English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

00:06

Home = T + 26 hours.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@tchrist Ugh. :(

Are they sending you through Atlanta or something?

tchrist

00:37

No.

I had to overwinter in Milwaukee.

Twenty-six hours door to door.

Some folks won't get home till next week.

Phonics The Hedgehog

01:28

How's Christmas guys

Kit Z. Fox

01:49

Anyone want to help test a hat theory?

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox what needs to be done?

Kit Z. Fox

Upvote the question.

To +3.

I think.

Phonics The Hedgehog

What's a hat theory?

Mitch

Ok. Done. Now two more.

Kit Z. Fox

A hypothesis about how to get a secret hat.

Phonics The Hedgehog

01:56

Hmm... I'll gladly assist in this endeavor.

Kit Z. Fox

Woo! Hats!

Phonics The Hedgehog

@KitZ.Fox @Mitch I hope your Christmas went well

Kit Z. Fox

Yes, thank you. And yours?

Phonics The Hedgehog

My mom is quite against Christmas

"Pagan religion/holiday" and all that

my little brother is still getting a present tho

That's all it matters anyway

Mitch

Was she formerly Christian?

Phonics The Hedgehog

01:58

Nah, we're Christians, it's just that apparently Christmas was a date to celebrate a birth of Sun God or something like that.

Kit Z. Fox

Christians are pagans?

Phonics The Hedgehog

Not the actual birthdate of Jesus apparently

Kit Z. Fox

Well. It's the Mass for Christ.

That Christians plopped down on top of Yule.

Phonics The Hedgehog

Yeah, I guess. Christmas this year feels... different.

I guess I'm growing up? QQ

I don't like this feeling

Kit Z. Fox

So I would understand if she didn't want a tree or holly or presents, but it's still traditional to celebrate Jesus's birth on Dec 25th. I think the pope does, so...

Phonics The Hedgehog

01:59

@KitZ.Fox Ah, we're Puritan-ishhh...

No Pope appreciation here :P

Mitch

The pope only knows what he has been told

Kit Z. Fox

Puritan-ish. Well. They still celebrated Jesus's birth on Dec 25th. Pretty sure.

Phonics The Hedgehog

There is 1/356 chance that 25th is actually his birthdate, so yeah XD

So what kind of hat did you get?

Kit Z. Fox

I don't know yet. I'm not convinced this theory is correct.

Phonics The Hedgehog

That downvoting a post with three upvotes gives a hat, right?

Mitch

02:02

There've been so many calendar changes over the years, it's all an approximation anyway

Phonics The Hedgehog

@Mitch Yeah, who came up with the idea of 365?

Kit Z. Fox

@PhonicsTheHedgehog No, it's different.

Phonics The Hedgehog

Ah, I guess its still at +2. We need one more...

Mitch

Well they looked at the sky and sometimes 365 worked out.

With a little slippage

Every so often

Phonics The Hedgehog

We have 360 degrees... we could've had 360 days ;_;

Mitch

02:05

360 degrees because it is close to the 365 in the sky, but divisible by lots of numbers, easier to calculate with.

Guaranteed 5 days of vacation every year.

Kit Z. Fox

Too many bonus days that way.

Phonics The Hedgehog

365 is not even divisible by 7 o.o

Where is that extra day?

Mitch

Oh. Hm. Neither is 360.

7 is annoying anyway.

Phonics The Hedgehog

Apparently we are either missing a day or gaining an extra day each year?

It is a prime, so yeah

Mitch

The first really odd number

Phonics The Hedgehog

02:08

But... hmm... oh yeah, I guess so

Mitch

Gaining a quarter day every year

That's why a leap year every 4 years

Or maybe losing, depending on your perspective

Phonics The Hedgehog

02:34

@Mitch Ahh, makes sense

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

03:59

@tchrist Yikes.

That sucks.

Phonics The Hedgehog

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 How's it going m8

Mark berg

07:30

Hi is there any body

Phonics The Hedgehog

@Markberg Me. :P

Mark berg

Hi how are u

@PhonicsTheHedgehog how are u dear?

Phonics The Hedgehog

@Markberg Eh, I guess I'm fine. This break is going by pretty fast

Mark berg

What does mean this phrase?
With the supply of land for airports shrinking around the world?

@PhonicsTheHedgehog can u help me?

