English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

KitFox

18:01

Oh, Boston is a great place to start though.

Monica

Better than Cali?

KitFox

Different.

Less hectic.

Friendlier, I think.

Monica

I have heard that some part of Los Angeles is bulit on bad soil

And that there is a crack

Cerberus

Isn't that SF?

Monica

According to Discovery it's in LA

KitFox

18:05

San Andreas goes through SF.

I suppose it might go through LA as well.

Mitch

We also have lots of natural disasters depending on where you live here: hurricanes, tornadoes, fires, earthquakes.

Cerberus

There was some earthquake not far from LA a few years ago, I think.

Monica

is that really so dangerous there because of that crack?

Mitch

Bad snow up north, bad heat in the south.

Monica

:(

Mitch

18:07

fault, not crack.

Monica

fault?

KitFox

San Andreas Fault

The San Andreas Fault is a continental transform fault that runs a length of roughly through California in the United States. The fault's motion is right-lateral strike-slip (horizontal motion). It forms the tectonic boundary between the Pacific Plate and the North American Plate. The fault was first identified in Northern California by UC Berkeley geology professor Andrew Lawson in 1895 and named by him after a small lake which lies in a linear valley formed by the fault just south of San Francisco, the Laguna de San Andreas. After the 1906 San Francisco Earthquake, Lawson also disco...

Mitch

a fault is a crack, it's just that for such a thing in the earth where earthquakes start, it's called a fault.

if it is in one street or in plaster on the ceiling or wall, then it's a crack.

'crack' by itself is a drug. Quite a different thing.

Monica

:(

Jez

don't worry, it's not your fault

Monica

18:09

:D

KitFox

coffee time

Mitch

also the midwest, which only gets tornadoes, the people are nice but the landscape is terrifically boring. flatness for thousands of miles in every direction.

Jez

Are the people nice?

I thought the midwest was a bit rednecky

Cerberus

But New England is relatively safe, isn't it?

Mitch

where?

Cerberus

18:10

Just a few blizzards?

Monica

so my parents are right

they don't want to live there, but in Boston

which seems safer

Mitch

-every where- in the US is a bit rednecky, except the big cities and suburbs. 50 miles from NYC you're in rural New Jersey, or Downstate New York with the same gun/religion/poverty problems (not really that much) that people ascribe to the South.

Boston is expensive.

Jez

not that much?

Mitch

Miswestern big cities have the same problems as the coastal big cities.

Jez

last i heard there was massive poverty, religious nuts taking over women's vaginas, and most people thought they should be able to fire an AK47 at any trespasser

Mitch

18:14

'flyover country' starts at the end of the suburbs in all the east coast metropoliseseses.

Cerberus

*metropoleis

And where does it end?

Do you consider the west coast fly-over country too?

Mitch

@Cerberus It all depends...what part of town, what part of the countryside. Don't go to New Hampshire (in New England) during hunting season without wearing bright orange.

MetaEd

@Mitch I live in Texas. Round here we just shoot back.

KitFox

Hi @MetaEd!

Mitch

I'm not telling you what -I- think is 'flyover country', but what I think other people think it is without realizing it. Nominally flyover country is between the big west coast cities and the big east coast cities (NY, LA, SF, Boston, DC, etc).

where all the pundits and writers are, who don't have anything to say about anything in between.

MetaEd

18:18

@KitFox haudi!

Monica

I have to go

See you

KitFox

Bye!

Mitch

and think people who live between are parochial and uninformed and

later

Monica

take care, all

KitFox

@MetaEd Long time no see. How's you and yours?

Cerberus

18:19

@Mitch Noted.

@Mitch How about Chicago?

Hey my synaesthetic friend!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

18:31

Poor St. Andrea. It's always her fault.

0

Q: Circumflex on penultimate syllable

If you want to say that a word has a circumflex on its penultimate syllable, without saying flat out that it has circumflex there, is there a word for it?

single-word-requests

Okay, what the what.

I only know a word for "cedille on the third-to-last letter".

Cerberus

0

A: Circumflex on penultimate syllable

Properispomenon means exactly that. This unwieldy word is mostly used for Greek words.

KitFox

I think he meant "circumcision" on its "penis."

Cerberus

It seems an odd word to ask for if you don't already know it.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Cerberus that's the thing.

Cerberus

But it is a real word that is actually used.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

18:37

Someone's fishing for reps.

KitFox

Cerb has a sockpuppet!

