English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Lawrence

12:02 AM

@AndrewLeach Thanks, consider this request closed.

Tonepoet

12:20 AM

@Lawrence The drama continued...

Lawrence

@JasperLoy By the way, thank you for showing concern. I appreciate it. :)

@Tonepoet I thought it had reached its conclusion. As we have a mod presenting an interpretation of the site charter, it's something I'll leave to the current mods to discuss.

Tonepoet

@Lawrence Where is that happening?

Lawrence

@Tonepoet Where's what happening?

tchrist

@Tonepoet I misclicked.

yesterday, by tchrist

Please remind me to correct an injustice.

As the record shows.

Tonepoet

12:35 AM

@tchrist Huh?

tchrist

I didn't mean to close that question.

Tonepoet

Oh.

tchrist

And since I was the fifth voter, I couldn't retract it.

Tonepoet

Would you have voted to reopen it otherwise?

I'm assuming you did.

tchrist

I would have. I hadn't seen it on the reopen list yet.

If you look at the timing of my post and the closure, you'll see that my "oops" moment was immediate.

I'm glad it was fixed overnight. I had been going to rally support once I found active chatters, but that has proved unnecessary.

Tonepoet

12:44 AM

Hmm, interesting. We're talking about the same question right? The quotation lookup?

tchrist

Yes.

Tonepoet

@tchrist Hmm, I'll probably ask you more about this later since I'm curious about it. Right now I have to make some food though.

tchrist

k

Tonepoet

1:09 AM

Okay @tchrist Do you think the question actually topical or would that decision be an act of leniency? If it is topical, what category of question is it?

Mitch

@Shafizadeh Do you know the name of the song? or the group that sings it? Then you can look up the lyrics.

Note that singers often 'take liberties with' (treat freely) words when singing. Sometimes it is hard to following a song a long with the lyrics because the singer will pronounce vowels strangely or put the accent in a different place or slur through several words..

Tonepoet

1:24 AM

@Mitch By transcribing the first thirteen seconds and doing a google search, I've determined that it's Inconsolable by the Backstreet Boys.

They do take liberties with the word "possibilities" and pronounce it pos-suh-bilities, which isn't so uncommon, but is also not proper, strictly speaking.

tchrist

@Tonepoet It's Socrates.

I was ashamed.

You may call that leniency if you wish.

Or simply respect.

Tonepoet

@tchrist I'm presuming you don't mean it's a philosophy question, but are suggesting it's an idiom that traces back to Socrates?

tchrist

Nothing more need be said.

Cerberus

@Tonepoet Hmm perhaps someone has deleted the comments.

~~Lexi~~ is not a prefix.

?Lexeme is either a malformation or something that I can't analyse.

The proper prefix to use is in most cases lexic(o)-.

Tonepoet

I think the distinction is based upon resemblance to the phoneme etymon than the lexico- one.

Phoneme is another strange word. Just recently I learned it was pronounced Pho-neem. I'm guessing they want a two syllable Lex-eem pronunciation.

Cerberus

1:43 AM

Distinction?

Tonepoet

Lexiceem would be three syllables.

Cerberus

The Greek suffix -ma is normally added to a verbal stem, to form a noun indicating its effect or result.

> φών-ημα, ατος, τό, sound made, utterance, S.Aj. 16, Ph.1295, Ichn.39; of a singer's voice, D.C.61.20; of a dog's bark and ass's bray, Gal.18(1).291.

2. thing spoken, speech, language, S.Ph.234, OT324.

Shafizadeh

@Mitch I found it. thx

Tonepoet

@cerberus I'm not sure how that's relevant to lexeme, which means lexical unit, in the same way phoneme means phonetic unit.

tchrist

@Tonepoet How did you think it was pronounced?

Tonepoet

1:51 AM

@tchrist The best way I can approximate it is phone-enemy.

Cerberus

@Tonepoet It uses the suffix improperly.

And the prefix is wrong too.

Tonepoet

@Cerberus Absolutely loathsome.

Cerberus

remains silent

Tonepoet

@tchrist Oh, also if you're wondering why I never bothered to look it up, or why nobody ever corrected me, it's because my primary experience with the word is as the title for this piece of music

user227867

It turns out to be so hard to delete photos you have uploaded for your google profile. You need to go to Picasa web albums...

user227867

1:58 AM

I think google needs to hire more competent people to rewrite their code.

