This sad, embarrassing wreck of a president. From George Will, no less. (@tchrist take note)

@Cerberus this is bad practice

What if you make some edit and only after a week discover some bug?

You don't have any file history to track your changes

You can't revert back

I can revert back to a back-up.

But I don't edit the files directly except on rare occasions.

@Cerberus Wow, a triple redundancy. Well played, sir!

The more, the better!

I used to do so, some old days. This is bad.

All of your edits are always run on production

@Robusto too little, too late

Any mistake - your users get errors

Or possible data corruption if you mess with models

You should use local or stage server to make changes, test, then deploy

This is a small magazine.

Sooner or later you will hit yourself in a knee with this workflow

With a fairly simple Wordpress website.

So it is very simple to make local environment

I would have to spend more time setting that up than I spend on the website now in an entire year.

I'm paid by the hour.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I'm foraging for scraps these days.

@Robusto yeah

@Cerberus its up to you, better stick with good practices, it will make your work easier and more error prone

@VadimGalygin *less

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 oops :D

@VadimGalygin You're probably used to big projects and big organisations!

@Cerberus I do support some old project deploying code right to production, we are rewriting the system now

and it is a HELL

I can imagine.

@Cerberus something like media.giphy.com/media/XjlNyeZp5lDri/giphy.gif

Haha.

so try to avoid this as much as you can

you will be a lot more happier if bad things not happen in production

But you probably work for a bigger company.

I find Trump's Russian ties and relations blown out of proportion, especially following his recent farce of a summit.

Partly by the media for political purposes, and partly instigated by misplaced sense of nationalism and nationalist concern.

Wut?

His words aside (we know they don't count as shit, right?) I can find few points where Trump's-age America has been more lenient or even less provocative with Russia in action, on the ground, than Obama's.

I see words have been typed but I have difficulty parsing them.

@Færd Are you serious?!

I think they're clear enough, grammatically.

Can we have some alternative for PackageDescriptionSuggestions? I like it, but it is much longer than all my other models :(

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, I am.

I only live in one nation, and am protective of it, naturally, so I must have a concern for it.

I agree with Faerd that Trump has not resulted in a strong change of attitude from America towards Russia, but some smaller changes are apparent.

@Færd The main way Trump is serving Russia's interests is by systematically attacking the international groups that oppose Russia, such as the G7, Nato, the EU

That he is certainly doing, yes.

You mean international.

Obama avoided confronting Putin in Ukraine, Syria, and he approached Iran (an important ally of Russia) with relatively open arms.

Trump's foreign policy is at best in shambles and at worst a directed effort to reduce total American power and influence overall and to weaken and divide America's allies

Trump sent troops to Ukraine, and took active part in Syria.

@Cerberus fixed

And flagrantly torn apart the Iran Deal.

@Færd Don't be fooled. Russia would love it if the US got involved in war with Iran

I'm just saying that claiming that Trump is a Russian agent and has extensively colluded with Russia and stuff like that doesn't make much sense.

@Færd Dude. If Russia planted some kind of foreign agent into the presidency this is exactly what you'd expect them to do

weaken nato

weaken EU

@Færd So Obama's were sins of omission. Trump's are sins of commission. I hate this false equivalency bullshit.

tarnish the US's international relations with all friendly nations

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Russia would switch to another mode in the Middle Eastern scene of politics if that happened, but right now, their interest is not in such a war, no.

@Færd That is precisely what is being brought about, war on Iran.

@Færd Iran is only a Russian ally because they're both American enemies. If Iran could be brought into international cooperation mode they wouldn't need to be friendly with Russia and could become an American ally in time.

I meant full-on military war.

@Færd What do you think "war on Iran" means? Harsh language?

Why everyone is talking about Russia everywhere? They have nothing but nuclear weapon

Economy is 10,000 times weaker than US

Well, if you want to change the subject, we could. But I still believe in what I said about Trump.

@Robusto No, they want regime change. And they're clear about it.

And they wouldn't mind substituting some destructive terrorist cult like the MeK for the current regime.

@Robusto Those weren't sins exactly?

@VadimGalygin Yeah, in most ways Russia is no immediate threat.

I meant Obama was right in trying to avoid provoking Russia.

When he did.