Cerberus

Oh rats.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

No. Cerberus has a sockpuppy.

Cerberus

Was it the two bulges wriggling inside the sock?

While the middle head sticks out.

Robusto

@Cerberus So he wants an extremely recondite word for something, but one that is not too overt? Picky, picky.

Cerberus

18:43

@Robusto It's crazy, but then classicists are really crazy with terminology.

Actually, didn't I use this word to prove to you that even the most erudite person can be bested by technical words outside his field?

Robusto

I wouldn't remember.

Cerberus

We were talking about vocabulary.

Oh, well.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Robusto it's like that other guy the other day, who wanted the longest English word that's actually, and I quote, "usable".

Robusto

Wow.

If it wasn't usable, it wouldn't be a word.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Personally, I find GsadhdlwWHgsdfkshaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanolllll quite usable. In fact I am using it right now as we speak.

Cerberus

18:49

You also find кукурузный usable.

Mitch

@Cerberus That's exactly my point...Chicago, St Louis, Houston , Pittsburg, Denver, are all nominally in 'flyover country' but are just as urban/suburban with problems benefits as the coastal cities. So it's a made-up myth (unlike the real myths)

Cerberus

@Mitch Ah I see. A valuable distinction.

My friend is lyrical about Denver, somehow.

JSBᾶngs

denver is a very nice city

Cerberus

Hmm I'm not very impressed with what pictures I can find of the city itself.

KitFox

Hey @JSB do you know anything about asp.net chart controls?

Mitch

18:57

@Jez That's a media feeding frenzy, more made-up myths. I'm sure those issues affect a lot of people, but certainly not to the degree that the number of news stories about thm leads you to believe.

KitFox

Yeah, I come from a poor, rural state. I wouldn't say we have massive poverty here.

And women are all still enjoying legislation-free vaginas.

Also, AKs are for commies.

Mitch

@Cerberus ..and to add to what I said before, the rural 'redneck' culture is, to the big coastal cities, right outside their door.

Cerberus

I see.

I guess we have horrible villages close to big cities too.

Mitch

these nearby rednecks just may not have the same accent as the TV rednecks, dukes of Hazzard style.

Cerberus

Then they require education!

And possible less sunscreen in the neck.

Mitch

19:02

@Cerberus exactly..in Germany currently on the average one of the most pacifist nations, out in the small towns, lots of anti-immigrant sentiment and neo-Nazis (but in comparison to England hardly at all).

JSBᾶngs

what horrible rednecks are we on about now?

and @Kit, i know nothing about ASP chart controls. sorry

Mitch

all of them.

Cerberus

@Mitch Comparatively lots, yes, but...

Mitch

er...all of us?

Cerberus

Here most anti-immigrantion, populist voters live in rural Catholic areas, for some reason.

They aren't really any poorer than the Protestant country.

As to Nazis, we don't really have any to speak of.

Mitch

19:04

more education -and- more sunscreen

I would hazard that they just know not to speak out about it.

JSBᾶngs

i live in a small town in a largely rural state. it's fine here.

Cerberus

@Mitch Who?

Mitch

the neo-Nazis in holland that you have none to speak of.

Cerberus

Oh.

I don't think so.

They are just small.

Compared to Germany and England.

But, yes, what Nazis we have will be out in the country.

Mitch

I dont know anything. I'm making up my own myths. rather than letting things like facts get in the way.

Cerberus

19:10

Facts and children, what to do with them? Then can be trendy accessories, but more often they are just a hindrance to self-fulfillment.

Mitch

and really, what word has a circumflex there?

Cerberus

?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Robusto Well I do wonder if these people also walk into a store and demand the shortest longest rope, the biggest smallest shoes, the slowest fastest car, and the deadliest nuclear bomb their toddler can play with without getting hurt.

Mitch

he just means 'not made up to be real long on purpose but actually used'

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Mitch he dismissed a whole number of words that would fit these criteria.

Cerberus

19:13

@Mitch Plenty.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Including things such as psychophysicotherapeutics, which is really quite basic.

Radioimmunoelectrophoresis, pneumoencephalographically, otorhinolaryngological... That's not made-up stuff made up for the sake of madeupness.

Mitch

in the same wtf vein...

2

Q: Word for coolness corresponding to warmth

Is there a word for coolness corresponding to warmth?

single-word-requests

like both this other questions.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Coolnesscorrespondingtowarmth, duh.