Tonepoet

And that piece of music is from a Japanese computer game called Touhou 05, Lotus Land Story.

tchrist

@JasperLoy Thank you for volunteering.

user227867

Sometimes I visit youku.com which is like a Chinese version of youtube.com

user227867

You can check it out if you get bored with youtube.com

user227867

The front page looks much juicier, lol

tchrist

2:04 AM

@Cerberus Not even when you have all those lexis running around? :)

Mitch

@Cerberus and everything in between

Cerberus

@JasperLoy Or they should improve their morals.

@tchrist ?

@Mitch There isn't much there...

Mitch

@Cerberus Is that something about which you can't say anything?

@JasperLoy Google is the worst

user227867

@Cerberus There are actually a million and one settings in your google account that you can change so that they will track your online activities to different degrees. But they are hidden in a million and one places.

tchrist

If the word is s, and lexi- is a prefix for s, then lexis should be word. :)

Mitch

2:09 AM

@Tonepoet The title seems to be "This video does not exist."

Cerberus

@Mitch doesn't answer

@JasperLoy Yes, and you can be sure that incompetence is not the reason.

@tchrist If you say so, Jasper.

tchrist

You're lasping again.

Mitch

@Cerberus The answer for everything that is not the case.

@Cerberus Have you seen the abomination that is iTunes?

Tonepoet

@Mitch It's Scarlet Phoneme. Here's a video of it in context.

tchrist

I know that s is word, because mini- is a prefix and people are always talking about minis. Sometimes even maxis.

Mitch

2:15 AM

@tchrist whatever happened to the midi?

tchrist

Did it go somewhere?

Mitch

in the attic? next to the bell bottoms?

tchrist

No, in the pool next to Luke.

And Anakin.

Mitch

at the same time? That would be weird.

@JasperLoy very juicy

if by juicy you mean a bunch of people talking to each other, plus a guy looking like he's in a bath of blood.

Cerberus

2:31 AM

@Mitch That may be partly incompetence, but not the parts that violate your privacy...

I've never used Itunes.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive body detected: Was 'douchebag' used in its metaphorical sense already in the '80s? by user192285 on english.stackexchange.com

Mitch

@Cerberus deleting photos from your profile is not really privacy. and anyway aren't other big apps worse on privacy than google? namely fb?

@Cerberus I don't use it much. I avoid it. it's just a bad UI

Cerberus

@Mitch I was referring to Jasper's Youtube settings.

The photo thing is perhaps more about trying to lock in customers, but also because they can use your photo's for their secret rituals to extract private data from your life.

Mitch

@Cerberus In other news, you're just back from going out?

Cerberus

Google is bad, Facebook is worse.

@Mitch Why do you ask?

I've returned from a wedding four hours ago.

Mitch

2:41 AM

@Cerberus because it would be terribly late for just sitting around.

Cerberus

Never for me.

Mitch

@Cerberus nice.

Cerberus

I rarely go to bed before 5.

Yes, it was nice.

There was a labyrinth.

Mitch

If you're used to it, then no problem. It would ruin me if I did that once.

Cerberus

I understand.

Waking up before noon ruins me.

Mitch

2:42 AM

@Cerberus just for the wedding or permanently?

Cerberus

It's mostly a matter of whatever you're used to, no?

Mitch

@Cerberus haha. nice.

Cerberus

Permanently.

Mitch

just in time for brunch

Cerberus

Hedges.

Mitch

2:42 AM

so no cheating? slipping between bushes?

around here there are lots of corn hedges. in corn fields in the fall, they'll harvest one special corn field in a labyrinth pattern.

Cerberus

Not possible unless I really wanted to ruin my suit by trying to climb over the thick/dense/high hedges.

That sounds great.

Robusto

Ho-hum.

Cerberus

Hail!

If it isn't...

Robusto

Ave!

Mitch

It's a lot of fun. Especially because you can cheat

tchrist

2:44 AM

@Mitch Language!

Cerberus

No, it can't be...

Mitch

@tchrist sputters

Cerberus

@Robusto You've come just too late to stand for moderator.

Mitch

That's all I have to work with here!

Robusto

@Cerberus Who, me?

Cerberus

2:45 AM

You should have.

Would have been fun.

Robusto

I would never do it.

Cerberus

I know.

But still.

tchrist

He won't stand for it.

Robusto

I never volunteered to clean up the classroom in grade school, either.