@Færd I agree with you that Trump is most probably not following Russian instructions, or, if he is, very poorly. But he is the kind of president that Russia really wanted for America.

@VadimGalygin They're not dangerous, they're just literally bribing the president to get what they want.

Because he is doing the things Mr Shiny mentioned.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 oh, this is bad thing. Sorry I'm not good in politics

@Cerberus Given how stupid Trump is I can't imagine how this would look different if he WERE following direct instructions.

@VadimGalygin China is a lot more peaceful, though.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 He could deliver state secrets into Russian hands.

@VadimGalygin ZTE (chinese telecom) found guilty of reselling American tech to Iran (enemy nation). US says ZTE cannot buy any US tech, ZTE says they will close.

He could tell Russia it could invade whichever country it liked and America wouldn't interfere, not even if it were a NATO country.

Chinese government invests $500,000,000 in a Trump project in singapore

Trump says "we must help ZTE! So many jobs lost", reverses ban

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Iran is more willing to internationally cooperate than you think, as regressive as its regime is.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I read about that, but I did feel it was a bit more nuanced than that.

If Obama had done anything 1/10th as treasonous he would have been impeached in 10 minutes

@Færd Sure, they signed the deal, right?

And I think it's important for Russia to prevent the establishment of another US ally and military base under its nose, so there's that.

Indeed.

But Trump is pissing all over that deal, while also not punishing ZTE who sold tech to Iran....

@Cerberus Basically in the way he treats NATO. I'd agree with that.

Yes, NATO, the EU, but also the way he governs America.

He makes it weaker internally.

And he says some nice things about Russia from time to time.

@Færd It's not just NATO though. He imposed tariffs on Canada! He's trying to make enemies of everyone

Indeed.

But the rest of the West is just sitting it out.

You can imagine how Merkel and May must be talking about him when they are alone.

I assure you, even Merkel won't remain polite.

If I were Putin I would value Obama's willingness of cooperation and the stability and predictability of his policies over this loose canon named Trump.

His policies aren't even cohesive or consistent, so he fiddles holds campaign rallies while America burns, and even lights a few fires, then he insults all of America's friends

@Færd But what could Trump do that would damage Putin's position?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's a nice comparison.

As I said, Trump's took active military measures in Ukraine. He sent troops.

@Færd No, Obama (and presumably Clinton) would be punishing Russia with sanctions. The only reason the US still is is because Trump couldn't veto the sanctions alone.

@Færd Well, how is that bad for Putin?

@Færd an empty gesture

Still a gesture.

@Cerberus It's open confrontation.

What if some small-scale conflict broke out between America and Russia in Ukraine. How would Putin feel about that?

Is confrontation really against his interests?

He doesn't want a big war, to be sure.

@Cerberus Won't happen with Trump in the White House. Trump is afraid even to talk back to that dictator.

BTW, Andy Borowitz wonders if Kim Jong Un is miffed that Trump is seeing other murdering dictators. He thought they had a special relationship.

@Cerberus He doesn't. As he showed in the case of Turkey, after his planes were shot down.

@Robusto I don't think it's likely either.

@Robusto Heh.

@Færd I think the Turkish situation was different.

A small-scale conflict may be in Putin's interest under the right circumstances.

Which was not the case with Turkey.

@Cerberus I think there are parallels. Any big war between the two states would invite NATO members and the US to intervene.

And Ukraine was I think a disappointment for Putin.

More blame-America-first bullshit from Trump

@Færd That is true.

I'm saying chaos could erupt in less stable, more militarized conditions.

It's always dangerous.

And this administration does not try to avoid that with Russia on the battlefield.

Let's turn to Syria now.

How many degrees is that?

begins to turn

The troops from Montenegro are already amassed at the border

This conversation has been thought-provoking.

Oh no Mitch

I think Obama was much more careful with Putin in Syria too.

@Mitch Instead of defending Montenegro we'll probably attack Canada.

But as you all rightly pointed out, this discussion should not be limited to military confrontation.

But it remains a very important aspect of the scenario.

@Robusto Canada? The US should attack North Dakota first.

That'll be our invasion path through to Canada

I still think Trump is doing a lot of things in ways that Putin is happy with, despite those other things you mention about which Putin is less happy.

