English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mitch

18:02

words from greek place names: cretin, sporadic, meander, megalopolis, olympian, all the modes in music, all those column styles (ionic, doric, corinthian), copper (well, that's cheating, cyprus was named after what was copper), Boeotian is for country bumpkins but probably only for classically trained and in that context, oh, obviously spartan. Does 'atlantic' count a place name named after a place name)?

@Cerberus any more?

Cerberus

@Mitch I think "word" is a bit too general.

There are a million places in Greece.

And you can name them in English. So you would have a million English words from Greek place names.

So do you mean words that are not place names in English?

terdon

@Mitch I'm going to have to disagree on those. I'm not sure atlantic counts as Greek at all. Sporadic doesn't come from the Sporades, just like Cyprus, they were named for the term. Meander isn't a place, is it? I believe cretin comes from Christian, but either way, I'm pretty sure it doesn't come from Crete.

Cerberus

E.g. Byzantine, Arcadia.

terdon

@Cerberus Ehm. Byzantium isn't quite in Greece ;)

Cerberus

But it is Greek.

terdon

18:06

Was anyway, sure.

Cerberus

Still is!

It doesn't stop being a Greek place name.

Where is your irredentism!?

terdon

The Four Lads - Istanbul (not Constantinople)

►

Cerberus

That doesn't change what the word is.

terdon

@Cerberus Nonexistent.

Cerberus

How sad.

terdon

18:08

@Cerberus Sure, the word is Greek, no argument there.

Cerberus

Good.

terdon

I had to look up irredentism, what a great word!

Cerberus

nods

Færd

Is there something like a cosmopolitan programming language? That if you know you can engage in a conversation with most programmers (well, to a limited degree of communication, of course)?

Cerberus

(No idea, maybe Javascript?)

Færd

18:10

Or am I showing that I'm a programming virgin by asking this?

Cerberus

I'm even more virginious than you.

Færd

:)

Mitch

@Cerberus correct. so then the atlantic ocean is out.

byzantine is totally allowed.

terdon

@Færd PHP

Programmers will either know it or spend the next half hour screaming at you for even mentioning it.

Matt E. Эллен

:D

holds back his screams

Færd

18:13

@terdon Oh.. thanks.

Mitch

you're right about christianus -> cretin but I like making fun of people from Crete needlessly.

Matt E. Эллен

@Færd I agree with @Cerb, Javascript is about as universal as PHP

terdon

@Mitch No worries, I feel the same way about Christians, really.

Mitch

@terdon but then that's not what Fard wants

Cerberus

@MattE.Эллен Yay! And I don't even speak it.

terdon

18:14

Well, it would start a conversation.

All programmers have strong opinions on PHP at this point.

Færd

I am kind of offered a job which includes dealing with programmers in general.

Cerberus

Does elysian count?

Mitch

if you learn programming in college it'll be java (or maybe javascript). wait... I don't know any more!

terdon

More seriously, @Færd I would guess all programmers have at least touched on C at some point. If only while in university.

Cerberus

Marathon?

Matt E. Эллен

18:16

Lesbos

Mitch

@terdon oh (re sporadic). that ruins my entire outlook on life.

breaks bad

Færd

@MattE.Эллен Thanks.

Mitch

by breaking wind

Færd

@terdon That gave me a better clue.

Cerberus

Lesbian, yes.

Mitch

18:16

Ooh wee is that broken

@Cerberus and saphic

is that right?

Cerberus

But Sappho isn't a place.

Matt E. Эллен

That's a person, rather than a place

jinx!

Cerberus

She's a poetess.

terdon

@Mitch Well, etymonline cites the word but not the islands and it makes more sense that they were named after the concept rather than vice versa. Can't say as I know for sure though.

Mitch

@Cerberus yeah, marathon, duh, I knew there were a whole bunch.

Cerberus

18:17

Does labyrinthine count?

terdon

@Cerberus She is now. She fell of a cliff, that makes her part of the scenery in a very literal (and littoral, in this case) way.

Cerberus

Hah.

Mitch

@terdon as to 'makes sense' I disagree or rather I think without facts, I could make a cogent argument either way and neither argument is better than the other.

Cerberus

I don't think the rules allows that...

Mitch

@Cerberus is that like a town name originally?

Cerberus

18:18

No, but it does refer to a place.

Which is probably based on something historic.

Either the palace of Knossos or something else on Crete.

Færd

@terdon Wouldn't that take me too long to learn comparatively?

Cerberus

But you didn't say it had to have been a real place...

Cf. elysian.

terdon

@Færd No, actually. C is one of the smaller languages. It is a complete pain to use and not a good place to start, but The C Book is tiny.

Færd

I had about 3 credits worth of C++ at university, but that was too long ago.

terdon

@Mitch Fair point. We do have σπόρος (spore) and similar words though so it seems more likely to me that the islands were named so after the word.

Færd

18:20

@terdon I see.

