English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mahnax

01:27

whistles casually

Jon Purdy

01:42

Just gave a huge well-researched answer and realised I did it while wearing an EL&U shirt. Fuck yes.

Mahnax

Congrats!

Jon Purdy

Also, hooray I’m back on chat after a long time.

Mahnax

Be right back, I'm bleeding for some reason.

Jon Purdy

Sweet, good luck.

Mahnax

Well, that was a lovely intermission from being comfortable.

I hate spontaneous nosebleeds.

Jon Purdy

01:49

Only ever had one. Middle of the night, wake up next to girlfriend, sit up, blood spills out of face.

Mahnax

They happen to me all the time.

Mostly when I get really hot.

Jon Purdy

Shout HERNGH and run to the bathroom. Girlfriend wakes up in a confused huff.

Mahnax

Hahaha.

Jon Purdy

Yeah, it was a dry winter night.

Mahnax

How cold do your winters get?

Jon Purdy

01:51

I knew one guy who had his nose cauterised because he had nosebleeds so often that he would pass out from blood loss. :P

So now he can't smell.

Mahnax

Wow.

That would really suck.

Jon Purdy

Um, I grew up in NH where we occasionally get sub-0°F but not often. Went to school in Rochester, NY where it was slightly warmer but windier, and I just moved to San Francisco, where I don’t think they get below freezing generally.

Mahnax

Hm, that doesn't sound too bad.

As far as temperature goes.

Jon Purdy

I don't really like the heat though.

It's only the beginning of summer here and already it's a bit too warm for my liking.

Mahnax

These days, I can't bring myself to enjoy anything above 18 or 20˚C.

Jon Purdy

01:54

Yeah, that sounds about right.

It doesn't help my situation that I immediately got a sinus infection when I moved here last week.

Mahnax

Thankfully it doesn't go much higher than 25˚C during our summers.

Jon Purdy

Because something evil is in bloom.

Mahnax

Unfortunately, I work in one of the most overheated building ever.

@JonPurdy Oh, yuck.

Jon Purdy

Where are you? Somewhere on the British Isles?

Mahnax

Right in the middle of Alberta, actually.

Jon Purdy

01:58

Oh, neat. Do you have Canadian Raising in your accent?

Mahnax

Hm, I don't know.

Jon Purdy

I do, but people don't usually notice.

The whole "aboat" instead of "about" thing.

Mahnax

No, I don't think I do, then.

I say "about".

I don't say "aboot", either.

Jon Purdy

Just took an accent quiz and it placed me as Southern. :/

Clearly something is amiss.

Mahnax

Odd.

Spare Oom

02:09

I took a "test" a few weeks ago to see what accent I have and it was way off. Put me in Northern usa Minnesota.

Mahnax

Link?

Spare Oom

Me or Jon? It was weeks ago and I didn't keep it.

Mahnax

Jon.

Spare Oom

Yeah I figured.

Mahnax

I didn't see your post until after I had typed "Link?", @SpareOom.

Jon Purdy

02:12

This one: youthink.com/quiz.cfm?obj_id=9827

Spare Oom

Funny that I was going to post that before he posted his, when I saw him say "aboot".

i lived in Wisconsin for several years, and they thought I had a southern accent.

My dad thought I'd acquired a northern accent.

Jon Purdy

Apparently you can't win.

Spare Oom

Yeah.

Mahnax

I've been labelled as having a Canadian accent.

Spare Oom

If I pick up accents every time I move, I'd need Henry Higgens to figure out where I'm from.

Jon Purdy

02:15

Heh, fun fact: the voice of Stewie on Family Guy is based on Rex Harrison.

They used to have more references to it when the show was new though.

Spare Oom

I don't really know that program.

Jon Purdy

That's fine. I really admire the creator Seth MacFarlane though, so I pick up on trivia.

Mahnax

I'm going, bye.

Jon Purdy

Laters.

Spare Oom

Bye. @Mahnax

Ok, now that test puts me as neutral. I think that's accurate.

@JonPurdy Do you pick up accents from people you hang around with?

Jon Purdy

02:23

Only if they're particularly different from mine.

Then there's more pressure to normalise, I think.

Spare Oom

I make an effort not to pick up a Southern accent.

Jon Purdy

It's not held in the highest regard. :/

Spare Oom

But I probably can't help changing a little bit.