Mitch

I bet you just made that up.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Oh my. Two upvotes and even answers?

Oh now I actually get it.

He's asking if there's such a thing as coolth.

KitFox

19:18

Damn, Reg, cool it. All those big words are firing up the furnace again.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Fear my big long huge phat wordily wordness words.

KitFox

fans self with tail

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Mitch but Lewis Carroll, above all things. Tsk tsk tsk. He should know better.

To know all about breadandbutterflies, but not be familiar with coolth. Epic fail.

Mitch

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I don't think so. If so, he would actually have been explicit.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Mitch well either way I have edited it to ask just that. Because that's what the answers are answering.

And yeah, his other questions.

0

Q: Labyrinth/ian/al/ic/ical/ine, one more?

I know five ways of making labyrinth into an adjective: labyrinthian, labyrinthal, labyrinthic, labyrinthical and labyrinthine. Is there another word?

single-word-requests

I submit labyrinthese. Now let's see if he can prove it's not a word.

Mitch

19:26

Dude, if you're going to spend time make questions better...

you'll be here all day.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Nononono. Only this one time. I promise.

Mitch

Ah..I see that you actually are.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Also, it's not exactly better. It's just less closeable.

Fewer, I mean. Fewer closable. Sorry @Kit

Robusto

The longest shortest really useful word is "meh" ...

KitFox

'sok

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

19:28

@Robusto you think that one's useful? Meh.

Robusto

See?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Meh.

Robusto

Again, see?

Wait, I mean the shortest longest really useful word. My bad.

KitFox

Ah HA! I finally figured out how to adjust the height of the chart areas. F-ckers thought they could hide that from me, but it didn't work, did it?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Robusto You must have missed the part where Mitch said that I'd be here all day. Meh.

Robusto

19:29

@KitFox Nah, that's just the part Microsoft wanted you to find. There will be more.

There will be blood.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Yeah. They do want you to see the smoke and the mirrors.

But seeing them won't make them go away.

KitFox

I hate them. I hate them so much.

cries

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

You are very original, my dear!

KitFox

ur jus tryn 2 mak me feel bettr

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Oh, am I?

I mean, of course.

KitFox

19:31

And here I am, having sexy dreams about you. pfft See if I do that again.

Nyah.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Nyah is the best word since sliced meh.

Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Nyah is the best longest shortest word. Meh is the best shortest longest word.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I just realized who Lewis Carroll reminds me of. Atilla NYC.

Posting riddles he knows the answer to. "Testing the community" or whatever.

Gigili

I want a source to answer questions like these:

Robusto

38

A: Is "guy" gender-neutral?

"You guys" is a familiar, all-inclusive way of addressing a group of men or women directly. That said, there are some important distinctions you must understand: "You guys" is more likely to be said in women => women or men => men or women => men or mixed-group => mixed-group contexts. It is les...

Now there's a colloquy discussing "y'all" in the comments to this answer. sigh

Gigili

19:41

Do you know any?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Robusto guy is so not gender-neutral if you come from Montpassant.

KitFox

@Gigili Wikipedia?

Gigili

@KitFox Which article exactly?

Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I just took your pawn en passant.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I knew you would make a joke with chess.

Which was one of the reasons I posted my comment, to see what it would be.

KitFox

19:43

@Gigili Whichever is pertinent.

Or impertinent, if you're into that.

Gigili

Why I didn't think of that.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

All the answers here are wrong and this question is a duplicate of this: english.stackexchange.com/questions/1176/… — z7sg Ѫ 4 hours ago

Brilliant. All hail z7sg.

Also, all close dupe.

Thx

KitFox

So I have chtTRL.Series.Add(osSeries) which gives me the error that the series name already exists, but if I comment it out, it tells me that the series doesn't exist.

WTF?

JSBᾶngs

that line is being called twice somewhere

if you comment it out, the total times is zero; otherwise the total times is > 1

try:

if (!chtTRL.Series.Contains(osSeries)) chtTRL.Series.Add(osSeries);

translate that to VB as necessary

Robusto

KitFox

19:56

Oh. Haha. I put it on the wrong side for the Next.

Added bonus that that means I've been resizing my axes six times.

@Robusto Mmm, so hungry.

JSBᾶngs

time for me to check out. i've got yardwork to do.

c'ya

KitFox

Later!

Mahnax

Hi!

KitFox

It's time for my departure as well.

See you later!

