@Tonepoet yeah, but people aren't going to call a pilot or a sailor "army". Soldiers are army. Infantry is army. I can see confusing Marines with groundpounders, but the other branches are distinct.

But, if I were Tolkien, I'd make it so that only Illuvatar and the beings made in His image could speak.

Orcs are descended from elves, I believe, so they can speak.

For elves were made in His image.

@Cerberus Yep, sorry, missed that.

And so were, apparently, trolls.

@Mitch Are they eukaryotic?

@KitZ.Fox the live long and prosper hand V-shaped thing is a prayer hand gesture. and the logicism of Vulcans seem pretty Talmudic. And ... well that's about it.

But eagles were clearly not made in His image.

But maybe balrogs were.

@Cerberus His image after an all-night bender, presumably.

@Mitch So...hand gestures for prayers are only for Jewish people? I think that's not true.

Also Nimoy said in interviews stuff that made it sound like a lot of Spock characteristics were intentionally Jewish.

But, if they were, then they could be nothing but Valar, Maiar, Humans, Elves, Dwarves, or their descendents.

@KitZ.Fox argh no! just that particular one.

@Cerberus Since they were maiar, they could presumably talk.

So the Nazgul were corrupted humans.

@Mitch What? Really? That's a Jewish hand gesture? So weird I never knew that.

@terdon Yes, for if they weren't maiar, then what else could they be?

@KitZ.Fox I'd say nobody calls a single soldier an army, except we have the phrase "one man army" and I don't think we can derive any definitive conclusions from that.

@KitZ.Fox Yeah, Nimoy brought it into ST, I think.

On the other hand, if Sauron was powerful enough to turn humans into Nazgûl, then perhaps Morgoth could turn elves into Balrogs?

@KitZ.Fox yeah for a blessing by a rabbi? or something.

Interesting. TIL.

> The Vulcan salute was devised by Leonard Nimoy, who portrayed the half-Vulcan character Mr. Spock on the original Star Trek television series. A 1968 New York Times interview described the salute or greeting gesture as a "double-fingered version of Churchill's victory sign". Nimoy said in that interview that he "decided that the Vulcans were a 'hand-oriented' people".[1]

@Tonepoet I suppose not.

> In his autobiography I Am Not Spock, Nimoy wrote that he based it on the Priestly Blessing performed by Jewish Kohanim with both hands, thumb to thumb in this same position, representing the Hebrew letter Shin (ש), which has three upward strokes similar to the position of the thumb and fingers in the salute.

Come to think of it, it'd probably just be better to avoid the word army if you really need to be specific about what you mean, and use the words Infantry and Military instead.

source of terdon's quote Vulcan Salute

Is Nazgûl singular or plural?

I think plural?

Plural, I think, yes. Or both.

Yeah, both.

Then again, defining a war as a time when two militaries come together to fight has a sort of oddness to it. I don't think military is a count noun, is it?

> 'Nazgûl' is both a singular and a plural term

@KitZ.Fox yeah, and you don't even call a single army member a troop, even though a bunch of them together are the troops

glyphweb.com/arda/n/nazgul.html

Ah, both, that explains our confusion.

@Tonepoet That's why we say "army" in non-technical/professional parlance, because "military" as a noun is a bit ugly.

@Mitch trooper

@Tonepoet I don't think you would define war like that. Or as 'when two armies come together to fight'. That sounds weird too.

Hmm, let's see some actual definitions of war then.

> Mary Ann had her bath in the kitchen on Monday night, because she liked to begin the week clean. Uncle William could not have his on Saturday, because he had a heavy day before him and he was always a little tired after a bath, so he had it on Friday. Mrs. Carey had hers on Thursday for the same reason. It looked as though Saturday were naturally indicated for Philip,

> but Mary Ann said she couldn’t keep the fire up on Saturday night: what with all the cooking on Sunday, having to make pastry and she didn’t know what all, she did not feel up to giving the boy his bath on Saturday night; and it was quite clear that he could not bath himself.

What's what all?

@Færd sort of like "and other unknown, unspecified things".

@KitZ.Fox oh

Quick question to native speakers, how negative is "vacuous"?

I'm not sure if you would see it outside of the phrase "don't know what all". Seems to be always in the negative.

@Helmar Pretty insulting.

@KitZ.Fox Thanks

Thought so

If they know what it means anyway.

@KitZ.Fox Is it commonly used? It's nowhere to be found in references.

I'm a little surprised that the word Army doesn't come up at all on The Free Dictionary's page for war.

@Færd It's dialect, kind of old-fashioned country.

@KitZ.Fox I see. Thanks.

@Helmar The least negative use I can think of for that is "The proof of that case is easy because it is vacuous. There are no elements of the set having that property to begin with."

@Tonepoet lots of "military" and "armed conflict" though.

I'm slightly mistaken, it comes up once or twice, albeit not in the major definitions.

