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00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 23:00

19:04
@tchrist How different are the Spanish varieties? Yes, I've asked this before but I'm asking again. And not about vocab or thetheo but about how they sound. Does puertoriquenian sound obviously Puerto Rican (to someone from Mexico? to someone from Venezuela? Argentina? Spain?)
It's about how they sound, not the exact mechanics of the palatal vs alveolar glide/affricate
Anonymous
@Mitch You mean it's about auditory phonetics and not articulatory phonetics?
@Mitch If we can't talk about phonetics, then there are issues of lexis and intonation and such.
Caribbean Spanish has distinctive intonation patterns. The phonology is also reasonably distinctive. These are derive from Southern and Insular Spanish, though, which can also have these characteristics.
@snailboat What I'm asking about is much vaguer and informal than that. You're on a bus (everyone spanish speaking), and you over hear someone speaking. and they use 'cojones' for 'you mother-in-law' and everybody giggles. If it were not for one single vocab item, would they sound different (Oh they're obviously from X' vs 'They sound slightly different but I couldn't place them' vs 'That was weird, they totally sounded normal except for that one word')
Of course one can analyze all these little differences. I'm asking for the impression. from slightly off to mutually unitelligible.
No, there's nothing mutually unintelligible at all.
@tchrist That is analytically and is important for saying why. But I'm actually asking about the feeling.
19:14
Ask Manilow.
@tchrist SO even a castilian lisper is well-understood by a ... tries to think of something as distant as possible ... a Tierra del Fuegan?
@tchrist It's more than that
@Mitch Nobody without a speech impediment lisps.
That's just shorthand for the articulatory difference
It's offensive.
what's an easy alternative?
19:17
Northern Spanish. Standard Spanish. People who are neither seseo speakers nor ceceo speakers. Speakers who distinguish ese from theta.
Sometimes Brazilians have a little trouble understanding speakers from Portugal. I know of no corresponding situation with Spanish.
Watch that.
That's lexis.
And of course you can hear the difference in the accents.
They've even subtitled it for you.
@tchrist Spanish Spanish? Iberian Spanish? Imperial Spanish?
All of those are wrong.
What do the colonies say about it? do they say standard Spanish or do they use the derogatory term?
Here's a better example of a Cuban speaker:
And here is a better example of a Madrileñan speaker:
Listen to a bit of each of them actually speaking.
That's a much better demo of the intonation differences. The first video had the cubano speaking too carefully. :)
19:27
@MattE.Эллен haha. yeah, probably. But was that linked in to the deleted question so that the OP doesn't go away because people were mean to her?
@Mitch There are a hundred different accents in Spain if there's one.
@tchrist I guess I'm getting at the analogy with English, and expecting more since they've had colonies much longer.
@MattE.Эллен I will comment that link over at writers then.
@Mitch There are more American Spanish accents than American English accents, and more diverse lexis.
@tchrist ie If I hear an australian I understand everything they say (forgetting weird vocab), but they sound weird.
19:30
@Mitch Of course.
It's no different in Spanish.
and like most Americans, if I hear someone scottish speak, If they're speaking normally (not slowly) I can get half after a minute, most after two minutes.
@Mitch Yes, but now they're two minutes ahead of your understanding.
In France they subtitle films from Québec.
@tchrist American English is not what I would compare with. it is well known to be comparatively homogeneous (wrt Englishes in GB)
@Mitch maybe I misunderstood the question, but it seemed like she was asking when t's ok to use neologism, which is just a matter of opinion
@tchrist haha in Quebec they don't speak write
@MattE.Эллен That's one way to interpret the idea, but the other way is when is a neologism a word. Which the dup (and you) answers.
19:34
Using neologisms is only okay in globmdanging situations. All other situations are right out.
right out where?
How do I use new words?
@MattE.Эллен to the flong of the rifshon.
@tchrist correctly.
That is also how you use all other words.
