнt

Feb 10 at 0:37, by RegDwigнt

I've only read the whole Bible, start to finish, for much the same reason I watched Titanic.

Feb 10 at 0:38, by RegDwigнt

I like my opinions informed and I like to actually argue the point.

tchrist

There was someone on NPR today with an accent from the north of England who kept saying recount close enough to how I say recant that it kept throwing me.

Robusto

Ebert could talk you into liking things until you actually experienced them. Then you see them and you're like, "Wait, this is taffeta. Why did I ever think I might like taffeta?"

RegDwigнt

Anyway. I'm hoping they will play the new Wes Anderson in that one theatre that I got free tickets for as present for Christmas.

Robusto

23:06

@RegDwigнt Did you contact Mr. Anderson with your request?

tchrist

I had forgotten how much I miss cardinals.

Robusto

Catholic or avian?

Or numerical?

RegDwigнt

@Robusto I didn't, for I don't want his time to be spent on me, I wish for it to be spent on making movies.

Robusto

That's very generous of you.

RegDwigнt

I know. It's Valentine's, after all.

I'm not always generous, but when I am, I am very.

tchrist

23:09

@Robusto Cardinalis cardinalis (not your Cardinalis sinuatus).

I'm winging my way back from Wisconsin.

Where it was ten below this morning in Lake Geneva.

The cardinals were brilliant in the sunlight against the fresh-fallen snow.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist tell me about it. I spent the last couple days shitposting on every MuseScore thread. I have nothing at all to say, but you could fill a large Bible with all the shit I've said regardless.

tchrist

Boulder sees neither cardinal. If it had a stray, it would likely be the grey one.

Robusto

@tchrist Yes, I miss cardinals too. They loved the tree in front of my house in MA, where I hung a feeder with seeds embedded in tallow.

OK, peeps, this has been an absolute riot, but I need to go to the store now so we can have dinner tonight. So ... chow for now.

Laterz.

RegDwigнt

Yes. Lators.

I must be off myself.

tchrist

I've seen a grey one down just over the CO/NM border, but they were sinuatus.

skullpatrol

23:13

cya

tchrist

@Robusto ciao for now, chow for later

RegDwigнt

My tomorrow's piano student's mom invited me for brunch before the lesson, because it's her birthday.

tchrist

odd date

RegDwigнt

I bought up all the Polish confectionery in the town I could get. Which as you can imagine was very hard to get on such short notice.

tchrist

Polish is not normal on confections there? Must not be catholic.

RegDwigнt

23:16

She's originally from Poland, and that's about all I know about her. We've only spoken once before. So I couldn't think of anything better.

tchrist

I have a Polish aunt. She's very nice.

Well, my uncle's wife, you understand.

RegDwigнt

I've been trying to learn "happy birthday" in Polish, but it's not entirely unchallenging even for me.

tchrist

She'll never not have an accent because she finished her PhD in Poland first before moving here.

RegDwigнt

How to Say "Happy Birthday" in Polish | Polish Lessons

►

tchrist

She's completely fluent in English by now, just permanently accented. It's cute.

RegDwigнt

23:18

There. Know yourself out.

It's actually in the thumbnail. Don't even have to watch.

tchrist

I'm on a plane sans headphones.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist welcome to my world.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt You're cute?

RegDwigнt

@tchrist "wszystkiego najlepszego z okazji urodzin".

tchrist

Would you like to buy a vowel?

She does speak Russian, too.

RegDwigнt

23:20

@tchrist Well to be fair the Russian one's not much better if you're unprepared "S dnyom rozhdenya".

tchrist

Well, she says. I haven't heard her.

I've heard her speak Polish to her brother. But it might as well have been Russian for all I could make out.

RegDwigнt

I'm well equipped for the Polish. I can pronounce everything just fine and all the words make perfect sense, it's just that I can't memorize them.

Precisely because they are so similar to Russian.

tchrist

Takes one to know one.

RegDwigнt

Sep 21 '19 at 14:41, by RegDwigнt

We should consider that all Slavic languages even today are still mutually intelligible to a frankly obscene degree. It's a well documented curiousity, as well as the fact that Holland and England are on the exact opposite end of the spectrum, with even neighboring dialects sometimes being mutually unintelligible.

tchrist

I'd ask you to compare the distance with some pair of languages I would know, but that's probably not going to work.

RegDwigнt

23:23

Sep 21 '19 at 14:51, by RegDwigнt

I have a co-worker from Sofia who speaks Bulgarian with her daughter. I understand everything they say even though I couldn't produce it myself. (And so conversely, I just speak Russian with them. And they don't bat an eye. And the girl is like four years old, she probably doesn't even know that Russian exists. But she's able to understand me.)

Sep 21 '19 at 14:52, by RegDwigнt

Now try being a Swabian and travelling just 50 miles east to Lotharingia, or 50 miles west to Bavaria. For all the mutual intelligibility you will experience, you might as well be coming from Mars.

Sep 21 '19 at 14:54, by RegDwigнt

And those are mere dialects of the same language. Whereas Russian, Bulgarian, and Polish are not just separate languages, but indeed languages from three different language families. Measuring thousands of miles across in every which direction.

