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Færd
Færd
05:00
@MattE.Эллен I wasn't nearly accurate enough last night, so you might as well forget all about our magnetic conversation.
I just felt compelled to say this.
 
3 hours later…
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
07:36
Teehee, physicists
 
1 hour later…
SBM
SBM
08:45
@Tonepoet Pardon?
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
@SBM I was discussing the order of links in a post we were corroborating upon.
SBM
SBM
Oops can't remember which post, sorry @Tonepoet
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
@SBM This one.
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
09:32
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Is "randomly" more appropriate than "haphazardly" to describe an accounting process? by user673192 on english.SE
 
2 hours later…
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
11:11
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer, link at end of answer: Alternative to saying "This may be a dumb question, but..." by AXA on english.SE
 
2 hours later…
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
13:27
@Færd ok, no worries. I think I got what you meant, though
how to know if you've spelt something correctly
 
2 hours later…
tchrist
tchrist
15:27
Come on, folks: the bat signal's just a wee cribbage shy of utter grossness.
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
15:46
> A client called today looking for my coworker who is out for a family emergency.

Client: Can you give me her email?

Me: Sure! It’s ‘L,’ ‘M’…

Client: Ok ‘O,’ ‘M’?

Me: No, ‘L,’ ‘M.’

Client: Right, ‘O,’ ‘M.’

Me: No, no, ‘L’ as in Lemon.

Client: ‘O’ like Oliver?

Me: ‘L‘ like for Lemon.

Client: ‘O’ ‘L’ ‘M.’

Me: No, there’s no ‘O.’

Client: Right, ‘O’ ‘L’ ‘M.’

This went on for almost 5 minutes.
tchrist
tchrist
16:06
To you this happened?
terdon
terdon
16:53
Wow, I just found out that I pronounce t like an r in the phrase let it be. I had no idea!
I can do, anyway. Weird.
 
3 hours later…
tchrist
tchrist
20:21
@terdon It’s essentially the same sound as in Spanish pero.
I think I have a very slight difference between those, but it’s very hard to describe and probably impossible to hear. My tongue isn’t in quite the same position laterally, although the tip is probably hitting at the same point.
Mitch
Mitch
20:37
@terdon Gerroff my land!
@Færd wow, I really left a lot out of that. I meant that the solar wind is really not powerful enough to push a turbine fast enough to create electricity to power an MRI machine (to 1 T).
@Færd or rather I'm saying that's what other people say.
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
21:27
Hmm, I wonder if this video about the "General American Accent" is a legitimate challenge, or just trying to appeal to ignorance to prove a point. I obviously wouldn't know how to tell the difference, although I am suspicious of the sound-record quality. XP
terdon
terdon
21:59
@tchrist I know! But I had absolutely no idea. I've been saying it that way for years, presumably, without ever noticing it. When I read the question I linked to before, my first reaction was "what's he on about, nobody says t like r". I then just repeated the phrase out loud and damned if I don't say it that way myself!
tchrist
tchrist
22:31
here kiri kiri kiri
terdon
terdon
Stop it!
DAMMIT! That's what I say, all right.
tchrist
tchrist
I know. They never teach this.
terdon
terdon
But only upon repetition. Not if I just say kitty.
tchrist
tchrist
Exactly.
terdon
terdon
I think.
That's so weird though. How you can do this all your life and never notice.
tchrist
tchrist
22:37
It depends on the speed.
terdon
terdon
What's it called? Is that the "flapped r" or something that was mentioned?
tchrist
tchrist
Yes.
There is no difference between a flapped r/t/d
It's the coronal flap that counts.
Alveolar for us.
Many native Minnesotans neither flap nor voice their T in that word, something that is hard for me to emulate without a lot of effort.
They aren't mini-sodans.
terdon
terdon
This is still blowing my mind. I just realized that, unless paying attention, I'll pronounce ladder and latter the same way. The a might be a little different, but not the middle consonant. Not if speaking quickly.
tchrist
tchrist
22:56
But you don't pronounce rider and writer the same way, even though both have the same flap.
Because, and this is very strange, things you don't say influence those you do.
terdon
terdon
No. rider is always more, um, vocal? I voice it rather than just breathe it.
That's the w, huh?
Ah, no, the t/d is quite different too.
tchrist
tchrist
No. It's the /t/ that you don't say. So the diphthong in the first syllable gets "Canadian raising" of writer but not in rider, but both are the same flap.
7
A: Can you hear the difference between 'Writer' and 'Rider'? Why?

tchristIt turns out that writer and rider are not “indistinguishable” in much of the United States. The difference is that although both rider and writer have an alveolar flap in their middles, writer is [ˈɹʌɪɾɚ] with a raised and somewhat shortened diphthong, whereas rider is simply [ˈɹaɪɾɚ]. The...

-1
A: The pronunciation of "try to" vs. "tried to"

tchristFor most North Americans, excepting only the Deep South, Canadian Raising applies to try to [ˈt͡ʂɻʷʌɪɾə] — but not to tried to, which is just the un-raised form [ˈt͡ʂɻʷaɪɾə]. This is the same thing that happens between writer and rider, despite both being flaps; the one that originally had a /t/...

terdon
terdon
But I also change the first letter, oddly enough.
tchrist
tchrist
Perhaps.
The diphthong in rider is "longer" than the one in writer, which is higher.
And shorter.
The original unvoiced /t/ of writer shortens its earlier diphthong and raises it, even though /t/ becomes the flap [ɾ] there exactly as in rider.
So the sound you aren't saying is influencing the ones you are. This proves that phonemes are mental constructs.
Not physical ones.
Plato has phonemes, the rest of us merely phonetics.
:)
The /d/ of rider doesn’t change the earlier diphthong.
So we have [ˈɹʌɪɾɚ] and [ˈɹaɪɾɚ], or a rounded [ˈɻʷaɪɾɚ] as you've pointed out.
And yes, this is all a bit mind-blowing when you first get it pointed out to you.

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