English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

SmokeDetector

07:40

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Vans or cars which sell breakfast, what is this called? by Avneesh Panwar on english.SE

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08:15

0

Q: Word for a small background program launched by a larger main application

In our software project, we are quickly gaining a number of small, external programs which are not part of the main program. Each of them has a specific, but limited functionality. We're having trouble coming up with a descriptive, evocative name for them. What all of these "things" have in comm...

single-word-requests

Matt E. Эллен

09:29

still sleepy

RegDwigнt

09:47

@Cerberus there's a fresh one up on YouTube from like two days ago. Or have you seen that one already.

Summer Notebook: Etude for the Left Hand

►

The complete summer album is coming probably as soon as tomorrow. A bunch of new Mandelstam songs right after that.

Spent the last two weeks recording, and the last three days editing just one video.

Jasper Loy

@RegDwigнt Oh I did not know you have a piano channel!

RegDwigнt

10:20

Well, it's kinda new. Blame @Robusto. He wouldn't listen to a synth-generated recording. Pfft. Some people. So I had to record myself. Little does he realize I'm a synth myself. And I've not even passed the Turing test. Mwuahaha.

Jasper Loy

After I get my 720p camera I will start my singing channel again, lol, which I deleted many times already. But right now I only have a 480p camera.

RegDwigнt

Anyway. Like, share, comment, follow, subscribe, wank off, and plug yourself into the matrix. I'll take over from there. Nothing bad can happen. No, really. I promise.

@JasperLoy I film with a potato. Who cares. I can't play for shit anyway.

Jasper Loy

@RegDwigнt That's something I notice about laptops. The current Macbook (which I don't have) is so expensive and only comes with a 480p camera! That is something Apple overlooked.

RegDwigнt

And yeah you don't need to tell us you've deleted your singing channel. Again. I think everyone in here was kind of suspecting just that.

Jasper Loy

It's been over a week and I still have this ELU account, miracle!

RegDwigнt

10:25

Yes, slacker. You're getting old and lazy. The real Jasper would have deleted this account five times by now.

On the first day alone.

Jasper Loy

But I did something new on SE recently. I joined Interpersonal Skills SE for the first time.

And since one of the answers was a hot network question's answer, I got the mortarboard badge!

RegDwigнt

Many people are on Interpersonal Skills. Not many people on there actually have them.

Especially not those with high rep.

Jasper Loy

Hmm, even though I am strange, I think I do have some IPS, lol.

RegDwigнt

I can sell you some for $3000.

Jasper Loy

Too expensive. I still want to buy that Acer Swift 3 laptop this week.

RegDwigнt

10:29

Acer sounds like something from the 80s. No wonder you only have 480p.

Jasper Loy

I read over 9000 reviews before deciding this is the laptop I would be getting.

@RegDwigнt No, no, this one has 720p. My old laptop has 480p.

RegDwigнt

Oh sorry, in that case it sounds like something from the 90s. My bad.

Jasper Loy

Let me show you this very entertaining ad for the laptop...

RegDwigнt

Last time you showed us some Asian ads, everyone wept for days.

Jasper Loy

I think I only showed Asian songs, not ads. This is the first ad I will be showing.

Acer Education | Unboxing the Swift 3

►

And this guy speaks American, lol.

RegDwigнt

10:32

There were some Malaysian or Philippino ads for a life insurance. Wasn't it you? I thought it was you who posted them. Don't know.

Jasper Loy

If there are ads, it's the youtube ads, not the video itself.

RegDwigнt

@JasperLoy oh I've actually seen that one. And by "seen" I mean "clicked away as soon as I could".

Like WTF 4:35 minutes for an ad? What are these people smoking?

Jasper Loy

@RegDwigнt The ad is sooooo amazing. The best ad I have seen.

RegDwigнt

People refused to watch ads on TV when they were 10 seconds long.

> this video is powered by 9th gen cringe

Jasper Loy

This guy is so entertaining I want to listen to him over and over.

RegDwigнt

10:34

> you overacted, man. that was cheesy

> Jesus christ, the cringe is real

> Is this specifically NOT for people who don't go to school?

> best example of over acting ever. wowo

As Pythagoras famously said, "give me a sec, and I'll quote the entire YouTube at you".

> low quality laptop originated from China

Jasper Loy

The blue shirt he is wearing in that ad is the colour of the laptop I will be getting.

RegDwigнt

Well the blue is very nice I'll give you that.

I am wearing a shirt of a very similar color right now.

Jasper Loy

Well, actually Acer is a Taiwanese brand. But of course according to China, Taiwan is part of China.

