English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

00:38

@Færd Yeah, Gandhi should be viewed as a child of his time.

Færd

06:59

@Cerberus Maybe, or maybe not. Egalitarian ideas against caste and (anti-black) racism have been around for thousands of years now, maybe even in India. Misogyny and homophobia are much more understandable in the recent past than caste and racism. And I guess he spent enough time in other countries to encounter other views on these issues?

RegDwigнt

11:27

0

Q: does adjective clause can modify adverb clause?

I have read this sentence and got slightly confused. when my mother, who was only 18 she had me, told me I should wait until I got older to marry Lucy. I knew she was really I met the right person in this sentence when my mother is an adverb clause and who was only 18 she had me it adjective clau...

Short answer: no. Long answer: and "does" cannot modify "can", either.

RegDwigнt

12:44

> 去年まで単音で入力してたのですがー
思い切って、色々音を重ねてみましたー
感想くだされー。

Hm. Okay. Apology accepted, I guess.

But why is this discussion titled " 室内楽のようにーーー"?

Mitch

13:31

@Cerberus Oops. I meant no disrespect to faeries. The Furies on the other hand, man, are they uptight.

Robusto

13:54

@RegDwigнt A Russian neighbor and I were talking chess and the subject went round to Alexander Alekhine. He pronounced the name Алëхин, but I'd always thought it was simply Але́хин. I didn't question him on it. Is that a variant pronunciation from some other dialect, perhaps?

RegDwigнt

14:34

@Robusto I say Алëхин, but fuck me if I know if that's right. It's one of those cases where everyone should collectively look it up, but instead everyone just goes with their gut feeling.

Alexander Alexandrowitsch Aljechin

Alexander Alexandrowitsch Aljechin [a'lʲɛxin] (russisch Александр Александрович Алехин, gelegentlich auch russisch Александр Александрович Алёхин (Alexander Alexandrowitsch Aljochin) geschrieben, in Frankreich und englischsprachigen Staaten mit der französischen Transkription Alexandre Alekhine; * 19.jul./ 31. Oktober 1892greg. in Moskau, Russisches Kaiserreich; † 24. März 1946 in Estoril, Portugal) war ein russisch-französischer Schachspieler. Er war der vierte Schachweltmeister. Die Aljechin-Verteidigung und der Aljechin-Chatard-Angriff sind nach ihm benannte Schacheröffnungen. == Leben == …

Well thanks for nothing Wiki. What you mean, this but also sometimes that. I had as much figured out myself.

Алехин, Александр Александрович

Алекса́ндр Алекса́ндрович Але́хин (распространённое написание и произношение «Алёхин» ошибочно; 19 (31) октября 1892, Москва — 24 марта 1946, Эшторил, Португалия) — русский шахматист, выступавший за Российскую империю, Советскую Россию и Францию, четвёртый чемпион мира по шахматам. Алехин вошёл в число сильнейших шахматистов мира перед Первой мировой войной, заняв третье место на петербургском турнире 1914 года, в 1920 году стал первым чемпионом РСФСР, а в 1921 году покинул Россию и переехал на постоянное место жительства во Францию, гражданином которой стал в 1925 году. В 1927 году Алехин выиграл...

This clearly says Алëхин is wrong. And links to the Great Soviet Encyclopaedia, where it is spelled Алëхин with a note that that's actually spelled wrong.

How many bottles of vodka do I need to understand this. And how many bottles of vodka did they need to put that in an encyclopaedia.

"Manchester is a city in London. Also it's spelled Liverpool, and we really mean England."

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Misleading link (15): does adjective clause can modify adverb clause? ✏️ by joe gates on english.SE

Kaspar

16:03

Hello @Gigili what language are you learning now?

@RegDwigнt It is interesting that although encyclopaedia is the British spelling, the preferred Oxford spelling is encyclopedia.

Gigili

17:08

@Kaspar Ohai Jasper! Currently Turkish

Gigili

18:02

I'm so grateful for the detailed and thorough email you sent in reply to my latest email, it was unbelievably helpful @Cerberus

Cerberus

18:29

@Gigili You're welcome.

I now remember you responded to that e-mail and I forgot to reply...

Have you made your decision yet?

SmokeDetector

19:12

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Repeating characters in answer (82): Where does the use of "why" as an interjection come from? by Serenity Rain on english.SE

RegDwigнt

19:57

What's an email?

Oh sorry, wrong window, I need to ask that on the main site.

Færd

20:14

Mueller has concluded his probe and so far not one American has been so much as charged with collusion with Russia, as far as I know. And there's the rumor that no indictments are coming up.

