English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

12:29 AM

@marcellothearcane Because that's what they themselves called it: Englisc.

There is no such thing as “Anglo-Saxon” as a language. “It is in the records of the fifth century that the word ‘Anglo-Saxon’ first appears. Indeed it was King Æthelstan who, among other high titles such as Bretwalda and Caesar, first styled himself Ongulsaxna cyning, that is, ‘King of the Angel-Saxons’. But he did not speak ‘Anglo-Saxon’, for there never was such a language. The king’s language was then, as now, Englisc: English.” ―J.R.R. Tolkien — tchrist ♦ Oct 28 '14 at 19:05

The text following that one in Tolkien’s lecture notes is: “If you ever heard that Chaucer was the ‘father of English poetry’, forget it. English poetry has no recorded father, even as a written art, and the beginning lies beyond our view, in the mists of northern antiuquity. To speak of Anglo-Saxon language is thus wrong and misleading. You can speak of an ‘Anglo-Saxon period’ in history, before 1066. But it is not a very useful label. There was no such thing as a single uniform ‘Anglo-Saxon’ period.” — tchrist ♦ Oct 28 '14 at 19:06

If you find Chaucer readable, try the Gawain poet. It’s quite a bit harder, and rather different. — tchrist ♦ Oct 28 '14 at 19:10

We used to write the /ʃ/ sound using the digraph ‹sc› not the digraph ‹sh›.

Ship we spelled scip.

So Englisc and English are the same.

Æþelstan cyning was himself a West Saxon, but he did not call his language Saxon.

I don't think Tokien had a thorn on his typewriter. :)

Yes he did. You type ‹p› BACKSPACE ‹b›! :)

Call it pre-Unicode combining characters.

tchrist

12:49 AM

Knowing French won't help you one bit with Old English.

It does help with Modern English and even with Middle English a fair bit.

But knowing German will.

Low or High.

Old English is a kind of Low German, really.

Where Low and High refer to elevation not prestige.

The Low Countries wot wot.

Robusto

1:21 AM

@tchrist Well, that may be his opinion—and a well-regarded opinion to boot—but the fact remains that others have called it Anglo-Saxon.

> Old English (Ænglisc, Anglisc, Englisc, pronounced [ˈæŋɡliʃ]), or Anglo-Saxon,[2] is the earliest historical form of the English language, spoken in England and southern and eastern Scotland in the early Middle Ages.

> Old English, sometimes known as Anglo Saxon, is a precursor of the Modern English language. It was spoken between the 5th and 12th century in areas of what is now England and Southern Scotland.

I used to have a shelf in my office containing dusty tomes of Old English (now stored in boxes since I moved from Boston), some of which have names like "Anglo-Saxon Riddles" or "Anglo-Saxon Poetry" (or pottery, believe it or not).

tchrist

@Robusto They shouldn't. That's his point.

It's not a language.

SmokeDetector

2:34 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in username (91): Don't need v/s need no by Alpha Prime on english.SE

JBis

Anyone have an adjective describing something not black and white as in non binary?

Robusto

@JBis The normal way is to describe such a thing as having "shades of gray."

JBis

any other word?

Robusto

Variegated.

JBis

> having discrete markings of different colors

Robusto

2:41 AM

Look at its second meaning.

> 2. Distinguished or characterized by variety; diversified:

JBis

ok

mean in the sense of not one or the other but a in between. Not yes or no, but yesish or noish.

Idk if that fits

I guess I can just say its not b & w but gray

Robusto

I'd go with gray.

Jinx.

JBis

lol

ok thanks :)

Robusto

np

Robusto

3:03 AM

@tchrist The problem with "Old English" (which I was of course trained to call it as an undergrad) as a term for the general audience is that most people think that it describes anything from Hamlet to Beowulf —even Sir Walter Scott. I often will use the term Anglo-Saxon for those folks, and I do so without apology to Tolkien or my Old English instructor, Dr. G-----.

Side note: I hate that I can't use an em dash adjacent to starred italics: "... anything from Hamlet to *Beowulf*—even ..." had to be edited to put a space between the asterisk and the dash.

marcellothearcane

6:15 AM

@tchrist that's really interesting, thank you

Captain Bohemian

7:10 AM

last night I finally used my Gift Card in a newly-opened Family Mart for a XO-sauced fried noodles and corn stew, which originally cost 114 but the counter said they only cost 109 due to the discount as a result of buying the both together. Actually the quantity the noodles is so small though it looks delicious.

if there is no Gift Card, I wouldn't buy it because I don't think it ca resolve hunger do to its meagerness. Indeed, after finishing the both, I felt my hunger had not been completely solved, so I had a cup of instant noodles.

I got the Gift Card on April, 2018. I often thought about using it soon. Finally I used it, feeling a relief. I got it from a market investigator of sun-block. I think this kind of free money is good in that it can be used to exchange for food. I lack food very much. A ticket for food is meritorious for me; I would use it for expensive food with meager amount. Food is never too much.

Captain Bohemian

7:46 AM

hunger is such a trouble very difficult to solve because it occurs so frequently and requires cooked food to solve.

Captain Bohemian

8:22 AM

I am going to sort out litters in my room, hoping to finish soon.

Captain Bohemian

10:51 AM

need to go solving solving hunger now.

if there is a hunger solver, the time can be save to do other things.

RegDwigнt

11:02 AM

@Robusto inorite. Sometimes I have those really really good ideas that are really really good.