@Mitch Thanks. I decided to err on the side of caution and nuked the comment :)

@Helmar everything depends on how it is used.

@Helmar I'd say it's about the same as empty-headed.

@Tonepoet I didn't see those, but the secondary definitions of 'army' support your assertion.

It was aimed at a first post ;)

More precisely at the source referenced in said post.

Interesting take on "caution".

Like "a large group of people".

@Færd Caution and nuking are not mutually exclusive ;)

Probably not, figuratively speaking.

@KitZ.Fox "In his autobiography I Am Not Spock, Nimoy wrote that he based it on the Priestly Blessing performed by Jewish Kohanim"

I see I'm way behind.

Has anybody mentioned the MACOs?

@KitZ.Fox Something else worth noting is the historical development of the word, which was originally a general word, but developed into an infantry specific word by the late 18th century, according to The Online Etymology Dictionary. The distinction is surely valid, and exists in the U.S. constitution, but it's not an exclusive meaning.

@MetaEd You just did.

But go on.

@Tonepoet Also interesting is how armada came to mean navy instead.

Well, what I'm thinking at the moment is that army and navy have been distinct for centuries. Air Force is new because planes. Marines can be mixed in with soldiers easily by people who don't know better.

I think generally people use army to refer to ground units and ground based combat. I don't think people use army to mean navy, nor do I think they would include navy as part of army.

I don't think they consciously do it, but I do think they use army as a synonym for military generally, and through that synonymy navy is incorporated into army.

In Star Trek: Enterprise, the MACOs are the proper military troops.

I think Enterprise predates Starfleet though, doesn't it?

@Tonepoet Enterprise is pre-UFP so if Starfleet is only UFP then yes.

The infantry is the first thing that comes to mind, unless otherwise is specified.

@Tonepoet Enterprise was a fleet vessel in the United Earth Starfleet.

@MetaEd Is United Earth Starfleet the same as just Starfleet?

@MetaEd and about every English speaking Navy in history ;)

United Earth Starfleet became a part of United Federation Of Planets Starfleet.

@KitZ.Fox Oh and Bejorans = Palestinians

and Cardassians = Kardashians

Mitch = Borg cube.

and the Borg = Amazon

Naturally.

@Cerberus haha. missed by a second

Who else would be a river?

hey! I'm no cube!

Oh, wow, I thought that was a reaction to my line.

You're square enough.

touché

I have corners

Indeed.

Do you have a naughty corner?

That's a bit forward

blushes

I've gotten that same reaction from other people here when make that joke. I didn't know it was a gendered thing.

My apologies.

It isn't!

You've never been praised in front of a group and blushed?

@Mitch So you're a sphere then?

@Ghalib guy? gal? gay? gangsta? groovy? gravy? government official? what? what does that mean?

I like g words.

@KitZ.Fox Government seems to be the closest match. I mean, it could be an elliptical form of G-man.

@Ghalib gal

almost as much a v words

now what?

what up, g?

ha! see? you are gangsta.

og

you frontin?

he's just a buster.

@Ghalib putting on a 'front', pretending you are something you aren't.

@KitZ.Fox Smugglers, scramblers, burglars, gamblers, pickpockets, peddlers, even panhandlers

faking being real.

@Ghalib fronting, but g-dropping

@Ghalib the opposite of keeping it real.

keeping it 100

yas

or should I say YASSS

@Ghalib Driving big cars, spending twenties and tens and you'll wanna grow up to be just like them.

you say I'm cool, heh, I'm no fool.

@Ghalib Twenty and ten dollar bills, more specifically.

@KitZ.Fox You're so smart, since kindergarten you acquired the knowledge and after 12th grade you went straight to college

@Ghalib rials, rupees, bolivars, whatever

big money makers

number book takers

You don't even know your english, your verb or noun

You're just a sucker MC you sad face clown

yeah, it's a whole lotta old school rap up in here right now.

@KitZ.Fox way old

@Ghalib they alternate between life sucks, you suck, and I'm great.

> Son do you know why I'm stopping you fo?

> Do I look like a mind reader sir, I don't know

@Ghalib I'm really good at copying and pasting lyrics from online is what

AAVE is non-rhotic.

for-> fo

and it ain't really gangsta or thug, it's just a variety that lots of people speak. TV ain't real life, like I keep trying to tell @Cerberus.

@Ghalib No I haven't seen it yet.

That sounds like Die Antwoord.

Except it's probably Geordie? Newcastle?

It sounds like a parody of the Navy Seal copy/paste

@Ghalib Reading over that again, it's not gangster at all. Not that I can tell. Gangsta can get pretty nasty.

I just got a gold tag badge. Does that mean I can close and reopen a post multiple times? Or just once per post?

@NVZ Doesn't that privilege only apply to duplicate closures?

Yea. Duplicate closures only.

Those with the exact tag.

