English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

golly!

Uhoh. When the machines started learning that's when they took over the world.

He assumes so, wrongly, but decided to check with me first!

I averted disaster!

Sorta.

woohoo! progress is made

Everyone is so obsessed with picking the best out of ten candidates that they are ready to totally miss the fact that all of them are worse than any given eleventh would be. This is how American Idol and presidential elections work.

2:02 PM

I had a college student bitch to me about how we ought to be allowed to text in our votes.

He was serious.

because that's safe

Oh yeah.

It's way safer than anything you've got so far.

it's really difficult to spoof a mobile phone

I mean, it's my phone, right? So you know who I am.

2:03 PM

@MattЭллен It actually is.

putting a cross on a bit of paper seems quite safe

@RegDwightѬſ道 I think I could write software to appear as my mobile

@MattЭллен So difficult that a major paper was doing it for years in order to steal people's voicemail

I don't know though, I've not looked into it

@MrShinyandNew安宇 What?

@MattЭллен Sure, but there are hundreds of mobile phone manufactures, and only one voting machine manufacturer.

2:04 PM

@Kitḫ you didn't hear about the phone-hacking scandal in the UK?

Which one is easier to manipulate, one machine model, or thousands of phone models?

@MrShinyandNew安宇 No, I must've missed that.

@RegDwightѬſ道 Thousands of phone models.

Don't be ridiculous.

@RegDwightѬſ道 right but I don't need a mobile phone to text in a vote, or to make it look like I have

News International phone hacking scandal

The News International phone-hacking scandal is an ongoing controversy involving the News of the World and other British tabloid newspapers published by News International, a subsidiary of News Corporation. Employees of the newspaper were accused of engaging in phone hacking, police bribery, and exercising improper influence in the pursuit of publishing stories. Investigations conducted from 2005–2007 concluded that the paper's phone hacking activities were limited to celebrities, politicians and members of the British Royal Family. However, in July 2011, it was revealed that the phones...

@MattЭллен You also don't need to vote in elections at all for your vote to be cast for you.

2:05 PM

yeah. The News of The World thing is still all up in our faces in the UK

@Kitḫ Um. I am not ridiculous.

It's common knowledge how the voting machines were manipulated at the factory.

@RegDwightѬſ道 yeah, that's too mild. I suggest "redonkulous"

Which one is easier to manipulate, one sonar array from a nuclear sub, or thousands of phone models?

@Kitḫ The former. Because there is exactly one producer of the sonar array.

@RegDwightѬſ道 sure, the computer ones, but we don't have that in the UK

2:07 PM

You just fax him your requirements.

Which one is easier to manipulate: hundreds of deployed voting machines, from a couple vendors, all running different versions of the software? Or a handful of mobile carrier networks?

@RegDwightѬſ道 redingdonkulous

And anyway, we still use paper in my state. Not that you can't stuff ballot boxes.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 but all versions of the software start with the same line, "$Vote4Cheney = 1".

@Kitḫ I'm shocked, shocked, that you think that sort of thing goes on!

@RegDwightѬſ道 Good luck with that.

2:08 PM

@Kitḫ Well that's what actually happened in your country.

@RegDwightѬſ道 Somebody altered the spec on the sonar arrays? Not a chance.

Yeah whatever. It's not me who's getting Romney as president.

sorry, it was me. I didn't convert from metric to imperial

It would take at least a year for that to get through committee.

@MattЭллен I love how it's called "Imperial", because it's the system of the "Empire"

2:09 PM

@Kitḫ Which is why the election process takes so long.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Oh, and what an empire :D

although, of course, now a new empire :(

Look, what I have a hard time understanding is what happens to this paranoia when these things don't take place?

How do you mean that?

I only refer to things that actually took place in the past.

Romney isn't our president.

I'm not that politically ignorant.

It doesn't matter if all candidates are the same. Which brings me back to square one.

2:12 PM

Well, I happen to like Obama. I very much dislike Romney.

They don't seem the same to me.

