English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

00:23

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's nice.

What would you be interested in?

And when are you travelling?

And do you mind tourist traps if they're good, like the Van Gogh-museum?

Large parts of the inner city are chock full of tourists, especially in summer.

The Rijksmuseum is the best art museum.

The Stedelijk Museum is for modern art.

The local branch of the Russian Hermitage also has nice old art exhibitions usually, as does the Nieuwe Kerk.

A boat tour along the canals is a tourist trap but nice.

If you want to annoy the locals, rent bikes to get around and block the bicycle lanes by going very slowly and paying no attention to traffic.

The same applies to walking around the city.

Have a picnic in one of the parks. The near end of the Vondelpark will be very crowded, though.

If you want to learn something about local history, visit the Amsterdam-museum and/or the Royal Palace.

Don't go anywhere near Leidseplein: it and the streets around it are horrible tourist traps with nothing of interest.

The same applies to the streets around the central station, Damrak, and Rembrandtplein, although the last is a fairly nice place to walk around and maybe have drinks at the cosy Schiller café (the Schiller restaurant somewhat less so).

I would not visit the red light district, especially not in the evening or weekends.

You can't even walk there in an acceptable manner to admire the ladies of pleasure because of the throngs of British and other tourists.

The "technical" museum Nemo is nice for children.

Cinema Tuschinsky looks nice.

Beware of pickpockets.

Taxis are among the world's most expensive, usually more expensive even than in London or Zürich.

The new underground that was opened a week ago is fast and nice.

What else?

The book market at the Spui is nice, various old prints and photos. I think it's only on Saturdays?

The Oudemanhuispoort has a nice courtyard and book stalls.

@tchrist I'm afraid I didn't even know that word!

Perhaps to rhyme with paradigm?

@tchrist Generally, an inbreuk.

In case of critters, an explosie?

In case of an epidemic, an uitbraak.

For volcanos, uitbarsting or eruptie.

@ab2 Quel horreur!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

01:08

@Cerberus wow that was a lot of advice!

Thanks

My wife isn't really into art so we probably won't do too many art museums. We do like local history though.

We're going in September

user1732

for two weeks?

tchrist

@Cerberus One might think, at some level, that an irruption and an eruption would be opposites.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

For one week

user1732

cool

:-)

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Does that include architecture?

There's also the Muiderslot nearby, a well preserved mediaeval castle, also nice for children.

But also for adults.

Will you be taking them?

@tchrist Indeed; but the thing breaking out of its confines may be breaking into something else immediately after as a consequence or by so doing.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

01:38

@Cerberus no they're staying here with my parents. They have school.

But I do love castles. Like, probably too much. I want to live in one.

user1732

02:03

you should go to wales for castles/square mile

Færd

03:32

in Language Overflow, Dec 14 '16 at 11:53, by Færd

> 1- I will have completely finished tomorrow.
> 2- I will completely have finished tomorrow.
> 3- I will definitely have finished tomorrow.
> 4- I will have definitely finished tomorrow.

Or 1, 3, 4, 2, in order of personal preference. But I just don't know.

user1732

whatever you feel comfortable with is fine

Færd

1 is compared with 2 and 3 with 4, separately, to be clear. The mixed order is based on general good-sounding.

user1732

personally, i would say " I will definitely be finished tomorrow."

Færd

@user1732 Really? Would anyone ever be comfortable with 2?

@user1732 RIP :)

user1732

:-)

Færd

03:38

But yeah, that's another choice.

@Cerberus If I ever come to Amsterdam, it will be to do exactly that.

Feeds

-1

Q: Single word for honesty about limitations/weaknesses?

Is there a single word for honesty about limitations/weaknesses? E.g., accountability? humility? I am updating based on the comments. My main interest is to say: we have some idea. We want to improve the reach of the idea. However, the idea has limitations. We also want to be forthright ab...

Færd

03:55

@user1732 Do you speak American English?

