English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2012-01-18 (page 1 of 4)

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9:28 AM

hmm. am I the only one who can... access reddit?

what happened to the blackout? :-)

RegDwight Ѭſ道

9:49 AM

2

Q: Using "exempli gratia" in essays

Can I use "exempli gratia" (short for e.g.) in place of "for example?" If so, do I need to add any words to it to completely replace the phrase "for example?"

word-choice word-usage

Looks like a question for Writers.

@Jez it was supposed to go down for just 12 hours rather than 24.

0

Q: Participate IN or ON?

This is simple one: Which is the correct conjunction in the sentence below? Please, clarify why? Participated in/on producing quality software solutions for leading global insurance and reinsurance companies.

Lulz. "This is simple one." Then why do you ask? :P

10:05 AM

The correct preposition is "in". I have no idea why.

But I wonder whether there's a general principle here. Can anyone think of any synonyms for "participate", with which you'd use "on" as the preposition in place of "in"?

Matt Эллен

@DavidWallace "To participate in a dance I will participate on the dance floor"

The way I know which preposition to use in this situation, I use a trick. I think of a box. I put myself on the box. I then change the box into the thing that's happening (e.g. dancing) if I am in the right position to do the thing, then I use on, otherwise I position myself elsewhere relative to the box. If I need to be inside the box, then I should use the preposition in. It's not fool proof, but it works for me

Another example: I drive in a car, and on a road

RegDwight Ѭſ道

You also drive on a bus.

Matt Эллен

I sit on a bus, but I feel there is some elision there i.e. I sit on a seat in a bus

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Excuses, excuses.

Matt Эллен

It's how I get by in life

RegDwight Ѭſ道

10:19 AM

Truth is, there is no rule other than "repeat after other native speakers".

Matt Эллен

yes, it's not a rule

RegDwight Ѭſ道

You learn the language first, and then, a decade later, you start learning "rules".

Matt Эллен

but it's how I figure out what feels right

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Yeah I know you know, I'm just making sure we are not tricking others into something.

Matt Эллен

when I'm confused

fair enough

user19161

10:25 AM

I think the only reason for me to use Windows is because of ADOBE READER.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I think Adobe Reader is the only reason for me not to use Adobe Reader.

user19161

Somehow I am addicted to seeing the way it makes PDFs look.

user19161

Why can't anyone produce a reader that makes PDFs look so sexy?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

PDFs are not sexy. Nuff said.

user19161

Vigna unguiculata subsp. sesquipedalis

Vigna unguiculata subsp. sesquipedalis, the yardlong bean, is also known as bora, the long-podded cowpea, asparagus bean, snake bean, or Chinese long bean. It is known as dau gok in Cantonese, jiang dou (豇豆) in Standard Chinese, thua fak yao (ถั่วฝักยาว) in Thai and kacang panjang in Indonesian and Malay, 'SITAO' or 'SITAW' in Tagalog, utong in Ilokano, bora or bodi in the West Indies and vali, Borboti in Bengali, India, eeril in Goa, India or đậu đũa (Vietnamese, literally: chopstick bean), ju-roku sasage (十六ササゲ) in Japan. Despite the name, the pods are actually only about half a yard...

user19161

10:34 AM

The proper way to address the long bean I had.

Matt Эллен

long-podded cowpea! excellent

user19161

By the way you can see it for a few seconds before it blacks out.

user19161

So you can try to capture a screenshot and still read in the next 24 hours.

Matt Эллен

well, you could just turn off javascript

user19161

Wikipedia, I found a workaround!

Matt Эллен

10:35 AM

then there is no blackout

RegDwight Ѭſ道

The blackout is a lie.

user19161

There are many lies in this world.

user19161

Sometimes people do not listen to the truth.

user19161

So my use of long bean is not wrong.

Matt Эллен

dau gok

user19161

10:39 AM

I do not speak Cantonese to judge that.

