English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2016-07-13 (page 2 of 2)

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6:02 PM

words from greek place names: cretin, sporadic, meander, megalopolis, olympian, all the modes in music, all those column styles (ionic, doric, corinthian), copper (well, that's cheating, cyprus was named after what was copper), Boeotian is for country bumpkins but probably only for classically trained and in that context, oh, obviously spartan. Does 'atlantic' count a place name named after a place name)?

@Cerberus any more?

@Mitch I think "word" is a bit too general.

There are a million places in Greece.

And you can name them in English. So you would have a million English words from Greek place names.

So do you mean words that are not place names in English?

@Mitch I'm going to have to disagree on those. I'm not sure atlantic counts as Greek at all. Sporadic doesn't come from the Sporades, just like Cyprus, they were named for the term. Meander isn't a place, is it? I believe cretin comes from Christian, but either way, I'm pretty sure it doesn't come from Crete.

E.g. Byzantine, Arcadia.

@Cerberus Ehm. Byzantium isn't quite in Greece ;)

But it is Greek.

6:06 PM

Was anyway, sure.

Still is!

It doesn't stop being a Greek place name.

Where is your irredentism!?

The Four Lads - Istanbul (not Constantinople)

That doesn't change what the word is.

@Cerberus Nonexistent.

How sad.

6:08 PM

@Cerberus Sure, the word is Greek, no argument there.

Good.

I had to look up irredentism, what a great word!

nods

Is there something like a cosmopolitan programming language? That if you know you can engage in a conversation with most programmers (well, to a limited degree of communication, of course)?

(No idea, maybe Javascript?)

6:10 PM

Or am I showing that I'm a programming virgin by asking this?

I'm even more virginious than you.

:)

@Cerberus correct. so then the atlantic ocean is out.

byzantine is totally allowed.

@Færd PHP

Programmers will either know it or spend the next half hour screaming at you for even mentioning it.

Matt E. Эллен

:D

holds back his screams

6:13 PM

@terdon Oh.. thanks.

you're right about christianus -> cretin but I like making fun of people from Crete needlessly.

Matt E. Эллен

@Færd I agree with @Cerb, Javascript is about as universal as PHP

@Mitch No worries, I feel the same way about Christians, really.

@terdon but then that's not what Fard wants

@MattE.Эллен Yay! And I don't even speak it.

6:14 PM

Well, it would start a conversation.

All programmers have strong opinions on PHP at this point.

I am kind of offered a job which includes dealing with programmers in general.

Does elysian count?

if you learn programming in college it'll be java (or maybe javascript). wait... I don't know any more!

More seriously, @Færd I would guess all programmers have at least touched on C at some point. If only while in university.

Marathon?

Matt E. Эллен

6:16 PM

Lesbos

@terdon oh (re sporadic). that ruins my entire outlook on life.

breaks bad

@MattE.Эллен Thanks.

by breaking wind

@terdon That gave me a better clue.

Lesbian, yes.

6:16 PM

Ooh wee is that broken

@Cerberus and saphic

is that right?

But Sappho isn't a place.

Matt E. Эллен

That's a person, rather than a place

jinx!

She's a poetess.

@Mitch Well, etymonline cites the word but not the islands and it makes more sense that they were named after the concept rather than vice versa. Can't say as I know for sure though.

@Cerberus yeah, marathon, duh, I knew there were a whole bunch.

6:17 PM

Does labyrinthine count?

@Cerberus She is now. She fell of a cliff, that makes her part of the scenery in a very literal (and littoral, in this case) way.

Hah.

@terdon as to 'makes sense' I disagree or rather I think without facts, I could make a cogent argument either way and neither argument is better than the other.

I don't think the rules allows that...

@Cerberus is that like a town name originally?

6:18 PM

No, but it does refer to a place.

Which is probably based on something historic.

Either the palace of Knossos or something else on Crete.

@terdon Wouldn't that take me too long to learn comparatively?

But you didn't say it had to have been a real place...

Cf. elysian.

@Færd No, actually. C is one of the smaller languages. It is a complete pain to use and not a good place to start, but The C Book is tiny.

I had about 3 credits worth of C++ at university, but that was too long ago.

@Mitch Fair point. We do have σπόρος (spore) and similar words though so it seems more likely to me that the islands were named so after the word.

6:20 PM

@terdon I see.

Aug 26 '14 at 11:21, by Robusto

@MattЭллен Littoral noun A misprint of a seashore.

@Cerberus stygian?

that's too transparent almost like Boeotian

@Mitch Huh? No it isn't! Is it?