SmokeDetector

05:37

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, +6 more: Reviewww.healthcareorder.com/keto-fire/ by jacksion on english.SE

user1732

07:40

@Færd yes

@Færd 2 sounds like British English

Færd

10:44

@Feeds I'm not sure if it is. I only asked that because you preferred the non-perfect structure, plus I had an inkling that you were Skull Petrol. :)

(by "non-perfect" I mean without auxiliary have)

Matt E. Эллен

@user1732 nope. that word order seems really wrong to my British ear

user1732

@MattE.Эллен yeah, perhaps with more context...

...sounds like a Bertrand Russell sentence :P

Matt E. Эллен

@user1732 I don't think so. There are 0 hits in the google ngram viewer

I see "X will completely have" does get some hits, but compared to "X will have completely" it looks like a statistical error

user1732

11:00

@Færd Feeds =?= Skull Petrol

Educ

12:47

hi

Matt E. Эллен

13:02

I was editing my tag preferences, and all the ones that don't exist on the site got removed :(

I was told "your-face does not exist on the site"

so now I can't ignore your-face

tchrist

13:16

@MattE.Эллен There's been some discussion of this unexpected side-effect in various places.

Matt E. Эллен

I remember the sad day dating-advice was removed

tchrist

Matt E. Эллен

@tchrist well, I should have expected it. No Fun Allowed!

tchrist

There are at least three errors there. Name one.

Matt E. Эллен

weird pixels on the right hand side

tchrist

13:18

Very good, that's two.

The weird pixels exist just on the right part of each of the two cells.

Matt E. Эллен

yeah

tchrist

When's the last time you ever "W atched" something?

Matt E. Эллен

I watched a video about an hour ago

tchrist

No, you watched it, you didn’t w atch it.

Matt E. Эллен

true

tchrist

13:21

We’re using Georgia but not its keming rules, so it looks horrible at display sizes.

Matt E. Эллен

and the words seem too close to the right hand side

tchrist

Yes, the three horizontal gaps are all differently spaced.

The space in front of Ignore is much less than the space following it.

I suppose I should post this as a bug so that everyone can twitch each time they see it.

Once you start being able to see dead pixels, you'll find that they're everywhere.

Matt E. Эллен

I guess those weird pixels are the beginning of T

tchrist

EW

Matt E. Эллен

tchrist

13:26

Oh they seem to have fixed it already.

Hm no.

Matt E. Эллен

where are you seeing it?

tchrist

Click on any tag and go to its "Tagged Questions" page. I swear it's changed since last night.

Matt E. Эллен

Ah! ok. that's where I grabbed that image from

tchrist

All GUIs are inherently fritterware.

And getting the CSS right is equivalent to that task.

Matt E. Эллен

lol, yeah

tchrist

13:32

Sometimes I despair of making artful allusions to classical literature on our site.

Matt E. Эллен

Family Guy is classical literature?

tchrist

We'll see what good calling it gibberish will do them when the vorpal blade goes snicker-snack.

@tchrist WOW! you are not abusing your power on this site, but you are also abusing English language by using gibberish and thus demeaning other volunteers. OP haven't asked a set of rules for coining new words, but a general guidelines for using neologism. I guess, you should read the description again. — Looper 17 mins ago

@MattE.Эллен No, but Carroll is. And in my circles, Black Adder.

Matt E. Эллен

:D

at first I thought "cutease" would be about some kind of enzyme.

tchrist

@MattE.Эллен Hence my final sentence.

I thought the very same thing.

Matt E. Эллен

lol

of course!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:43

I thought it was something to do with cutting. Like maybe a language.

tchrist

Wouldn't that be cuttease with a double T? :)

No, Cuttese is a branch of Cantonese.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Cutese, the language of cutting

tchrist

I can't pronounce that that way.

Needs a double-T.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Me neither, but you know. People sometimes coin words without regard to tradition

Matt E. Эллен

:-o

how dare they

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:45

It's shocking, I know

tchrist

Probably our mutual ignorance in these newly formed tentacles on the English lexicon could be remedied if only we spent a lot more time hanging out with 14-year-old girls. But that sort of thing tends to land one in jail.

Matt E. Эллен

I'll have them know our four bears would not appreciate their willy-nilly wordsmushing

Feeds

0

Q: A person who doesn’t drink much to control others?

