English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Matt Эллен

09:42

@Vitaly He makes a good point: "Designing software that's easier for machines is questionable at best."

I'm not sure case insensitivity is better though

We need uniformity between developers. It's like people who don't like the indentation rules in python. Make non-uniformity a syntax error and suddenly things are easier to read

Gigili

10:13

@MattЭллен chuckles

Hola.

Matt Эллен

Bonjour!

Unbuntu's AltGr functions are > MS Windows'

windows gives me 12 things, Ubuntu gives me 72 things

unfortunately there is very little overlap in output

Gigili

@MattЭллен Searching...

Matt Эллен

I have all this in Ubuntu:
|¹²³€½¾{[]}\ł@¶ŧ←↓→øþæßðđŋħjĸł«»¢“”nµ¡⅛£¼⅜⅝⅞™±°¿ΩŁ®Ŧ¥↑ıØÞÆ§ÐªŊĦJ&Ł<>©‘’Nº×÷

that might be more than 72

Vitaly

@MattЭллен Windows must hate you. It gives me at least four hundred stuff.

Matt Эллен

on Windows I have:
¦€áéíúóÁÉÍÚÓ

@Vitaly yeah, I feel it constrains me because I'm British.

Vitaly

10:25

@MattЭллен this is my Windows keyboard layout for, let's say, English: shorttext.com/H8AHDRU

Matt Эллен

@Vitaly I feel short changed!

oh, windows also toggles 4 spaces at the beginning of a line with Alt Gr + K

actually I think that's a userscript thing for SE I have installed.

Vitaly

blogs.msdn.com/b/michkap/archive/tags/keyboards

Matt Эллен

10:45

ëêé but no top left to bottom right accent :(

õ_ó

ò

oh, ok, that's weird

ò_ó

ó_ò

Gigili

d-_-b

Matt Эллен

is that thumbs up, or big ears?

or head phones?

Gigili

11:02

Yes, earphones.

Matt Эллен

ah!

Robusto

11:26

@Vitaly Windows gives me OVER 9000 stuff.

6

Q: Use of *deadpool* as a verb

I recently came across this term while examining a set of properties in a JSON feed relating to a startup company: ... "deadpooled_year": null, "deadpooled_month": null, "deadpooled_day": null, "deadpooled_url": null, ... I searched for the word, and find several non-authoritative source...

C'mon, peeps. Just one more vote and my question is reopened. Your chance to Stick It To The Man! Ganbatte kudasai!

Vitaly

@Robusto There's stuff, and then there's stuff.

Robusto

@Vitaly There's stuff, and then there's nonsense. Hence, stuff and nonsense.

Ah, I was too late to see your response.

Why do people self-redact?

Vitaly

8 hours ago, by Robusto

@Cerberus I'm too tired to discuss this seriously. Suffice to say that I prefer case-sensitivity in the naming of functions, objects, properties, interfaces, and all that stuff. I'll give you some serious input tomorrow if you're still interested. Meanwhile, good night.

I'm interested.

Robusto

OK, perhaps the #1 reason is that case-sensitivity makes all names look instantly like what they are. For example, mySimpleEventHandler is easy for the eye to find amidst a welter of other names. It doesn't look like MYSIMPLEEVENTHANDLER (which is all by itself hard to read), or mysimpleEVENTHandler or any of the other permutations.

Also, we can enforce naming conventions more easily.

Vitaly

@Robusto (OK, I'm trying to cerberus here:) But why wouldn't someone just continue to write something that way in a case-insensitive language?

As to naming conventions:

7 hours ago, by Cerberus

You can also do type $type...

Robusto

11:42

@Vitaly It's also more flexible. We can name classes beginning with capital letters — InputWithPromptText — and then refer to them in local variables beginning with lower case: inputWithPromptText can be a local member of a class without any namespace violation.

The point is, case-sensitivity enforces at least one aspect of the naming convention all by itself. If you write MySIMPLEeventHandler, your editor (if you have a good one) will throw a syntax error.