Phonics The Hedgehog

07:45

@Markberg Sure... without additional context I think that sentence is saying this: around the world, land spaces are being used up (by something else), leaving no rooms for additional airports to be created.

That is an odd sentence though, I'll say that. Where did you see it?

Mark berg

OK I add whole sentence - An unknown error has occurred - retry / edit / cancel
Its talk about transportation in the future
Airport take up too much space.With the supply of land for airports shrinking around the world
- An unknown error has occurred

OK I add whole sentence
Its talk about transportation in the future
Airport take up too much space.With the supply of land for airports shrinking around the world,they are going to be fewer airports and fewer plane flights

@PhonicsTheHedgehog would u please to help me one more time

Phonics The Hedgehog

08:19

@Markberg No problem. I think what the sentence is saying is this: airports take up significant amount of land, and this problem will progress to the point where in the future airport usage will become rather inconvenient. As in, people will be less incline to build more of them.

Airports take up too much land space -> people stop building airports -> fewer plane flights

Although I find that chain of logic rather suspicious, but I know nothing about logistics regarding the air trave.

@Caleb yo

Mark berg

@PhonicsTheHedgehog thank u dear

Phonics The Hedgehog

08:34

@Markberg No problem!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Markberg Please don't refer to people as "dear".

Phonics The Hedgehog

09:14

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. That's alright, I don't mind

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@PhonicsTheHedgehog But the next referent may.

Phonics The Hedgehog

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. True. I just chalked it up to his way of talking. How's your Christmas?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@PhonicsTheHedgehog Learners tend to like to use every word they learned, and they usually don't even take context and connotation into account. And thanks, but my Xmas is booooooring. :/

Phonics The Hedgehog

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. It feels different every year... Perhaps I've grown tired of it.

@MattE.Эллен yooo

Matt E. Эллен

hi

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

09:22

Hullo!

Phonics The Hedgehog

@AlexSusama Hello

AlexSusama

hi!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

09:49

Hi @Alex

Veo

10:48

Hi

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Hullo @Veo

Veo

Seven lines of hellos and hullos!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Not my fault people are shy.

Veo

Let me break the ice: which is right: 'sleep to classical music' or 'sleep under classical music'?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

And what do you want to imply?

Veo

10:51

'When I was a child, I used to sleep only under/to classical music.'

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

IMO "sleep to classical music".

Darn, I don't think what I type

Veo

:D

Except when typing with a typewriter.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

So anyway, I think it should be "to", since "under" implies a kinda more . . . \o @ter . . . a kinda more general description of the condition you're in.

-6

Q: We need to do something about newbies' answering old questions (Why would a flagged answer be deleted and my flag be declined?)

I have a few questions. I flagged an answer which looked like a spam under this question. The answer (by fadumu shafic) was later deleted (I am not sure whether it was deleted by the poster or moderator), but my flag was declined with a comment "a moderator reviewed your flag, but found no evi...

discussion

terdon

o/

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Am inclined to comment We need to do something about people loving to get suspended.

terdon

10:59

@Veo Neither. When you were a child you only slept with classical music.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

With works too.

terdon

Certainly not under. To might work but sounds strange. It implies a much more active connection between your action (sleep) and it accompaniment.

Veo

Wow

@terdon In my native language we say 'under'

terdon

@Veo Spanish?

No. Doesn't really work in Spanish, does it.

Veo

I speak Spanish, and it'd be 'dormir con musica clasica', but my native language's Armenian.

terdon

11:02

Armenian? Nice! I don't know the first thing about Armenian :)

But no, under doesn't work at all in English.

Veo

:)

Hmm okay

terdon

If you sleep under something, then that is your blanket. Or your ceiling.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

That's the thing @Veo. Spanish is not English. People better than us have failed to try to connect two languages effectively, so we shouldn't try connecting them.

Veo

Yes, yes

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@terdon Or air.

Or sky.

terdon

11:03

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Bah. We all connect them all the time. Sometimes for the better and sometimes not.

Veo

Google Books shows three results for 'with' and two for 'to'

Damkerng T.

I think to could make it sound poetic. Just my opinion, though.

Veo

Well, it's for an admission essay

terdon

> rock her to sleep to classical music

Veo

Exactly that

terdon

11:06

That's a slightly different thing. It's the rocking that's done to the music.

Veo

English is complicated

terdon

There are many things you can do to music. You dance to rock music, for example. I just personally wouldn't sleep to it since sleep is such a passive activity.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Language is complicated.

terdon

^^

Damkerng T.