Cerberus

I know.

Mitch

2:46 AM

@Robusto You? You were the one?

tchrist

I meant it the other way. ;)

Cerberus

I don't generally favour cleaning either.

Robusto

Mods ain't what they used to be.

Cerberus

Modules?

Robusto

Modulus.

Cerberus

2:47 AM

||

How's the old G4 hanging, or what was it?

Robusto

See, if we could have a mode recall election I might be interested. Because ELU has had some notably horrible examples. But elect new ones? Well, I'm old enough to remember when we had Reg, Kosmonaut, and nohat and that was good enough.

We elected a couple of Donald Trumps. Well, perhaps one. But it was enough to make me pack my bags.

Cerberus

Indeed, good times.

But mods come and go; the current tableau is not forever.

tchrist

@Robusto You could always, you know like, vote.

Robusto

Feb 23 '15 at 14:14, by Robusto

> You can't step into the same river twice.

Cerberus

Indeed.

Robusto

2:50 AM

@tchrist Tried it. It didn't work.

tchrist

Say what?

How could it "not work"?

Robusto

What.

tchrist

Oh, you voted against Bush. Yeah, that didn't work.

Robusto

I voted for la zorra. And no good deed, etc.

Cerberus

It splurted out the wrong result?

Alas.

tchrist

2:51 AM

english.stackexchange.com/election/4

Robusto

Sí.

tchrist

No, vote here.

9 mins ago, by Mitch

so no cheating? slipping between bushes?

Clinton did both of those.

Robusto

And many more.

Cerberus

The hour of 5 is a-proaching...

It was good to catch your glimpse.

Robusto

What time do you usually go to sleep?

Cerberus

2:54 AM

As late as possible.

Robusto

@Cerberus Same. Good to see you again.

tchrist

Isn't it time for proched eggs?

Cerberus

Definitions of possible vary.

A few hours later than the day before is preferable but rarely possible.

Robusto

For you it seems like larger and larger values of possible all the time.

Cerberus

I like to poss.

Robusto

2:55 AM

You are both possible and biddable.

Cerberus

Such an insult!

And at this time!

Robusto

Sorry!

I was just trying to be funny.

Cerberus

Forgiven.

tchrist

@Cerberus comitatus?

Robusto

I didn't mean to say things I couldn't take back.

tchrist

2:56 AM

No one ever does.

Robusto

And yet ...

Cerberus

I like to poss 'em, but I don't live in posses like possems.

tchrist

o

Robusto

@Cerberus You're not a real poss. You're a posseur.

Or maybe I'm the posseur. I get confused sometimes.

Cerberus

I may seem to pose as a god, but in truth I am possessed.

Robusto

2:58 AM

A possess is a female posseur.

tchrist

That's a whole lotta s.

Adeus!

CYA, @Cerberus.

smoke

posse means possession in Portuguese.

Cerberus

2:59 AM

witch-cackling

tchrist

Or command.

In a political sense.

Can you guess its gender?

Robusto

No puedo hablar portugués.

tchrist

You have a 50% chance of getting it right!

Robusto

Masculine_

tchrist

If you try again, you'll have a 100% chance.

I wish I could explain why it's feminine. It feels right to me that it is, but I cannot explain that.

Robusto

3:00 AM

Hmm. Yeah, weird.

tchrist

Big abstract things tend to be feminine.

Robusto

@tchrist Maybe because it sounds vaguely like "pussy" in English? Just a thought ...

tchrist

Kinda.

> (Portugal) IPA(key): /ˈpɔ.sɨ/
(Brazil) IPA(key): /ˈpɔ.si/
(South Brazil) IPA(key): /ˈpɔ.se/

Mostly because I think of it as an abstract thing.

Same root as the verb poder.

Robusto

I learned that the -ma words in Spanish are masculine because of the impression that they all come from Greek, which still makes not a whole lot of sense.

tchrist

Oh yes, that's right.

The exception is la trama meaning plot. That's feminine.

Ask @Cerberus why all the other -ma words are masculine sometime.

Well, la cama, but that isn’t Greek either.

Robusto

3:03 AM

He's sleeping now. I like to let sleeping dogs lie.

tchrist

And la rama for branch is Latin, not Greek.

And la fama is Latin, not Greek.

But el drama because that one is Greek.

el fantasma for ghost.

Although we have both la ciudad fantasma and el pueblo fantasma, because it's acting as an attributive noun not as an adjective that agrees.