RegDwigнt

Well, do they actually manufacture in Taiwan, is the question. Or do they outsource to mainland China. Just like absolutely everyone else in the world.

Jasper Loy

Asus is also Taiwanese, but Lenovo is Chinese, LG is Korean, and Dell and HP are American.

@RegDwigнt Well, the Dell laptop I saw on a website had its charger manufactured in China.

RegDwigнt

10:38

Lenovo is the worst-sounding company name in history. Gives me the fucking shivers every time.

And Dell is not far behind.

I still remember the days when Dell was like one month old and actually very very good.

Just like Firefox.

Jasper Loy

If you look at the specs of the Acer Swift 3, the one with i5, 8gb ram, and 256gb ssd, you will see that it has good specs and also a good price.

Of course, the actual variant sold and price depends on the country you shop in.

RegDwigнt

I'm just not into laptops at all. Never owned one. And now they are just completely obsolete, what with tablets and smartphones.

Buying a laptop now is like buying a Blackberry.

Jasper Loy

And I checked that its camera is indeed 720p and not 480p, lol.

I have never used the internet on my smartphone, and never will.

RegDwigнt

Anyway, I'm afraid I must go look up "work" in a dictionary. That's something expected of me and I've no idea what it even means.

Jasper Loy

The only reason I got a smartphone and not a stupidphone is because the latter no longer works here. Can't receive the telephone signals.

I am going to eat dinner, bye bye. Bon appetit.

Mitch

12:06

@RegDwigнt True story: Last night I had a dream (I realize that should be interesting enough, but let me continue) where I was solving a megaminx using your suggestion. I was on the last face and just did the mini edge-placement sequence. And it got to where the last face was entirely done except for a single pair. The whole thing but for one pair. You now how dreams are, that was as far as it went...

...but a little after I woke up, I went over to finish the megaminx I have, whose only remaining part to solve was one last face. And so I do some of those moves and it gets to where there is one pair not completed. I do a sequence to swap that pair and...

God damn you. Of course it doesn't work. That's crazy.

RegDwigнt

Very interesting. Last night I had a dream in which I went to the ELU chat and typed "haha, sucks to be you".

Weird, huh.

Actually it's a lie. But here's a true thing that I actually dreamt last night. I was hosting the German version of Letterman, except I wasn't hosting it myself but let some guy from the audience host it. While I watched him from an aisle. And while I watch him from the aisle, I look up and right above the audience there's an Ab major chord floating in the air.

Like, not the sound, the actual printed notes.

And interestingly enough, there's no staff and no key signature. Just three full notes, stacked in the air. But I know for a fact it's Ab major.

And the best part is, I know exactly what each part of that dream means. And not in the Freudian-bollocks "you really want to fuck a catfish" way, but the genuine accurate factual meaning of every bit.

Mitch

12:37

What I got out of that is something about a catfish and your mom.

Jasper Loy

A catfish is neither a fish that eats cats nor a cat that eats fish.

A houseboat is different from a boathouse.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt That's right, blame the victim.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto it is the way of the synth.

Robusto

That's, like, so synthetic, man.

RegDwigнt

It's my synthetic opinion.

Robusto

12:48

I call it synthesthesia ... the feeling you have when you're hearing a synth and trying to imagine a real instrument.

RegDwigнt

Is it just fonts on Linux terribly broken, or has someone sneakily renamed the room.

Don't let tchrist see this, he'll shoot himself dead.

user1732

looks fine to me

RegDwigнt

Instant disqualification.

Robusto

That's Chrome on a PC.

RegDwigнt

So the answer is yes, it's 2018 and Linux still can't do shit.

Robusto

12:51

Well, FWIW, the kerning on the version I posted likely wouldn't pass the @tchrist sniff test.

RegDwigнt

@user1732 look at the "u". Now look at all the other letters. Now look at the "u". Now scream in disgust and pain.

user1732

AAaaaaaah

RegDwigнt

And it's not like "u" is a rare letter. You'd think Torvalds would have figured it out by now.

They have u in Finnish.

Robusto

Linux was never meant to be appealing to the eye. In fact, Linux aficionados specifically disdain such frou-frou.

RegDwigнt

Linux aficionados specifically disdain everything. Including Linux. But even more than Linux they disdain themselves.

Robusto

12:53

Frou Frou - Let Go

►

RegDwigнt

This analysis has been brought to you by a catfish. And also @Mitch's mom.

Robusto

Perhaps a Frou Frou song would be apt at this point.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto "Let go" is so 2000. Also, so by Avril Lavigne.