Vitaly

But you can also do Apple $apple, can you not? If you click on that 7-hours-ago link, you'll see I presented essentially the same argument (classes/methods).

Cerberus didn't buy it and said it was no important reason.

There was even a link to the Wikipedia article about the Java/JS naming conventions.

Robusto

Yes, I agree with your contentions.

And my isNan() problem is always flagged by my IDE before it breaks code. Which is cool. Truth to tell, I've had my knuckles rapped by that one so often that I almost never make that mistake anymore.

Vitaly

Well, yeah.

4 hours ago, by Vitaly

And FYI, every modern IDE has autocomplete. Typos can be almost completely discarded as a reason. I say “almost completely” because it's possible to come up with some convoluted scenario where modern IDEs don't suffice for the sake of status games.

Robusto

Another reason is that we can distinguish constants from regular variables. A_CONSTANT_VALUE is immediately recognizable as a constant, not to be fucked with.

Vitaly

Well, yeah.

8 hours ago, by Vitaly

Naming convention (programming)

In computer programming, a naming convention is a set of rules for choosing the character sequence to be used for identifiers which denote variables, types and functions etc. in source code and documentation. Reasons for using a naming convention (as opposed to allowing programmers to choose any character sequence) include the following: * to reduce the effort needed to read and understand source code; * to enhance source code appearance (for example, by disallowing overly long names or unclear abbreviations). The choice of naming conventions can be an enormously controversial issue, w...

Robusto

11:52

The real reason is probably more on the order of "I have used both and find case-sensitivity suits my purposes better. YMMV."

And, yes, the point about differentiating static vs. instance methods is another good reason to use case sensitivity.

IMO.

Matt Эллен

(é_è);

KitFox

Hung over @Matt?

Matt Эллен

Heh :D naw, I've just found out how to get some of the combining diacritics to work! I didn't drink enough for a two day hangover on Saturday.

How was your weekend, @Kit?

KitFox

It was busy. But nice. Nothing urgent.

Or critical.

Just some Portal playing and I think we washed all of our laundry yesterday.

@Robusto I cast the last reopen vote.

Matt Эллен

Sounds pleasant :)

Robusto

12:07

@KitFox Muchas gracias!

KitFox

De nada.

I'm not sure any of you were here when I made the announcement.

yesterday, by KitFox

I felt no remorse when I incinerated my Weighted Companion Cube.

Matt Эллен

(Ô_Ô)

I spent hours trying to find a way to save it

Vitaly

Of course there's a way to save it. You didn't actually incinerate your own companion cube, did you? You monster. — Oak Nov 5 '11 at 0:43

KitFox

Well, it's no matter. I am sure I will get some cake as soon as I finish this last level.

Matt Эллен

well, not the first time. The first time I wanted to solve the puzzle, so I just followed the instructions

@KitFox oh, yes, the cake is lovely. Or at least the one GLaDOS gave me was

KitFox

12:12

I don't care about "rescuing" an inanimate object. I'm sure that makes me somehow essentially evil.

Matt Эллен

@Vitaly I heard that too, I just couldn't figure it out :(

KitFox

<—will be evil for cake.

Matt Эллен

<- is not surprised

KitFox

pouts

Matt Эллен

hugs it's OK! noöne is perfect

KitFox

12:16

I had two adult beverages yesterday.

I am feeling much better now.

I should restock my chocolate cache though.

Matt Эллен

I played drinking games on Saturday. I didn't get a hangover, but for some reason my right arm really hurt in the morning.

KitFox

I can think of so many reasons why that might be the case.

Matt Эллен

I'm going to blame cycling on fully inflated tyres for the last couple of weeks

ObsessiveFOSS

Can somebody explain the semi-arbitrary posts here?

KitFox

@ObsessiveFOSS Where?

@MattЭллен Is that your braking hand?

Gigili

12:18

Here.

KitFox

@Gigili In this room?

Matt Эллен

@KitFox I think I lean on it more when I'm going over potholes

Gigili

@KitFox Probably. And hello.