Robusto

Cyaz

Robusto

20:31

Me too. Out.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus: Properispomenon?! srsly? Is that actually a useful word?

Mitch

@Robusto well, we can make a question out of that (non OP relevant) thread if anyone's interested....isn't there one already, though?

@Gigili a course in translation? just for Farsi or for mostly general plus some Farsi specifics? There used to be the usenet newsgroup sci.lang.translation. I don't know what people do nowadays.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 It is a word, at least.

If you deal with accentuation on a daily basis, it is useful to have a single word for it, to some degree.

Mitch

@MrShinyandNew安宇 myths can be useful.

@Cerberus or a phrase

Cerberus

Perispomenon = circumflexus.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

20:37

@Mitch are you saying a properispomenon is a myth?

Mitch

any examples of such words?

no, that it looks like the word is a myth.

Cerberus

@Mitch This is probably shorter.

Mitch

but opaquer

Cerberus

Why are you all so upset about this word?

Mitch

I'm not upset.

about this word

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

20:39

It seems like such a highly-specialized word that it has no need to exist.

Mitch

it does look particularly...

Cerberus

But you're shaking and clenching your fists.

Mitch

outre

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Why?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus because I have a hard time imagining under what conditions I'd ever need to, in one word, say everything that's in that word.

Cerberus

20:40

If you had to learn the Greek accent.

Mitch

hm...sorry to give the seriousness impression. In seriousness, I don't doubt you that it is a commonly used word in poetry analaysis or something. It's new to me though.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Why not just say "circumflex on penult" or "penult circumflex"

Cerberus

I guess you could say that.

But that's how technical terms work.

Mitch

I can read through the lists of greek or greek neologisms for tropes over and overagain and I find a new word I don't remember from before.

Cerberus

Much of it is silliness.

Mitch

20:41

so greeky

Cerberus

And very annoying if you don't know it.

@Mitch I was kidding!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

is it important to distinguish this particular category of words from other words that have different accents? or the same accent, in a different spot? Can the same "word" be ultimate circumclex sometimes and penultimately other times?

Cerberus

I didn't really think you were upset or anything. I just liked to exaggerate everyone's fascination, if I may call it that.

Mitch

@Cerberus kidding about...fists or that the word is real?

it's all in fun.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 There are words for all the possible accent places.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

20:43

Sure, I know how technical jargon works. I just find it astonishing that this particular jargon was even needed, let alone established as a standard form.

Cerberus

The same word: depends—the same verb can have the accent in different places.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Yes, but there are what, 3 accents and 2-3 places for each accent?

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I find the same thing about most of the jargon I see, in any field.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus what about same word, different accent, different place?

Cerberus

And it is not an unreasonable position.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

20:44

anyway, how fortunate for that OP that you had that word at hand in your lexicon.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I don't know, it may exist, though it will be rare. But the same word with a different accent at the same position is not infrequent.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I don't need a lexicon for that, d'oh.

I know these words, because they are very logical.

> 157. Words are named according to their accent as follows:

Oxytone (acute on the ultima): θήρ, καλός, λελυκώς.

Paroxytone (acute on the penult): λύ̄ω, λείπω, λελυκότος.

Proparoxytone (acute on the antepenult): ἄνθρωπος, παιδεύομεν.

Perispomenon (circumflex on the ultima): γῆ, θεοῦ.

Properispomenon (circumflex on the penult): πρᾶξις, μοῦσα.

Barytone (when the ultima is unaccented, 158): μοῦσα, μήτηρ, πόλεμος.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus you don't need a lexicon? everyone has a lexicon, it's just what you have.

Mitch

@Cerberus what is it for towards the beginning of the word?

Also...circumflex...I didn't think that was for an accent.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I thought you meant a real lexicon.

@Mitch That doesn't happen.

Mitch

hey...that's a tilde not a circumflex!

Cerberus

20:47

Same thing, roughly.

Mitch

oh...this is all just for Greek.

Cerberus

The circumflexus can be written õ or ô.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch according to Cerb there is only greek

Mitch

I thought a circumflex was a 'hat'

we're speaking/writing really bad greek then.

Cerberus

English doesn't really have any accents anyway, so it is not primarily about English.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

20:48

Cerb's logical position of prescriptivism is that we should all just speak ancient greek; it was good enough for them, it's good enough now.

anyway, I must go. Congrats, Cerb, on having a lexicon filled with... interesting... words. :)

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Archaic Greek, preferably. Mustn't allow the modernity that was introduced with the Ionian alphabet in the 5th century BC, yuck.