But φάντασμα was neuter in Greek.

It’s masculine in Spanish but bisexual in Portuguese.

Robusto

OK, @tchrist, I cast one vote. That's all I'm going to do. See if you can guess who it's for.

tchrist

Yoichi.

Robusto

He's already a mod.

tchrist

See how effective your vote is!

Robusto

3:11 AM

Yeah, that was another screw-up I can point to.

File under "What was I thinking?"

tchrist

This was amusing.

Robusto

Let it also be said that i don't want to be class president or Homecoming King (or Queen) either, btw.

tchrist

I knew those people.

Mod is janitor, not president.

Robusto

Siempre fui rebelde.

tchrist

Sometimes latrine-cleaner-outer.

I’m thinking you don't have to have un there, but it isn't forbidden.

Robusto

3:15 AM

Well, I voted for you because you already do most of that latrine work anyway. Why not make it official.

tchrist

Thanks.

Robusto

So it's kinda like German in that respect?

No article required?

tchrist

It's a role or job. For whatever reason, you often don't have an article there.

It can go either way.

Robusto

In English we say "I'm tech lead" or "I'm the tech lead" or even "I'm a tech lead" ...

tchrist

It's like that.

Soy rebelde sounds fine.

No soy marinero...

Robusto

3:17 AM

He hecho una nota de ese.

tchrist

Del marinero? :)

Robusto

No soy marinara.

tchrist

Don't mix the sauces.

Robusto

I hate marinara with soy sauce. Just saying.

Jinx.

tchrist

Shorter punchlines get out first.

Robusto

3:19 AM

They're punchier.

tchrist

Did you get rain yesterday?

Robusto

No, but I got some the day before ... when I drove through Arizona on my way home from California.

tchrist

That makes sense.

Robusto

Wait, yes we did get rain here in NM yesterday.

tchrist

I got a lot.

Robusto

3:21 AM

I forgot, but we had a thunderstorm for about ten minutes.

tchrist

Today it was clear as autumn.

Robusto

Yeah, there is some coolness in the air today.

Not as much as you have, probably, but I can feel that summer is on its wane out.

tchrist

It was only in the 70s today.

Mitch

Weather: you can't live with it, you can't live without your head exploding in a vacuum.

Robusto

The sky is fabulous here, btw. Today I could see for 80 miles.

tchrist

3:24 AM

Yes, that's the clarity that yesterday's storm brought, I think.

Robusto

That's the trouble with New England. You never see any atmospheric perspective.

tchrist

Anything in the East has that problem. Can't see shit.

Mitch

@Robusto It wasn't a bad thing. Just a no-op.

Robusto

@Mitch Well, a bit more than a noop.

Mitch

but opportunity costs

also there's no concept here of officially leaving. You're in for life.

Robusto

3:27 AM

But our problem with mods here is one of having jumped-up people with tiny souls who clutch at their modicum of power. The Trumps of this world. Not all, certainly, but more than is healthy.

Mitch

@Robusto arguments terrible something somethety something the stakes are so low

Robusto

Haha, I said "our" problem when I should have said "your" problem.

Mitch

haha.

ha

gulp

also, sends name in to trump campaign for post election 'cleanup'

Robusto

@tchrist Actually I have seen atmospheric perspective in New England before. But it was singularly unimpressive. And you have to be on top of a mountain. Otherwise what you said is accurate: "Can't see shit."

Anyway, gotta go. Hasta la vista, mis amigos.

user227867

4:14 AM

@Robusto Enjoy your retirement.

Tonepoet

5:44 AM

Does anybody have Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 9th edition?

user227867

10:34 AM

@Tonepoet I wonder when the 12th edition will be published.

user227867

@Robusto It's time to let go.

Keep these mind

2:52 PM

What's the possessive form of the plural s's? Is it s's'?

DEAD

Examples?

tchrist

That’s infelicitous. I should be included to write of the esses’ sibilance.

For ’tisn’t often that one sees two apostrophes in one word. I pro’ly shouldn’t’ve brought ’em up.

I predict that today shall be Squirm Day on ELU, not Sun Day.

DEAD

3:09 PM

@tchrist Well, it's Summer Day where I live.

Lawrence

@Keepthesemind There's even a case to be made for s's's, depending on how you pronounce it, given that the sibilance is intrinsic to the expression :) . Probably time to rephrase, though.

tchrist

As far as sounds go, I don’t know that these s’s’s isn’t better left unmentioned.