It's actually a little difficult for me to understand.

That is, a deep southern accent.

Jon Purdy

Was going to ask you to qualify, yeah.

Spare Oom

@JonPurdy Any particular reason?

Jon Purdy

02:27

I don't have a problem with it. But Southern = redneck in many people's minds.

Spare Oom

Oh, and I knew a guy from Louisiana, who spoke neutrally around most folks, but gave an example of what he switched to when he went home. It was like a different language!

@JonPurdy Ah.

What kind of accent would you describe yourself to have? @Jon

Cerberus

I am Northeastern...

Hi!

I guess Northeastern is the closest it gets to British.

Spare Oom

Hi!

Cerberus

I don't pick up accents at all in my native language. My own accent is really sturdy.

Spare Oom

The quiz is for American accents. I wonder what I'd come out with a British accent quiz.

Cerberus

02:38

In English, however, I might pick up accents.

@SpareOom Yeah I know. You'd probably end up...I don't know?

I don't they Britain has any accent that is close to American standard.

Spare Oom

I don't pick up a British accent from watching British telly, but I could "fake" a Scottish accent after visiting.

Cerberus

Good.

Where would you be without one?

Spare Oom

But do they have tests for British accents?

Cerberus

No idea...

Spare Oom

gotoquiz.com/which_british_accent_do_you_have_1 ?

Not a British accent quiz. False advertising.

Cerberus

02:41

Yeah I can't find anything.

Jon Purdy

@SpareOom Um, northern Massachusetts region. Don't merge cot/caught, don't merge marry/merry/Mary, do merge bath/bat, do merge whale/wail.

Mahnax

is back

Hi.

Spare Oom

Years ago, I was talking with my Dad about accents and that's when I first found out cot and caught aren't pronounced the same by everyone. Then I started making a slight distinction.

Welcome back, @Mahnax

Mahnax

@SpareOom Merci.

Spare Oom

Bitte.

Mahnax

02:46

Möchten sie etwas Schokolade?

Spare Oom

Ja, danke schon.

Mahnax

I don't actually speak German.

Spare Oom

Gut! You'd find out how awful mine is.

But I don't speak French even more than I don't speak German. XP

Cerberus

Bath/bat sounds quite odd to me.

Spare Oom

@Cerberus Sound odd the same?

Cerberus

02:49

Or is it just the a that sounds the same?

@SpareOom Yes.

Spare Oom

Just the a.

Cerberus

All right.

Then I am less surprised.

Spare Oom

Unless you have an American/German accent.

Cerberus

Germans don't pronounce the th correctly?

Spare Oom

Theater sounds like te-ah-ter, I think.

Cerberus

02:50

Actually a very bad Dutch accent in English might pronounce the -th as -t too.

Spare Oom

Do they have a th sound?

Cerberus

@SpareOom In German, yes.

@SpareOom No.

There are two th sounds, by the way.

Think and they.

Spare Oom

I can't think of a German word with a th sound. Yes two th sounds in English.

Cerberus

Voiceless and voiced.

Spare Oom

I have a friend who says thus with the wrong th and it drives me nuts!

Cerberus

02:52

Neither German not English, nor French, nor Italian, has either of the English th sounds.

@SpareOom Haha, but why does he do that?

Spare Oom

Thus is voiced!

Cerberus

D'oh.

Unvoiced sounds like fuss.

Spare Oom

I have no idea. I've mentioned it to him and claims it's the same.

Cerberus

Odd.

Spare Oom

Deaf?

Cerberus

02:53

Could be.

Spare Oom

I think he just doesn't listen carefully.

Cerberus

But if you have mentioned it explicitly...

Spare Oom

But you see, I'm less educated as he. Maybe he doesn't take correction well.

At least it's not a common word and I don't have to hear it mangled often.

gotoquiz.com/results/which_british_accent_do_you_have_1

My result was Posh Totty! lol

Cerberus

Same here.

Spare Oom

What did you do with the questions that had nothing to do with the accent?

Cerberus

03:08

Oh, just filled in whatever struck my fancy.

You?

Spare Oom

Mostly true answers for me.

Clasical music, Vulgar for someone who is gross. And I put that I was from England.

I took it again and put haggis as my favorite word, and that I was from Scotland, and guess what? It came up I have a Scottish accent.

:D

Jon Purdy

I think voiced/unvoiced th have been in pretty much free variation for most of English history.