Matt Эллен

nor me

user19161

But dialects sound very exotic to me.

Matt Эллен

the standard Chinese translates to cowpea via google translate

do you use the archive?

Matt Эллен

which archive?

user19161

10:41 AM

What archive?

user19161

arxiv.org???

to find the workaround

for wikipedia

Matt Эллен

no

user19161

No, I don't know what wikipedia archive you are referring to.

Matt Эллен

wikipedia is still working

user19161

10:42 AM

arxiv.org is for preprints of mathematical papers btw.

Matt Эллен

@Theta30 it blacks-out using javascript, so the content is still there

RegDwight Ѭſ道

More to the point, all non-English Wikipedias are not blacked out to begin with.

user19161

For once, not installing java is a good thing.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

So if you speak more than one language, which is an absolute must these days, you won't even notice.

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting how so?

user19161

10:43 AM

Have I mixed up the two Javas again?

Matt Эллен

I think so :D

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Yes you have.

user19161

Both are languages.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

There are no two Javas.

Matt Эллен

Java the hut?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

10:44 AM

There is one Java. And one JavaScript.

@WillHunting excellent

user19161

Java (programming language)

Java is a programming language originally developed by James Gosling at Sun Microsystems (which has since merged into Oracle Corporation) and released in 1995 as a core component of Sun Microsystems' Java platform. The language derives much of its syntax from C and C++ but has a simpler object model and fewer low-level facilities. Java applications are typically compiled to bytecode (class file) that can run on any [[Java Vi

user19161

JavaScript is a prototype-based scripting language that is dynamic, weakly typed and has first-class functions. It is a multi-paradigm language, supporting object-oriented, imperative, and functional programming styles. JavaScript was formalized in the ECMAScript language standard and is primarily used in the form of client-side JavaScript, implemented as part of a Web browser in order to provide enhanced user interfaces and dynamic websites. This enables programmatic access to computational objects within a host environment. JavaScript's use in applications outside Web pages ...

user19161

It's confusing.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

It is not. I never understood how people can mix up Java and JavaScript. That's like mixing up bar and barretter.

user19161

10:46 AM

Or butt and butter.

but then i need javascript for this very chat so i have to torn off/turn on when i use wikipedia

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Theta30 as stated earlier, learn a second language. Problem solved.

Matt Эллен

@Theta30 try the noscript addon for Firefox, if you browse with that. It lets you create a whitelist of sites that can use JavaScript. Then you can turn it on for here and off for wikipedia

user19161

Next time I go to the stall I will say I want vigna unguiculata instead of point to the long bean.

user19161

@MattЭллен Good good.

user19161

10:50 AM

That is a sure way of not getting any long bean.

Matt Эллен

:D

user19161

What if the person replies: you mean you want sesquipedalis?

user19161

Then I will have to reply: HB!

user19161

OMG there is a mathematica SE?

Matt Эллен

must be a large user base

user19161

11:01 AM

Soon there might be a Maple and Matlab one too.

Matt Эллен

maybe

11:28 AM

Hi!

The latest XP is col, isn't it?

It's well bing bing.

(I hop you know Catherine Tate's Lauren Cooper.)

Matt Эллен

You're admiring your shiny new install?

Hi!

@Cerberus as opposed to Google Google :D

@MattЭллен haha, yes, Google is the opposite of Bing, I'd say.

By the way, I heard it was a fine search engine.

Matt Эллен

oh! I've not used Bing. I judge a search engine on if my site is highest when I search for me :D

oh, which I am! Excellent. Full marks to Bing

Of course!

That is good news.

I like the Wiki blackout.

That will reach the front pages.

Matt Эллен

It is a good stand for them to take.

I hope it makes a difference

11:36 AM

Yeah.

Matt Эллен

I wonder if Google thought about it, but couldn't risk the revenue loss?

As Adam Smith said, the excesses of capitalism must be kept under control by government.

Matt Эллен

not by murder, then? Well, that's that plan out the window. So long as the people keep the government in check.