@RegDwigнt Even when I gibber, but don't tell hoi polloi.
@tchrist Lol "biomedical" that's a funny word you made up.
19:37
@RegDwigнt You'd be amazed what gender-reassignment surgery can do these days.
Yes, first comes the buyer's medical, then the buyer's remorse.
Anonymous
@Mitch There's a continuum between Broad Scots and Scottish Standard English. When I talk to people in Scotland, which I do on pretty much a daily basis, I can usually understand everything they say just fine, but that's because they're staying toward the Standard English end of the spectrum. I don't speak Scots at all.
But it is usually too late.
@snailboat I talk to a Scot and a Geordie regularly. I never had any problems understanding either. Then there was that one guy from the south whom I couldn't understand at all. Couldn't even place his accent. I told him that he was incomprehensible, he told me to fucking learn English. I told him to fucking learn English right back.
19:42
@snailboat Sure. What I'm asking is if Spanish has a similar situation or more. Scots is very different but as an outlier it is an outlier (which is to say it is the only outlier I can think of, unless one counts Ozark ne-toothed mountain man).
I don't know that I've ever been snowed by a speaker from the south.
Well, of England.
Of America, yes, actually.
Are there Spanish varieties like Scots? That few understand outside of those who hear it everyday?
That's the thing. You'd think North was hard to understand, but no, that guy was from some London suburbs or something, I'm sure.
@Mitch Basque. :)
Anonymous
In his Dictionary of Linguistics and Phonetics, David Crystal defines accent as "The cumulative auditory effect of those features of pronun-ciation which identify where a person is from, regionally or socially."
Anonymous
19:43
Humans are actually really good at understanding different accents, but there's a period of adjustment. When you first hear an unfamiliar accent, it can be difficult, but the next day it should be a lot easier, and after a week it should be no problem at all. But when it comes to dialects ("A regionally or socially distinctive variety of language, identified by a particular set of words and grammatical structures.") or entirely different languages like Scots, that's another story.
OK, I never really liked PHP but now I'm ready to lead it down a dark alley and kick its mf brains out.
@tchrist Basque is a variety of Spanish? Have you told that to Basque?
@Robusto "The accidental language"
@tchrist It should have an accident.
19:44
I'd rather learn Albanian than PHP.
Anonymous
The biggest difference between accents is usually in the vowels, and our brains have a way of adapting to those differences relatively quickly. The consonants can be a bit trickier to adapt to, but the differences there usually aren't as big.
@Robusto it had many. Can't you see.
The goddamn time() function just suddenly started outputting ... nothing.
Anonymous
Differences in intonation are, unfortunately, still understudied and poorly described at this point.
I mean, a function that behaves that way ought to be required to explain itself.
19:45
@Robusto apocalypse started
So ... no time left, right?
We're all screwed
@snailboat Unless they swap between syllable timing and stress timing.
there's a start epoch and an end one
@Robusto I am sure if you reorder its arguments it will do just that. It will even tell you where the cheese shop is. In Russian.
19:46
@RegDwigнt Of all the natural languages, I guess it makes sense that Russian would be the one with a cheese shop in it.
Why would you learn PHP anyway. You're not a millennial, last I checked.
@Robusto Run, do not walk, away.
@Robusto careful, if you drop the 13th argument, it's all vodka all the way. All the time, if you will.
@RegDwigнt I am responsible for my bike club's website, which was written originally in PHP.
Then rewrite it in Suaheli. Easier that way.
19:48
If I had any energy or ambition I'd rewrite the whole thing in Python or something that makes sense. Now I'm just patching and hoping not to be bothered. A vain outlook, I realize, but still ...
Anonymous
@tchrist That's actually a really good point. The (subjective, not actual) isochrony of Indian English makes things a bit difficult for me as an American English speaker.
ASP.NET.
Turbo Pascal 5.5.
@RegDwigнt No.
@RegDwigнt No.