Most of them are in A♭ major for some reason.

SmokeDetector

12:36 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer (60): What is some poetry or famous lines/sayings on the "indifference to wealth and fame"? by Sunderam Saxena on english.SE

Matt E. Эллен

1:42 PM

ELL: Q&A site for people learning English
EL&U: Q&A site for people *still* learning English

Mitch

2:21 PM

Where is la bibliotheca?

Just as important, does it have a public ... whatever you call it, you know, I really gotta go.

The importance of learning language.

The difference between 'I gotta go' and 'I gotta go'

Matt E. Эллен

I gotta go

Terms and conditions apply. You library card may be forfeit if you fail to mention something you later rely on in Spanish class.

@Mitch Muñeca

Robusto

2:43 PM

@RegDwigнt Maybe because A♭ major (also its dominant key) are "grateful" keys for piano? In my own case, those chords lie soooo nicely beneath my hands.

Captain Bohemian

3:14 PM

@Malavika hi, sorry not give you any useful information.

@Malavika I actually have experienced a long struggle for a place to go and know the desperation which can arise therein.

@Malavika I had the feeling earlier this year that everyone in this world competes for survival - those who would smile are those who win a post, and if they lose the post, they can't smile anymore.

@Malavika not yet, I still have some issues.

@Malavika I will go to but I still have to deal with something before going.

I am in a wasteland without anybody to discuss related issues.

that's the result of not holding a position.

@Malavika I got a position as a teaching assistant in a university half a year after graduation, then after a semester I quit it. Then after several months I got a position as a research assistant in a research institute.

@Malavika but none of these positions really interest me. what I really want is to do PhD.

@Malavika no, I have long quit it.

@Malavika No.

actually I have encountered a lot of Indian PhD students when I was a research assistant.

I mean Indians coming here to do PhD.

actually PhD students here are not generally well paid.

@Malavika no

@Malavika mainland China government probably pays PhD students better than island China government.

I guess our government doesn't encourage research that much.

I don't quite understand how our government spends its money because I have never concerned about politics.

but I don't see a good place to do PhD here.

I have never applied for any of these.

England is not easy to go to study.

UK doesn't offer scholarships to foreign students easily.

most of UK PhD programs preserve scholarships to their own students.

or European students.

I have not tried to apply for even once in UK.

so don't know if UK admit foreign students easily.

but most UK PhD programs only offer scholarships to EU students.

I don't need to try now.

I do found there are few PhD programs in UK offering scholarships no matter where the applicants come from earlier this year, but I didn't try.

because I see they require something annoying.

they require the recommendation letters to be signed by the writers and use particular envelope.

that means I have to go to my alma mater to meet those professors.

other programs I applied for accept sending recommendation letters by email.

first, my alma mater is far away and I don't want to bother those professors, so I gave up applying FOR that program in UK.

Also, all UK programs require some kind of English proficiency certificate.

SmokeDetector

4:21 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Repeating characters in title (64): The person is called ---------------- by Englishmonger on english.SE

Captain Bohemian

4:37 PM

@Malavika I am sleepy and may go to bed soon.

@Malavika I haven eaten. Actually I only eat this meal today.

RegDwigнt

7:16 PM

@Robusto well yes I'm being tongue-in-cheek there.

You can gauge a piano player's progress by looking at their favorite key.

Children tend to think C major is the best.

Teenagers discover E flat major and go OMG dude mind blown.

Older folk quietly stick with A flat major and don't tell anyone.

0

Q: What the sentence means

Instead my antenna picks up messages sent by humans back in the United States. This sentence means instead my antenna picks up messages which are sent by humans back in the Unite States?

meaning

This is a new trend. Quoting the exact same thing twice, and then asking if quote one means the same thing as quote two.

@MattE.Эллен good effort. But I would say a minor correction is in order.

Really it's ELL that's for people still learning English. ELU is for people who gave up.

SmokeDetector

7:53 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in link text in answer, potentially bad asn for hostname in answer (82): What rule prevents this usage of commas: "this research, see references [1] and [2], has shown some success"? by shawn joseph on english.SE

Mitch

10:38 PM

Doidy-doidy-doy

RegDwigнt

@CaptainBohemian that is factually incorrect. Hunger does not require cooked food to solve.

You are really quite obsessed with kitchens and cooking. And to each their own. But you're in the tiniest of minorities with that obsession.

I am saying that as someone who cooks quite a lot. Yet even I can't claim that I need a kitchen. Or that a walrus even knows what a kitchen is.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Mostly punctuation marks in title (30): "Don't be ....." or "Be not ....." by Konstantin Volkov on english.SE

RegDwigнt

10:54 PM

@Cerberus I finally made an attempt to read the meta post linked from our home page, and I literally couldn't make it past the very first sentence.

How do you even cope with that nonsense. Don't you have stone tablets to translate from Aramaic into Hittite.

Actual fun, like.

> Many trans people have told us that they feel uncomfortable here.

That literally raises too many questions for me to even bother counting. It is weasel wording on more levels than there are levels.

It is beyond me how so many people can be wasting so much time discussing obvious tosh.

3

Then again, Twitter and Facebook exist, so what do I know. Shrug.

@Cerberus also, how come names are getting leaked like that. That is not cool at all.

The very last thing this trash fire needs now is a scapegoat.

tchrist

11:50 PM

@RegDwigнt You so, so do not want to know. The answer involves crazy-wrong SE communications with a news organization.

2

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…