@MattЭллен I'm sure they've thought about it, and perhaps they will do it later. Perhaps they will block just the search engine, not all their other applications.

@MattЭллен Murder, well...when is that ever necessary? Revolution should come first.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus oh you know, a quite assassination here, a puppet ceo there

no need for revolution at all!

far cheaper all around

11:40 AM

You don't mean...robots!? Excellent!!

Matt Эллен

I was just thinking - if the internet were a sovereign state, maybe it could be run by AI

What if Someone made a virus?

Matt Эллен

well, that's what the AI(s) would help prevent

Oh, now there are several?

Matt Эллен

I mean AI as a mass noun before, or some other plausible excuse :D

11:43 AM

Of course.

I should have known.

Matt Эллен

Of course, they'd have to have an economy, by power from us, sell bandwidth to us, pay us for construction

that sort of thing

the same as any country

The AI? Or the internets?

Matt Эллен

AI. I think of the internet as a country

Really?

What government does it have?

Matt Эллен

Well, in this scenario

11:45 AM

Okay.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus it would be a meritocracy of the AIs

Perhaps Mozilla can become the AI? Or Wikipedia? But we've seen the horrible face of Wikipedia, what with those people on their donation banners...

Matt Эллен

Well, it would be interesting to have humans and AI cooperate on the ruling of the internet

By the way, I saw the article for a split second before the black page covered it.

Matt Эллен

also, you can use noscript to see the article without the blackout

11:47 AM

@MattЭллен I think the internet should be as free as possible; the limit would be if it caused considerable damage to the lives of people.

@MattЭллен Oh haha, wow that is amateurish. I use Noscript.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus I know :) that's why I suggested it.

Oh! Haha.

2012 English Wikipedia blackout

The 2012 English Wikipedia blackout is a scheduled blackout of the English Wikipedia for 24 hours on 18–19 January 2012. In place of articles, the site will show only a message opposing the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) and the PROTECT IP Act (PIPA), legislation being proposed in the United States Congress. On January 16, the blackout was announced by Wikimedia founder Jimbo Wales and Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director Sue Gardner after conducting a 72 hour poll of the editing community. The general poll followed several weeks of discussion in smaller Wikipedia fora. The date was ...

Matt Эллен

I think it's done for effect - you see the article for a moment, then it's blacked out

Yeah could be!

Matt Эллен

so the knowledge is visibly taken from you

11:49 AM

I think I will edit this page. How funny is that?

Do you see the inline bit above, by the way?

Matt Эллен

yes

@Cerberus How will you edit it?

oh, because of the black out, yeah, that's funny :D

Click the edit button? Or won't that work? Let's see...

Matt Эллен

it's semi-protected I can't edit it anonymously

Alas, I think all the edit buttons on all articles are gone.

Let's see what the American papers say.

Matt Эллен

of course, you could just read the Dutch version

11:54 AM

It's on the front pages all right, WP and NYT.

Matt Эллен

no noscript needed!

@MattЭллен Yes, but the English one is often better.

Matt Эллен

WP?

Wash. Post.

Matt Эллен

ah

11:55 AM

What do the Spanish papers say...

Matt Эллен

I was thinking, "of course WikiPedia is on the front of Wikipedia" :D

Hahaha.

No offence, but the Times decided it is not worth mention. Instead it goes for sensational, local, and sports news...

Okay I'm exaggerating a bit.

Oh I have to run...

Matt Эллен

meh, it's a News International paper, I think

Good luck without Wikipedia! Or, a good day to learn German, the second-best Wiki.

Matt Эллен

have a good run!

11:59 AM

@MattЭллен Huh?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus same corp who own Fox

The London Times, really??

That is tragic.

Why did nobody prevent that?

Matt Эллен

I will double check, but I think so

And it has deteriorated since?