Mitch

Aug 26 '14 at 11:21, by Robusto

@MattЭллен Littoral noun A misprint of a seashore.

@Cerberus stygian?

that's too transparent almost like Boeotian

terdon

@Mitch Huh? No it isn't! Is it?

MW has it!

Aaaaaaaaa

Cerberus

@Mitch Ding!

Mitch

@terdon I don't know what they were called in antiquity. I wasn't there. I was busy with other things

Cerberus

@terdon Oh, yes.

I believe it is a rather old word, too.

Mitch

18:22

the pun is getting better

littoraly

nope that didn't work, but you get the possibility of refinement

terdon

Well damn, it makes sense in context!

Aug 26 '14 at 11:21, by Matt Эллен

> Literal noun — A misprint of a letter.

Færd

@terdon So if you wanted to balance easiness of learning against painlessness of using, you would suggest something else?

terdon

@Færd Python, probably. That's one of the most popular ones today.

Mitch

venereal et al. don't count... becuase I say so. It's my game, my rules. also they don't sound like place names.

terdon

Royal Venus?

Færd

18:25

Hmm. Thanks. I won't really know if I don't start learning something.

terdon

A venusian palace, perhaps.

Mitch

@terdon is this just for discussing at 'cocktail parties' or for actually the most common programming language?

terdon

@Mitch Dunno, ask @Færd.

Mitch

@Færd Hey! is this just for discussing at 'cocktail parties' or for actually the most common programming language, for a suggestion about what to learn first?

terdon

What is the most common, actually? JS? I would guess one of JS, Python and/or some variant of Java.

Cerberus

18:26

guesses JS because of all the websites

Færd

@Mitch I'm kinda offered a job, an office administration kind of work, that includes dealing with various programmers.

Mitch

oh so you need to know how to program a little? not just to make conversatoin about it informally, but in a work setting?

Færd

I'm not programming myself. Will probably have to manage some funds too. I want to have a clue when they talk about their projects

terdon

@Færd Then learn any language at all, really. It's the general concepts that you'll need to understand.

Mitch

if the first, then learn the one that your managees will be using the most

Færd

18:30

Good suggestions. Thanks.

terdon

Preferably something modern and actively used today. I vote for python again. It's very popular, relatively easy to learn and object oriented so it should let you understand a bit of what they are dealing with.

Mitch

@Færd oh hey, funds? If any of those fall on the floor, don't throw them out, I'll take em off your hands for you.

terdon

whistles tonelessly

Mitch

what? I'm sure I can do something with them after cleaning them off.

Færd

@Mitch I own them as much as a bank teller owns the bills he counts. :)

terdon

18:33

@Mitch Insulation?

Cerberus

@terdon But how often would he use Python in real life, as a beginner?

Isn't Javascript more practical?

You can immediate begin writing scripts for webpages.

I've had to deal with Javascript many times, but I've only ever need to use Python once.

terdon

@Cerberus Many (most?) of those are written in Python, PHP, and Perl.

Cerberus

So learned it specially for that occasion.

terdon

Javascript is for the frontend, what you see. The data crunching is usually done by "server side" languages like the above.

Cerberus

Yes, but what are the chances that he will be doing that?

I've had to use PHP only once or twice.

terdon

18:35

Dunno, depends on what he's doing.

If he wants to communicate with programmers though, I'd recommend learning something like Python, yes. All the concepts are there and the learning curve is not very steep.

Cerberus

I wouldn't let me program servers...

OK.

Færd

lurks

terdon

Matt E. Эллен

I get along with python

terdon

@Cerberus No, the distinction is on whether the code is run on the server (the machine hosting the webpage) or the client (your machine when you visit a webpage). It isn't about "programming servers"

Færd

18:39

( from here )

Cerberus

@terdon Okay, sure. I meant program backend stuff.

Which seems more important and more difficult.

terdon

It does, but it isn't. Both are equally hard, really, they just have different difficulties.

And both are programming.

Færd

I guess I won't lose, whichever I choose.

Cerberus

@terdon I can only speak for my own experience: as a total noob, I've had to deal with Javascript more often than with Python and PHP.

That may or may not be relevant to Faerd.

Færd

@Cerberus In what context did you have to deal with it?

terdon

18:45

@Cerberus Sure, but you're apparently a noob who is looking at webpages. If you're not working on webpages (and the vast majority of programmers still aren't) then JS is not very useful.

Cerberus

@Færd Mostly dealing with web pages.

@terdon Much less, yes.

Færd

Hmm. I guess most fund-needing projects in Iran are not mainly working on webpages.

@terdon So this being object oriented is an important feature, huh?

terdon

Yeah. I'm not very familiar with OO programming myself, to tell you the truth, but yes, it's important today.

Færd

I see. Thanks to all. Have a good one. :) o/

Cerberus

19:02

Hmm I should look up what OO is again.

I remember reading about it.

It it was very abstract.

The practical implications were not clear to me.

TIPS

O_O programming

Cerberus

@Robusto Muy bien!