Dec 31 '19 at 8:15, by RegDwigнt

Someone from Sofia will have less trouble understanding someone from Warsaw than a Socal will have trying to understand a Geordie.

Dec 31 '19 at 8:15, by RegDwigнt

Even though Polish has six cases, no articles, and nasal vowels, and Bulgarian has no nasal vowels, only two cases, and a definite article.

tchrist

You could say Dutch and Englihs or French and Spanish or French and Italian to convey some of it, or Danish and Norwegian or Spanish and Portuguese or Portuguese and Galician, where the final three pairs are all at least unidirectionally intelligible but the first three pairs are not so such.

Maybe Dutch and German? Can't say.

Oh I spluged my deletion.

RegDwigнt

Interestingly, as I'm only just noticing now, at this age I'm still getting east and west confused.

Swabia is not east of Lotharingia and not west of Bavaria.

@tchrist not one bit. You turn on Dutch TV, I do not understand a word.

They have to write it down. Then I understand like all of it.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Seems like you could use some re-orientation.

@RegDwigнt That's funny. Written Portuguese is almost completely understandable to a(n educated, fluent) Spanish speaker. But spoken it's virtually opaque.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist To that Prof. Lawler would probably respond with a different German quote: "Was Hänschen nicht lernt, lernt Hans nimmermehr".

tchrist

@RegDwigнt At least that isn't unWittingly archaïc.

RegDwigнt

23:29

What little Hans hasn't learned, big Hans never will.

tchrist

Oh just call him Handy you know you want to.

RegDwigнt

Dec 31 '19 at 8:16, by RegDwigнt

And now that tchrist is here, he can weigh in on the mutual intelligibility between Catalan and Cuban.

tchrist

Not very.

RegDwigнt

Only took you six weeks. But thank you. I knew you would.

tchrist

Cuban is just ehpanol sin lah esseh.

RegDwigнt

23:31

Nah we discussed that one before. You and I.

Maybe three years ago like.

Cuban is not "just" anything.

tchrist

Catalan has Castilian intonation but little else. Cuban does not; it's sing-song.

The pitch variation in the Caribbean dialects is crazy.

RegDwigнt

This last December I actually met someone from Cuba for the first time in my life.

tchrist

They are always up and down and up and down and up and down.

RegDwigнt

The first thing she told me was how she used to have Russian lessons in school.

tchrist

Castilians and Catalans have a flat-pitched delivery.

@RegDwigнt In what language did she say this to you?

RegDwigнt

23:32

So rather than me finally getting to hear some live Cuban, she tried to speak Russian for the rest of the evening.

@tchrist English.

tchrist

Eeek.

RegDwigнt

Or maybe Spanish?

I don't remember.

We all spoke like ten different languages at that party.

tchrist

I've been to those.

RegDwigнt

There was a singer from Argentina and a singer from Iran.

tchrist

But not since university.

RegDwigнt

23:33

And they made me sing in Russian which I literally never do for anyone but did do for them.

tchrist

Boris Godunov?

RegDwigнt

So yeah, long story short, my exposure to Cuban to this day is mostly from watching Buena Vista Social Club or some other documentary or two.

@tchrist no thankfully not. But quite a lot of stuff that I didn't actually know the lyrics for, but the lady from Iran was so eager to hear it she googled for the lyrics.

tchrist

A Portuguese friend called me from New Jersey yesterday. He had an impossible time trying to understand AAVE of Harlem. Even the Mexicans were easier to understand, and they were speaking Spanish not English.

RegDwigнt

The music I just played by ear on the spot.

tchrist

He had had no idea the "black English" could be so impenetrable.

I guess he doesn't watch those kinds of movies.

RegDwigнt

23:36

Well certainly not The Wire.

The rather interesting flip side of that coin is that all the dialects you do understand all sound the same to you.

I can't tell someone from the Bronx from someone from New Jersey, from someone from SoCal, from someone from Wales.

My brain just files it all under "English".

Even when I hear Geordie, while I do realize they're talking with an accent, I just ignore it altogether.

The only thing that always sticks out to me is Aussie and NZ.

But even that didn't used to be the case just a couple years ago.

I guess it's one of those things that you can't unsee once you're aware of them.

tchrist

How do you play by ear if you only googled the libretto?

Needs melody. Chords even.

Plane descending rapidly now.

RegDwigнt

Oh I did know the melody.

And the chords you just apply on the fly.

tchrist

I-IV-V7 :)

RegDwigнt

Actually no, as chance would have it.

Some rather weird secondary dominants.

tchrist

i-iv-VII?

Ah.

RegDwigнt

23:44

Or, like, B7-Em, B7-C, Am-Em.

So all very much by the numbers except for the C that you need to be able to correctly identify.

tchrist

I see. Have to ditch the pooter now. Hasta la Shasta.

RegDwigнt

Anyway, yeah. Like, imagine someone asked you to sing "Love me tender" right now. You know the melody, but you probably don't know all the lyrics by heart. So they google the lyrics for you and off you go. And then you just have to watch out for that middle bit with the weird chords.

That kind of situation.

tchrist

Makes sense.

RegDwigнt

Catch you tomorrow.

Ima go fetch some sleep.

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