English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Færd

12:01 AM

@Cerberus Unclear is different than flexible and encompassing.

Cerberus

Indeed.

Færd

That's what I think racism is.

Cerberus

One should ask oneself, what reasons do I think this person is discriminated against?

If one cannot think of a reason, or one doesn't know of the right term, one can use discrimination.

Færd

If its blood related it can probably be called racism.

Unless it's too small-scale.

Cerberus

If the reason seems to be ethnicity, which is implied if the group discriminated is called "Afghans", and the discrimination occurs outside Afghanistan, one could use the word xenophobia, or Afghanophobia, or ethnophobia, or ethnicism, or whatever seems to fit the case.

Færd

12:04 AM

OK. Those are clearer.

Cerberus

Actually, with ethnicity, anti-...ism is in common use. Anti-Americanism, anti-Semitism; so anti-Afghanism would be immediately clear.

@Færd So what is the reason?

Færd

I deleted that. It's a bit complicated.

Cerberus

It sounds a bit like xenophobia.

Although I don't know the context.

Xenophobia: the thing we don't like about x is really the fact that they're bad foreigners.

Færd

But some consider themselves the true sons of this and that king, and Afghans' blood are not pure and Arabs are a whole different ethnicity.

So they are better.

Not xenophobia exactly.

The strange thing is that when it comes to Westerners they tend to lose all assumption of supremacy.

Cerberus

Racism: the thing we don't like about them is the appearance of their bodies, not their clothes, because it's their bodies specifically that look wrong, because they're from the bad major division of mankind.

@Færd Why not xenophobia? It sounds like xenophobia?

Færd

12:09 AM

Afghans are certainly looked down upon because of their different looks.

Cerberus

Of course xenophobes don't hate all foreigners: they only hate the bad kinds of foreigners.

@Færd But is it the main reason, or are culture, origin, poverty, history more important? And do they feel that the looks are typical of a major division etc.?

You're right that ethnicism and bodily characteristics will be intertwined where possible.

Færd

Mmm historically speaking it has manifold reasons

Cerberus

But that doesn't mean the body itself is the main bad thing, nor yet the major division thing.

Færd

Maybe all those contribute to the present situation

But in the eyes of a typical discriminator this Afghan person is contemptible firstly because of their looks.

Cerberus

When people in Ethiopia attack Dutch companies and Dutch people, they will probably respond badly to seeing a white person nearby. Even so, it's not so much because they have ideas about the human races, but rather because they feel that the Dutch farmers have taken their land and treated their people badly. So I would rather call it xenophobia (even if it may be partly justified).

@Færd But looks very much include dress, as in hair, clothing, attributes, behaviour in public, manners.

At least it usually does.

Færd

12:15 AM

@Cerberus Yeah, but if it continues for long enough it can mutate into racism.

Cerberus

But I believe you that the bodily thing is an extra thingy there.

But it's still not a major division.

@Færd It's possible, but at present I don't think it would be very accurate to call their behaviour that.

Mitch

@Færd Less than that?

Cerberus

Now, a case can be made for "racism" against Jews by the Nazis, because they truly spoke of the Jewish "race"; they had different ideas about the major divisions, I believe.

But I think that's limited to fascists.

Mitch

@Cerberus I was using it entirely vaguely. could be looks could be dress, language, anything

Færd

@Cerberus People who boast about being the descendants of this and that and of the better genes are wont to consider foreigners as the inferior race.

Cerberus

12:17 AM

@Mitch Oh, I didn't see your using it. So that sounds a bit like discrimination.

Færd

@Mitch I mean even in absolute zero you have motion.

I should'be said just that.

Cerberus

@Færd It could be an inferior people.

Mitch

@Cerberus I characterize people by how good their food is

Cerberus

Wise.

Mitch

Sorry, English people

Cerberus

12:18 AM

So you hate the English for their food?

Mitch

But Dunkin Donuts people? I LOVE YOU!

Færd

@Cerberus Because they're not of our race.

Cerberus

So not only do they have bad food, but they're also hated by Mitch??

Mitch

@Cerberus Well, yeah. What do you hate them for> It's gotta be something

Cerberus

@Færd They're not of our people.

@Mitch For leaving the EU?

Færd

12:19 AM

@Cerberus Our people being the descendants of so and so.

But I'm not going to reduce the Afghans problems in Iran to racism.

I mentioned other things too.

Feeds

0

Q: Outdoor in the winter

Is there a word in any language for the feeling of longing coziness you get when you are outdoors during the winter and you look inside a house with the lights on?

single-word-requests

Færd

Way past my bedtime.