I think I've heard it some time ago but I can't remember. Is there an English word or idiomatic expression for "A person who doesn’t drink much to control others"?

single-word-requests idioms idiom-requests expression-requests

tchrist

New York Times: They’re, Like, Way Ahead of the Linguistic Curve, or why all linguistic change begins with teenaged girls. :)

Matt E. Эллен

It's true

tchrist

13:52

Then the teenaged boys catch it because they're paying a lot of attention to the teenaged girls.

Then they grow up.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist I hang out with a ten year old girl. So give it four years.

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Or maybe two.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist To be honest she's already using new words all the time and it's only because I'm extremely hip that I recognize them as being older than her but younger than me.

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hip is mentioned at zombiesites.com/timewarpmemories/70slang.html

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

heh

tchrist

14:00

The somewhat odd thing is that while some of those feel dated, a surprisingly large number of them do not.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I wonder how many of them pre-date the Hippie culture

and were only included due to recency illusion

tchrist

Hipsters did, no?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'm not really clear on what a hipster is. That word gets thrown around a lot.

tchrist

I associate it with the Beat Generation.

I could very well be wrong.

Matt E. Эллен

"Are you decent?" was slang?

I guess

tchrist

14:04

See what I mean?

Feeds

0

Q: To speak with you /OR/ To talk to you

1) I appreciate having the opportunity to speak with you and get your thoughts. 2) I appreciate having the opportunity to talk to you and get your thoughts. 3) I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you and get your thoughts.

single-word-requests meaning grammar grammaticality verb-agreement

tchrist

But: pop a wheelie, gag me with a spoon, sit on it.

Matt E. Эллен

sit on it, Potzy

tchrist

That's the Dy-no-mite bit.

There's also a moderately productive suffix that came from that show.

Think perfectamundo.

Correctamundo, exactamundo.

And notice that the "adjective" portion (perfecta-, correcta-, exacta-) is always a Latin(-derived) word ending in -a, and thus feminine. Fonzie was riffing on not quite understanding how to derive adverbs in Spanish by putting the adjective in the feminine and adding -mente. He added -mundo instead as a malapropism.

Feeds

14:21

0

Q: What is a hiking trail consist of stones called?

I am looking for a proper word, which can be used to describe a trail, consisting of small stones. Sample Sentence: Since the trail has several steep climbs and consist of stones (what is the proper word here), it is not an easy hike.

single-word-requests vocabulary

tchrist

There's a word for that?

If there is, it would be in Robert MacFarlane’s Landmarks.

Found it!

Or one of many.

bostal: pathway up a hill (Kent, Sussex)

cabsy, cabzy: raised road or footway liable to flood (Essex)

cansey, cawnie: causeway, raised path (Suffolk)

There are like five pages of these.

tacks: zigzag way up a cliff or hillside (Isle of Man)

Those are nouns. An adjective is wilsome: of a way or path: leading through wild and desolate regions (Scots).

Not that I expect any of these to be known outside their own small corners of Britain.

And pages of verbs for walking funny. :)

shulve: to saunter with extreme laziness (East Anglia)

hirple: to hobble, walk with a limp (Northern Ireland)

And now we know what rhymes with purple.

Well, in English. I can't speak for the North Irish. :)

For all I know they might say heeRRple

lagger: broad, green lane (Herefordshire)

On the Isle of Jersey, a perquage is a sanctuary path leading from church to sea by the shortest route.

"per + quay" ?

No, probably not.

A bostal is also spelled borstall.

Related to barrows.

It’s disputed whether the word comes from OE beorh-stígel or from OE beorh-steall.

So, hill-stile vs hill-seat.

eald enta geweorc

"Wellstone" was masonry.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:48

@tchrist What an oddly-specific thing to require a word for

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Perhaps it's an extension of the historic practice of claiming sanctuary within sanctified grounds (a church)?

But yeah, I wonder what need drove that word's creation.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Probably two guys having a laugh

making up words

Then their friends start using it

Eventually people forgot it was a joke

Like the word cromulent. I use it all the time and my daughter is sure to start using it some day.

tchrist

theislandwiki.org/index.php/…

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

She isn't really aware of its humorous origins.

tchrist

Aye, I was right!