MW has it!

Aaaaaaaaa

@Mitch Ding!

@terdon I don't know what they were called in antiquity. I wasn't there. I was busy with other things

@terdon Oh, yes.

I believe it is a rather old word, too.

6:22 PM

the pun is getting better

littoraly

nope that didn't work, but you get the possibility of refinement

Well damn, it makes sense in context!

Aug 26 '14 at 11:21, by Matt Эллен

> Literal noun — A misprint of a letter.

@terdon So if you wanted to balance easiness of learning against painlessness of using, you would suggest something else?

@Færd Python, probably. That's one of the most popular ones today.

venereal et al. don't count... becuase I say so. It's my game, my rules. also they don't sound like place names.

Royal Venus?

6:25 PM

Hmm. Thanks. I won't really know if I don't start learning something.

A venusian palace, perhaps.

@terdon is this just for discussing at 'cocktail parties' or for actually the most common programming language?

@Mitch Dunno, ask @Færd.

@Færd Hey! is this just for discussing at 'cocktail parties' or for actually the most common programming language, for a suggestion about what to learn first?

What is the most common, actually? JS? I would guess one of JS, Python and/or some variant of Java.

6:26 PM

guesses JS because of all the websites

@Mitch I'm kinda offered a job, an office administration kind of work, that includes dealing with various programmers.

oh so you need to know how to program a little? not just to make conversatoin about it informally, but in a work setting?

I'm not programming myself. Will probably have to manage some funds too. I want to have a clue when they talk about their projects

@Færd Then learn any language at all, really. It's the general concepts that you'll need to understand.

if the first, then learn the one that your managees will be using the most

6:30 PM

Good suggestions. Thanks.

Preferably something modern and actively used today. I vote for python again. It's very popular, relatively easy to learn and object oriented so it should let you understand a bit of what they are dealing with.

@Færd oh hey, funds? If any of those fall on the floor, don't throw them out, I'll take em off your hands for you.

whistles tonelessly

what? I'm sure I can do something with them after cleaning them off.

@Mitch I own them as much as a bank teller owns the bills he counts. :)

6:33 PM

@Mitch Insulation?

@terdon But how often would he use Python in real life, as a beginner?

Isn't Javascript more practical?

You can immediate begin writing scripts for webpages.

I've had to deal with Javascript many times, but I've only ever need to use Python once.

@Cerberus Many (most?) of those are written in Python, PHP, and Perl.

So learned it specially for that occasion.

Javascript is for the frontend, what you see. The data crunching is usually done by "server side" languages like the above.

Yes, but what are the chances that he will be doing that?

I've had to use PHP only once or twice.

6:35 PM

Dunno, depends on what he's doing.

If he wants to communicate with programmers though, I'd recommend learning something like Python, yes. All the concepts are there and the learning curve is not very steep.

I wouldn't let me program servers...

OK.

lurks

user image

Matt E. Эллен

I get along with python

@Cerberus No, the distinction is on whether the code is run on the server (the machine hosting the webpage) or the client (your machine when you visit a webpage). It isn't about "programming servers"

6:39 PM

user image

( from here )

@terdon Okay, sure. I meant program backend stuff.

Which seems more important and more difficult.

It does, but it isn't. Both are equally hard, really, they just have different difficulties.

And both are programming.

I guess I won't lose, whichever I choose.

@terdon I can only speak for my own experience: as a total noob, I've had to deal with Javascript more often than with Python and PHP.

That may or may not be relevant to Faerd.

@Cerberus In what context did you have to deal with it?

6:45 PM

@Cerberus Sure, but you're apparently a noob who is looking at webpages. If you're not working on webpages (and the vast majority of programmers still aren't) then JS is not very useful.

@Færd Mostly dealing with web pages.

@terdon Much less, yes.

Hmm. I guess most fund-needing projects in Iran are not mainly working on webpages.

@terdon So this being object oriented is an important feature, huh?

Yeah. I'm not very familiar with OO programming myself, to tell you the truth, but yes, it's important today.

I see. Thanks to all. Have a good one. :) o/

7:02 PM

Hmm I should look up what OO is again.

I remember reading about it.

It it was very abstract.

The practical implications were not clear to me.

O_O programming

@Robusto Muy bien!

I played the Great Language Game with one of my pupils.

He was very good.

He even had ideas about Indian languages.