Then stick to your PHP lol.
I'm retired. I'm not even supposed to be stressing over code.
19:49
@snailboat I was thinking of that. That's also what confuses Brazilians about speakers from Portugal.
@Robusto hire someone. For a pizza. That's how the entire "language" was invented in the first place.
You think it's fine to violate the sanctity of pizza by exposing it to PHP?
Well, not real pizza. American pizza.
I bet you could find a few dozen people in India to do it for a pizza.
Anyway, it's not that I don't know PHP, it's that knowing it is of absolutely no help in coding PHP.
19:51
It's of no help in anything else, either.
@RegDwigнt Hey, I've had German pizza. Not something I'd care to repeat.
@Robusto :)
@Robusto With sweetcorn, no less.
That's not a pizza, that's a wurst. And you should have known better because it had "wurst" in its fucking name.
I lost serious weight in Germany because I could never find food I liked. In France, I gained.
19:53
There's like a couple good deep-frozen pizzas in Germany. And I mean two. In all of Germany. But freshly prepared, you go Italian.
In France, I couldn't find food I didn't like.
South germany has nice food from what I have seen
Have not had a bad steak there
I don't really care for steak.
@Robusto funny, that. Last time I was in France I weighed 50 kilos less.
19:54
small restaurants that did not look like much but nice quality food
@RegDwigнt You were, what, eight years old then?
not much data though
In France they only fed me frog legs and tiny escargots. It took me more energy to pool those things out of their shells than I got out of it. Fuck France.
@RegDwigнt "Pool"? Perhaps you mean pull?
Of course if you just go for the French breakfast, that's 4000 calories right there, but it also costs you 50 Euros. So fuck that as well.
19:56
In France, every dish comes with a free stick of butter included. In Germany, with pigflesh.
@Robusto I am transcribing the German puhlen because I can't be bothered to look shit up.
@tchrist The rule, I believe, is one stick of butter per croissant or brioche.
There is no such thing as a free stick of butter.
Least of all in France.
In Germany the vegetarian dishes just chop the meat up into smaller pieces.
You cross the border, you immediately pay 3 times as much for the groceries. And, like, they are proud of it. They think food must be expensive, that's how you show that you appreciate it.
19:58
I did eat a lot of butterkeks in Germany, though. Those cookies.
I did once eat at a rather high-class vegetarian restaurant in Munchkin. Can't remember its name. I think "Prince" was part of it.
@tchrist The worst
@Mitch Did you nod out for a couple hundred lines?
Leo.org has zero suggestions for either puhlen or herauspuhlen. WTF, leo.org.
@Robusto Restaurant food isn't that great. Grocery store food is the best
19:59
@Mitch And sign's.
@Robusto So to speak. but i was being earnest and didn't even consider the wurst joke.
@tchrist that's Russia. In Germany, there are no vegetarians left anyway, everyone's went vegan, and then fruitarian.
@RegDwigнt I use dict.leo for all my non-German nuances of word translation needs. It is the bestest at all languages.
@RegDwigнt Try ziehen perhaps?
20:01
@Robusto nur echt mit 52 Zähnen.
@Robusto that's not the same word at all.
@Robusto What, like a door?
I know how to translate "pull" into German and then back into English. That's not what I'm trying to do. Like, at all.
@RegDwigнt The point is, the English word you need to wind up at is pull.
Is what I just said yes.
I am not going for pull.
@RegDwigнt Now you're just being stubborn.
20:02
That's not what you do to the escargots.
You do not pull. You wiggle around trying to get them loose. That's what puhlen means.
Maybe it's not what you do. How are you going to throw them in the trash if you can't pull them out of their shells?
You can also puhlen in der Nase.
In English, that's picking your nose for some reason.
Again not the same thing.
The very sound of the word makes me think there must be a cognate in English. Which is why I just had a guess at it in the first place.
But apparently the Normans have beaten it all out of you.