So if all candidates are the same, why does it matter if the vote is rigged?

cache.lego.com/r/dynamic/is/image/LEGO/8827?%24main%24

Well yeah, Obama breaks his promises, while Romney just doesn't make any to begin with.

Right.

@Kitḫ Ask the people who rigged the machines.

I can't be bothered.

2:18 PM

Me, I am the first person to tell you that the whole multi-billion circus is completely unnecessary.

Well, not really the first...

Fair enough.

Panem et circenses.

So can we go back to bagging on stoopid usrs instead?

I don't see that this discussion is getting us anywhere.

did you see the "clients from hell" link I posted yesterday?

Of course it doesn't.

That's the thing.

This discussion, too, is part of the pointless circus.

2:20 PM

@MattЭллен Yes. I wasted several hours on it.

oops! :D

No sweat. It was great.

me too

I read bits to my husband while he played Skyrim.

sweet

did he have a laugh?

2:21 PM

Yeah.

He used to do tech support a day and an age ago.

ah. gotcha

He doesn't get the programming stuff, but IT stuff, oh yeah.

clients from hell is always good for a laugh

It makes me feel simultaneously better and worse.

I know what you mean

2:23 PM

It is good to know I am not alone, but rather depressing that people are so stupid.

some of the ones where payment was withheld were angry making

That's better

Nice.

Hey, good news is that I have a second consulting project, and in the "status completed" meeting that I had yesterday, the executive team was highly complimentary and wants to hire me to do more stuff. At a higher rate.

great news!

2:28 PM

Yes. Maybe someday I can pay off some of this debt.

@Kit congrats!

And go back to having a normal schedule.

It helped that the numbers were really impressive. We imported 8,600+ datafiles for all of last year for a whopping 18 million lines of store transaction data with only 3% of the datafiles missing.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Gah, when will they stop?

I can't be arsed collecting them all.

> I have directed your request to the database programmer who will fix this. She will email you as soon as it's fixed.

My project lead replies to the email that was sent to me that he was copied on.

smart! :]=

2:38 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 I love the new minifigs. Series 6 and 7 are looking pretty sweet... I want almost every one of them.

And for that, you'll have to buy OVER 9000 packages.

In fact I think the only two I don't want from S6 are the skater and the mechanic

@RegDwightѬſ道 nah, I just spend OVER 9000 minutes at the store, molesting all the packages to find out what treasure is inside.

I tried that, it sucks.

And seriously, what's the point of the exercise?

LEGO will only rethink their ways if I just stop paying.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I saw a cashier doing that.

It's effing expensive as is, no need to molest the customer even further.

2:41 PM

I enjoy it. It's like subverting the system.

@RegDwightѬſ道 Well, there is that.

See, I'm for replacing shitty systems rather than subverting them.

I'll probably prioritize my purchases for these ones and only get my top 5

I got only three of each of the last two series.

Haven't even opened them yet.

@RegDwightѬſ道 you're weird. Lego is for opening, not NOT opening

See, that's another thing: the surprise effect is what I like about it. Molesting the packages is not.

I am willing to pay extra for a nice surprise, but not for tedious work.

2:45 PM

wait... so, you like the fact that the packages are opaque? but you want one of every one of the minifigs? So your approach would be to buy OVER 9000 and thus guarantee your complete collection? I'd rather be able to just buy a pack with all 16, then I'd be done with the exercise.

I don't think Lego should be surprising.

Hold on, that's not what I mean.

OR: they should make 16 awesome figs, instead of 10 awesome ones, 3 questionable ones, and 3 shitty ones (seriously: how many skaters/skiers do we need?)

(over 9000?)

I mean, with series three, or was it two, I just went to the store with the bar codes, got myself all 16 packages, and exactly 16. But back at home, I had no idea which package contained which figure. So the element of surprise was still there, as was the element of completionism.

The best of both worlds.

Plus, while I had all the bar codes, I hadn't examined every single minifig in advance. I knew there would be a mime and a gladiator, etc., but for the most part I didn't even remember what I'd be getting.

