English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mitch

00:30

@Cerberus Intuitively, FtL communication would seem way more plausible than FtL transportation, but I vaguely vaguely remember that they are somehow logically reducible to one another.

Cerberus

@Mitch I think so.

But maybe gravity is free?

Mitch

But even without some wild distortions of physics, I think the future will either be way way different than we can possibly imagine, or on the other extreme of boringly just like things are nowadays but with a few extra labor saving devices

@Cerberus ??

Cerberus

@Mitch Probably both.

Mitch

haha yes

Cerberus

@Mitch Maybe you can communicate using gravity, but not transport.

And maybe gravity is superlucal.

Mitch

00:33

oh. wiw. huh. aren't gravity waves also limited by light speed?

Cerberus

I'm not sure.

webstackoverload

hi all i am new bie here

how are u ?

:)

Mitch

we're discussing the possible difference between faster than light communication and faster than light transportation

It's pretty important

Cerberus

Hello.

Mitch

and the results of the discussion will determine the course of history

Cerberus

00:36

Gravitational wave

Gravitational waves are ripples in the curvature of spacetime that are generated by accelerated masses and propagate as waves outward from their source at the speed of light. They were first proposed by Henri Poincaré in 1905 and subsequently predicted in 1916 by Albert Einstein on the basis of his general theory of relativity. Gravitational waves transport energy as gravitational radiation, a form of radiant energy similar to electromagnetic radiation. Newton's law of universal gravitation, part of classical mechanics, does not provide for their existence, since that law is predicated on t...

Alas.

Turns out this science-fiction novel wasn't true!

> Newton's law of universal gravitation, part of classical mechanics, does not provide for their existence, since that law is predicated on the assumption that physical interactions propagate at infinite speed—showing one of the ways the methods of classical physics are unable to explain phenomena associated with relativity.

Quite interesting.

Mitch

well, that's only for objects that are accelerated from rest to the speed of light

that is what is impossible

maybe there's other ways of getting to FtL travel

Cerberus

I always wondered how the interaction of matter with matter could happen at an indeterminate speed (it never made sense to me).

@Mitch But not communication through gravitational waves.

Mitch

the Alcubierre drive supposedly does things 'differently', no acceleration past c

Alcubierre drive

The Alcubierre drive or Alcubierre warp drive (or Alcubierre metric, referring to metric tensor) is a speculative idea based on a solution of Einstein's field equations in general relativity as proposed by Mexican theoretical physicist Miguel Alcubierre, by which a spacecraft could achieve apparent faster-than-light travel if a configurable energy-density field lower than that of vacuum (that is, negative mass) could be created. Rather than exceeding the speed of light within a local reference frame, a spacecraft would traverse distances by contracting space in front of it and expanding space behind...

literally involves a warping of space

(Alcubierre was inspired by Star Trek in the naming)

note that this is a half-developed idea

Cerberus

Sounds practical.

Or you could just flatten space between you and your destination, not requiring any travelling at all.

Mitch

it's like the idea for a time travel device. You spin a cylinder at high speed...

but th catch is that the cylinder has to be infinitely long

Cerberus

00:46

Is that all?

Then just make it infinitely long.

Mitch

@Cerberus I think that's the vague wormhole idea

Cerberus

Good.

Mitch

Somehow I feel like if you just make it really long, just not infinite, that you'd get some time travel effect, just not as much

CowperKettle

Congratulations on the 201st Anniversary of Grasshopper and Cricket!

It was written exactly on this day, 30 December 1816

Mitch

Woo hoo!

Party!

Cerberus

01:15

@CowperKettle Congratulations!

I must admit I didn't know it.

@Mitch Or you just divide it by zero.

alhelal

02:36

"I guess now you can do it easily" is this sentence's grammer and punctuation is correct?

Cerberus

Yes.

Although there is no stop at the end.

Feeds

06:47

0

Q: Idiom for as flat as

Could someone please show me any word or phrase that could fit with as flat as _______ . Grammar is important.