Robusto

Did you think we don't know what frou-frou means?

RegDwigнt

Also why text say let go and pic say jump in.

Cognitive dissonance.

Speak of synthesthesia.

Robusto

12:54

You're cognitive dissonance.

RegDwigнt

That is correct.

Which is the best kind of correct.

Teh music is kewl tho.

Tho dem girl dem her voice is like so 2000s.

Robusto

It's a Heap of Imogen right there.

user1732

@Robusto i didn't

Robusto

@user1732 Did you get a visit from Secret Agent Man?

RegDwigнt

@Robusto frou-frou is Swedish for "woman-woman". Or possibly Silesian.

user1732

12:57

no, why?

Robusto

Johnny Rivers - Secret Agent Man + Lyrics

►

Listen carefully to the chorus.

RegDwigнt

That's the only listen I know.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt What did you say? I wasn't listening.

RegDwigнt

> “To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears also.”

user1732

they sing too fast

RegDwigнt

12:58

You listen too slow.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt If a duck falls in the forest, does it quack like a duck?

RegDwigнt

@Robusto it sacrifies the spring.

Or is it sacrifices?

Russian is sooo hard, like.

Robusto

@user1732 Secret Agent Man, Secret Agent Man, he's givin' you a number and takin' away your name.

user1732

ok

Robusto

Meaning any name with user+number is not useful for chat. We don't parse numbers real well around these parts.

user1732

13:00

i'm protesting

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Yeah, well, why did you let yourself be born into a language system like that? A rookie move, if you ask me.

RegDwigнt

I was born to be wild.

Like a steppes wolf.

And they don't have steppes in Germany.

user1732

cool tune

Robusto

@RegDwigнt So you're a Hesse-ian, yeah?

RegDwigнt

Well, England tried to do something about that, but they ran out of incindeary bombs. Slackers.

Matt E. Эллен

13:02

That's Ubuntu/Firefox

doesn't look so bad

RegDwigнt

Well la-dee-da.

Matt E. Эллен

you're ah-welcome

Robusto

Oh, ferchrissakes.

RegDwigнt

"Ubuntu/Firefox" is already two retarded words in one sentence. And you haven't even formed a sentence yet.

user1732

how does a word become retarded?

Robusto

13:06

@RegDwigнt Stop using "Well" at the beginning of a sentence. That's my speech pattern, not yours. If you have to use a sentence adverb, try na ja ...

@user1732 Easy, just spray flame retardant on it.

user1732

inflammable?

thnx pal

RegDwigнt

@Robusto well well well. I'll use "well well well", then.

Or maybe "horrible horrible horrible". Yeah that's more like it.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt When I say well I'm invariably referring to the hole in the ground from which one draws water. That's why I get so bent out of shape. I'm protecting my water supply, is all.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto Fun fact: in this local Saarland dialect here they have a special word for "well". Not all German dialects do. Not all languages do. But here there is one. "Ey", pronounced /aj/.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt I think they're just being Saarcastic.

RegDwigнt

13:11

So as a matter of fact my prefixing every single utterance with a well is very much my speech pattern, acquired in Germany.

@Robusto now, ending sentences in "is all", now that is my speech pattern. I am siouxing you as we speak.

Robusto

I will countersioux.

RegDwigнt

Payez les damages first.

Then you won't be able to sioux back.

The best of two worlds.

Robusto

Demi-panglossian.

RegDwigнt

No idea what Bruce Willis's ex-wife has to do with it but yeah it's her pangloss not his.

tchrist

14:57

I wonder what that ligature is for.

@Cerberus Any idea? It’s next to the old-style ones ﬆ and such on the font I’m looking at.

Cerberus

@tchrist Normalle, que.

No, wait.

Let me think.

Normally, the second part is -et or -ed.

But quet and qued aren't exactly common syllables, at least not in languages I know.

tchrist

Okay thanks. This is from the free EB Garamond font from Google that I pasted a link to yesterdaylishly.

15 hours ago, by tchrist

https://github.com/georgd/EB-Garamond/blob/master/specimen/Specimen.pdf?raw=true

Cerberus

@tchrist It's definitely que, I've looked it up.

tchrist

Ahah! Thanks, I knew you'd have seen it.

Cerberus

And it is unlikely to be the relative pronoun qu(a)e in Latin, because that normally has a different abbreviation.

tchrist

15:07

Right, is it a shorthand for the clitic then?

Cerberus

Yes.

tchrist

That makes sense.

Cerberus

But such abbreviations are normally international and interlingual.