But with the current series, it goes like: you want the statue of liberty, you molest the packages till you are 100% sure that you get the statue of liberty, and then you get the statue of liberty.

there is an element of skill in that

2:50 PM

And at that point they might as well just sell the thing in a transparent package for half the price.

@MattЭллен Call it skill or hard work, it still sucks.

well, it's fun for people who like swapping things with their friends

I remember swapping was a big thing when I was a school kid

@MattЭллен You mean who like to drive their parents crazy by asking for moar moar moar.

@RegDwightѬſ道 that is a side effect, yes

I don't want to swap LEGO. I want it MISB. Especially for the price I'm paying.

it's how Magic The Gathering helps foster the community

@RegDwightѬſ道 Well, yes I can see how that would be bad from that PoV

2:54 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 I doubt they would sell them cheaper if the packages were transparent.

Of course not. In fact economically it would make perfect sense to sell them at a higher price.

But I'm voicing my wishes, you know.

In a perfect world, yada yada.

Cause I'm not getting what I want anyway, so all I can do is dream, and while I'm at it why not dream big.

money for jam!

oh! perhaps I can teach wasps to mug people for money, that they give me in return for jam

@MattЭллен Why do white, anglo-saxon protestants want jam? wouldn't they rather just keep the money?

@MattЭллен Brilliant plan!

Thanks! I just need funding for the initial training phase...

@MrShinyandNew安宇 it's the only sweet thing that God allows them?

3:04 PM

@MattЭллен I see. In that case, you should start by going on a trip to hotels that serve the jam in those little packets. Stuff your pockets with 'em.

@RegDwightѬſ道 i was thinking of exactly that comparison (being the MtG fellow that i am).

Not jam for money, money for jam. Silly.

@JSBᾶngs you don't like the randomness of the packs the cards come in?

@MattЭллен no, i was agreeing with you. randomness, and the inevitability of getting a crap rare every now and then, is part of the fun. more importantly, it's central to the economics of a CCG

Is that like a MMOCCG?

giggle

3:08 PM

giggle

there's an article somewhere by markrose about why magic has to make bad cards. i'm pretty sure every argument there also applies to why lego has to make bad minifigs

@Kitḫ since i play exclusively online, it basically is an MMOCCG

@JSBᾶngs I see. I can see the sense in that, pretty much

@JSBᾶngs A CCG implies that you have other people to play that CCG with, and thus will have opportunity to trade, etc. "Collectible minifigs" does not have that same implication. I, for one, have nobody to trade with, and if I did they'd probably want the same ones as me.

@JSBᾶngs But...it was funny.

@Kitḫ haha! reality has derailed your joke.

3:10 PM

Sure is a blustery day today.

out here we have an "extreme cold warning"

it should be below -20F with windchill

Oh Noes!

That is how cold it was this weekend.

Just kidding. That was last week.

I suppose in Celsius that's like +40, so I'm not impressed.

That is very cold. You have my sympathy.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 the fact that everybody wants the same ones is, again, part of the economy. the combination of rarity and desirability is what sets the price in the secondary market

but i don't know what kind of secondary market lego has. i just know that the secondary market for Magic cards is huge

3:11 PM

indeed

Yeah and my point kind of is that there should be no secondary market for LEGO to begin with.

My husband and son are on their way to see Sesame Street Live right now.

I don't want to touch other people's diseased children's stuff.

@RegDwightѬſ道 well, ok, then. i could sort of agree with that.

@Kitḫ :O sounds fun

3:12 PM

for lego. not for magic.

@MattЭллен I wish I were going. pout I hope he has a really good time.

@Kitḫ awww. Yeah, I bet they will

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 There are many ways to parse this.

Name seven.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 That is your homework!

3:16 PM

@Kitḫ tonight they're predicting -50F! (that's -45C for those of you from strange foreign lands)

user19161

0

Q: Proof reading service

I am looking for a proof reading service for my scientific paper. I am not a native English speaker, I spend significant time on improving the writing, thus I want to try a proof reading service. I would like to go for Editage (http://www.editage.com/) but, before, I would like to learn what oth...

user19161

OT

already has 3 votes to close

@JSBᾶngs Wow! We hardly ever see that. That sucks. I hope you have lots of blankets. Camp out by the stove and co-sleep tonight.