We say ð = voiced and þ = unvoiced mostly as a matter of convenience, because it’s more subtle than that.

(Old English.)

Besides, I can't think of any minimal pairs?

I guess loath/loathe, mouth/mouthe, &c.

Spare Oom

Yes.

Jon Purdy

I use the -the forms, but most don't.

Spare Oom

And try saying thither with both the same.

Jon Purdy

03:14

E.g., "mouth the lyrics".

I do say "thither" with both voiced though?

Spare Oom

I say thither with the first unvoiced and the second voiced.

@JonPurdy Interesting.

Cerberus

With and forthwith are funny.

Jon Purdy

@SpareOom How about hither? Zither?

@Cerberus How so? My with is freely voiced or unvoiced, but my forthwith is always unvoiced for both.

Spare Oom

I say both voiced.

Cerberus

Well, isn't that funny?

Spare Oom

03:26

Yes, for some reason forthwith sounds funny at this hour.

Cerberus

<giggling>

Spare Oom

If I ever knew how to type italics, I've forgotten. Would someone remind me, please?

Cerberus

*

Jon Purdy

@SpareOom Asterisks.

Spare Oom

Thank you so much @JonPurdy

Cerberus

03:28

**bold

---strikethrough

No idea how to underline.

Jon Purdy

Also thy and thigh.

There isn't underlining.

Cerberus

Good one.

Spare Oom

You guys are sweet not to make me look that up.

Jon Purdy

Whenever I see although written as altho I read it with an unvoiced th, so it sounds like a guy with a lisp saying also. :/

Cerberus

Ohh I have that too!

That inclination, I mean—not the lisp.

Jon Purdy

03:31

Tho you thay.

Tho thou thayetht.

Cerberus

Ahhhh!

Spare Oom

We'd never know if someone had a speech impediment. Myself, I tendd to stuttter a bbbit.

But you'd never know.

Cerberus

Indeed not.

Spare Oom

Sometimes I even type with a stutter, but I usually catch it.

Cerberus

@SpareOom Unless this is the beginning of your always typing like that.

@SpareOom Really?

That's funny.

Spare Oom

03:34

Nope, but I'll quit correcting myself.

Cerberus

There, you did it on the r in correcting.

Spare Oom

Really, I do stutter when I'm tired, but not about the typing bit anymore.

Cerberus

OK.

Spare Oom

Although, I had aphasia for a while a few years ago, and did really type strangely.

I couldn't count how many repeated letters I was typing. Double letters usually were 3-4 letters.

Jon Purdy

@SpareOom That's a very interesting phenomenon, but it must be very frustrating to actually experience it.

Spare Oom

03:37

Yes, sometimes I had a hard time getting passwords right.

And calling on the phone was almost impossible. I couldn't read the numbers right.

Cerberus

Wow, that's weird.

How did that happen?

Out of the blue?

I'm glad you got out of/over it.

Spare Oom

Nah, I had surgery for an aneurysm and it took a little time to recover.

Thank you.

The aneurysm was out of the blue though.

Cerberus

Oh, that sounds bad.

Aneurism in the brain?

Spare Oom

The doctors mentioned that I was an interesting case, because I had symptoms but it didn't rupture.

Cerberus

No idea what caused it?

Phew. Rupture sounds bad.

Spare Oom

03:41

@Cerberus Yes. And it was probably blood pressure related.

Cerberus

Hmm was yours very high? If so, did you know?

Spare Oom

I had a friend who had a ruptured aneurysm about 4 months earlier and he's still not recovered over two years later.

@Cerberus I was and am on blood pressure meds, but it went higher for some reason. I don't know why. It's under control again now.

I watch my diet better now. Low sodium, for example.

Cerberus

Hmm yes.

Spare Oom

It was strange. After I had my surgery, a whole lot of brain surgery patients came out of the woodwork; people I already knew, fully recovered so you'd never know.

Cerberus

Oh, there are that many?

I don't think I know of any.

Spare Oom

03:46

I have a friend who had seizures as a child and they fixed it later, but it was before I met her.

Jon Purdy

@Cerberus That's the thing, though. With many of them you wouldn't know unless they mentioned it.

Spare Oom

Right.

If it goes well, you can't tell unless you see the scar. Hair grows over it pretty well eventually.