'Fcharisto!

Or however you spell that.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Whom are you telling to fck a risto?

Cerberus

That's modern Greek. You as an owl should know.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Oh I do know.

There's even a football player named Charisteas.

Pictured: Charisteas pointing at the exact place where the accent should go.

Cerberus

He should know.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

20:57

Yeah, Rooney has a degree in linguistics, too.

And Robben is famous for his poetry.

0

Q: Mongoloid with reference to Down's syndrome

Could we use mongoloid with reference to Down's syndrome in informal English?

word-choice

Okay seriously. This guy is the second coming of Attila.

Cerberus

Rooney?

Mitch

I just loked up AttilaNYC...not many questions (2?) were all the rest deleted?

z7sg Ѫ

@Cerberus your comment about politicians is contemptible

MetaEd

21:13

@z7sgѪ Link. I love contemptible comments about politicians.

Cerberus

@z7sgѪ Why?

At least here, politicians are commonly ridiculed by educated and uneducated alike for their incomprehensible, (incorrectly) hyperformal language.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Mitch that's a different user.

The original Attila's account got deleted.

He's user5531 now.

z7sg Ѫ

it's just irrelevant. that is just a counterexample. the question has nothing to do with politicians.

Mitch

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 ELU doesn't show that user...on another SE?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Mitch well that's the whole point that you can't easily navigate to his stuff anymore. His deleted stuff even less so. But you can still google for user5531 site:english.stackexchange.com if you must.

z7sg Ѫ

21:22

it's perfectly normal to speak that way. it just sounds reserved, perhaps even polite for example to switch you with yourself. it's common spoken English. they would just confuse learners with stupid rules.

Cerberus

@z7sgѪ I just countered the counterexample.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Ccccccccounter breaker!

Cerberus

@z7sgѪ It is advised against by many people.

Including style guides.

That is the stuff askers are interested in.

Noöne claims that nobody every says "yourself" like that.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Wayne Rooney

Wayne Mark Rooney (born 24 October 1985) is an English footballer who plays as a striker for Premier League club Manchester United and the England national team. Rooney made his senior international debut in 2003 becoming the youngest player to represent England (a record later broken by Theo Walcott). He is England's youngest ever goalscorer. He played at UEFA Euro 2004 and scored four goals, briefly becoming the competition's youngest goalscorer. Rooney featured at the 2006 and 2010 World Cups and is widely regarded as his country's best player. He has won the England Player of the...

The "widely regarded as his country's best player" needs a footnote. In fact, all you must know about Rooney is that he played like God while at home, but sucked huge ass at the World Cup.

Kind of like Beckham, or any English player for that matter, really.

cornbread ninja

I'm Hugh Jass.

sorry, that just sort of slipped out

thumbnail unrelated

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

21:31

Hugh Jasses slip out all the time. They are Hugh, after all.

cornbread ninja

oh, there tis

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@cornbreadninja the thumbnail is very much related. It shows Rooney at the 2010 World Cup.

cornbread ninja

Wow, a three-way with prostitutes

Robusto

@Vitaly: What was the name of the Vernor Vinge book you were saying followed A Fire Upon the Deep and was perhaps even better than it? IIRC.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@cornbreadninja a warm up by Franck Ribéry's standards.

Cerberus

21:33

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 She looks nice.

Vitaly

Feb 2 '11 at 22:09, by Vitaly

Yes, Robusto, A Deepness in the Sky

cornbread ninja

A deepness in the

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Feb 2 '11 at 22:09, by Vitaly

Yes, Robusto, A Deepness in the Sky

Oh damn. Jinx.

I guess I deserve that for helping out wife with the laundry.

Well then I might as well go help her some more. BBL

cornbread ninja

don't get your knickers in a twist

or something

Vitaly

@Robusto But it's the other way round in terms of precedence: A Fire follows A Deepness.

Mitch

21:36

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I musted. I see what you mean. Anyway, entertaining until it's not.

Cerberus

> the Qeng Ho (pronounced Cheng Ho and named after the explorer Zheng He)

Yay!

Those books sound interesting.

Robusto

@Vitaly Thanks. Just getting a reading list for the hospital.

KitFox

@Robusto So you are having surgery?

Cerberus

Yeah, what's going on?

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…