Mitch

@Cerberus that's one thing that americans have right, for anti-americanism it is the color of your passport

Færd

See you in my dreams.

Mitch

Wait... does the american passport have a different color for naturalized vs native born?

That would be bad

Cerberus

12:22 AM

@Færd A people is usually connected genetically. So ethnicism doesn't really precude bodily prejudice and ideas about a superior breed or whatever.

@Færd Oh, I didn't read the context, just meant to inject a little bit of commentary on what I happen to glance upon.

Bai!

@Mitch Uh, what?

Mitch

@Cerberus wait...what? The Netherlands tried to colonise Ethiopia?

Cerberus

No, but we have companies that grow crops there.

There were some riots this year or the previous.

Mitch

@Færd really? my physics is rusty then

tchrist

That should do it.

Mitch

@Cerberus Oh. That's no reason to hate them. Pity maybe. Hate is for the atrocities like steak and kidney pie

@Cerberus oh, so not a colonial thing, just modern globalism probably.

Cerberus

12:27 AM

@Mitch Yes, but perhaps they were unduly favoured by the government when they got the good land.

Or bribed, I don't know.

aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/…

@Mitch !! How dare you.

Or, actually, many Europeans are beginning to feel what it's like to have an EU without Britain, and they might like it.

Much less obstructionism.

Now maybe we can finally tackle the banks, tax evasion, etc.

Mitch

@Cerberus Really? So UK posed some substantive difficulties?

but couldn't you say similar things about France or Germany (as larger members)?

oh, aren't most of the banks in London?

Cerberus

@Mitch Not really!

Yes Minister explains the EEC (EU)

►

Mitch

I have no idea.

Except that neither France nor Germany have steak and kidney pie. So they are missing that black mark

tchrist

12:44 AM

@Mitch has?

Cerberus

Why the UK is in the EU

►

Mitch

@tchrist I say 'none are'

Cerberus

Actually, this one better sums up British obstructionism.

tchrist

@Mitch That's unrelated.

Winter Bash 2017: Greatest <strike>Hits</strike> Hats!

Abby T. Mars on December 12, 2017

The Northern Hemisphere temperatures are dropping and the Gregorian New Year draws close. Across Stack Overflow and the Stack Exchange network, thousands of avatars’ ears grow chilly. It’s the season to warm them up… with hats!

But not just any hats: in celebration of the 6th anniversary of Winter Bash¹, some of the most beloved hats from years past will make their triumphant returns to the Winter Bash stage for a repeat performance. We’ve switched up the triggers to ensure hours of hat-gatherin’ fun. (And if you poke around, you might find a few newcomers waiting in the wings to be discovered, too!) …

99

Q: How did 7 come to be an abbreviation for 'and' in Old English?

According to A History of the English Language: Revised Edition by Elly van Gelderen, p.53, in Old English the numeral 7 was used as an abbreviation for the word and: Abbreviations are frequently used, e.g. 7 stands for and … The same book includes various Old English passages with exampl...

orthography writing typography old-english symbols

If you've not upvoted that yet, you should.

99

A: Man-hour vs. person-hour? Is the former now considered politically incorrect?

Political correctness is in the ear of the beholder. Personally, until I am deemed to be of the huperson race, I will continue to use man hour, manpower, mankind, etc. And, to answer your question, don't use "person-hour" on a job-application. It sounds ridiculous (in my opinion). If you want...

9

A: "Awoken" vs. "awaked"

A Tale of Two Verbs: Strong awake/awoke vs. weak awaken/awakened The answer is fairly complicated at the detail level, but the short story is that there were two different verbs, one strong (call this the alpha version: awake, awoke, and sometimes awoken) and the other weak (call this the beta ...

That one seems the most deserving of my 17 needs-one-upvote posts if there are any takers.

To all of you whom I just gave a Secret Hat, you're welcome. :)

More candy dates here: data.stackexchange.com/english/query/299880/…

39

A: Is versionize a real word?

Whateverize is always a word Yes, of course versionize is a “real word” — and no disparaging remarks about its parentage should be made in polite company. This is because ‑ize is a productive suffix in English that’s used to produce a new verb from various nouns and adjectives. That means that...

Oh look! We're #2 behind SO!

winterbash2017.stackexchange.com/leaderboard

Feeds

1:42 AM

0

Q: Word for stupid and happy?

