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7:02 PM
@Cerberus I am.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hi!
 
Oops.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Does this load for you at all?
And what happens when you click on "login"?
Great!
 
log in takes me to a wordpress login
 
Good.
Thanks for testing!
Someone said he got an error in Chrome.
 
7:05 PM
what was the error
 
The site wouldn't load for him, complaining about an SSL certificate.
But the site has never had SSL.
So I wonder how that happened.
 
for me it says "not secure"
 
Yeah, probably because has no SSL/https?
Where does it say that?
 
in the url bar
 
Ah, OK.
 
7:07 PM
if I put https:// it gives a certificate error
 
So perhaps this person is using an add-on that automatically tries to change http into https for sites.
Because the notification in your url bar would not be a problem.
 
yeah Chrome now puts "secure" or "not secure" for all sites
but a certificate name mismatch is treated as a more serious error
the site probably shouldn't respond on the secure port if it doesn't have a certificate
 
Right, but we don't use https, so there shouldn't be a serious error.
Right.
But I have no idea how I could turn that off.
It's just a Wordpress site hosted with a big hosting company.
Oh, well.
I'll just tell them that there doesn't seem to be a problem for other people.
 
You can probably get a certificate for free from Let's Encrypt
 
Probably, but I'd have no idea how to implement it, and we don't really need encryption.
I don't care if people's accounts get hacked as long as it isn't my admin account.
 
7:12 PM
The security really does two things: 1. prevents passwords from being stolen (including yours) and 2. gives users some notion that the site is powered by who it claims to be.
You really should have encryption on the login screen at least.
 
You should use HTTPS
 
In the past it was more of a theoretical problem but now with open wi-fi everywhere, people's credentials get stolen a lot
 
Most hostess now have free certificates
If you are on VPS you should use Let's Encrypt with auto-renewal
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I don't use open Wifi myself.
 
Also Google is fighting pretty hard to make the whole network require SSL
 
7:13 PM
For any forms you MUST have https, or browsers will display your page as insecure
 
And I don't care if other people's accounts get stolen, they can't do anything bad anyway.
 
they will delist sites or penalize them if they're not SSL
 
So better to have SSL enabled site-wide its really easy
If you need help enabling it I can do it
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, that isn't a problem.
 
Well, the thing is other people's accounts maybe can't hack the site, but if their accounts are stolen on your site and if they re-used a password maybe their accounts on other sites will also be compromised
 
7:15 PM
@VadimGalygin I would have no idea how to, and we have no forms, nor any user input. It's only used by users to read a magazine.
 
@Cerberus do you have login page?
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I set their passwords.
 
@Cerberus login and the admin is a form
 
@Cerberus you should never set manually any user passwords it is insanely NO-NO
 
7:16 PM
any user concerned A LITTLE with security will put red flag on your magazine
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 OK, but surely Wordpress uses some form of protection on that?
 
@Cerberus it does have CSRF protection
But SSL is required to not permit MITM attack on your website
 
@VadimGalygin Why not? I don't care if their passwords get stolen. It isn't a problem. They don't care either.
 
(Man In The Middle)
If ANY of your customers care
It will be bad for you
He will say to others
 
But they don't care.
 
7:17 PM
Or say at twitter about your website
Then you got bad rep
 
It's not a problem for them if someone else uses their account.
 
You know them all IRL?
I don't know why you are against any level of security
 
@Cerberus SSL is the protection. Wordpress assumes you're using it.
 
@VadimGalygin Worst case scenario, someone who isn't subscribed to the magazine can read the latest issue.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hmm OK.
 
@Cerberus what hosting are you using?
I'll show you how to get SSL cert
 
7:19 PM
Our hosting company is Yourhosting.
A Dutch company.
 
ok, let me look
 
I want to name database model as CommonPackageDescription for common descriptions for packages
 
I mean I have no idea what that footnote says
 
Is it OK? Or I need to use some other word
 
7:20 PM
What's common about it?
 