Cohen was charged with that (formally or not, I don't know), but he was not convicted on that count.

I remember I had the discussion of Trump being a Russian stooge in here, so I thought I'd give that a closure.

Færd

20:30

(Of course I don't have special trust in Mueller and had my own reasons to contend that large-scale collusion was more a mania than a fact.)

RegDwigнt

What is this all about. Do I have to read the news again or what.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt On the plus side, I guess it's impossible actually to get that wrong.

RegDwigнt

What is Mueller? Who is Russia?

37 mins ago, by RegDwigнt

Oh sorry, wrong window, I need to ask that on the main site.

Robusto

@Færd Closure? Good luck with that.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto I'm using a handpicked example there. In a rather popular Russian children's book, a father character whimsically explains English to his son by saying "you write it Manchester but you pronounce it Liverpool".

Robusto

20:38

@RegDwigнt Yeah, my dad never read to me.

Dec 31 '12 at 21:07, by Robusto

Supposedly Twain tweaked one of his British friends by feigning no knowledge of the place known as Niagara Falls. After several attempts by the Brit to explain to him what location he meant, Twain exclaimed, "Oh, you mean Niffles!"

RegDwigнt

Your Alekhine thingie made me think how Catherine the Great should have known better how umlauts work when she brought them to Russia.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Sounds like a severe case of dieresis.

RegDwigнt

Probably was. She's dead now last I heard.

Robusto

But she went down swinging.

RegDwigнt

So anyways, if you never saw the word before, as a native speaker you'd read the ye in Alekhine as a yo. That's just how it works. That's just what any native speaker would expect. (And, like, not down to personal preference or dialect or upbringing or whatever, it's an a-hundred-times-out-of-a-hundred thing.)

Now, Catherine or whoever, I'm just using here name as a proxy here, they decided it kinda sucked that it made perfect sense to Russians but no sense at all to anyone else ever, hence the dieresis.

But they got this one tiny thing wrong. They came up with this alternative to indicate when the ye is definitely a yo, but they came up with no way of indicating of when it is definitely not.

The Germans got it right. If you can't type or display ü, you just do an ue. And that's a thing that you must do.

In Russian, that's something that you neither must nor can if you want to.

Robusto

20:48

@RegDwigнt Interesting.

RegDwigнt

And so there's those couple edge cases where Russians see a word and don't know what to make of it. Помела comes to mind, which many will read as помёла if they don't know WTF that is, and these days basically nobody knows WTF that is.

With names, a famous example is that Artemiy Lebedev designer guy, whom you will know.

Robusto

I don't know designers, much less Russian ones.

RegDwigнt

We've talked about this one before is why I'm so confident. I think you may have posted some of his work actually. But no matter.

Artemiy is pronounced "Artemiy", even though Artem is pronounced "Artyom". And since the latter is a very common name, but the former basically completely non-existent, naturally everyone and his dog calls him "Artyomiy" and he makes no secret out of just how infuriating he finds that.

Robusto

Understandable.

RegDwigнt

He made that keyboard with LED displays in every key, I think that's the thing you could have posted. I don't really remember. Or maybe some of his smiley cushions from the MOMA. Wevs.

Now. The thing with Alekhine is, I don't know much about him and haven't read the whole Wiki, but what may very well have happened is that his name actually was Alyokhine originally, but when he moved to France he himself adapted to the French around him.

Like, you wouldn't believe how I've been butchering my own name for the last 25 years just to be polite.

Robusto

20:57

@RegDwigнt I know the feeling. I hate having to spell my name in letter couplets just so people can't fuck up the spelling, which of course they still do, every time.

RegDwigнt

It's the weirdest thing, innit. Everyone agrees it's grossly impolite to get someone else's name wrong, and yet everyone also instinctively feels that it's grossly impolite to bother others with the proper pronunciation of your own name.

Like, look at all the Jewish people in America.

After a couple generations they literally cannot pronounce their own names. Because the ancestors that could were too polite to not adapt to everyone else's mispronunciation.

Robusto

Yeah, I can't pronounce Bernstein Bernsteen.

Kaspar

There is a fruit called mangosteen.

Robusto

BTW, when I was a kid learning Alekhine's Defense everyone pronounced it Aluhkein.

RegDwigнt

Well. The elephant in the room really is Nabokov. Who himself started pronouncing himself with a /-ba-/, even though it's the most clear /-bo-/ in the history of mankind.

Kaspar

21:03

Although I learnt the Sicilian Defence I never learned the Alekhine Defence. But I know Alekhine is a great player.