Language is also flexible! :D

terdon

11:07

Though English particularly so because it seems like such a simple little language until you realize it is pure chaos and madness.

Veo

@terdon 100%

Spanish is much easier than English, IMO

terdon

@Veo Spanish is one of the easiest languages I've ever come across. Certainly the easiest I ever learned.

Veo

@terdon Yup

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

How so?

Damkerng T.

@Veo Thai could be even easier. It's easier to say something right than something wrong. For example, I think, in Thai, we can sleep with, to, in, under, and so on, music. :D

terdon

11:09

Solo tiene como 12 excepciones y se pronuncie exactamente como se escribe. Mas que fácil.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Are the tenses inflectional?

terdon

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Simple, consistent rules and straightforward spelling.

Damkerng T.

@terdon Wouldn't that make Far East languages extremely difficult?

Veo

@DamkerngT. wow, I never knew that
@terdon Si! Muy facil! Pero no tengo tiempo para los acentos

TBH it's only been a month since I've learnt Spanish

terdon

@Veo Bueno, la verdad es que yo tampoco mucho. Pero no son muy complicados. Después de un rato, los pones automáticamente.

Damkerng T.

11:12

@Veo Wow, that's impressive!

terdon

@DamkerngT. Quite possibly so. I don't know. The Easternmost language I speak is Greek.

Veo

O si!

Damkerng T.

Haha!

Veo

@DamkerngT. thanks :) Duolingo is really helpful

(jajaja)

[concerning the other topic] How does this read?
'My parents soon noticed that I only calmed down [to] the CD’s tracks. Slumbering solely [under] the mellifluous melodies of Mozart and Haydn, I didn’t consider playing a musical instrument until it was to enhance my drawing dexterity.'

terdon

@Veo Not very well, I'm afraid.

Veo

11:17

👀

terdon

> My parents soon noticed that I only calmed down with that [note: presumably, you have mentioned the specific CD earlier] CD’s tracks.

Veo

Of course

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Veo With "slumbering solely" I'd put "to", but I suck at prep. choice.

terdon

I don't really get what you're trying to say with the next question but you are clearly trying to make it overly flowery. Don't try too hard. It comes across as pretentious.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Depends on who the audience is, but I concur.

terdon

11:18

That sentence reads like a non-native speaker trying too hard.

Veo

Well the audience is the admission officers 😁

terdon

Damn. For some reason, mentioning the specific composers makes the to sound more natural to me. Odd.

Veo

'Sleep to Mozart'

Aye it does

terdon

IN any case, why would your sleeping exclusively with the music of specific composers lead to you not choosing to learn to play an instrument "until it was to enhance your drawing ability"? (that sentence doesn't really work either)

Veo

What I'm trying to say is: I grew up by listening to classical music, but I never thought of playing the violin. My mum suggested it because she'd learnt that it could enhance my creativity

terdon

11:22

Great. Then say that :)

Perhaps something like Despite years of sleeping to classical music (yes, I know I had said with), I hadn't considered learning to play a musical instrument until it occurred to me that it could enhance my drawing dexterity.

Veo

Hmmm [trying to figure it out]

I like slumbering though 😂

terdon

You shouldn't. There's a subtle difference between sleeping and slumbering. They are not completely synonymous.

Slumbering implies a deep sleep, it is often used to suggest that you are completely unaware fo what's going on around you.

It is not a more poetic version of sleeping.

Veo

Oh wow

terdon

Hmm. I found a dictionary definition that suggests it implies light sleep. That's odd, certainly not how I would use it. The main issue, however, is the second meaning:

> to be in a state of inactivity, negligence, quiescence, or calm:

Veo

Me too

slumber

Noun: slumber ‎(plural slumbers)

A very light state of sleep, almost awake.
William Shakespeare
John Dryden
(figuratively) A state of ignorance or inaction.

Verb: slumber ‎(third-person singular simple present slumbers, present participle slumbering, simple past and past participle slumbered)

(intransitive) To be in a very light state of sleep, almost awake.
(intransitive) To be inactive or negligent.
(transitive, obsolete) To stun; to stupefy.

terdon

11:29

@Veo Note a4 and b3

And yes, you can slumber in the morning. I see what they mean. However, the word is often used for its negative connotations.