I played the Great Language Game with one of my pupils.

He was very good.

He even had ideas about Indian languages.

TIPS

19:25

@Cerberus Heh, after watching some spam network-wide, you'd be able to detect such languages as well.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:42

@Cerberus It's a way of organizing code so that it's easier to write, basically. You define "objects" which are data + code. Then you can use the objects without worrying about what's inside them.

TIPS

20:09

imgur.com/gallery/OCbnY

Mitch

@terdon well, sure, crumple them lightly in a ball to get the best heat retention

@Cerberus PHP is on its way out (mostly because javascript is a replacement and that much more versatile and has a better ecosystem). Python is for the backend

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch how does javascript replace php?

Mitch

@terdon that presumably has a biased selection of answerers. I find it hard to believe that Python is so far above everyone else (despite it's use ascendancy in particular groups like data scientists)

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 php for writing webpages, javascript also. not one to one replacement, but ecosystem replacement

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch Javascript isn't used to write webpages nearly as often as php is.

Matt E. Эллен

it should be. everyone should drop PHP. forever.

Mitch

20:24

@MattE.Эллен I'm so sorry.

TIPS

Considering that mess of a tag on SO, I agree with @Matt.

Tags with @Matt

Matt E. Эллен

:)

Mitch

Ruby and Drupal too. They were rocket science 10 years ago. Not any more.

TIPS

Rants about how PHP code looks like some pokemon . . . of the earlier versions

Matt E. Эллен

Drupal is PHP, so by default.

TIPS

20:25

@Mitch The name "Drupal" reminds me of spam.

Mitch

@TIPS ...that were run over by a truck

TIPS

Regardless of the context.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен caught in a pile of BS

Matt E. Эллен

only in PHP have I seen switch(true)

Mitch

you need that sometimes

Matt E. Эллен

20:26

and that was a Drupal site, too

Mitch

soon we'll be writing our operating systems in salesforce.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch lol. ಠ_ಠ

also, I've known PHP devs to use comments as runtime code.

the whole PHP ecosystem is toxic. it should be shot into the sun

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен where it will be useful fuel to extend the life of the sun by just that little extra.

Matt E. Эллен

woo!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattE.Эллен That seems like it might be harmful to the sun.

Mitch

20:31

why did they get rid of visual basic? wasn't that useful for macros for excel?

Matt E. Эллен

isn't it still used for that?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 maybe the next star over, then

Mitch

I don't know. Have I ever spoken here with any connection to actual knowledge?

blah blah lblah C++ blah ablh optimizatoin blah bla blah netflix

which reminds me...

I've recently seen a couple of seasons of Breaking Bad.

It was OK.

ducks and runs

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch it picks up steam in the third season

Mitch

I was shocked how quickly it raised the stakes in just the first three episodes

There's all the frank sex talk. There's all the stuff you learn about the law. There's the arid but sometimes tropical landscape. There's the musical number every episode. Wait, that's "My crazy ex-girlfriend". Never mind.

Matt E. Эллен

20:49

Your crazy ex-girlfriend had musical episodes? sounds better than catatonic episodes

Mitch

You'd be surprised

.. at how good catatonic episodes are.

It's a very...calming entertainment

wait... what I was referring to first was "My crazy ex-girlfriend" not my crazy ex-girlfriend.

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend (TV series)

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend is an American romantic musical comedy-drama television series with elements of dark comedy and satire that premiered on October 12, 2015, on The CW. The series was created by Rachel Bloom and Aline Brosh McKenna, and stars Bloom in the lead role. On March 11, 2016, The CW renewed the series for a second season. == Synopsis == Rebecca Bunch is a Jewish, Yale and Harvard educated lawyer, who works for a top New York firm. She freaks out when offered a partnership and bumps into Josh Chan on the street. Josh was her first love from summer camp in 2005 and she never got over the...

choster

21:16

came to see what all the hullabaloo on Meta was about, but seems we're back to mere oolaballuh

Kit Z. Fox

Is there more hullabaloo? I just got home.

Mitch

21:35

@choster praised be unto him

MετάEd

@KitZ.Fox Hullabello.

This could be the new Ubbi Dubbi.

Rullabight?

Kit Z. Fox

For shullazzle.

choster

Is plural of hullabaloo hullahullabaloo ?

Or does it umlaut? Hullabalo?

Why yes, I did just use umlaut as a verb.

Shafizadeh

22:35

Damn .. I really cannot understand the difference between "that attribute is used for x" and "that attribute has used for" .. :(

choster

@Shafizadeh they are different in voice, primarily

that attribute is used for X and that attribute has been used for X

has used for isn't grammaticall

Shafizadeh

Yes I know there is a different .. Sadly I cannot understand it ..

@choster ah

Cerberus

23:31

@TIPS I see mostly Chinese?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hmm and are variables a kind of objects? Or vice versa?

@Mitch Ah OK, good to know.

I've had to write some simple code in PHP.

But w'evs.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…