I feel like Putin isn't that conniving or manipulative of Trump, he just says little offhanded remarks in passing that Trump will unconsciously pick up on. At first I thought when T mentioned Montenegro that Putin was behind the scenes slapping his forehead thinking "I told him not to mention that it would mess up the plans. But instead, P probably doesn't care, it's just another whilrwind distraction to mess with everybody.

@Cerberus which is to say I agree

I just think the man is mentally incapable of conducting a full-fledged collusion with Putin to overturn an election.

@Mitch Well, don't be surprised if it turns out that way.

Saying that he did would be flattering.

@Færd Right, he's not smart enough to know how to do that.

And Trump acts obsequiously towards all sorts of dictators all around the world.

Or lavishes them with praise.

Rodrigo Duterte comes to mind, but I'm sure there's more.

@Robusto I know people are making all sorts of historical comparisons, but I feel like Americans surely wouldn't go that far. T is really so incompetent that just holding the title president is slowly not being enough to follow his directions. He's made all sorts of proclamations that aren't being followed.

So his relations with Putin is not exceptional.

@Færd BUt also, smart people like Putin are stoking lots of fires and hopefully some of them will work out probability wise.

I believe they do. As smart people do all the time.

Do you think America never "interfered" with Russian elections in any way? I should look into that.

But I wouldn't be surprised to find out they tried to. They have certainly done so in the case of Iran.

@Mitch Right. He cowered like a dog kicked in the stomach after Fox news started bashing him over his summit with Putin.

Hmm. Why I addressed this remark to that message needs a bit clarification.

@Mitch Maybe he does talk to Trump on other occasions and influences him that way. Or through intermediaries, such as the people around Trump. Some of Russian conexions, like Manafort?

Prolly the latter.

Trump cannot be trusted with any secretive plot of that magnitude.

Or both.

It's really easy to influence Trump.

@Færd That's a bit of the 'whataboutism' that people here (in the US) are complaining about as an argumentation tactic (which Trump supporters tend to use). Like the above "Obama didn't do anything either", sure maybe it was the same thing, but people weren't happy about that either and he wasn't actively trying to ruin things.

The Farage did just a few days ago.

@Cerberus Influencing is different than having him actively involved.

Yes.

@Færd That isn't really relevant though. The fact that the US may or may not have interfered in other nations' elections shouldn't make the Americans blasé about Russian interference in their own elections.

@Cerberus I think the 'tear it all down' look of things is Bannon. He's still an influence, either on the phone or just unconsciously.

But it's the influencing that's worth so much to Putin.

He could never have influenced Obama, or even Bush, I think.

Evidence has come up recently that Russia meddled in the Brexit vote too

@Mitch Yes, amongst others that we may have no idea about.

Because UK leaving EU means EU is weaker and UK is weaker. It just grows Russia's relative strength if all its opponents are weakening themselves.

By the way, @Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 and @VadimGalygin , it may please you to know that the SSL thingy is actually working!

@Cerberus yay!

It even rewrites the many http links that are in the bodies of pages.

@Cerberus I still had the browser open and can confirm it WfM

Which would otherwise have involved diving into Mysql commands and stuff.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Good. What's that abbreviation?

@Cerberus Works for Me

@Færd I don't think there's anything to be kept secret. They don't even whisper in his ear. He's so playable, they just say out loud "Gosh, I wonder what it would be like if some terrible thing but should end up getting Trump another building or loan? ha ha ha that's terrible it should never happen" and then T thinks it's his own idea.

Windows for Men?

Ah, OK.

But time to run, ttyl

Bai!

Thanks for helping.

@Cerberus yay! was it easy to do? adding SSL that is.

@Mitch Yes, it was.

I was afraid some unexpected issues might have occurred, which I would have had no idea how to fix.

was it a wordpress script you did yourself or did you have to ask someone else to flip a switch or something?

SSL and signed certificates is just one of those things that should automatically part of the deal but for some reason is not.

like...

trying to think of another thing like that

like wifi passwords?

like health insurance?

like uploading your consciousness to the cloud?

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ haha...wait, what?

@Mitch I had to request a certificate from my hosting company, which they then applied automatically to the server/domain.

Then I had to activate a Wordpress plugin the hosting company told me to.

@Mitch You're right.

@Mitch I meant, um, well, you know, um, your messages are too thought-provoking

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You are too.

Of course that's what I meant. What else could I have meant?