Is there an existing a word or phrase that refers to or describes a blissful yet idiotic person? Preferably a one word way to say "stupidly happy", but I'm open to idioms as well. For example, a word that describes the kind of person who would ask "Why don't homeless people just buy themselves a...

single-word-requests nouns adjectives idiom-requests

Artificial Stupidity

2:14 AM

The grammar in "Is there any other usage of papers than for writing?" is correct?

Please poke me if you make any comments. Thank you!

Cerberus

2:41 AM

@ArtificialStupidity Almost: the countable (c.q. plural) form papers is normally used for pieces of paper that have text already written on them, like documents.

You should use the indeterminate singular: usage of paper.

I'm assuming you mean blank paper, the writing material.

Artificial Stupidity

3:01 AM

@Cerberus: What about the following, which is the best?

A: Is there any other usage of paper than for writing?
B: Is there any usage of paper other than for writing?
C: Is there any other usage of paper besides for writing?
D: Is there any usage of paper besides for writing?

Thank you in advance.

Please poke me if you make any comment again.

Cerberus

3:25 AM

@ArtificialStupidity I would say they're all acceptable, but I'd pick A.

Artificial Stupidity

@Cerberus: Thank you!!!

Robusto

4:04 AM

A Ray of Hope in a Troubled Country.

I mean ... Ala-fucking-bama! Who knew?

Cerberus

4:22 AM

@Robusto Congratulations.

But what did you think? That the Republicans should remain in power forever?

The more radical the candidate, the more quickly he will lose support, unless he's really good.

And I think we can safely exclude that qualification here.

So the Republicans will almost certainly lose control of parliament in a couple of months.

And after Trump, the Republicans may be looking towards a very long period of unpopularity.

And perhaps black people and Latinos will have learned to go out and vote next time.

A costly lesson, but that's just the way the world goes round.

Educ

4:52 AM

@Mitch could you give me an example about personality development.

Educ

5:29 AM

please any help

i would like to improve these ideas :

the family has strong influnence on children's acadmec developpement the childreen don't developped following their parents influence and the influence is very strong. For example, the child loves painting but the mother says no no i bring a teacher of mathematics.

Most children have extra classes at home in mathematics in physics in sciences they never have extra classes in french or in english you know why ? this gives special type of development for the children they think of you scientific oriented students you are more successful than If you learn french very well.

you can use french to learn more. If you learn English is even better because you can be informed and trained you got information all the time and you got training in any field you want, It's available now everywhere but the influence of the family don't allow that.

Would you please correct me this : "
The family has strong influnence on children's acadmec developpement.
The children developed following their parents influence and its very strong.
For example, the child loves painting but the mother says no no i bring you a teacher of mathematics to learn about it it's more important than art."

Educ

6:01 AM

Please any help

Færd

8:48 AM

@Mitch Yeah, see, it's the same uncertainty principle: you can't pin down a particle's position and momentum at the same time, and the more you know about one you lose information about the other (ie, the standard deviation of a particle's position and its momentum can't shrink at the same time: σx.σp ≥ a constant).

Some are willing to go ahead and assume that this uncertainty is more than just a limit on our observation or knowledge, but rather an inherent property of the particle itself. But let's leave the philosophical discussion for later.

Now, if cooling down a chunk or blob of material to absolute zero meant sapping its particles of all their kinetic energy, you'd end up with particles sitting in exact positions. However, as per the uncertainty principle, this can't coexist with them having an exact momentum of zero as well, thereby contradicting the assumption that at absolute zero everything freezes in its place.

In fact some liquids, like helium, never freeze at all, and they become superfluids near absolute zero.

Zero-point energy

Zero-point energy (ZPE) or ground state energy is the lowest possible energy that a quantum mechanical system may have. Unlike in classical mechanics, quantum systems constantly fluctuate in their lowest energy state due to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. As well as atoms and molecules, the empty space of the vacuum has these properties. According to Quantum Field Theory the universe can be thought of not as isolated particles but continuous fluctuating fields: matter fields, whose quanta are fermions (i.e. leptons and quarks), and force fields, whose quanta are bosons (e.g. photons and gluons...

Feeds

0

Q: Partially melted snow on ground

Is there any word or neat expression for fallen snow on ground that doesn't hold shape anymore (because the temperature has risen, ...) and it's just this unpleasant Slurpee-like mass? This is often on roads or pavements where cars or feet move the snow, so it in addition becomes all grey-ish. I...

single-word-requests expressions

Færd

@Cerberus That doesn't contradict my statements, given the flexibility of my definition of race in humans.

@Cerberus As you do! And I always welcome your insightful commentaries.