Oh, what would you say is the best newspaper in England now?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus Well, that depends on your point of view. I don't read a paper, but I think the one most in line with my views would be The Guardian

liberal lefty paper, that

12:02 PM

I mean from an objective point of view: the least sensational, the best research, the most balanced.

And the best use of English.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus I don't know. It's been owned by them since I was born

@Cerberus I read New Scientist - although it's a weekly magazine, and focuses on science

@MattЭллен Wow...well, our major papers were left in great debt by a British equity firm, so the circle is round....

Matt Эллен

It is not sensationalist, has lots of good research and is balanced

@MattЭллен OK, that sounds good.

Oh, I also hear good reports on the FT?

Though there was also some scandal, not long ago...

Matt Эллен

Ah, possibly. I've not read the FT. it would have to be factual though

12:06 PM

Of course it is a bit focused on finance, but not so much as people think, or so I am told. I have read it a few times, but I don't remember much. It was OK no doubt.

Matt Эллен

being all about the markets and such

ah, I see

@Cerberus what firm was that?

Apex.

apax.com

There're really bastards.

Matt Эллен

Oh. I don't know them, but they're on the list now!

Sucked the money out of our newspapers.

Yeah, take 'em down!

My brother is researching the case for his thesis.

Matt Эллен

Oh! is he studying law?

12:14 PM

Yeah.

Matt Эллен

Always good to have a lawyer in the family, just in case ;)

And the judge that presided over the main part of the case is a friend of my uncle's...

So my brother interviewed him a few times.

Matt Эллен

cool!

@MattЭллен It's not the prestigious thing here that it is in America (I don't know about England).

Matt Эллен

Oh, I wasn't thinking about prestige, just utility :) I think solicitors and barristers are quite highly thought of here. Barristers, certainly.

but also despised

12:17 PM

Hmm...my parents are lawyers too so I'm set.

But they work at small firms.

My mother mostly does mediation and cooperative divorce.

Matt Эллен

I see, that sounds stressful

Well, less so than regular divorces. Here people actually cooperate to part in a friendly manner.

Matt Эллен

well that's good

So I recommend it for everyone. It's way cheaper too, because it is much faster, and you only pay half a lawyer.

Matt Эллен

I don't want a divorce! ;)

12:22 PM

But it's cheap!

Matt Эллен

not for me. I'd have to get married first!

Too bad, then.

Okay now I really have to go, have fun not reading Wikipedia articles!

Matt Эллен

Yeah. I guess I miss out on such treats

OK. Have fun going somewhere!

Yeah I 've been divorced five times now, each divorce even more fun than the last.

Bye!

Matt Эллен

lol

bye!

user19161

12:33 PM

@Cerberus WTF?

user19161

@MattЭллен No laughing. Divorce is a serious matter!

user19161

@Cerberus Really?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

The opposite of divorce:

user image

1:05 PM

Ewww. She married her uncle?

Doesn't anyone ever read the instructions? Wikipedia tells you how to bypass the blackout, and they say they are fine with it, and want you to do so if you need the info.

"**Is it still possible to access Wikipedia in any way?**
Yes. During the blackout, Wikipedia is accessible on mobile devices and smart phones. You can also view Wikipedia normally by disabling JavaScript in your browser, as explained on this Technical FAQ page. Our purpose here isn't to make it completely impossible for people to read Wikipedia, and it's okay for you to circumvent the blackout. We just want to make sure you see our message."

Matt Эллен

Why man read instruction? Man no need them. Man hit with club

Frig.

Matt Эллен

quite

Hi!

Matt Эллен

hello! :)

RegDwight Ѭſ道

1:13 PM

Thing is, if man no read instruction, man also no read explanation 4 blackout.

Man just go, like, um? BROKE!!!

Matt Эллен

y blackout?

*y blakout?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

wut blakout? were?

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Then man go find woman.

Damn users.

Matt Эллен

1:19 PM

especially the ones who use things

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен Worse are the ones that want things then never use them.