Feeds

08:57

0

Q: What is the right word for an "instance" of a course?

I am trying to say that a course has been run two times and I have taught in it on both occasions, but I want to say it as "I taught in two ____s of the course." "Instances" sounds weird and too generic to me and I feel like I am having a mind-blank and there is already a proper word for this. If...

single-word-requests

Færd

10:14

@Mitch Nah. But I guess I did steal that from Jasper.

@tchrist Are you saying either me or Jasper talk too much? :)

Feeds

13:46

0

Q: A short word for: "the most incompatible"

In an essay, I am talking about a city that has harmonized seemingly incompatible cultures into a unique tradition. In the final sentence of this essay, I want to sum this idea up as shown in the lines below: This city's example shows how open-mindedness can shape even ____ contradictions int...

single-word-requests

Szabolcs

15:36

Is it, or has it ever been commonplace (and appropriate) to start a letter with "Dear,", no name included? Or is this some weird modern day Indian phenomenon?

In other words: is it unreasonable and intolerant of me to judge those negatively who send me letters like this ?

Mitch

15:56

@Szabolcs I have never seen that. It sounds like a typo, like they forgot to fill out the slot.

@Szabolcs That's an entirely different question. If everybody does it that way, then really, it's the way it should be done (in that very particular context). It would not work in the contexts I'm used to though.

But to judge them negatively, as though there is something disparaging about a person who does that kind of thing, that is a presumptuous kind of judgment.

Is it Indian? I don't know though.

Cerberus

16:23

@Szabolcs I have seen this before, though I don't remember in which context. I would judge it negatively / could be spam or a computer algorism.

Faheem Mitha

16:38

@Szabolcs weird modern day Indian phenomenon? Are you in India, then? Or just have Indian correspondents?

And how many different people have you seen writing this?

tchrist

@Szabolcs It'd creep me out.

@Cerberus @Mitch Do you yourself say nascent with /e/ or with /æ/ for its stressed vowel?

Szabolcs

@FaheemMitha Lots, often on forums. When there were identifiable names, they always seemed Indian. However, I also got messages like this to my personal address (in relation to open source software I released), also from Indians. It gave me a very negative impression. But perhaps this is very common and entirely appropriate in India, so I shouldn't have reacted like that.

Found this:

9

Q: Appropriate to start business email or letter with just "Dear,"?

Is it appropriate to start a business letter or email with just "Dear,"? I specifically refer to the case where there is no noun following "Dear,", so no "Dear All,", or "Dear Mr.,", or "Dear Colleagues,", ... (which is covered in other english.stackexchange.com questions) Or would "Dear," only ...

email business-language

tchrist

16:54

@Szabolcs If somebody addresses me with a lone, vocative Dear, I would respond in kind, using some similarly intimate pet name for them; perhaps darling or sweetie or my love or honey or babe or cutie. Anything that works out to grounds for charges of sexual harassment would work there.

It's not appropriate for someone who has neither changed your diaper nor wet your noodle to say to you.

In short, I would feel as you seem to.

Sugar.
Lover.
Doll.

Honeybunch.
Honeybuns.

O MY PRECIOUS

The US. Department of the Interior says that

> Terms of endearment, such as calling a co-worker “honey,” “dear,” “sweetheart,” or some similar expression

Faheem Mitha

@Szabolcs As far as I know, this isn't common and certainly isn't appropriate. Either in India or anywhere else. But Indians do a lot of weird stuff, including with the English language. They stretch it out on a Procrustean bed of pain and wait for the screams.

tchrist

Constitute prohibited sexual harassment in the workplace.

Faheem Mitha

And along the lines of tchrist's comments, perhaps you should respond with Darling or Honey? I quite like Honey, though I think that is an Americanism.

Though expect one surprised and confused Indian correspondence.