.

I attend a monthly book club, and for this month we chose the Afghan-American novelist Khaled Hosseini's The Kite Runner.

I've about halved the book now, but it's already reshaping or completing the picture I had in my mind of this country.

The Kite Runner

The Kite Runner is the first novel by Afghan-American author Khaled Hosseini. Published in 2003 by Riverhead Books, it tells the story of Amir, a young boy from the Wazir Akbar Khan district of Kabul, whose closest friend is Hassan. The story is set against a backdrop of tumultuous events, from the fall of Afghanistan's monarchy through the Soviet military intervention, the exodus of refugees to Pakistan and the United States, and the rise of the Taliban regime. HosseinI has commented that he considers The Kite Runner to be a father–son story, emphasizing the familial aspects of the narrative,...

Mitch

1:27 PM

@Educ lots of examples by reading: Wikipedia entry on Personality Development

@Færd Oh wow I never had thought of that. So, close to absolute zero, there are large scale quantum effects?

Also, absolute zero is a bit like the speed of light but for quantum physics, a limit that theoretically just cannot be obtained?

Mitch

1:43 PM

@Cerberus "What appalling cynicism" !!

But was the UK really that obstructionist (before this whole idiotic Brexit thing)?

Cerberus

2:01 PM

@Mitch Well, it is of course an exaggeration, but they were nonetheless fairly obstructionist in various cases.

They demanded a financial exception, where they get back an extra five billion of their contribution to the EU.

And they got it.

They stalled and blocked banking reforms.

They were always trying to push neoliberal agenda.

Etc.

We've tried appeasement for so long, anything to keep the Brits in.

19 hours ago, by Cerberus

Step one: use a word processor or browser that will check your spelling. That should take care of a couple of sloppy errors like childreen.

@Færd Oh, how has it reshaped this picture?

I've only read his next novel.

The one about the life of a woman.

A Thousand Splendid Suns.

@Færd That's cool, I didn't know that. So we can't have solid helium? Not even under pressure?

Mitch

2:21 PM

@Cerberus So the UK did this much more than other EU countries? So they are literally and metaphorically insular?

Cerberus

@Mitch Much more than any other big country, to be sure.

They like to think they're quite insular.

Mitch

right, big country who can actually use their power to get their weird requests

Cerberus

Indeed.

Mitch

like the US

Cerberus

Although objections from small countries are taken quite seriously in the EU: usually, decisions are made by consensus.

So a small country could often block things.

But a small country is less likely to do so when it stands alone or has very few allies.

terdon

2:39 PM

@Cerberus What? That isn't even grammatical!

Cerberus

Oh?

Semantic satiation?

terdon

> Is there any other usage of paper than for writing?

You would at least need an other in there.

Or, OK. Maybe it isn't ungrammatical, but it certainly sounds off.

Compare to Is there any usage of paper other than for writing?

Or even Is there any other usage of paper than writing?

I think it's splitting the other than for that bothers me.

Mitch

@terdon I didn't notice

'other than' sounds better sure

terdon

No, I think I'm wrong and it isn't actually ungrammatical. Just really odd.

But then, usage is odd to begin with, I'd have gone for use.

Mitch

anything goes in language as long as it feels ok to the speaker.

Tonepoet

2:50 PM

@Mitch I vote to close English Language & Usage as Primarily Opinion Based. =P

Cerberus

@terdon It's certainly not how I would have phrased it.

And the meaning of usage is not clear.

Does it mean utility or utilisation?

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body: How to choose a good bluetooth stereo? by carry on english.SE

Matt E. Эллен

@Cerberus we've had two calls for this question to be given to philosophy.se, what do you think?

the OP doesn't think it should go

Cerberus

@terdon If it means utility, as use for would suggest, then I think the sentence isn't possible at all.

So it would have to mean utilisation.

terdon

@MattE.Эллен Why? I mean, sure there's a philosophical question there but the OP has made it very clear they're asking about the meaning of the English word thing.

Matt E. Эллен

2:54 PM

@terdon the argument is that the question is broader than English.se can contain

terdon

@Cerberus That makes even worse for me. "*Is there utilization"?

Is it being/has it been utilized I could live with.

Mitch

@terdon In my defense (am I one of the calls? Am I a man? Do i even exist?), the question is either philosophy or answered by a dictionary.

terdon

@MattE.Эллен I don't see why we would need to touch on the philosophy. Only on whether or not the word can be applied to any arbitrary, well, thing.