7:25 PM

@Cerberus Heh, after watching some spam network-wide, you'd be able to detect such languages as well.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:42 PM

@Cerberus It's a way of organizing code so that it's easier to write, basically. You define "objects" which are data + code. Then you can use the objects without worrying about what's inside them.

8:09 PM

imgur.com/gallery/OCbnY

@terdon well, sure, crumple them lightly in a ball to get the best heat retention

@Cerberus PHP is on its way out (mostly because javascript is a replacement and that much more versatile and has a better ecosystem). Python is for the backend

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch how does javascript replace php?

@terdon that presumably has a biased selection of answerers. I find it hard to believe that Python is so far above everyone else (despite it's use ascendancy in particular groups like data scientists)

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 php for writing webpages, javascript also. not one to one replacement, but ecosystem replacement

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch Javascript isn't used to write webpages nearly as often as php is.

Matt E. Эллен

it should be. everyone should drop PHP. forever.

8:24 PM

@MattE.Эллен I'm so sorry.

Considering that mess of a tag on SO, I agree with @Matt.

Tags with @Matt

Matt E. Эллен

:)

Ruby and Drupal too. They were rocket science 10 years ago. Not any more.

Rants about how PHP code looks like some pokemon . . . of the earlier versions

Matt E. Эллен

Drupal is PHP, so by default.

8:25 PM

@Mitch The name "Drupal" reminds me of spam.

@TIPS ...that were run over by a truck

Regardless of the context.

@MattE.Эллен caught in a pile of BS

Matt E. Эллен

only in PHP have I seen switch(true)

you need that sometimes

Matt E. Эллен

8:26 PM

and that was a Drupal site, too

soon we'll be writing our operating systems in salesforce.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch lol. ಠ_ಠ

also, I've known PHP devs to use comments as runtime code.

the whole PHP ecosystem is toxic. it should be shot into the sun

@MattE.Эллен where it will be useful fuel to extend the life of the sun by just that little extra.

Matt E. Эллен

woo!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattE.Эллен That seems like it might be harmful to the sun.

8:31 PM

why did they get rid of visual basic? wasn't that useful for macros for excel?

Matt E. Эллен

isn't it still used for that?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 maybe the next star over, then

I don't know. Have I ever spoken here with any connection to actual knowledge?

blah blah lblah C++ blah ablh optimizatoin blah bla blah netflix

which reminds me...

I've recently seen a couple of seasons of Breaking Bad.

It was OK.

ducks and runs

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch it picks up steam in the third season

I was shocked how quickly it raised the stakes in just the first three episodes

There's all the frank sex talk. There's all the stuff you learn about the law. There's the arid but sometimes tropical landscape. There's the musical number every episode. Wait, that's "My crazy ex-girlfriend". Never mind.

Matt E. Эллен

8:49 PM

Your crazy ex-girlfriend had musical episodes? sounds better than catatonic episodes

You'd be surprised

.. at how good catatonic episodes are.

It's a very...calming entertainment

wait... what I was referring to first was "My crazy ex-girlfriend" not my crazy ex-girlfriend.

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend (TV series)

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend is an American romantic musical comedy-drama television series with elements of dark comedy and satire that premiered on October 12, 2015, on The CW. The series was created by Rachel Bloom and Aline Brosh McKenna, and stars Bloom in the lead role. On March 11, 2016, The CW renewed the series for a second season. == Synopsis == Rebecca Bunch is a Jewish, Yale and Harvard educated lawyer, who works for a top New York firm. She freaks out when offered a partnership and bumps into Josh Chan on the street. Josh was her first love from summer camp in 2005 and she never got over the...

9:16 PM

came to see what all the hullabaloo on Meta was about, but seems we're back to mere oolaballuh

Is there more hullabaloo? I just got home.

9:35 PM

@choster praised be unto him

@KitZ.Fox Hullabello.

This could be the new Ubbi Dubbi.

Rullabight?

For shullazzle.

Is plural of hullabaloo hullahullabaloo ?

Or does it umlaut? Hullabalo?

Why yes, I did just use umlaut as a verb.

10:35 PM

Damn .. I really cannot understand the difference between "that attribute is used for x" and "that attribute has used for" .. :(

@Shafizadeh they are different in voice, primarily

that attribute is used for X and that attribute has been used for X

has used for isn't grammaticall

Yes I know there is a different .. Sadly I cannot understand it ..

@choster ah

11:31 PM

@TIPS I see mostly Chinese?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hmm and are variables a kind of objects? Or vice versa?

@Mitch Ah OK, good to know.

I've had to write some simple code in PHP.

But w'evs.

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