> The perquages, or percages, are an oddity supposedly found only in Jersey. Unknown in Normandy and England, they are not even to be found in Guernsey or the other Channel Islands.

Since the 17th century perquages have been equated in popular belief with sanctuary paths, which are said to have led from each parish church to the sea by the shortest, most direct route.

Before the Reformation, criminals and those accused of crimes who wished to escape prosecution could claim sanctuary in the church and were then allowed to leave the Island by walking down the sanctuary path to a boat, never…

> Se aulcun damné ou fuytif s'enfuyt a l'eglise, ou en cymitiere ou en lieu sainct, ou il se aert [saisir] a une croix qui soit fichée en terre, la justice laye le doit laisser en paix, par le privilege de l'eglise, si qu'elle ne mette la main a luy. Mais la justice doibt mettre gardes qu'il ne s'enfuye d'illec.

Proving that the French have always been bad spellers.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:57

weird.

I mean, if you want to allow people to leave the island, under the claim of sanctuary, you don't need to make a special road for it, nor give the road a special name

tchrist

It's not a short webpage, either.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

> Conclusion
The perquages were not sanctuary paths. There was no such thing as a sanctuary path. The myth equating sanctuary path to perquage and the consequential striking of a route from each parish church to the sea should now finally be laid to rest.

The right of sanctuary existed and was well used, there was no need for special paths. This is not to say that a perquage was never part of the chosen route followed by a forbani from his place of sanctuary to a boat, but such was not the raison d'etre of the perquage.

tchrist

That's less silly then.

The ancient right to travel along the edge of a waterway can be found in various places.

MetaEd

16:25

Mornin!

Matt E. Эллен

17:02

γειά σού

tchrist

17:14

I so swear that senility has set in. I know longer understand anything.

Like the difference between knowing things and noing things.

Kit Z. Fox

yawns

what up?

tchrist

Good morning!

It's a brand new month.

Matt E. Эллен

foist uv oigist

tchrist

We were reading about perquages.

In weirdo French.

That's restrictive not descriptive.

Kit Z. Fox

@tchrist Oh, so it is!

Wasn't it just August?

tchrist

17:17

I thought it was always September.

But yes, now September is coming.

Kit Z. Fox

That must be a GoT joke.

So what did I miss?

Augh, all those single stars on the starboard star board.

Matt E. Эллен

There is some consternation over rules for using a neologism. Which is surprising because I would have thought the answer would be "whenever it fits the context and you want to use it"

but what do I know

Kit Z. Fox

Oh I made a meme ...

Matt E. Эллен

the question has just been deleted though, so I guess we don't need to worry anymore

Kit Z. Fox

if I can call such a thing a meme.

also it contains swearing

Matt E. Эллен

17:19

:D

I think so

Kit Z. Fox

It's funnier if you know what "sealioning" is.

Matt E. Эллен

what's sealioning?

Kit Z. Fox

Is @Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 here?

Matt E. Эллен

not by the looks of it

Kit Z. Fox

wondermark.com/1k62

He's the one I associate with Wondermark.

But that's the explanation of sealioning.

Well, the origin.

Matt E. Эллен

17:21

ah! I remember that one :D

that does make it funnier

Kit Z. Fox

I associate it with "well actually"ing, but it's not really.

just similarly annoying behavior

so you might be wondering about my long absence.

I've spent the last two years honing my meme skills.

Matt E. Эллен

lol

Kit Z. Fox

and meditating

Matt E. Эллен

so you're now a teenager with lots of free time and an internet connection?

Kit Z. Fox

!

Matt E. Эллен

17:28

and meditating

Kit Z. Fox

hahaha

Jasper has written me several times and I used to write right back, but things changed and that's harder to do now. Anyway, is he around these days? Hi Jasper, if you're reading the transcript!

Matt E. Эллен

He emailed me the other day, I wrote back. He's OK, still the same struggles

Feeds

0

Q: Can I use "gilded" with an abstract concept?