Cerberus

@MattE.Эллен I would say no.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch (yes you are)

Cerberus

2:56 PM

The question seems to be about ordinary use of the word in standard English, as Terdon says.

Matt E. Эллен

Thanks :D

terdon

> an object or entity not precisely designated or capable of being designated use this thing

Cerberus

@terdon I didn't mean using the actual word, but usage may have been intended in two different ways.

terdon

That's from M-W and isn't very clear, really.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен whew. If I didn't exist, that would ruin the whole morning.

Cerberus

2:57 PM

Is there any way it is useful? v. Is there any way it is used?

Mitch

I've made myself clear on how mornings should be skipped altogether already

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch be a bit of a disappointment all around

Cerberus

@MattE.Эллен I don't think it is, unless the OP requires a very high specificity.

Mitch

@terdon 'thing' exiss in many languages, with all the possible nuances that English has ('thing' doesn't have a translation in many other languages also so it is complicated)

Cerberus

How would you know that?

About the possible nuances of ding in Dutch.

I'm sure there are differences.

Mitch

3:00 PM

@Cerberus How does anyone know anything in another language? In one's own language? If you can deny knowledge of another language, you have to allow denial in your own. What does the word 'contumacious' mean? At some point it is a foreign word until it is not, no matter what your...

Cerberus

@MattE.Эллен Perhaps the OP's first sub-question is a little bit vague.

Mitch

uh oh...meeting

Cerberus

But a good answer will explain that.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch that's the problem with mornings

Cerberus

@Mitch Have fun.

I hope it's a lie-down meeting.

terdon

3:00 PM

@Mitch I'm not at all sure that the nuances are the same in all languages but, in any case, even if they are they are not that clear. I am not entirely sure if thing can be used for anything to be honest. I would tend towards yes, but I would be interested in seeing an analysis.

Feeds

3:22 PM

0

Q: How would you describe the sound of the horn of a car, bicycle, delivery van

I am to describe a busy road in a small town of Bangladesh where car, delivery van, rickshaw and bicycle jostle with pedestrians, and honk at will. If you have visited Delhi, especially Old Delhi near Jama Masjid, you must have had faced similar situation. Honk for cars, what for bicycle and rick...

single-word-requests phrase-requests expression-requests

Feeds

4:26 PM

0

Q: Is there a word describing a situation or name for someone that responds to a legitimate complaint with reasons why their complaint is not valid

For example, Q: The floor in my work area is slippery, can we do something about the material used? A: The floor can't be slippery, we paid good money for it and no one has complained about it before.

single-word-requests

Mitch

4:53 PM

@terdon There's a difference between meaning of concepts and meanings of words. The meanings of words are all the uses/connections/connotations/immediate implications of the utterance. The meanings of a concept or thought are distinct. We communicate thoughts to others with words and we may hear our inner voice as words but words are not thoughts and thoughts are not words.

One might also make a case for a distinction between thoughts and concepts.

terdon

@Mitch Yes (and therein lies an interesting discussion!) but I read that question as being about the meaning of words, not concepts and, as such, on topic.

Mitch

consider an ontology, which is an (arbitrary but informed) structuralization of concepts.

consider an upper ontology, about the highest level concepts.

terdon

@Mitch al of this is fascinating but doesn't really change what the limits of usage of the word thing are.

Mitch

- Space-Time – title/identifier, place, era/period, time-span, relationship to persistent items
- Events – title/identifier, beginning/ending of existence, participants (people, either individually or in groups), creation/modification of things (physical or conceptional), relationship to persistent items
- Material Things – title/identifier, place, the information object the material thing carries, part-of relationships, relationship to persistent items
- Immaterial Things

@terdon it helps show 1) the breadth of possibilities 2) that it is discussed in non-linguistic terms

of course, much of philosophy is (badly) motivated by language implications

But the ontology I gave has two that are 'things' and two that are not. That ontology says that events and space-time are not things

or you could have a simplistic ontology that says that only concepts labeled by nouns are things and everything else is ... not a thing.

but other onotologies have a single concept at the type called 'entity' and under reasonable interpretations everything in there could be considered a 'thing'

terdon

@Mitch Of course it can be discussed in non-linguistic terms. All I'm saying is that it is equally possible to frame the question in strictly lexigographic terms and only address whether thing can be applied to any thing.

Mitch

5:01 PM

'to run' is not obviously a thing, but 'running' is an (immaterial) thing

@terdon philosophically you just answered yourself using language everything is a thing, by worded statement

@terdon we have yet to do any discussion of 'thing' that is language specific.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…