Popular descriptions
Like shoes, clothes
For package contents
 
So this table's records are frequently-used descriptions of the contents of packages (i.e. shipments)?
 
Will you have another table of uncommon package descriptions?
 
no
Its for admin panel
 
7:22 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Right, it seems to be free as long as you have a domain and shared hosting with them.
 
what happens if a package has something that's not in the list?
@Cerberus I'd strongly recommend getting it.
 
just put other description in text-field not listed by autocomplete
@Cerberus yourhosting.nl/hosting/ssl-certificaat what happens if you click order on this page
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Only for the unlikely situation in which my admin password gets intercepted somehow?
 
These descriptions are for autocomplete widget
 
"Common" sounds good.
As does the whole term.
 
7:25 PM
@Cerberus It's not that unlikely and it's not just the admin password and down the road if changes are made and features added you'll be glad to have it.
 
But Mr Shiny probably had more experience with database terms.
 
I used CommonPackageItemDescription on previous version, but I don't like it as its a bit longer what I want
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, everything else is really just not important. But I'll get it is it's easy and free. I'm just wondering about maintenance and errors. I've heard cases where websites became inaccessible when they misconfigured SSL.
 
Is this list used for any other purpose? if a user picks one, does it copy the text over or does it link to it by FK?
 
And I have no idea how it works.
 
7:26 PM
@Cerberus your hosting provider should make it easy.
And your site already has misconfigured SSL making it inaccessible via ssl.
 
@VadimGalygin Maybe PackageLabelSuggestion, if it can be called a label?
 
@Cerberus No, I don't think so. It's actual description of package contents, what's inside the package
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I can't know that, though...
 
If the list is just autocomplete suggestions I might call it "autocomplete_suggestions"
 
label might be fragile or so (I think this way)
 
7:28 PM
OK.
 
@Cerberus It doesn't look like you have to spend money to find out though
 
I'd prefer "suggestion" over "common" either way.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, but what if the site becomes inaccessible...that is my greatest fear.
 
PackageDescriptionSuggestion?
@Cerberus it IS inaccessible by https:// for now already
 
Sounds good to me, or what Mr Shiny says.
@VadimGalygin Yeah, but nobody should be trying to access it using https.
 
@VadimGalygin Strong warning to not call it "suggestion" if you're linking to that table rather than copying the text into some other table
 
7:30 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I am not linking anything to that table, it just uses data from table to fill the text input
Think of it as read-only table
with predefined values
 
do you have other autocomplete tables in the system?
 
I don't. I use Users table for autocompleting user names
 
I'm also concerned about moving to another hosting company: is that still easy if you're using SSL?
 
@Cerberus yes
 
So this table is really just a shortcut for "select top 5 package.description from package group by description order by count(*) desc"
 
7:31 PM
@Cerberus wordpress is very easy to move to other company
 
Even for someone who really has no idea how SSL works?
And certificates and all that stuff.
 
@Cerberus yes
 
Don't overestimate me!
 
I can guide you
 
@Cerberus It will be basically the same as setting it up SSL at your current hosting company
you don't need to transfer the certificate if you don't want to; you can get a new one even.
 
7:32 PM
The domain won't be blocked when you use the wrong certificate or something?
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 its something like: you type "A" in users first_name text field, and I query db with Users.where(first_name LIKE %A)
 
SSL is just a data file that your host uses to establish a secure connection.
 
@Cerberus domain is not related to hosting, you may not even have website on it :)
 
that data file can be verified by the browsers as having originated in some trusted Cert issuer's system
 
Domain is just link from IP-address to words
like instead of typing 1.1.1.1 you can go to google.com
This is what domains do
Hosting gives you server where you put your website
It is accessible by server IP address and domain you linked to that hosting
 
7:34 PM
Your website becomes unavailable when the computer answering to a particular domain presents an invalid certificate (expired or revoked) or a certificate that isn't signed for that domain name
Right now your site's SSL is using a hosting company's certificate
so if the browser ignores that the names don't match it can still be used for secure (encrypted) data transfer but the browser isn't sure who it's talking to
 
@Cerberus can you install team viewer so I can connect to your pc and we get a free certificate from your hosting?
 
