Whatever you say, Peregrine.

@Mitch there are the phrases in the original language:

@MartinAJ You translated them. Instead can you give them in the original language.

@Mitch Actually I'm trying to find a sentence which is proper to telling to a hajji when he has come back to its city.

You want to tell them in English?

yes :-)

Can you give the original?

I can fix the ones you've given but I have no idea if the fix will correspond correctly to the original.

@Mitch look, all I need is a religious version of this sentence: "how was your travel?"

Why?

That's confusing. Your two sentences don't seem to be asking about how well their trip was. Are you asking for three sentences?

Can you give the original two (or three) sentences you want translated?

:-)

I guess nobody cannot help me .. because you don't know about neither our customs nor our religion

thank you anyway for your attention

what about a religious travel?

@MartinAJ Sure we can help you, but you haven't told us which customs or religion or language you're starting from.

What language are you starting from?

@Mitch this means what's my native?

What's a native?

Oh.

@tchrist mother's language

What's you native language, yes.

Persian

Good. Now what is the religion? Islam?

yes

And so it's a hajj.

How do you write it in Persian? (the thing you want to say in English)

I need some English sentence which are proper to say to a haji

@Mitch first of all, I have to ask, do you know where is Mecca?

I'm guessing that in Persian, you say some very specific things.

@Mitch Mecca is a religious place .. that's God's home (in Islam)

@MartinAJ Sure, it is in Saudi Arabia just south of Medina

right .. now when a person goes Mecca, we call it "hajji"

@MartinAJ You can assume I know a lot about Islam, except for the things you say when someone returns from the hajj

ok, what a hajji is doing when he is at Mecca ?

@Mitch :-)

@MartinAJ hajji is the person who has gone to Mecca. The hajj is the actual trip there

@Mitch what do you mean "actual trip" ?

@MartinAJ In English, that person is going on a pilgrimage to Mecca. But it is very common (maybe more common) in English to say they went on a hajj.

ah I see

@MartinAJ the visit. the process of travelling. Not the person. A pilgrim (the person) goes on a plgrimage (a religious trip).

But don't think you have enough. In English you are a pilgrim only when you're on the trip. Afterwards you don't call them a pilgrim.

It may be more appropriate to call them with the Muslim terms, even in English.

anyway, a Muslim talk to the God when he is at Mecca, and he pray for himself and other people and everything else. now I'm looking for a sentence something similar this: "I hope the God accepts your pray"

Can you write the Persian sentences you say -in Persian-?

@Mitch by Persian alphabet?

And in Persian script? (not in Roman letters)

yes

ok

زیارت قبول

التماس دعا

ان شالله که خداتوفیق بده مجددا بری به مکه

(working on it)

look, I guess I'm bothering you .. never mind buddy ..

I don't think those are the full sentences.

@MartinAJ No, quite the contrary, I'm very interested in it. I've spent time with you so far. I don't want to have wasted my time by stopping now.

@MartinAJ Is that the full sentence you say?

Also, are you saying these things after they have returned or before they go?

no they aren't full sentences .. actually they are idioms .. here is the full sentence of them:

- امیدوارم که خداوند زیارت شما را قبول کند

Oh good, thanks.

- امیدوارم که خدا شما را بخشیده باشد

- ان شالله که این سفر باعث شده باشد که به خدا نزدیکتر شده باشید

Nice

I don't know how those are useful for you :-)

do you know Persian?

Do you say these things when they have just returned?

Or do you tell them 'please pray for me just before they leave for the hajj'?

@Mitch almost yes .. or something similar for when they will go ...

@Mitch yes yes .. the later part of your sentence is true

@MartinAJ I know the barest minimum of Persian (like to pick out the sounds from the writing very very slowly and wrong)

good for you then :-)

@MartinAJ SO I'm confused. Which one is it? Before or after?

emm .. look, they can be usable both for "Before" and "After" by changing them a bit: for example:

Or

What is hajj in Persian? Is it pronounced something like 'zeelrat'?

@Mitch "hajj" is a task which every muslim should do that. It is visiting God's house

and no, I never heard "zeelrat" by now

@MartinAJ I understand the culture. I'm asking about the pronunciation. is it 'like 'zeelrat'?