RegDwigнt

And then just wrote everything in English and refused to translate it into Russian.

What is it about Vladimirs that makes them be so overeager.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Ask Putin.

RegDwigнt

Is who I'm alluding to.

Robusto

Figured.

RegDwigнt

Well, I guess there was that Uljanov guy, too.

But he was a walrus.

Which is different from Kiev Rus.

Robusto

21:05

Chicken Kiev?

RegDwigнt

I don't get that one.

I only know Russ Meyer.

Robusto

Chicken Kiev

Chicken Kiev (Ukrainian: котлета по-київськи, kotleta po-kyivsky, Russian: котлета по-киевски, kotleta po-kiyevski; literally "cutlet Kiev-style") is a dish made of chicken fillet pounded and rolled around cold butter, then coated with eggs and bread crumbs, and either fried or baked. In general, the dish of stuffed chicken breast is also known in Ukrainian, Russian and Polish cuisines as côtelette de volaille (Russian: котлета де-воляй, tr. kotleta de-volyay, Polish: kotlet de volaille; from French "chicken cutlet"). Since fillets are often referred to as suprêmes in professional cookery, the...

RegDwigнt

dafuq is this

I mean, I'm reading dafuq this is, but still

Robusto

It's one way to get melted butter on your shirt, is all.

RegDwigнt

I can list three easier ways without even trying.

No, four.

Kotleta is another funny word. In Russian it's a patty of ground meat. In German, however, that's a steak.

As well as the hairdo everyone sported in the 70s including yourself IIRC.

Sideburns. Right. Forgot the word.

Kaspar

21:11

I cut the sideburns every time I cut my hair.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt You don't mean mullet, do you. Cuz I never had a mullet.

RegDwigнt

No I mean sideburns.

Robusto

Nope. When I had facial hair I went all in.

RegDwigнt

And if you had no sideburns in the 70s you didn't live in the 70s.

Kaspar

@Robusto Chambers Dictionary has a humorous definition for mullet, short in front, long at the back, and ridiculous all around.

RegDwigнt

21:13

@Robusto well technically all in includes all individual parts, so once again I can declare victory and withdraw.

Kaspar

It also has a humorous definition for eclair, long in shape but short in duration.

Robusto

I had hair down to my shoulders from age 17 till about 24, when I decided it was just too much trouble. And I had a beard whenever I got too tired of shaving.

RegDwigнt

Funny. I shave every time I get too tired of a beard. Which is every four days, like.

Robusto

Two sides of the same coin.

Kaspar

For me, a coin has three sides, including the round one.

RegDwigнt

21:15

Unsurprisingly so, seeing how that could be the whole motto of Russia and US.

That reminds me, I need to shave.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt That's two sighs of the same coin.

RegDwigнt

Got a concert tomorrow.

Robusto

You are playing?

RegDwigнt

Also must get the shirt out the laundry.

@Robusto yes two pieces with my violin teacher. It's an annual thingie the music school does.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Break a leg.

I disliked wearing a tux to play. It was so very uncomfortable. Also, it sucked to have to get on the bus or the El looking like that.

Also, since you only have one tux, it's never really clean, now is it?

RegDwigнt

21:19

The funniest thing is, she'll be half an hour late for the concert because right before that she plays with fucking Pinchas Zukerman.

I wish I could make that shit up.

drp-orchester.de/drp/konzerte/saarbruecken/…

Robusto

And you won't be able to go because it's ausverkauft.

RegDwigнt

Yeah somehow I missed this one. I often do go, to that exact hall, to this exact Konzertreihe. But I've not been in the last six months like.

So anyway I guess it's game face for me tomorrow. Or whatever the theatre equivalent of that is.

Robusto

Gay face?

It's funny because so many in theater are gay.

nudge nudge, wink wink

RegDwigнt

It's from online multiplayer. When you're in a tournament joking around right before a match stats and everyone talking about each other about all kinds of shit that has nothing to do with what's happening. Then the caller or clan leader or whoever goes "game face" before the match starts.

Also speaking of theatre, I've no idea what to reply to "break a leg", which is why I haven't done so yet. I know what to say in Russian.

Robusto

What do you say in Russian?

RegDwigнt

21:24

You're literally the first person to say the correct thing and not "good luck".

Robusto

I pride myself on being the first person to say the correct thing most of the time.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto In Russian for "break a leg" they use something from hunting, I believe. You say "[I wish that you bring back] no downs nor feathers". As in, here's hoping you'll fuck up.

To which the reply is "go to hell".