OK, I bow to your potentially superior knowledge of what the fuck you're talking about.
@RegDwigнt Normen.
@tchrist Les Normen, s'il vous plaît.
20:05
5 hours ago, by tchrist
> Se aulcun damné ou fuytif s'enfuyt a l'eglise, ou en cymitiere ou en lieu sainct, ou il se aert [saisir] a une croix qui soit fichée en terre, la justice laye le doit laisser en paix, par le privilege de l'eglise, si qu'elle ne mette la main a luy. Mais la justice doibt mettre gardes qu'il ne s'enfuye d'illec.
Bad spellers, every one of them.
Les Nordhommes?
Les vaches qui rient.
Vachement bien.
Your Spanish is improving.
See, there is a cow level in French.
20:08
When I was a kid there was an old story going around about some French monarch visiting Russia in the 18th century or something, and the Russians addressed her in the most polite way possible in Russian, and she fainted, because that word in French meant "cow".
za vasha zdarovye?
Poor little cabbage.
@Robusto yes, Ваше Высочество = Your Majesty.
Cow Majesty.
@KitZ.Fox I was here but then I went for lunch
@RegDwigнt Hahaha
20:10
@Robusto btw it's "vashe" in that case. "Vasha" is feminine singular nominative. You're looking for neuter singular accusative.
Well, I say that you are.
@RegDwigнt Prolly pronounced the same in any case, for an American.
Oh yeah.
I've been meaning to make a video on "Russian pronunciation in 1 minute" some time.
The 1 minute really is all you need.
Stressed vowel = same as written. One position before stressed syllable = /o/ becomes /a/, /e/ becomes /i/. All other vowels in all other positions are schwa.
And I'm not even joking, like.
Ugh. That's Sue Perkins.
Well, yes. She's ok.
20:13
Dunno. What is the opposite of she grew on me?
She shrunk on me.
She wore on you.
I'm weary alright.
Fuck this heat wave. All the time you're tired and sleepy because it's so fucking hot, but you can only sleep for like 15 minutes before waking up because it's so fucking hot.
Is your AC broken?
What's an AC?
Sue did rather well on that one.
20:15
Nobody has AC in Europe.
That is not a thing that exists in proper countries.
But Paul Merton is funnier.
Except the Ritz.
Just like credit cards.
Okay okay I'll go watch that boy named Sue.
sigh
Fuck me, it's 28:38!
Sevilla gets to 45C. Trust me, you can find equipos de aire acondicionado there.
20:17
They say "welcome to just a minute", and the clock says "28:38". Wake up sheeple.
Even the five minutes of hate were actual 5 minutes.
It's 4am there?
Or is 28 hundred hours some funky Russian time?
It's always way too late in Sueperkinsland.
Hm. Why are they reading off a teleprompter.
They don't on other panel shows.
What is this nonsense.
@tchrist there's ACs on buses and metro trains in Rome, too. And they actually work.
Reading off a teleprompter, really? The MC?
@RegDwigнt Deo gratias.
In Germany, it's traditionally 20 degrees hotter inside all buses and trains than it is outside. Unless it's winter, in which case it's traditionally 20 degrees colder inside.
And that's 20 Celcius. Not Fahrenheit.
Your degrees would be less unpleasant if they were Germanized.
20:21
I don't know that the world is in any need of getting Germanized again.
@RegDwigнt Does Drumpf count?
Sorry Tom, I could take the Perkins but I can't take the reading off the prepared script.
There's no script. She's improvising.
That's what the game is.
I do not believe she is.
She behaves very unnaturally.
You haven't watched many of these. :)
20:23
I went to see a jazz performance in Paris one summer partly because the lobby was air-conditioned. The lobby was air-conditioned. But the theater was not. And everybody was smoking.
@tchrist I have watched none. But I've seen her on QI and everything. Many times. I know what she looks and sounds like when she's off the cuff.