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 oooo, especially them too

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Dec 21 '11 at 20:11, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

Users are overrated.

Matt Эллен

an application with no users has no bugs

She emailed me last week with a semi-literate message, and I replied immediately asking for more information. She emailed me today to clarify that pretty much she just needs someone to tell her how to use the system.

user19161

1:22 PM

@MattЭллен not true

I sent her a link to the training site, and my project leader's email.

user19161

@Kitḫ ask her to rtfm

@WillHunting That's what I did, pretty much.

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ good diversion!

user19161

If she does not know what rtfm means, tell her to ctfd!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

1:23 PM

@MattЭллен Interstingly, the inverse is also true. An application with no bugs has no users.

@MattЭллен "What are the steps to accomplish this?" "I am not responsible for training; ask the guy who fucked up the launch."

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Noöne wants to use perfect software. Everyone prefers to use shit and bitch about it.

Matt Эллен

otherwise where's the fun?

user19161

I took a courageous step and removed Adobe Reader. I am now using Evince to view my PDFs.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

0

Q: "Once the client has replaced the songs" or "Once the client had replaced the songs"?

Mira is wondering what is the correct way to say: "Once the client has replaced the songs" or "Once the client had replaced the songs"? this describes an action that will take place in the future, and the question is regarding the result of this action.

RegDwight wonders why Mira talks about herself in third person.

That's a new one.

Matt Эллен

1:25 PM

indeed

is it a dupe of Robusto's master piece?

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 I wonder why RegDwight refers to himself as RegDwight.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Best explanation of SOPA/PIPA: theoatmeal.com/sopa

5

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@MattЭллен I have no idea what it's asking, so yes.

If you don't want to get closed as a dupe of Robusto, then learn to articulate yourself better than Robusto. Kthxbai.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Kthxbai is only for twitter, not EL&U high standards.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Mar 24 '11 at 14:34, by RegDwight

You talk like a liberal and your shit's all retarded.

user19161

1:32 PM

First k is wrong, then thx is wrong, then bai is wrong. Put three wrong things together and you get something very wrong.

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting If software isn't used, then what bugs does it have?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@WillHunting Kthxbai is so correct that it's even a valid keyword in a popular programming language. So put yourself in a pipe and smoke it.

user19161

@MattЭллен Bugs waiting to be uncovered by potential users.

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting but there are no users

user19161

@MattЭллен That does not mean the bug does not exist. It is a problem nonetheless.

Matt Эллен

1:34 PM

are you talking about schrodinger's user?

@WillHunting what bugs? I've not heard about any for this software that's never been used

RegDwight Ѭſ道

If a tree falls in a forest and noöne is around to hear it, can you call it a bug?

user19161

checks definition of bug

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Check harder.

user19161

A software bug is the common term used to describe an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that produces an incorrect or unexpected result, or causes it to behave in unintended ways. Most bugs arise from mistakes and errors made by people in either a program's source code or its design, and a few are caused by compilers producing incorrect code. A program that contains a large number of bugs, and/or bugs that seriously interfere with its functionality, is said to be buggy. Reports detailing bugs in a program are commonly known as bug reports, fault repor...

@WillHunting you know that a lot of us can't see that, right?

Matt Эллен

1:35 PM

how can there be a flaw in software that isn't used?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@WillHunting That's such a wishy-washy definition, it's worthy of George Bush.

"Unexpected result". Unexpected by whom?

user19161

@JSBᾶngs You can at least read the portion that appears here I think.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I, for one, expect all kinds of results.

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting just to set your mind at rest:

user19161

I would think this definition of bug does not help the discussion in any way. Case closed. Kthxbai.

Matt Эллен

1:37 PM

119

A: When is it okay to ship a product with a known bug?

It has to always be OK, because there is no such thing as bugless software.

when I answered, the word "known" wasn't in the question

user19161

@MattЭллен 119 votes for a stupid answer!

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting you have no idea how much I laughed.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@WillHunting Jealous much?