I think "Forgive them for they know not what they do", is probably apposite.

tchrist

You could use the French ma chérie if you wanted to sound both pretentious/sophisticated and also insulting of your addressee’s masculinity. :)

Faheem Mitha

Hi @tchrist. How's it going?

tchrist

17:05

Cold. Rocky. Icky. Did a red-eye flight from cold to cold, and slept not.

Faheem Mitha

@tchrist Nasty. Work or pleasure? Was Vegas involved?

tchrist

Vegas is seldom cold.

Family.

Faheem Mitha

@tchrist True.

tchrist

Yuletide gatherings.

Faheem Mitha

@tchrist Oh, right. Christmas get-togethers.

I hear those can be depressing.

tchrist

17:08

Still can't see straight, so tired of eye.

Faheem Mitha

Though I wouldn't know, personally.

tchrist

@FaheemMitha They can be. They can also be cherished.

Faheem Mitha

@tchrist Ah

tchrist

Speaking of ma chérie....

Faheem Mitha

@Szabolcs I take it you aren't personally in India.

tchrist

17:10

It shouldn't take eleven hours door-to-door for a fricking two-hour flight.

Snow at both ends didn't help this.

Mitch

17:22

@tchrist /'nej snt/

I've never heard /'næ .../ before

tchrist

The Brits appear to have the FATHER vowel there.

Mitch

@tchrist wow. prohibited. I mean, it can be annoying, but prohibited?

tchrist

doi.gov/pmb/eeo/Sexual-Harassment

Mitch

All those poor shopkeepers in Manchester put in prison for ending every utterance with 'luv'

tchrist

> Terms of endearment, such as calling a co-worker “honey,” “dear,” “sweetheart,” or some similar expression. (The effect is the primary issue rather than intent. Even if the person “means nothing to you” or you have “used the term for years” you should be aware that such expressions are inappropriate.)

Mitch

17:26

also everybody's mom, aunts, and grandmothers

send them away!

@tchrist Oh, Brits

Faheem Mitha

@tchrist You should get some rest. Maybe a hot bath.

tchrist

There's a group of them who can't tell their HAM vowels from their FATHER vowels.

I've always heard only HAM there.

@FaheemMitha Risk of passing out and drowning. :)

Of course for me ham is a diphthong. :)

Mitch

which one?

Cerberus

@tchrist Umm I think I would pronounce it /eɪ/?

Faheem Mitha

@tchrist I recommend a shower. :-)

Cerberus

17:29

I see the OED has /æ/ as well, as its only option!

How do you pronounce it?

tchrist

@Mitch [hæə̯m], [heə̯m]

Cerberus

I would not expect /e/.

tchrist

@Cerberus I have /æ/ of HAT not /e/ of HATE.

Mitch

@tchrist That sounds a little southern to me

Faheem Mitha

I believe once upon a time humans used to climb into a container filled with water. That wasn't very hygenic.

Mitch

17:30

@FaheemMitha like a swimming pool?

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Heh

Cerberus

@tchrist forvo.com/word/nascent/#en

So all this sounds strange to you?

tchrist

@Mitch Southern would not be a diphthong but rather with a glide to form a hiatus between two syllables: [ˈhæjəm]

Mitch

I think in the US most incoming water is treated with chlorine. sometimes if you fill a bathtub and let it sit for a while you can catch the brief whiff of a swimming pool

Cerberus

howjsay.com/…

tchrist

17:32

@Cerberus Yes.

Mitch

@tchrist yeah

Cerberus

Howjsay says /eɪ/ but "also American: /æ/".

@tchrist How peculiar!

Mitch

@Cerberus We don't talk to those kinds of Americans any more

Cerberus

Everybody has a conflicting opinion!

The OED, Tchrist, Howjsay.

How is this possible?

Mitch

it's a weird world

tchrist

17:33

Nascent rat sass has assonant rhyme throughout. :)

Cerberus

@tchrist What? Surely not? Why would you think so? I've never heard nor seen that anywhere.

Father.

And Mitch agrees with me and Forvo.

tchrist

@Cerberus Oh yes, it's the ODO sound clip: en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/nascent

Szabolcs

@FaheemMitha I'm not. If I were, I'd ask a local.