If you create a new cert for your domain and install it on a new host, any traffic that reaches that new host will see the new cert, and if it's valid, it'll work
 
So it's not possible for e.g. the browser to complain when a domain presents the wrong certificate or no certificate at all, if it's registered somewhere(?) that the domain should have a certificate?
 
It doesn't work that way
 
@Cerberus browser will display warning to your users
 
7:36 PM
@VadimGalygin That's really kind of you, but that's something I'd rather not do.
 
most sites do not have and cannot have a pre-pinned certificate
 
@Cerberus no problem, just go through page with free SSL on your hosting company and we will go through each step
 
the "wrong" cert is when the server says "here's a cert for paypaI.com" but the domain is "paypal.com"
 
Okay.
@VadimGalygin The help page says I need to use a Wordpress plugin to apply the certificate to the site.
 
@Cerberus you don't.
 
7:38 PM
So it doesn't look too hard.
 
wordpress plugins are not related to SSL
 
@VadimGalygin Well, they're the hosting company, surely they would know!
 
A wordpress plugin might be needed in some cases if there's URL-rewriting that needs to occur that isn't happening on basic wordpress.
 
@Cerberus cert can't be issued by plugin
Cert will be issued by your hosting company
 
Oh, and will the SLL work seamlessly if I e.g. host a font at that domain and use it someplace else?
 
7:39 PM
Also it might be needed if the SSL doesn't terminate on the wordpress instance itself but rather terminates somewhere else inside the hosting provider
 
@Cerberus if you use google fonts or typekit they are on SSL already
 
@VadimGalygin Yes, I'd need to get the certificate from the hosting company, then use a Wordpress plugin to apple the certificate to the site, it says.
 
yes, see, hosting things like fonts probably requires SSL to work
 
@Cerberus certificate will be applied automatically
you may need to use plugin for URL rewriting
 
The app I used to work on had SSL terminating somewhere in the network so the app itself didn't know the connection was encrypted
 
7:40 PM
@VadimGalygin No, I want to host the font myself, then use it somewhere else in an CSS file on a different site. And also vice versa.
 
but this IS NOT required
 
so we had to make changes to it so that it wrote https:// in urls and stuff.
so if the hosting provider is doing that then maybe they do need a plugin
 
I have installed SSL by myself a lot of times on wordpress
Without any plugins or anything
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hmm I don't know.
 
This is complete bullshit actually, wordpress is smart enough to understand you have SSL or not
 
7:41 PM
@VadimGalygin listen: there may be cases where it isn't smart enough. I'm speaking from experience.
 
I remember there being trouble on another site I had to manage, some problem relating to SSL.
 
Maybe they want to promote some free* (with a lot of ads or some scripts injected) plugin
 
If your SSL is terminating in the web server that is serving wordpress, then yes, wordpress probably won't need a plugin
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 latest version will run on SSL without any config and plugins
SSL can't terminate somewhere else
 
If your SSL termiantes in a network appliance before it reaches wordpress, then wordpress will still think it's serving http content, not https
@VadimGalygin um. It totally 100% can.
 
7:42 PM
If you are not using heroic or Cloudflare or AWS
 
@VadimGalygin I don't think so: this is the plugin: wordpress.org/plugins/really-simple-ssl
 
It can terminate anywhere
 
*heroku
 
You can terminate your SSL on the cache servers if you are so inclined.
In fact you have to if you're using a CDN
 
That sounds complicated...
 
7:43 PM
what do you mean by terminating?
 
you can then establish a NEW SSL connection from the CDN cache server to the origin server, sure
 
What should I do if I need to use Cloudflare, say, a year from now?
 