I'm just saying this type of thing is too commonly done around the world to take a treasonous Trump as a secrete agent as a necessary condition.

@Mitch And yes, he's so stupid that others wouldn't have to worry about keeping all their actions secret.

@Cerberus Oh. Not exactly the simplest thing ever. Talking to a human, even by email or chat, can be difficult to get done so quickly.

I actually agree with a lot that was said here.

My main point was that people shouldn't be angry at Trump and Trumpism because he's treasonous or guilty of collusion. There are more obvious reasons.

G'night.

@Færd It's like the burglar, when caught, complaining to the cops about the pickpockets.

@Færd Oh. Yeah. Totally.

I think those are easy angry words to throw around to rile people up.

Which would take their attention away from the more important matters.

We don't know the real story, those could very well be true. But there's a lot that's bad already without claims of collusion or treason

@Færd I don't think many people would believe that he was a secret agent for Russia.

@Mitch No, all of that went automatically!

@Cerberus oh. nice

@Mitch I could imagine your next election being about who hates Russia more? And that's a terrible distraction.

@Færd I think there's just so much to be angry about that Russia...well, good point. I've heard that 'Russia' as a topic will be used as a primary campaign device.

@Færd I don't think, however, that we can exclude that someone in Trump's campaign group talked to the Russians or their proxies to coördinate some effort to bring victory to Trump. And Trump may have known about it, too.

Of course the Russians wouldn't approach Trump and tell him exactly what they were doing.

I mean, not even in a weird way, wouldn't it be a good thing for the world if the US and Russia had better relations? But not this way.

They would only provide or receive whatever information they felt they needed and wanted to share.

@Mitch Yes. To some extent.

But perhaps not if it involved letting Putin conquer the Baltic countries.

@Cerberus Or T would somehow, through multiple misdirections, get promised his loan, or pay-off of his debt to Russian mafia, or those poor teenage girls he had 'disappeared'

Or letting Russian illiberalism influence American society.

@Mitch Yes, something like that.

@Cerberus or Ukraine or Crimea

By disappeared you mean paid for their silence?

and now Montenegro

@Mitch Indeed.

What is this about Montenegro?

@Cerberus keeps as silent as Putin

@Cerberus It could be totally reading between the lines of someone else reading between the lines a couple more levels deep, but supposedly some leader in Montenegro was assassinated presumably by Russia somethety something blah lah blah the US may not come to Montenegro's aid just because they're in NATO

@Cerberus What about the American illiberalism?

And about the history between NATO and the Soviet Union and them breaking their promises (more than once, perhaps?) of not advancing towards Russia?

And what the hell. It's 'NATO', right. Why do I keep seeing 'Nato'?

Ok I've read up on this issue. Trump just doesn't want to defend Montenegro.

@Mitch It was an attempted attack by Russian agents, or so says the leader of Montenegro.

It failed.

That was supposedly put in his head by some unheard mention by Putin

@Cerberus aha! i'm not totally making up everything I say!

Some of my words are actually English!

@Færd That is nothing compared to Russian illiberalism. And also a lack of respect for the rule of law and democracy.

Overrated

@Færd I believe those were not exactly hard promises.

But, yes, I understand that Russia is now unhappy about that.

@Cerberus They were just "not written".

@Cerberus That surprises me.

@Færd I don't believe so.

Corrected.

@Færd Umm Russia is on a different level in that respect.

America is a thousand times more democratic, liberal, and lawful.

At least internally.

@Cerberus It takes more conspicuously outrageous actions.

But they way that money compromises democracy inside the US should not be underplayed.

It's 1000x worse in Russia.

It is estimated that the people around Putin take away about 100 billion every year from the state.

Lawyers that oppose the government are falsely accused, then imprisoned, then tortured or killed.

Judges are absolutely not independent. They cannot rule against the instructions of Putin's party.

I wouldn't disagree.

Political dissidents are arrested, tortured, sent to prison camps on a regular basis.

But I don't know where you got that "1000".

This happens very rarely even in America.

Did I mention how most of Putin's most prominent political opponents have been assassinated?

The press is not at all free.

Etc.

Russia is still a functioning state.

But it isn't on the level of, say, Brazil or Poland or Indonesia in that regard.

@Færd Not internally.

To say that a state is a liberal democracy you need much more than not murdering people.