KitFox

@Gigili Hello, sweetie.

ObsessiveFOSS

@KitFox Here. Room 95(See the Universal Resource Identifier)(URi)

Matt Эллен

12:20

@ObsessiveFOSS aka The Incomprehensible Room

KitFox

@ObsessiveFOSS Then no. Noöne can explain them. Noöne is meant to explain them. They simply are.

nods

ObsessiveFOSS

Isn't the main room for any SE site supposed to be at least comprehensible?

KitFox

Is there a problem if it isn't?

Matt Эллен

Aug 9 '11 at 0:51, by random

This room was placed in timeout for 2 minutes; the topic of this room is "aka The Incomprehensible Room" - conversation should be limited to that topic.

KitFox

high fives @Matt

Matt Эллен

12:22

we were told last year to keep things on topic

KitFox

And we have been very dutiful.

Matt Эллен

high fives @KitFox

@ObsessiveFOSS but never fear - when someone asks about English, we're on it like alcoholics on whisky

so long as someone is here, that is

KitFox

Which is mostly.

We span many time zones.

Matt Эллен

indeed

KitFox

And the owl never sleeps.

Matt Эллен

12:25

true, true

ObsessiveFOSS

Somehow, understood.

KitFox

Vitaly is really the only voice of reason, come to think of it.

The rest of us are b-tshit crazy.

If you'll pardon the expression.

(I hope you are not a bat.)

Vitaly

Dumbledore put a finger to his lips and twiddled them, making a bweeble-bweeble-bweeble sound.

Matt Эллен

what's the catch-22 situation? You can only leave the military if you're crazy, and only sane people try to leave?

KitFox

Sure!

Robusto

12:29

Gotta motor. Laterz.

Matt Эллен

CU

KitFox

Bai!

Vitaly

CU.

Matt Эллен

ÇÛ

KitFox

digs around in purse for Vitaly bait

Damn. Fresh out.

So much for being a master baiter.

Matt Эллен

12:31

rimshot

KitFox

Well, I'm sure you saw that one coming.

And speaking of penises, I must proudly announce that my son's foreskin now fully retracts!

I am sure you are all very happy to hear that.

Matt Эллен

Congrats! I'll wait for someone else to star that, though :D

KitFox

So I got to pass on the tradition of "washing the old man" to him yesterday at bath time.

ObsessiveFOSS

That's 'er interesting.... [Backs away slowly]

Matt Эллен

heh

KitFox

12:34

Yes, well, I certainly have couth.

In buckets.

No, wait, that's vermouth.

Where did I put that couth?

Matt Эллен

easy mistake to make

"Maybe it was stolen by criminal mastermind Lex Couther. Couthest of all criminals"

KitFox

Oh god no.

You didn't just say that.

Matt Эллен

OK, I'll attribute it to someone

— Anonymous

KitFox

I have some unctuous in my desk, but the couth appears to be missing.

@MattЭллен Hahaha.

Matt Эллен

:D

KitFox

12:42

So...what the hell am I doing today?

Matt Эллен

shutting down the servers for Summer?

KitFox

Uh, no.

I took the site down Friday, though. Hmm. So where did I put those notes?

Matt Эллен

Warming up the servers for Winter?

KitFox

Oh right. Checking to make sure my leave balance is correct.

Holy crap. I have 210 hours of leave accrued.

Wahoo! Party around the globe time!

Carlo_R.

@Gigili "It really should be the other way around, now I see why Carlo asked that question. It's confusing. " I think this comment is very offensive. Please, stop.

jrg

12:55

Folks,calm down.

KitFox

Huh?

Are people agitated?

Matt Эллен

stops foaming at the mouth

KitFox

What did I name that class where is put padding around the div?

Matt Эллен

wider-div?

KitFox

No, that's not it. I wouldn't name something like that.

Matt Эллен

13:00

info-box

KitFox

Nah.

waits

Matt Эллен

words-of-note

KitFox

Close. I think it's this one: notice

Matt Эллен

ah! nice

KitFox

I don't think it is entirely sensible, but I am sure it made sense at the time.