You try to speak extemporaneously for a whole minute on something on a moment's notice without hesitating or repeating. It's harder than you might think.
Yeah there's a few shows with similar concepts on British TV.
Have I got News for You or something.
No, that's not the one. What's the name.
That one's actually funny. Occasionally.
Not the Lying one.
Hosted by Dara O'Briain.
20:25
Mock the Week.
@tchrist No Sue Perkins never was on Would I Lie To You.
@tchrist yes thank you.
You know the weirdest thing? I can't possibly tell you the name of any American comedy shows.
Then there's also that other one where you have to argue a point, and someone from the enemy team has to argue against it. Again improvised.
@tchrist they are all named after the buffoons who host them. Conan schmonan.
Well, modulo Colbert's Late Show and John Oliver.
And Oliver's English.
The only one that wasn't died when Jon Stewart left.
20:28
@RegDwigнt Trevor Noah has been getting better but he's a long way off from Stewart.
Colbert is so offensively unfunny I despair. I'd rather watch Conan. And I'd rather not watch Conan.
Oh, this is great. The PHP time() function now outputs 1533155130, which is "Sun Jan 18 1970 10:52:35 GMT-0700 (Mountain Standard Time)" ... fuck PHP. Seriously.
Maybe there's something messed up on the server.
@RegDwigнt That's what Arizona is on, now and ever.
20:29
@tchrist Also Nuevo Mexico.
@Robusto I find that unlikely.
@tchrist Oh, I didn't notice the "standard" ...
I mean, I didn't suspect a machine wouldn't know we were on DST.
Fuck time, seriously.
zones
@tchrist He's just a different personality. More earnest
@tchrist sitcoms or in the QI direction?
@tchrist The whole Trump debacle? I blame Jon Stewart for leaving the Daily Show. He let us down.
20:34
There's 'Whose Line is it Anyway?'
@Mitch Ugh.
@Robusto It's an example
You don't have to like it
I don't.
I'm trying to think of non-sitcoms but also not comedy-news
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive body detected: Word for speaking without concern for word meaning ✏️ by Plown Over on english.SE
20:37
game shows? usually earnest. with some scripted jokes. or incidental banter
jeopardy is groan city all the time
@Mitch Alex Trebek is the worst joke-maker ever, and poorer still at repartee.
He has the manner of a clueless teacher befuddled by junior high students.
@Robusto He makes my soul die. Every time.
Some people throw their shoes at the screen when a politician says something crazy.
I throw scrabble tiles whenever Trebek tries to make a pun.
@Robusto He's literally an old man. Figuratively.
"Hi contestant 2, it says here in my notes that you have so many cats that you have to step outside to change your mind. HA HA HA HA HA AHH'
20:54
0
Q: Seeking a word or term for someone that is sadistically pedantic or law-enforcing

Chris It’s a term I heard many years ago but it somehow slipped my mind. It’s either a word (possibly a compound word) or maybe two-word term for ruthlessly following the rules with sinister, sadistic or nefarious intent. Please note that it is NOT Draconianism.

21:45
@Mitch I don't have a problem with undeleting it at ELU provided that it's deleted at Writers.
21:59
@MetaEd Though it felt wrong the things happened, it's following expectations. Anyway, as @MattE.Эллен pointed out, on ELU it's a duplicate, and so I answered, at length, on the dupe. Any undeletion/deletion would be up to the OP.
-1
Q: I have hard time understanding this paragraph

Yongseok Chang "Additionally, recent evidence shows that risk factors for diabetes and cardiovascular disease are no greater in non-obese adults who had been obese children than they are in individuals who have never been obese, but are clearly lower than those in people who became obese as adults or who were o...

I am actually with the OP on this one.
Clearly what the evidence shows is that you must ignore childhood because it doesn't matter. And focus on adults instead because that's where the risks are.
@Robusto you had me at "Alex Trebek is the worst".
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