@Cerberus it just sets url rewriting > Really Simple SSL automatically detects your settings and configures your website to run over https
 
browser opens TCP/IP connection to a server
that server may or may not be the origin server for the content
 
@Cerberus you can use Cloudflare right now, and it will give you free SSL
 
7:44 PM
@VadimGalygin OK.
 
without any config
 
or a cache
it might be a proxy
 
@VadimGalygin I once tried using Cloudflare, but I couldn't get it to work.
I followed the instructions, but some problem occurred.
 
@Cerberus you should change your dns servers to Cloudflare to make magic happen
 
I don't remember.
 
7:44 PM
If that server says "yes, I'm blahblah.com"; but really it's "cdn_yadda.hosting.com" then you'll get a cert mismatch
you need to publish the SSL certificate ON the edge of the network
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 wow thanks didn't know that!
🙈
 
That sounds complicated.
 
@Cerberus what about opening a ticket asking them to install SSL for you?
They most likely will help
Because it is just FEW CLICKS
 
They are trying to get you to pay for their service to do just that.
They charge €50 for doing a Wordpress update...
 
what the duck are you using
 
7:46 PM
So that plugin basically does what I thought it would do: rewrites links for hosted wordpress, which is mostly useful when the wordpress host isn't on the edge of the network
 
Hehe.
 
you can go with digitalocean.com
$5 month droplet
 
Installing an SSL certificate, they charge some other amount for that.
 
with preconfigured wordpress
but you have to config everything by yourself
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So are you suggesting a standard Wordpress install might not need that?
 
7:48 PM
Anyway @Cerberus I would play around with the hosting admin and see if you can get SSL working.
 
I don't actually know shared hosting providers unfortunately
 
@Cerberus This really depends on what a "standard" WordPress install is.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 What if it fails? Will restoring a back-up of the site restore everything back to the old situation 100%?
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The hosting company probably configured some stuff.
I used their 'standard' install.
 
@Cerberus You won't need to change the site content.
 
@VadimGalygin Or fortunately!
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So suppose I did something wrong, or some Wordpress plug-in fucks something up, and the site doesn't work any more. Can I restore the entire situation to the way it was?
 
7:50 PM
I guess what could go wrong is if somehow the SSL plugin on wordpress forces your browser to only use the HTTPS connection and simultaneously forces your browser to reject an invalid certificate.
 
@Cerberus make a database backup
 
Honestly though this should all be fine.
 
For example, I use this rather invasive firewall/security plug-in that might lock me out, or something.
 
So back to my question, is it OK if I go with PackageDescriptionSuggestions?
 
@VadimGalygin probably
 
7:51 PM
@VadimGalygin Yes, I will certainly back up the database and the site. Should that be 100% sure to restore everything to normal?
 
@Cerberus if you have database backup, all is OK. (you should have it anyway, your server might die, and you lose all of your data)
@Cerberus yes.
Everything is backed by database
files is not that important
 
I make databse back-ups on a regular basis, and so does the hosting company.
@VadimGalygin The files are important too, because I don't want to have to recreate the entire site from scratch again!
 
@Cerberus content is the king. everything else is not that important
focus on database security and backups
think about files later
 
No, my time is valuable.
I'm not going to spend a lot of time if I don't really have to.
 
if you lose your content, your files won't make anything better
users coming to your website for content
 
7:53 PM
I can't lose my content.
 
you actually can
 
There are back-ups everywhere.
 
where?
on your server?
what if server dies?
host your files with git on something like gitlab or bitbucket
you will have all file history, and won't lose it
only applicable to code, images not good for it
for images you should use something like AWS S3
 
@VadimGalygin In the shared hosting, in the hosting company's back-up system, on my hard drive, on my external hard drive. And the actual content (the magazine contents) are also backed up at Google and on other computers with the editing staff.
 
@Cerberus great! use git to backup your files and you are done :)
 
7:58 PM
@Cerberus I think you need to back up the list of places that you back up.
 
@VadimGalygin Well, the files are on the server, I edit them there directly if needed.
@Mitch If you memorize them, then your brain will be my back-up.
 

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