So I would expect it to be also used for the relative pronoun in French.

tchrist

hm

Cerberus

@tchrist Looks nice.

tchrist

15:08

So uirũ(glyph) then?

Cerberus

I'm not sure what you mean, but uirũ would likely be Latin virum.

tchrist

(arma virumque ...)

Cerberus

Ah, ok. Yes.

@tchrist I didn't see the ligature in the document?

@RegDwigнt Cool!

I like it. Nice and mellow like a brook.

I don't normally see anything on Youtube unless I click a link thereto.

(I really wonder why informal English dropped all the old Germanic there- compounds. They are in like every Dutch and German sentence, they're incredibly efficient.)

@JasperLoy So what makes this Acer the best?

tchrist

16:28

@Cerberus I downloaded the full typeface family, and it's in there when I was inspecting all the glyphs.

Cerberus

@tchrist Ah, OK.

It would be nice to see how many other fonts have that glyph.

tchrist

@Cerberus I don't know any way to figure that out computationally.

Only through visual inspection.

Cerberus

@tchrist You can't copy-paste the glyph into some other programme?

tchrist

@Cerberus Virtually all programs specify only code points. The font's job is to map those numbers to specific glyphs.

Cerberus

@tchrist But you will presumably copy those code points when you copy the symbol from a programme that displays it, won't you?

tchrist

16:41

Er, no.

Cerberus

If it allows you to copy it.

tchrist

This doesn't have a Unicode code point. That's the point/issue.

Cerberus

Ah, OK.

tchrist

You access a font's specific glyphs in a different way.

Feeds

0

Q: Single word for "go in vain"

Consider this example sentence: His efforts will go in vain. I want to make this sentence precis while adding a single verb, such as: His efforts have been ______ . Can I include the verb waste or spoil in place of go in vain? like this: His efforts have been wasted/spoiled.

single-word-requests

Cerberus

16:42

It is something that the font generates based on certain code points it sees.

tchrist

Any sort of mousey thing is only about code points.

Cerberus

The question is, when will it generate the glyph? Under which conditions?

tchrist

There are various kinds of glyph alternates you can specify with certainly properties, like swash italics.

It will generate that glyph when you encode the thing that says 1. that font family 2. the specific glyph number irrespective of code point.

Or you can sometimes get at it through better-defined alternates.

It may simply be a ligature.

So an historical ligature for the "que" combo.

That happens automatically if you've asked for historical ligatures (hlig).

I haven't looked at the font more deeply; it would tell me that. I was only looking at the glyph shapes, not the rules for generating them.

Cerberus

I see.

Færd

mobile.twitter.com/KavehMadani/status/1036771404832628736/video/…

Expressive visualization

Cerberus

16:59

I'm not entirely sure what I see.

I see a tiny, non-moving picture saying 1880.

Færd

Really? I checked it; it's a link to a 39-second clip.

Here's the whole tweet:

Horrifying #GlobalWarming visualization See #temperature anomalies by country from 1880 to 2017 based on @NASA GISTEMP data. #ClimateChange https://t.co/M3Vpu1cqZ5

Tweeted by KavehMadani on September 4, 2018 at 12:22 AM

Jasper Loy

@Cerberus The combination of its specifications, price, and looks, in short.

@RegDwigнt Chinese is hard, but I think Japanese is hardest for the English speaker.

Cerberus

@Færd It wouldn't play on my computer.

Perhaps because I've blocked ads.

I don't use Twitter.

But I've found the video on Youtube.

It's a nice visualisation, but a graph is more efficient.

And I believe scientists don't make any claims yet over short-term climate changes and what caused them.

Their concern is more to do with changes between now and 2100.

Robusto

17:15

@Cerberus I deal with that issue all the time, but I figure the one or two valuable things I miss per day are more than balanced by the thousands of inane advertisements I avoid.

Cerberus

@Robusto Absolutely.

I hate Twitter anyway.

Robusto

I was on it briefly, but found it had nothing of value for me.

Cerberus

I also use Umatrix, which is more of a hassle.

It lets you block stuff in a very fine-grained manner.

Incidentally, do you say INdicative, or inDIcative?

Robusto

@Cerberus I'm a little more sanguine than that.

Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.

@Cerberus Accent on the second syllable.

Cerberus

Oh, dear, is that Christian?

Robusto

17:20

Note that you have dD in the second word.

Cerberus

@Robusto In what way?

Feeds

0

Q: Further to refer to time

May I use further to refer to time? For instance: I'll do it further Thank you

single-word-requests word-usage grammaticality american-english time

Cerberus

No patience?

Robusto

@Cerberus I want patience, but I want it now.

Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.

"Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius." was allegedly spoken by Papal legate and Cistercian abbot Arnaud Amalric prior to the massacre at Béziers, the first major military action of the Albigensian Crusade. A direct translation of the Latin phrase would be "Kill them. For the Lord knows those that are His own." Less formal English translations have given rise to variants such as "Kill them all; let God sort them out." Other sources give the quotation as "Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet." == Background == Amalric's own version of the siege, described in his letter to Pope Innocent III...

Cerberus

@Robusto That's also how I would pronounce it. But I just heard someone say it the other way.

@Robusto Noted.

Most sites work fine if you auto-allow all css and images from third parties.

Robusto

17:21

@Cerberus Whom did you hear speak such an abomination?

Cerberus

And you only need to configure a site you've never been on once, in case it doesn't work properly.

Intel Optane 900P SSD detailed Tekspek - Benchmarks vs Samsung 960 Pro which is best?

►

With correct time frame.

Robusto

@Cerberus What do you expect from an Aussie?

Cerberus

I did not expect this to be a regional difference.

Robusto

Australia is hardly a region. More like a whole country.

Also note that she stresses both of the first two syllables.

Cerberus

The world has regions, too.

One of which could be Oceania.

Robusto

17:24

Pfft. It also has religions.

Cerberus

In which case it is normally called a region.

When a language is split up into regions.

Robusto

@Cerberus Oceania would include Malaysa, Indonesia, etc., no?

Cerberus

@Robusto But they will die out eventually, unlike language.

@Robusto Depends on your definition?

Robusto

@Cerberus You'd better hope to God that religion dies out.

Cerberus

We do.

But you could also group Australia and NZ as separate regions.

Depending on context.

Robusto

17:26

@Cerberus OK, let me be simpler. The woman sounds Australian to me, so variant pronunciations are to be expected.

Cerberus

Sure.

Robusto

3 mins ago, by Robusto

Also note that she stresses both of the first two syllables.

Cerberus

But I was wondering whether this was something that really depended on region.

howjsay.com/searchResult?word=indicative

Howjsay has the proper pronunciation.

forvo.com/word/indicative/#en

Robusto

The in- there is what I would term a "lazy" stress, one that mostly sets up the stronger, whole-word-supporting stress of the second syllable.

Cerberus

As does Forvo.

I just hear main stress on in-.

Perhaps she just doesn't know the word very well and pronounces it like the verb.

Robusto

17:31

@Cerberus Well, if I heard an American or British speaker giving that pronunciation, I'd suspect that they misread the word initially as employing the negative function of in- at the beginning of the word, and realized their mistake too late to avoid the initial-syllable stress. But compensating enough to at least stress the second syllable.

The negative function meaning its use in words like intolerable.

Cerberus

But...

Robusto

Well, now I'm not so sure. The in- isn't stressed in that word, though it is in some others.

It's stressed at least secondarily if the first syllable of the positive form is not stressed: incompatible.

Ineluctable.

But how about inconsequential? There the -con- is stressed as well, resulting in a double stress.

This gets messier than I expected.

Cerberus

I don't think I would call -con- stressed, though stress is admittedly on a scale.

In- has secondary stress, -quen- primary.

Robusto

@Cerberus Two secondary stresses in a row. I doubt you could even pronounce it with an unstressed con.

For one thing, it would have to render the /o/ as a schwa. Which it clearly does not.

BTW, Southerners in America are apt to pronounce words like insurance with a strong initial stress.

Cerberus

@Robusto I really wouldn't call it that.

@Robusto Funny. I suppose more variation exists with more abstract and longer words.

Robusto

17:42

@Cerberus What else would you call it?

Cerberus

Either unstressed or some more subtle distinction.

Robusto

It is absolutely not unstressed.

It has the same stress pattern as unsatisfactory.

Or extemporaneous.

Cerberus

Yes.

Robusto

Inconsequential: _ _ ^_^

Unsatisfactory: _ _ ^ _ ^^

Cerberus

I would definitely not group the second syllables thus.

Robusto

17:46

Extemporaneous: _ _ ^ _^^.

Where _ is a stress and ^ is unstressed.

@Cerberus If you don't you'll sound like a foreigner.

Cerberus

This is about linguistically analysing sound produced by others.

Jasper Loy

I find the word explanatory hard to pronounce properly.

Cerberus

Are you sure you use the same definitions with regard to syllable stress as linguists do?

Normally, only primary and secondary stress are marked.

Maybe more with very long words.

> toxicology

I think this one is more complex.

Argh, typos.

Co has primary stress.

To secondary.

But how about gy?

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…