OK. How do you pronounce 'زیارت'?

zeyarat

OK, I was close. I told you I make lots of mistakes.

You don't use the arabic word 'hajj' in Persian?

:-) since you don't know Persian, understanding such things is perfect .. bravo

@Mitch we do .. hajj is a common word also in Persian

but there is a small different between "hajj" and "ziyarat"

But you don't use 'hajj' in that sentence that mentions 'zeyarat'?

Oh. what's the difference?

- امیدوارم که خداوند زیارت شما را قبول کند = May God accept your pilgrimage

always say 'God' in English. 'the God' is a grammatical/spelling error. If you refer to gods of say hinduism, you might say 'a god' or 'the god' (lower case 'g'). But the Abrahamic god (Jewish/Christian/Islam) you would say just 'God'.

@Mitch I don't know how google has translated "امیدوارم" to "May"

@Mitch ah ok ..

Actually, in Islamic contexts, 'Allah' is probably more likely in English.

yes yes .. well call the God, Allah

what's your native @Mitch ?

But in Persian, khoda, correct?

@Mitch exactly ... "khoda" is more common in Persian, but "Allah" is also familiar for us

@MartinAJ I am from the US

@MartinAJ that's in Karbala, correct?

@Mitch exactly .. Karbala is the tomb of Imam hussain

@MartinAJ That's the reason I'm asking lots of questions because translations are usually never word for word.

So if it's related to God, it will be "Hajj", but if it's related to any other religious places, it will be "ziyarat"

I understand now

@Mitch yeah I know

@Mitch good .. let me ask, what's your religion?

So 'May' like that can be a replacement for 'I hope that'

If my question is bad in your culture, don't answer ..

They are not the same, but the same situation allows for it.

@Mitch agreed ..

@Mitch correct

@Mitch Is it one kind of Christian ?

'May' is not common in normal speech but works really well for greetings/farewells/wishes "May the road rise up to meet you" (an Irish toast, google for it)

@MartinAJ Yes.

@Mitch ah .. good to know ..

Very roughly Christianity divides into three: Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Protestant

And an aside question, since you're from US, do you know why your country always wants to kill all of us? :-)

But back to that sentence.

I explained 'May'

I explained 'God'

ok go on ..

'accept' in that sentence just sounds strange to my ears.

@Mitch why? it seems correct to me

I am a native speaker of English, and I'm telling you my understanding of the sentence is off. Let me explain further.

suppose you are God, I come to your place and ask you to accept my apologize.

ah ok

Why is 'God' the one to accept your pilgrimage? He's surely will be the one to accept your prayers, but accepting a trip just sounds strange.

Right, God would accept apologies or absolve you of your sins, because that's about your state.

But a trip? there's nothing to accept. You went on a trip, that's all.

SUre, you came to a holy place to have Allah accept your prayers, but the trip doesn't feel like something to be accepted.

Oh I understand what's the problem .. you assume hajj is a trip .. we don't assume it like that. it's one part of our praying kinda

I'm saying a lot that sounds like 'accept' is wrong, but frankly that's the only good translation of the word.

and now I think you are right .. maybe there should be a better word rather than "accept"

@MartinAJ Does allow work?

An alternative that would sound 'idiomatic' would be 'May God receive you' (this sounds good), but it leaves out the word for pilgrimage. Also, there's culture to be aware of and in English it may very well be that people say it this way: 'May God accept your pilgrimage'

@Mitch receive is much better to me

what? I don't understand

@Tonepoet He's not a native speaker so he can't be sure.

@Mitch what was his point? Can you please tell me?

@MartinAJ Even though I said translation is usually never one-to-one, you also usually want to try to preserve as much as possible.

@Mitch I'm aware. You're also here Mr. Use the Reply Function properly man. =P

@MartinAJ He was asking you if 'allow' would sound good instead of 'accept', and I was telling him that you are not really the best one to ask since English is not your strength (but Persian is).

@Mitch oh ... I see

well I think 'May God receive you' is the best one @Tonepoet

I see.

@MartinAJ So unless I hear from a Muslim who speaks English and says otherwise, I think ''May God accept your pilgrimage' is probably best.