Matt Эллен

I answered badly because the question was terrible

yet, there you go

I am also awesome

user19161

Now I know what kind of stuff we get on programmers!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

1:39 PM

Oh you don't know jack. They get way worse stuff.

And then there's stuff they delete.

Don't wanna see that.

Matt Эллен

:D

@JSBᾶngs There's a workaround.

user19161

@Kitḫ At least pasting it here lets you read part of it!

@MattЭллен ur teh awesum!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

We are going in circles.

1:47 PM

Circles are nice.

Not all pointy like squares.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Circle-haired boss.

user19161

I prefer straight hair.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Others prefer queer hair.

@Kitḫ i'm sure there is, but i prefer to revel in ignorance

OH damn. Tech meeting today. Can I skip it?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

1:49 PM

YES YOU CAN!

As long as Obama is still in office.

39 mins ago, by Kitḫ

Doesn't anyone ever read the instructions? Wikipedia tells you how to bypass the blackout, and they say they are fine with it, and want you to do so if you need the info.

@Kit skip it. claim that you're doing it to protest SOPA.

Good thought. Except that I am very nearly in trouble with my boss.

@Kitḫ what part of "revel in ignorance" don't you understand?

@JSBᾶngs I am trying to sabotage your hedonistic revelry.

user19161

1:50 PM

@Kitḫ Three difficult words.

And my boss is not someone who I ever want to be in trouble with.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Kitḫ Stop it! Now people have to read your post about your post about instructions. It's getting complicateder by the minute.

@WillHunting "I am trying"?

@RegDwightѬſ道 I am here to complicate.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Kitḫ You could have stopped at "want".

user19161

I am the type to write with whom I ever want to be in trouble.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

1:52 PM

And for that, we ~~love~~ ignore you!

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ Thanks! :)

@RegDwightѬſ道 I could have, but I am not sure that's true. He's not really my type physically, but he is smart, kind, and funny. Of the choices I might be forced to make in a post-apocalyptic universe, he would not be a bad one.

@RegDwightѬſ道 Who? What?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I wouldn't take my boss with me into a post-apocalyptic universe to begin with.

That's like throwing away all the good candidates, and then voting for Obama on the sole grounds of him not being McCain.

> I just tried to discontinue a student and then I saw "Internal Error." Then it said to contact you. The child is now gone from my list of students.

Wow, thanks for the info, user.

Is this some sort of fuck-with-Kit Day or something?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Kitḫ Well if the child is now gone from the list, that's a NOREPRO.

Matt Эллен

1:55 PM

if only they'd stopped at gone the sentence would have been so much more dramatic

Indeed.

@RegDwightѬſ道 Nah, I got the error dump in an email.

user19161

@Kitḫ Just add him back.

Matt Эллен

out of spite

I didn't validate a datatype for one of my fields.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwightѬſ道 Voting for Obama on the grounds of him not being McCain is a perfectly cromulent reason

RegDwight Ѭſ道

1:56 PM

@Kitḫ Emails can be gone, too. Give it a try.

user19161

Elementary. -1+1=0.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Sure, but that's beside the point.

@RegDwightѬſ道 Mmm. I like the way you think.

I voted for Obama because he's black and he has a hot wife.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 No, delete one and you will get two more.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting What difference does it make if it's elementary, or middle, or high school? A student is a student and now the child is gone! And the field is invalid! And Obama isn't McCain!

user19161

1:58 PM

@Kitḫ I disagree with the second part.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwightѬſ道 By definition everything is beside a point, if the point exists.

Except the point itself, I guess

Matt Эллен

it's beside another point

@WillHunting You can't disagree with facts. He is actually black.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Yeah. I should have wrote "everything is beside the point except the point itself". And maybe also "nothing". If "nothing" is part of "everything".

user19161

I am getting confused. Everyone seems to be talking gibberish.

Matt Эллен

1:59 PM

no change here

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Jan '1218

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…

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