Cerberus

@JonPurdy Yeah, I guess. But I would probably know if it were a (fairly) good friend.

Spare Oom

It was really interesting though. I tried to make sense of people talking, but along with that, I thought I heard the radiator whispering.

Weird stuff like that.

Cerberus

You couldn't understand people talking very well?

Spare Oom

03:49

Right. For several days, I couldn't understand much of anything.

Watching the telly was useless.

You can't ask them to repeat things.

But people couldn't understand me either, though I thought I was making perfect sense.

I kept a journal of how I improved the first few weeks.

You can see the change in my writing, the increase of vocabulary and ability to make sentences.

Cerberus

Wow.

So you could write?

Have your linguistic skills fully healed? You seem perfectly fine.

Spare Oom

Well, wield a pencil. The first things weren't much sense, but better than my speech.

Yes I'm fine now. (Here's where I could lie and tell you I used to speak 5 languages but I lost the all except my native one.) :D

Cerberus

Heh.

Spare Oom

My mom came to visit and help me linguistically. She made me play word games with her.

Cerberus

So have people close to you noticed any changes comparing before the aneurism and a year later?

Spare Oom

03:54

Actually, she knew what she was doing because she'd helped my dad after his stroke.

Cerberus

Wow, two.

What did you feel when you had the pre-aneurism?

Spare Oom

Only when I'm really tired, but you can get muddled in the head when you're tired anyway.

Cerberus

True.

I have to go to bed in 5, by the way.

Spare Oom

Ok, goodnight Cerberus.

Cerberus

I'm still here!

Spare Oom

03:56

I had a new appreciation for language afterwards.

Mahnax

He's always here…

Spare Oom

Ok ok! :D

Cerberus

It's only 5.56 am.

Spare Oom

ok, in 4?

Cerberus

@SpareOom Understandable.

Yes, in 4 now.

Spare Oom

03:57

And really, for the brain in general.

Cerberus

So did you feel pain, when the aneurism was building up? Or weir mind things?

Spare Oom

Both.

Cerberus

Ah OK. What exactly?

Spare Oom

All of a sudden. I was reading and then I couldn't understand what I was reading and I had a terrible headache.

Cerberus

Oh that sounds awful.

A headache different from normal headaches you had had before?

Spare Oom

03:58

I had to ask for help to read a form. And when they said what the word was, it was like, I know that word!

I really almost never have headaches.

So, yeah, worse.

Cerberus

OK.

And those fits of forgetfulness felt different from regular confusion or loss of concentration or tiredness?

Spare Oom

I asked a doctor friend about it a couple days after the headache, and she said I should have called an ambulance, but after the emergency was gone, she suggested an appointment.

The not being able to read was really different. It was almost mid-sentence.

Scary that I drove with the aneurysm for a week or two before it was diagnosed.

I remember almost getting lost only a couple miles from home too. I think that must have been related.

The landmarks didn't look right.

Cerberus

Wow.

Spare Oom

Anyway, bedtime for you, right?

Cerberus

Yeah, a sudden disturbance of your cognition combined with a weird headache...but I can understand that you wouldn't think of calling an ambulance. What if it's nothing? Etc.

Oh, yes, it's 6.04...

Mahnax

04:04

glares sternly at keeper of the gates

Cerberus

Good evening to you!

And you too!

Spare Oom

Yeah, and if I'd called during the episode, they might not have understood anyway.

Midnight here now. My bedtime too, actually.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Yeah, I'm still here.

Spare Oom

Goodnight all.

Mahnax

Good night, Narnian and keeper of the gates.

Cerberus

04:06

@SpareOom Night!

@Mahnax And you, good pre-night!

Mahnax

@Cerberus Thank you.

Cerberus

Ciao!

poof

Cerberus

04:32

I couldn't sleep, so I came back for a minute.

And what do I see?

@JonPurdy Your colours are all wrong!

Well, not all.

You got your 1 and your i and your e right.

I can tell that these are a real synaesthete's letters and numbers.

Your f is also almost right.

As is your 6.

And I guess I should let your b go because it is the complementary colour.

And I respect your d, although I would pick brown myself.

And I presume by "black" you mean your zero is transparent?

I do hope so.

Okay, now I'm off again.

Jon Purdy

05:08

Heh, "wrong".

user19161

10:53

@matt Boo!

Matt Эллен

hulloo

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…