Now for امیدوارم که خدا شما را بخشیده باشد

"work" is a nice word .. I thought is means 'job's place", but now I understand it also means "is it good?"

'May God forgive you'

That works perfectly well in English

Not much controversial there.

@MartinAJ Right, like a machine works.

@Mitch this is good .. I will use it :-)

Is this sentence correct?

> I will use it from now until ever

That exact sentence is used in English for Christian things.

A similar statement 'May God forgive you your sins'

@Mitch ah - I see

@MartinAJ "I will use it from now on"

@Mitch oh .. great

what's your job @Mitch ? An English teacher ?

It is grammatical to say "I will use it forever" but that sounds like you assume that you will live forever, so it sounds funny so don't use it.

@MartinAJ computers

@MartinAJ I've been a teacher

@Mitch ok ..

@Mitch oh really?? well I'm a programmer too

@Mitch how old are you?

Last one: ان شالله که این سفر باعث شده باشد که به خدا نزدیکتر شده باشید

ok

"God willing that this trip brings you closer to God"

emm, are you sure "bring" is fine?

It took me a while (because I'm just not used to reading persian script) that the first word is 'inshallah'.That is usually translated to 'God willing' but means 'May God will it to be so' or 'I hope that God wills it to be so'. But you just say 'God willing' in English

I see

Culturally, people in English will say 'God willing' for things like 'I hope you get better from your illness, God willing'

@MartinAJ Good point.

this is a great point .. "inshallah" is a really usable for me when I'm talking Persian .. so I will use "God willing" for my English friends from now on

It does not appear literally in the persian

but using it makes the whole sentence sound better in English.

@Mitch I see

The persian says you're making a trip, to be closer to God. And you sort of turn things around metaphorically and say that the trip itself is doing something to you (which is weird in English) but sounds just fine if you say 'the trip brings you'

That is what is called 'taking liberties' (being a little free, not limiting to word for word translation

@MartinAJ Yes, that would be appropriate. Educated English speakers should be aware of the word 'Inshallah' though and understand it vaguely

@MartinAJ Older :)

I have kids.

@Mitch I get it totally :-)

@Mitch oh .. sweet .. what language do you use when you're talking to your kids? English?

also, as a programmer you may have noticed I have this annoying habit of not closing off my parentheses.

I must be too used to a compiler helping me.

@MartinAJ yes

@Mitch well that's not annoying .. it is good in my opinion :-)

I took French as a foreign language in high school, but my kids take Spanish. Spanish is much more useful in the US.

@MartinAJ I said 'not closing off parens'. Like failing to put end quotes. It's a syntax error in programing as well as English.

@Mitch I think English is enough for everything .. I always try to learn it, but I really cannot .. :-(

@Mitch yeah I know :-)

So I hope I helped you with those phrases. It helps me learn about Persian as well.

@Mitch yes this conversion tonight was very helpful for me. thank you.

I'll check with someone Muslim here who speaks English to see what they really say to make sure.

@Mitch very good

@MartinAJ Are you in school right now?

as in this week?

Or are you working?

my college has been ended .. I'm working now

Nice

BUt you're staying up very late... it must be around 2am there?

@Mitch ha ha ha .. you know everything .. I'm impressed ..

yes it's too late here

almost 03:00 am

but my work begins at 05:00 pm until 10:pm

I guessed (with a little foreknowledge, I've worked with people in India, and I feel like you must be an hour or two behind them). I'm on the East Coast US

@MartinAJ Oh OK. So you can sleep in. Nice.

@Mitch the word of "in" is redundant? or a typo? or it is correct?

I have to go in a moment, but it was nice talking with you. I'm not always available but if I am feel free to talk.

I mean what's the meaning of "sleep in"?

@Mitch yeah ... nice to meet you too. have a great time. see you soon

@MartinAJ It's not redundant. But without it, it means something similar but not identical.

@Mitch ah ok :-)

'sleeping in' means you didn't have to wake up right away in the morning, you could be lazy and even if you're rested, you feel like you can stay in bed a little longer.

Longer than those who have to get up at 6 or 7 am.

oh .. I see

OK. I gotta run. Talk to you sometime soon.

@Demisemihemidemisemiquaver :)

@Demisemihemidemisemiquaver Those who think otherwise are crazy.

:)