So spake the sybil.

Keep these mind

Can a possessive form have a (further) possessive form?

Like 'Jack's books' covers are hideous.' -> 'Jack's' covers are hideous.' (when talking about books a lot)

Færd

6:34 PM

Do women wear manteaux in your country? I checked ODO, which says:

> 1 A loose gown or cloak worn by women in the 17th and 18th centuries.

> 1.1 A long, loose coat or overshirt worn by Muslim women.

tchrist

I have never heard the word.

Færd

Maybe half the women around here wear them.

I didn't know it was a regional thing.

tchrist

Picture?

It's summer. Nobody wears coats.

Færd

Maybe we have different names for the same thing.

DEAD

Fard, we wear pretty much the same clothes whether it's winter or summer.

Tonepoet

6:39 PM

@JasperLoy I'm not too hopeful that it'll ever be published as such. They might just move to a completely online model, which would be a shame because unlike the internet, printed books are indelible resources.

Færd

@DEAD There are different kinds of manteaux, looser and more appropriate for summer, or thicker and warmer, ...

I don't follow fashion or have an eclectic colorful wardrobe myself, but I don't think people wear the same things all the time.

These students are wearing manteau uniforms:

DEAD

Strawberry ice cream

Færd

I guess coat is not the best word for it, because you can wear pants and a manteau without having anything else on (except for your underwear).

But yeah, most of the time it is used as an overshirt or something.

Færd

6:57 PM

And it's funny that ODO says worn by Muslim women; almost every non-Muslim woman I know wears them too.

tchrist

People don't wear that here.

Færd

Yeah, now that I pay attention it looks obvious. I just didn't notice.

And if they did, I guess they'd call it coat or something.

tchrist

I think so.

Do those count?

Færd

I'm having a slow connection, sorry.

Maybe it'll load after a while.

tchrist

Sorry, too big.

Færd

7:03 PM

If you mean the outermost things that those women are wearing, then I guess no.

tchrist

I think those are long sweater jackets maybe.

Færd

Yeah.

stack

9:44 PM

Is this sentence correcT?

> How can I disable turning my ipad's screen on when there is a notification?

Tonepoet

@stack "How can I disable my iPad's screen turning on when there is a notification?" would be preferred. Verbs usually go before the preposition, because the preposition is actually being used as an adverb.

stack

Ah ok thx :-)

Tonepoet

@stack You're welcome. I just wish I could explain it better than that.

stack

@Tonepoet I got the point and thanks again pal :-)

Mitch

10:03 PM

@Færd There are a number of things: chador, hejab, manteau, niqab, burka, head scarf, known as those in English to describe things women wear both in muslim and non-muslim countries. The English word may not be exactly what is intended by the same Arabic or Persian word. A burka and niqab in English are mostly synonomous for the full face and body covering worn in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabian (the balck ones, make the women look like ninjas to the Western eye).

The chador, hijab, and manteau are synonymous in English for a head covering and for the something leaving the face open but cover the hair and arms and going down to the knees or even feet. A head scarf just covers the hair on the head without any mention of covering anything else.

These are what westerners call them. They have more specific meanings in Arabic or Farsi (which you would know better). Just wiki for them to see how they are described in English (which will attempt to be more accurate than me but may still not be what you would think exactly corrrect).

In the US it is rare to see a full body/face niqab/burka. Well, I've never seen one in real life or TV in the US.

On college campuses I've seen a few chador. But in the US a headscarf is not rare anymore, lots of people wear them in public. By lots, I mean in my area (NE US, big city), at least one seen in visit to grocery store every time, out of 200-300 people.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: "Steamroller" to describe a person as very determined by user192381 on english.stackexchange.com

Mitch

@Færd In Iran? Of course. By decree. Any woman who didn't, no matter what religion, would be taunted on the street for not wearing one (also fined by the police).

user227867

10:32 PM

@Mitch You seem to be an expert on such clothing. You must be in the religious council.

Mitch

11:32 PM

@JasperLoy My first motion as head of the religious council would be to ban all religious councils that exercise power over religious councils.

Also, I got really curious when I started noticing how all those head coverings are called. So I looked it up. If you don't anything wikipedia is great. I'm worried about what is actually the case.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: What do you call a person who uses vulgar words too often? by Barry on english.stackexchange.com

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…