Or more accurately "to devil with that".

Robusto

Hahaha. That's great.

RegDwigнt

— Ни пуха, ни пера! — К черту!

See, that ye in tchort is actually a yo. Every Russian knows that. We don't need no Catherine Deneuve.

Robusto

I guess there must be a secret handshake that goes with that.

Google Translate fell for the trap: Their transliteration is K chertu!

RegDwigнt

21:31

Really?

Robusto

Try it, you'll see.

RegDwigнt

Sometimes it does that for me when I leave the language on auto-select, then it gives the translation only once I click on the language they've auto-determined.

к чёрту

== Russian == === Pronunciation === IPA(key): [ˈk‿t͡ɕɵrtʊ] === Phrase === к чёрту! • (k čórtu!) Used other than with a figurative or idiomatic meaning: see к (k),‎ чёрт (čort). Traditional response to ни пу́ха ни пера́! (ni púxa ni perá!)....

Oh look at them English wiki. Kudos.

Robusto

Interesting.

But ... gotta run. My turn to make dinner, so I have to go shopping.

TTYL.

RegDwigнt

See ya.

ни пуха ни пера

== Russian == === Alternative forms === ни пу́ха! (ni púxa!) === Pronunciation === IPA(key): [nʲɪ‿ˈpuxə nʲɪ‿pʲɪˈra] === Phrase === ни пу́ха ни пера́! • (ni púxa ni perá!) good luck, break a leg ==== Usage notes ==== The traditional response to this is к чёрту! (k čórtu!, “To hell!”). The meaning of the phrase is approximately "(I hope) you will not get a single feather," as would be spoken to a bird hunter, with usage and meaning akin to the English phrase "break a leg."...

And look ma, looks like I was right. Bird hunters it is.

Wouldn't make a whollottasense otherwise really.

RegDwigнt

21:45

Aye, thus he spake truth.

Google screweth up.

But we knew that ever since they posted that Bach doodle.

Bach is twisting and shouting in his grave.

Who takes a melody and then tries to score the bass to go with that?

These people might know all about AI, but about music they do not know the very first thing.

They tackle it like they would tackle every other task. Like they would tackle chess.

When all you have is an AI, every problem looks like a nail.

user5954246

Hello! Welp! I remember there is a word for a person who enjoys only the difficult things. I can't recall it :(

RegDwigнt

Hm.

Good question.

Even OneLook be ever so unhelpful.

I like "snowman". Nothing to say of "imbecile".

They must be using Google's AI.

user5954246

I think that word started with an m. I want to know it so badly :-<

RegDwigнt

We need an AI that would take these suggestions and compile a random selection into a haiku until it runs out of moras.

I'm trying to think of anything with an m but all I keep thinking of is polymath.

Also multi multi multi and then nothing.

user5954246

22:01

lol

RegDwigнt

And now maniac.

I think my brain uses Google's AI.

But not to worry. I can go to bed safe in the knowledge that by the time I wake up someone will have posted the answer.

Question is, can you tho.

user5954246

I tried so hard :'''(

RegDwigнt

These are precisely the kind of things that are designed to rob people of sleep.

Kaspar

@user5954246 Are you thinking of masochist?

user5954246

@Kaspar Hmm, doesn't sound like it. There was an m and an n. It was a beautiful word

But now it doesn't exist :(

Captain Bohemian

22:05

@Kaspar why do you change your name?

Kaspar

@CaptainBohemian Just for fun.

RegDwigнt

It's the first step on his list of 12.

Kaspar

Good luck for the concert @RegDwigнt.

RegDwigнt

Step zero: don't delete your account. Step one: change your name instead.

Captain Bohemian

@Kaspar what? I consider you do that for evading someone.

RegDwigнt

22:06

I believe that if Jasper were doing things for some reason, he would be doing a whole lot less of things.

Kaspar

@CaptainBohemian No, it is just for fun, like I said.

RegDwigнt

Jesus Christ, every time I check MuseScore it transcends to a whole nother dimension still. From all the whole nother dimensions it had transcended prior.

@Robusto.

This... is...

I don't even have a word for "why" anymore.

And it is with this lovely rainbow that I shall leave you alone for the day.

Robusto

23:02

@RegDwigнt lol wut?

Why are all the notes spelled out alphabetically? Does someone imagine this will make the piece easier to play? Also, they seem to be in no particular order, as in not counting up from the root.

The same thing happens when you give a child a loaded gun that happens when you give some people software that enables them to do things their ability has denied them until now.

Mitch

23:24

@user5954246 mnemnomnic

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…