Mitch

@tchrist Those rodents are really starting to get uppity

Cerberus

@tchrist How strange!

tchrist

17:36

@Cerberus Hence my question.

Cerberus

But it's not father, but a short /a/.

Still strange.

tchrist

Say what?

That's FATHER.

Faheem Mitha

@Szabolcs I'm a local. Sort of.

tchrist

Oh hm.

Cerberus

Father is /aː/.

Mitch

17:36

@FaheemMitha How's the weather there?

tchrist

/a/ has nothing to do with /æ/.

Cerberus

Short /a/ is somewhat closer to /æ/, I should say.

It's short, for starters.

tchrist

I begin to think this is the whole source of the confusion.

Length isn't phonemic to my ear. Those are the same vowel.

You have to change to quality of the vowel to change the phoneme.

Cerberus

Well, length normally isn't phonemic to my ear either.

But one notices when studying a sound closely.

tchrist

/æ/ of HAM isn't just a briefer instance of /a/ from FATHER.

Faheem Mitha

17:38

@Mitch Cool. Relatively speaking.

tchrist

It's in a different place in your mouth.

Cerberus

But naaaaahhhsent would sound even stranger than short n/a/sent.

A shorter vowel is just less conspicuous in general.

tchrist

The sound clip isn't really sounding like /æ/ to me.

Cerberus

The Oxford one?

tchrist

yeah

Maybe that's how they say the HAM phoneme there. I don't know. Sounds more like they're aiming for FATHER to me.

Cerberus

17:40

It sounds most like /a/ to me, but it's very short, so I'd believe it if they were to say it was /æ/.

Educ

Hello, everyone

tchrist

@Cerberus exactly so

Cerberus

But I don't believe short /a/ is used much in Britain.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha I dream of cool. We have some frigid polar vortex standing over the US. Florida is barely spared

@Educ Hey! I'm taking a poll. How's the weather there?

tchrist

@Cerberus They should write /æ/ if they mean that vowel.

And write /a/ if they mean that one.

Cerberus

17:42

Mitch

I'm going to start saying /'nij snt/ just to open up the field

Cerberus

The OED, second edition.

tchrist

I think perhaps Americans may in general have a "higher" /æ/.

@Cerberus Thanks.

Mitch

Canadian raising?

Cerberus

So I was surprised to see even that in the OED.

tchrist

17:43

@Mitch No, æ-tensing.

Cerberus

For I had expected /eɪ/.

Sometimes, the OED is old fashioned.

I will consult Fowler's.

tchrist

/æ/ raising

In the sociolinguistics of the English language, /æ/ raising or short-a raising is a phenomenon in most American and many Canadian English accents, by which the "short a" vowel /æ/ ( listen), the North American TRAP/BATH vowel (found in such words as ash, bath, man, lamp, pal, rag, sack, trap, etc.), is pronounced with a raising of the tongue. Many forms of /æ/ raising are specifically /æ/ tensing: occurring only in certain words or environments, with a combination of greater raising, lengthening, and gliding than in other environments. The realization of this "tense" (as opposed to "lax") /æ/...

Mitch

@tchrist I don't know even what Canadian raising is

Educ

What is the difference between rowboat and camp boat ? What does mean "got in to row " is that means they take their paths in the lake (Im reading the Indian camp )

Mitch

I know what Canadian raisins is.

tchrist

17:44

@Mitch Means that tight and died have different phonetic diphthongs there.

Mitch

That's bad grammar, innit.

Educ

"AT THE LAKE SHORE THERE WAS AN·
other rowboat drawn up. The two Indians stood waiting .
Nick and his father got in the stem of the boat and the Indians shoved
it off and one of them got in to row. Uncle George sat in the stem of the
camp rowboat. The young Indian shoved the camp boat off and got in to
row Uncle George."