I've perused several examples of how I could use the word "gilded" but I don't see many abstract uses of it. By definition, it means to be covered in gold. Can it also be used with abstract concepts? Here's an example sentence I came up with. The forests were gilded with the melodious voice of L...

single-word-requests

Matt E. Эллен

it's funny that I can't accept "I wrote him", but "I emailed him" is fine.

(i.e. it has to be "I wrote to him")

Kit Z. Fox

I wrote him a letter.

coughs

Matt E. Эллен

17:31

also "I emailed to him" is wrong

tchrist

I've been finding youths in the northeast of America using indirect objects a bit more often than I remember in my own childhood in the midwest.

Matt E. Эллен

@KitZ.Fox yeah, but without the "a letter" it's weird (for me).

Kit Z. Fox

I'm certain you are not referring to me.

tchrist

I am not.

Kit Z. Fox

see, that was funny, right?

@MattE.Эллен Hmm.

tchrist

17:39

I should refer you the right person.

Kit Z. Fox

I wrote him. I wrote him five days ago and haven't heard back.

How do you feel about "I rang him"?

Matt E. Эллен

for me it's like you're just writing the word "him"

Kit Z. Fox

or "I phoned him" v "I texted him"

Matt E. Эллен

those are all fine

Kit Z. Fox

interesting

tchrist

17:40

You can ring someone up.

But probably not the nose.

Kit Z. Fox

My Albanian friend offered to knock me up in the morning for breakfast.

Matt E. Эллен

:-o

tchrist

They've learned a different flavor of English. :)

Kit Z. Fox

She was so cool. She taught me how to smoke.

She was a revolutionary, first one I ever met.

tchrist

This happens all the time with Spanish, where what's mundane in one country is naughty or silly or hilarious in another.

Matt E. Эллен

17:41

tbf "knock you up" is something I've heard native speakers say not meaning make pregnant

but rarely

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive body detected: Word for speaking without concern for word meaning by Plown Over on english.SE

Kit Z. Fox

I watched all of the telenovela Gran Hotel recently. some of the subtitles were ... glossed over.

"You are charged with forsaking the martial bed!"

tchrist

> 6d. To rouse or summon (a person, esp. from sleep) by knocking at his door. (Usually with complement: see also to knock up at Phrasal verbs) colloq.

Kit Z. Fox

Yes, that's what she meant. She hadn't learned the other meaning of the phrase.

She thought it was hilarious.

She had a booming laugh.

tchrist

> To arouse by knocking at the door. (This sense is not current in the U.S.)

> 1973 National Observer (U.S.) 3 Feb. 7/1 Fielding's guide-book considerately explains that a male host may quite casually tell a female American house guest that he will ‘knock you up at 7:30 tomorrow morning’. The term, of course, conveys nothing more than a rapping at the door until one is awakened.

> 10. To make (a woman) pregnant; (less commonly) to have sexual intercourse with (a woman). slang (orig. U.S.).

Feeds

17:46

0

Q: Word for speaking without concern for word meaning

What I want to describe (concisely) is when a person speaks, but they use words that don't work with what they are talking about. It's not that they're ignorant, glib, prolix, ostentatious, or pretentious in their speech. Often the word choice is a common, simple word. It's just not right. Th...

single-word-requests

Kit Z. Fox

yeah, because what else do you think will happen when a man comes to knock you up in the morning.

Matt E. Эллен

18:09

mmmm pizza. bbl

Mitch

18:53

@KitZ.Fox spits tea all over keyboard

@KitZ.Fox Love is a battle field

@MetaEd OK. Re neologisms. The OP wants it answered by ELU/Ling people. The Writing.SE people are answering as though she's asking "When is it OK to make up words?" and she is expressly not asking that. Augh.

But I understand that the OP was the one who crossposted.But that was because of the poor reception.

Of course I have a poorly thought out answer for her. A lengthy partially educated one. That it deserves. BUt I don't want to put it on writing.SE because it's not writing advice. it's more along the lines of when is a new word an actual word

Færd

@user1732 Oh no, sorry. Never mind. I mistook you for someone else.

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Are the results out yet?

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…