America is fairly liberal and democratic.

I don't think so. The decisive rule of big money in its politics does really compromise its democracy.

Less so than the case of Russia, but still.

The rule of big money is far worse in Russia.

Really on a different level.

@Færd It's a start!

How about murdering less people? Can I start with that?

If there's enough public pressure, even America will enact laws against big companies.

Like the banking laws.

@Færd That's a whole different conversation

But Putin would never do anything that seriously disadvantages too many oligarchs.

Unless he felt powerful enough that he could break a number of them. Which he doesn't.

@Cerberus but it surely happens to some degree. Right now. In the news (not supposed).

But that's to say I agree with you

it's a matter of degree

@Mitch Yes, it happens.

Are you thinking of a particular incident?

@Cerberus Well, that would take waking people up to the corruption, which corporate money tries to make sure doesn't happen.

So they both influence people but in different ways, or as you say on different levels.

@Mitch You could start with that, not claiming that I intentionally neglected that point.

I'm not trying to do Putin any favors here.

@Færd The banking laws were serious.

There are different ways to manipulate people. Some more brutal and ruthless, and some more insidious and pernicious.

To name a recent example.

@Cerberus There are more coming. And I hope they succeed in passing laws preventing candidates with ties with big companies and billionaires from running.

I hope so too, but that seems unlikely...

It would take a long time and a lot of struggle. But it's a more achievable goal in the US than in Russia. I agree with that.

@Cerberus Wilbur Ross Secretary of Commerce, insider trading possibility, because of laws or regs he put into action

As you say, there's quite a bit of corruption in the American system.

@Cerberus Elizabeth Warren is trying to rally the democrats behind such a bill.

@Mitch Is this related to those things about Russia I mentioned?

But I hope this Secretary is arrested, then.

@Cerberus I can't remember the details, but I vaguely remember that it wasn't related to Russia

@Færd That would be nice, but the Democrats are playing that game as well.

more likely to which tariffs would affect what

I'm sure Sanders would support her.

@Cerberus That's what I'm talking about. The bipartisan ploity is drenched in money to its boots.

@Cerberus I think his response was 'Oh I forgot' (when he was supposed to divest becaise of CoI, or 'Oh I had been planning that for long before hand' when he sold a bunch the day before something caused the stock to fall or something.like that

ELIZABETH WARREN V. THE DISTRICT OF CORRUPTION

But at least she probably won't be snuffed out because of that.

@Færd Ploity?

But, yes.

Still, not as bad as in Russia or most other non-Western countries, I suspect.

It's hard to know for sure.

The American problem is much better documented, especially in English.

@Mitch Lovely.

@Færd Exactly.

@Cerberus It's very different from Russia, but I wouldn't call that an acceptable example of a liberal democratic government.

@Cerberus Anything wrong with that?

@Cerberus potily

lptoiy

il y [a un] pot

@Færd It's not acceptable. But that wasn't my position.

@Færd Nothing, except that I don't know this word.

That was ODO. I like this definition from M-W better:

> 2 : a specific form of political organization

Oh, OK, you said ploity.

Sorry.

I didn't know which word you intended.

Mistake.

Ploy.

Politics.

@Cerberus Your position was that it's incomparable with Russia.

Yes, that the situation is a lot worse in Russia with respect to freedom, democracy, and the rule of law.

Not just a little bit.

No, but they're still comparable in my view.

One is more brutal and exacts a more vociferous moral rejection from people.

As it should.

But not at the cost of the other one being considered infinitely better.

I'm not sure I understand that.

American foreign policy has arguably been more destructive over the past 70 years.

We were talking about domestic liberalism.

Although Russian foreign policy has also killed quite a few people and destroyed a lot of freedom and democracy around Eurasia.

Yes.

Wish me good night man.

I need to go.

@Mitch you too.

Good night man.

Now you wish me good night

Thanks!

Now the spell is removed and I can go.

No, wish me good night

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Good night to you too!

trudges out

OMG

@Færd Sleep well!

@Robusto I have hurried the fuck up and believe it to be finished. Not set in stone, but completed.

Now can you find me a pianist cuz I can't play it.

instagram.com/p/BlZBZy9jqMq

Quick update on my progress. Or regress. Or Loch Ness.

@Cerberus