What is the difference between rowboat and camp boat ? What does mean "got in to row " is that means they take their paths in the lake (Im reading the Indian camp )

Cerberus

Tacet Fowler.

tchrist

@Educ That's a canoe not a rowboat. Indians use canoes.

:)

Mitch

@Educ a row boat is a small boat with oars that you row. it's a special kind of boat.

a camp boat is not special. it's just a boat that a camp might own. It's not a set phrase

@Educ Oh. that makes sense (and accords with what I just said)

a rowboat is a special kind of boat

the camp rowboat is the rowboat that belongs to the camp.

Cerberus

17:47

@Educ Got in = entered, got into the boat. To row = in order to row, because he was going to row.

tchrist

> The realization of this "tense" (as opposed to "lax") /æ/ varies from [æ̝ˑ] to [ɛə] to [eə] to [ɪə], and is greatly dependent on the speaker's particular dialect.

Mitch

the camp boat is that same boat, just I guess the author didn't feel like saying the longer 'camp rowboat' any more.

@Educ 'got in' = entered the rowboat

'got in to row' = entered the rowboat in order to start rowing, as opposed to maybe just sitting there and letting someone else row.

Now you have to answer my question.

Educ

thank you so what was it

tchrist

Three Men in a Boat.

Mitch

@tchrist you said nothing of the dog

@Educ How is the weather there?

Are you near the coast or up in the mountains?

Educ

17:51

no i live in casablanca near to beach

and it's cold

there is no rain

so it's too bad

tchrist

beaches are often like that

Mitch

@Educ dude...what is cold for you? like 10C?

tchrist

But at least it hasn't snowed.

Cerberus

@tchrist So what do you say? /eɪ/ as well?

tchrist

It's 10F here in Colorado (low) but –3F back on the other end in Wisconsin.

Educ

17:53

yes 10 it's cold because we don't have that machine which turn the athmosphere hot in house I forgot its name

so all the houses are not strong

Mitch

@tchrist Oh...so it's getting better

tchrist

@Cerberus I've only ever heard /æ/, whatever that works out to in my Great Lakes accent after raising.

Mitch

@Educ Oh, yeah, I can see how that's annoying. It's usually warm enough so that it is not worth getting some kind of heating, but then those few times of the year it's cold outside, it's also cold inside

Cerberus

@tchrist How odd!

But it would agree with Howjsay.

Educ

@Mitch exactly

Cerberus

17:55

Hmm my conversion script isn't working properly.

tchrist

@Cerberus Then again, we have [ˈɻɛnəˌsɑns] here.

Educ

tomorrow I'll send you picture of our weather

Mitch

the same but oposite of northern europe where they have good heating, but no air conditioning for those few days in summer when it gets up to 25C

Educ

Yes

your question was :
are you looking for more mathy things or more wordy writing about math (fewer equations) or just total technical math?

Mitch

@Cerberus what was it supposed to convert to?

tchrist

17:56

Maybe even [ˈɻɛnəˌsɒns]

Cerberus

@tchrist Hmm what am I supposed to find odd about that?

Educ

we see that in spoken english class

Mitch

@tchrist is that like Comic sans?

Cerberus

@Mitch Well, look at it: the diamonds exclude the minus sign.

Educ

we have to transcrib some words and some senrtences

tchrist

17:56

@Cerberus Brits seem to have /ri'ne..../

Educ

diphothongs 8

vowel 12

Mitch

Vowels win!

Cerberus

@tchrist Huh?

Maybe /ɪ/?

Educ

constants 26 I think

tchrist

@Mitch Diphthongs are vowels too.

@Cerberus Oh maybe.

[ɹɪˈneɪsɪns] perhaps?

It's um differenterish.

Educ

17:58

I tired to rewrite my note taking of spoken classs in latex by using tpa class

Cerberus

@tchrist Yes except the i.

tchrist

My font is too teeny.

Too tell.

Cerberus

I don't know about Renaissance, I've heard that word pronounced in so many ways.

tchrist

Or my eyes too tired.

@Cerberus Comme tu dis, Réne. :)

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…