Matt Эллен

13:04

sounds good if the class is to be reusable

KitFox

So. Uh. Did @jrg actually want anything?

Matt Эллен

I don't know. maybe someone came in a flagged a bunch of messages

KitFox

I didn't see any flags. Did you?

Matt Эллен

none

KitFox

Hmm.

Well.

jrg

13:06

There was something about 20-30 minutes ago.

Matt Эллен

must have been that Lex Luthor pun.

It is pretty bad

KitFox

Could be.

I'm pretty suspicious of the attribution as well.

It did nearly cause a riot.

We are just bouncing off the walls today.

Matt Эллен

I think we can trust the attribution. Anonymous are legion, after all.

KitFox

I need a snack. brb

Matt Эллен

toodle pip

KitFox

13:12

Mmm, crackers.

@Matt, I can't shake the feeling that I might not get any cake.

I mean, I'm pretty sure that Glados said that I would be baked and then there would be cake.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox But surely you can trust GLaDOS?

They wouldn't try to kill you in a bath of flames

KitFox

If you can't trust a computer, who can you trust?

Matt Эллен

Exactly

Gigili

Hehe, luckily I was AFK.

Oh I cannot talk.

Matt Эллен

you cannot?

Gigili

13:17

My account is suspended.

F1.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox I imagine you've very valuable too. Have you seen any other people testing the portal device?

I bet you're the only qualified person

Gigili

@Carlo_R Which part exactly did you find offensive?

KitFox

@MattЭллен Yes, I am a very good subject. Glados said that I must be the pride of {subject hometown here}.

Matt Эллен

:D

Gigili

@Carlo_R I guess you meant to flag my other message:

2 days ago, by Gigili

> What should we do with the [comparison] tag?

2 days ago, by Gigili

You should eat it.

OK, we can try again.

KitFox

13:26

Was it him? I thought someone might have gotten agitated over my mentioning penises.

Which would explain why I didn't see the flag.

But apparently we were all quite out of hand.

Oh how disappointing. I checked something off my list that I haven't actually finished yet.

Gigili

Yeah, I waited to see a flagged message since yesterday and pah, I missed it.

KitFox

Oh you are 10K? Congratulations!

Gigili

Thank you.

Matt Эллен

congrats @Gigili

now you'll occasionally see smut that appears in chat rooms, too!

Gigili

Eh thank you.

KitFox

13:45

Hey @Matt, did you get my message when I pinged you from The Overlook?

I'm never sure if those show up.

Matt Эллен

just now? No I've had no message just now

I've had them before, though

KitFox

No, like yesterday or something.

When it wasn't a reply, but just a spontaneous ping?

Matt Эллен

Oh, yes, It is in my inbox.

but I didn't notice it yesterday. Sorry

oh, because I was in bed :D

KitFox

I'm not concerned. I just wondered if those showed up.

Matt Эллен

Yes they do

KitFox

13:50

Geezis, I am flighty today.

I think I've had too much coffee. I think that means I need...

moar coffee!

Matt Эллен

:D

KitFox

And cake. I really want some cake.

Matt Эллен

I thought you'd suggest beer. An antidote to coffee

KitFox

Mmm, beer. But not at work.

Hey! It's the Texas pirate!

Matt Эллен

no, not at work

KitFox

13:51

yarr!

Frank Science

May I speak English here to practice my English output ability?

KitFox

Certainly.

MetaEd

That will be more useful than speaking some other language.

KitFox

Marginally.

;-)

MetaEd

Mornin!

KitFox

13:57

Holla!

Frank Science

In the room, is it Tom who is playing computer alone.

Is it right?

It is Tom who is playing computer alone in the room.

I interchanged two part of the sentence.

KitFox

Is Tom playing computer alone in the room?

Matt Эллен

the second one is right. the first has switched is and it, but has not marked the sentence as a question

KitFox

In the room, is Tom playing computer alone?

Frank Science

But In the room is at the beginning of the sentence.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…