Q: Using "exempli gratia" in essays

Still no migration love for this?

2

Can I use "exempli gratia" (short for e.g.) in place of "for example?" If so, do I need to add any words to it to completely replace the phrase "for example?"

abbreviations latin

user19161

3:20 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 I would leave the question on EL&U actually.

@RegDwightѬſ道 I see 2 migration loves and one other loves

user19161

But no true love.

user19161

@MattЭллен one other love

One other lovae's.

@WillHunting you have another love?! I'm so disappointed

user19161

3:23 PM

@MattЭллен Well, currently I have none actually.

@WillHunting not even a love for English?

user19161

@MattЭллен Not really actually. Why am I ending everything with actually?

@WillHunting you're not, actually

actually, all sentences should start with actually.

actually that way you know that what is being said is what is actually being said

actually i wonder whether that's actually the case actually

3:27 PM

That's actually how you achieve self-actualization.

user19161

Actually all of you are nuts.

semantic satiation achieved!

@JSBᾶngs But Lego doesn't make money from the secondary market, so their objective should be to make more money in the primary market. And by making it hard to complete the collection, you're more likely to get dupes. And I understand that, and it wouldn't be a problem if I had an easy way to trade figs with other collectors. But I'm the only AFOL I know personally. And all the kids I know are under 4.

Augh. I am crazy with envy for my husband.

@WillHunting actually, "actually" is one of my daughter's favourite words. She actually often starts sentences with "actually". "Actually, when I was three years old, we went to the museum"

3:34 PM

I'm gonna burninate the example, any objections?

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Soon she will be like aedia and use like in every sentence.

My windows are singing to me.

creepy

what are they singing?

Jan 13 at 20:40, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

►

@MattЭллен whoooo, oooooooooooooooooo, whoooooo

3:35 PM

Windows, windows, swimming in the ocean, causing a commotion, cuz they are so awesum.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 ah, I get it now

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 That sounds familiar!

What is a phrase @Cerberus never says?

@RegDwightѬſ道 I would try listening to it but it doesn't join properly at the end of the song, so I can't stand it.

@RegDwightѬſ道 "oh I remember..."?

3:37 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I know, I know.

I just listen to the original.

weebls-stuff.com/songs/Narwhals

►

@MattЭллен You've got it backwards. I was playing Jeopardy with Will Hunting.

@RegDwightѬſ道 oh! :D

Jan 13 at 17:37, by Cerberus

This does sound familiar.

:O

I cannot nix the last example :(

3:43 PM

Dec 12 '11 at 12:34, by Cerberus

Hehe, that does sound familiar.

Sep 19 '11 at 16:37, by Cerberus

The latter sounds familiar.

Aug 17 '11 at 14:51, by Cerberus

@aediaλ Sounds familiar!

Jun 1 '11 at 0:33, by Cerberus

It sounds familiar.

I'm beginning to think his weak memory is a ruse to make him more endearing

I don't think it is possible for Cerb to be more endearing.

See, @MrShinyandNew, not a single occurrence of "that sounds familiar"!

Q.E.D.

@Kitḫ possibly not :D

@MattЭллен i see no examples

but good on you for killing it

3:44 PM

@JSBᾶngs english.stackexchange.com/questions/54069/…

AAAUGH. why aren't there any knives nearby?

it's difficult to get to, but it's there

@JSBᾶngs There aren't?

Use a dagger, then.

@MattЭллен that doesn't have example

@MattЭллен I don't see the tag there.

@RegDwightѬſ道 Or a bare bodkin!

3:45 PM

Apr 22 '11 at 17:18, by Cerberus

@JSB: Yeah that sounds familiar. But is that so strange? They trust their own judgement as to what goals are worth supporting more than the government's.

U PIPL R FUNNEH

@JSBᾶngs woohoo! thanks @Reg

@MrShinyandNew安宇 "Yeah that sounds familiar." != "That sounds familiar!"