Wait.. now I don't know what's going on. What is copypasta? That's not just copy-paste, it's a lot more right?

@NVZ for a tag? I think it means you can hammer close things with that tag.

I dont know if you can just willy-nilly close then open then close again as you feel

@Ghalib googling, no, I don't think it is so limited to threats

@Mitch Speaking of copypasta, I got the gold hammer mainly by copypasting SWR definitions from dictionaries.

@NVZ Blech...

@Tonepoet Truth. Bitter.

@Mitch So...?

@Ghalib the little I get from UD is anything that is copy-pasted to look clever, like it is your own.

Copypasta is like copypresto.

Is that like copyspresso?

copy-paste without actually really looking at it or considering whether it is correct.

copy-paste without actually really looking at it or considering whether it is correct.

=P

yeah like that

@Tonepoet I feel like I've seen that somewhere before

not to be confused with copyprego, which some people inexplicably like on their copypasta.

@Ghalib You should go to more copytalian restaurants

@Ghalib oh, I just made it up.

@Ghalib Prego is a brand of pasta sauce.

Wow. Didn't know the actual page contents would show up here.

@NVZ hm...thanks. I recognize that but never realized it was a thing.

It's crappy pasta sauce in a jar in the US.

@NVZ it's autocopypasta

@NVZ Wikipedia and wikitionary both one-box, I think.

@KitZ.Fox for crappypasta

Well, they do one-box.

So do a few other things.

@KitZ.Fox unfortunately not etymonline

when the bot was active, we one-boxed a couple other things too, I think.

for technical reasons

which are obscure to me

@Mitch I can work around that easily...

something in the http header?

probably no workable api?

so it would be blocked by cross-site scripting stuff?

Or at least, I think I can...

Let me try another dictionary.. hold on

dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/old-chestnut

Oh. So no preview there.

it's just wikitionary

I see

Well, that absorbs

@KitZ.Fox I'm speaking beyond my technical limits. I have no idea.

Hmm, not quite.

One-boxing is built into the chat engine and actually converts the link to content and html markup, so it is something that is custom per site.

@Tonepoet sure an image can work for anything. one-boxing is...

Screenshots don't count.

what KZF just said

That's not actually the point.

one box to rule them all

uh...yes it is the point.

I don't think you can insert markup.

I don't think I could even with the chatbot, which intercepted messages.

@Mitch Do you even know how I got that screenshot?

Thunder only happens when it's raining

I didn't take a screenshot. It was autogenerated by archive.is just now.

Players only love you when they're playin

When my eldest was two, we got him to sleep by driving around in the car listening to Fleetwood Mac.

scans through Dead Kennedy's lyrics ... ... ... nope nothing family appropriate there

Hey, the guy who does Etymonline mentions EL&U in his credits. How nice!

@KitZ.Fox Hm... I vaguely remember listening to 'News from Neptune' and ... some science show.

@KitZ.Fox Where?

wait...Sesame Street has some really good covers

Ah, it's not exactly a credit, so much as a link.

how is my home page?

are those your fonts?

@Tonepoet which dubs ELU a message board :P

@Helmar It's hard to disqualify it as that, since questions and answers are sent via messages. XP

Used an extension called Stylish on Chrome. Tinkered with CSS, which I actually know nothing about.

True

I really got bored with Georgia typeface

@Helmar "kakistocratic crack-pottery"

@Mitch "smug smacked-assery"

@KitZ.Fox It's Libre Baskerville from Google fonts.

It's nice.

@KitZ.Fox that wasn't that long ago.

Seven years or so.

I've noticed news stations using Pink Floyd as instrumental intro-outro music

I am so tired of Pink Floyd.

@Helmar :)

I'm not sure what it means but it doesn't sound good

@KitZ.Fox alos elevator muzak has covers of ... was that ... Ozzy Ozbourne?

I guess someone who spends so much time with etymology just wanted to create some word roots as well. So they can at some point in time be self-referencing themselves as first occurrence :D

@Helmar haha. Example: unsycable. Find out who defined it.

@NVZ I guess I'm going with urban dictionary on that one

So who uses this apart from you?

@Helmar nobody really. It was a meme in my language at that time, around 2011.

@KitZ.Fox Kind of hit the wall have you?

@MetaEd <slow clap>

@KitZ.Fox Sorry. 19 years of practice with Dad Jokes.

You are to be commended.

@MetaEd You're stopping there?

@MetaEd More likely a momentary lapse of reason.

So ... this is what EL&U is reduced to?

My my my ... and apparently it hit the multi-collider ...

The amount of effort put into that answer is [word].

Maybe I should do another SWR...

@tchrist - What's up with "Answers should be in mostly your own words, not just copypasta." Is there precedent for that statement or is there just sort of an unspoken consensus?

@Robusto It's the Rosetta Ball.

@Mazura english.stackexchange.com/help/referencing