Geezis.

Learn to program.

Those strings are so unsimilar you have no idea.

Like '%that sounds familiar%'

Their Levenshtein distance is OVER 9000.

3:47 PM

orly?

Oh, Reg, I never stop loving you.

@Kitḫ Dislike '%that sounds familiar%'.

> The levenshtein distance of Yeah that sounds familiar. and That sounds familiar! is 7.

Serious question: does Facebook have a "Dislike" button?

no, it does not

3:48 PM

I never visit, so I have no idea.

No. Lots of people want one, though.

So what's the point of having a "Like" button, then?

You might just as well label it "Seen".

"George was here."

You like everything you've seen?

I don't.

No.

My point is that the label is irrelevant.

Then why would you say "Like" = "Seen"?

3:49 PM

It's just a random number.

12 Likes are just as good as 12 Seens.

Just as meaningless.

I disagree.

@RegDwightѬſ道 No, you don't HAVE to click "like"

Now, 12 Likes and 10 Dislikes, that is adding meaning.

if I like something on FB I probably will click the like button. If I've seen something on FB I don't necessarily like it

@MrShinyandNew安宇 And you don't have to click "Seen" or "George was here", either.

3:50 PM

it's a semantic difference

Okay since you are still missing my point, forget about "seen", label the button "sgas15209".

then why would I click it at all?

@RegDwightѬſ道 Then I don't know what to do with it.

@RegDwightѬſ道 I'm not missing your point. I'm saying your point is wrong.

Frigging window! It sounds like a split reed.

3:52 PM

I've seen many cases where people dislike the item, and for that reason don't click "like", but if there'd been a button called "dislike" they'd click that.

Yes, and?

There is no Dislike button.

right. So they click nothing. The "like" button often (not always, of course) reflects how many people liked the item enough to click it.

"Like" means you like something, you see.

there is a send button next to where I'm writing this message, if it was labelled "sgas15209" that would not indicate what it is for

Yes, but you are still missing my point.

Sigh.

3:53 PM

Not "how many people saw it" or "acknowledge that they read it"

"12 Likes" doesn't tell you jack. It doesn't tell you whether it was 12 out of 10000000 people, or 12 out of 12. So for all intents and purposes, all it tells you is that the number of visitors is >= 12.

@RegDwightѬſ道 so what is your point?

See above.

@RegDwightѬſ道 That doesn't mean it's totally meaningless

It just means you can't do math on it.

@RegDwightѬſ道 It tells you that 12 people liked it enough to click the button.

3:55 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 it doesn't. it means 12 people like it

so what

@MattЭллен So?

plus, you can know how many people out of. for example I know if anyone likes something I post then they are 1 of 81 who are able to do so

So 12 people like it.

So 12 people have visited the page.

3:56 PM

visted and said they like it

If you care about that.

If a person comes up to you and says "I like your hair today, Reg", that isn't meaningless. It means that person likes your hair. It's anecdotal, you can't use that as the basis of your commercial plan to revolutionize hair-care. But it does mean that that one person liked your hair.

You don't need to know how many people saw your hair, or how many people disliked it.

That would make me feel pretty good too.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Don't get me started on that.

@RegDwightѬſ道 Are you planning to revolutionize hair care?

3:57 PM

@Kitḫ exactly

So what does it tell you when 1400 people like an article about a raped child?

@RegDwightѬſ道 what, your hair? Nobody cares about your hair. If it had a dislike button, I'd be clicking it right now.

@RegDwightѬſ道 that 1400 people liked it

1400 people like raping children?

liked the article for some reason

3:59 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 mathematically? not much. So what? Maybe they liked the article because of the way it approaches the subject matter, even if they dislike child-rape. What would it tell you if 34 people clicked "like" and 78 clicked "dislike" and 456707 read the article and didn't click?

you understand positive operant reinforcement?

Yes, the vocabulary is limited, and thus the information conveyed is limited. But it's non-zero.

Yay for operant conditioning!