Veo

Ahhh right

The thing is we got a chocolate box. There was a classical CD inside. I was a hyperactive child. Only the tracks from that CD could calm me down. I grew up loving classical music, and eventually became a very self-contained, shy, and courteous. But until I was 9, I didn't consider playing the violin....

terdon

Great. Say that :)

Don't try to overcomplicate your wording. It rarely works and most often just comes across as pretentious. Especially when you're not using your native language and can therefore miss subtle distinctions like the one we discussed above.

One of the most obvious signs of bad writers is using complex words where a simple one would suffice.

Veo

Isn't it too simple? I mean I certainly don't want to overcomplicate or be pretentious, but it needs to be admission-essay-like. When I read other essays that have worked, I see that they've used many flowery words.

terdon

I would hope that's not what got them accepted. And yes, you can use them but only if you're sure about them. Not if you just found them in a dictionary. If you are aware of their usage and connotations and can use them safely, go ahead

However, reading your sentence, both slumbering and mellifluous jumped out at me as out of place.

You could try dulcet instead of mellifluous.

tchrist

He, Watching Over Israel - Mormon Tabernacle Choir

►

Veo

11:35

Are quotations a good source for this?
(TBH I've read a lot of French, and such words aren't really showy)

tchrist

Slumber-snot is a big problem.

@terdon Dulcet tones are nice.

Veo

Google says: '(especially of sound) sweet and soothing (often used ironically).'

Ironically?

Damkerng T.

This is one of the problems I believe do exist in essay writing tests. Some test examiners seem to expect the test takers not to write in plain English.

terdon

@Veo French likes long complicated sentences and fancy words. English, less so.

It all depends on context. I can't really define precisely why those two words seemed out of place but they did. Replacing them with sleep and dulcet (which, by the way, is a nice fancy word in its own right) would improve the sentence. At least for me.

Veo

(what about Dickens?)

terdon

11:38

If @tchrist has a different opinion, listen to him.

@Veo Are you writing in the 19th century?

tchrist

As opposed to on the 19th century.

Veo

😂

Thanks for the suggestion

tchrist

@terdon Despite years of falling asleep to classical music, I never considered learning to play a musical instrument until it finally occurred to me that it could improve my hand at drawing.

terdon

There you go. falling is much better and completely sidesteps the to vs with issue.

Veo

Yep

💔 dexterity 💔

tchrist

11:43

Dexterity doesn’t really fit there.

terdon

Complicates things needlessly.

Veo

I will surely take note of your suggestions. However, it's interesting how you 'feel' if a word fits somewhere or not. (I want that skill)

tchrist

It takes years.

Decades, even.

A lifetime.

Veo

😶👐

Would you perhaps come to offer a Fiverr gig on word-check?

tchrist

¿Cómo?

Veo

11:50

Fiverr

Fiverr is a global online marketplace offering tasks and services, beginning at a cost of $5 per job performed, from which it gets its name. The site is primarily used by freelancers who use Fiverr to offer services to customers worldwide. Currently, Fiverr lists more than three million services on the site that range between $5 and $500. == History == Fiverr was founded by Shai Wininger and Micha Kaufman in 2009. Wininger came up with the concept of a marketplace that would provide a two sided platform for people to buy and sell a variety of digital services typically offered by freelanc...

tchrist

I prefer sawbucks to fins, but century notes are even better.

terdon

@Veo You have it in your native language. For other languages, it grows as you use them.

Veo

@tchrist I had to do research to understand that 😂

tchrist

@Veo That’s good, right? :)

Veo

I don't know :P

tchrist

11:54

The slang of previous generations is often unintelligible to those who didn’t grow up with it. And vice versa.

Veo

What's your generation: X, Y, or Z?

tchrist

I was born in 1963. I’ll let you work it out.

Veo

That'll be generation X. And 37 years older than me.

tchrist

Call me nono. :)

terdon

If it makes you feel any better, I was born in 1980 and also had to look up fins in that context.

tchrist

11:58

It’s a term from my grandparents’ day.

Not from my own.

Veo

Hahaha

@terdon phew!

tchrist

If you watch black-and-white movies from the 30s and 40s, you’ll hear it.

terdon

@tchrist Oh, wow. I didn't realize we had records going back so far. Chaucer, was it?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

O_O I feel like a kid now.

Dec 1997.

terdon

In that case, you should.

Veo

12:00

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. May 2000

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Or maybe 1998? I get the date wrong always.

terdon

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. You get the year you were born wrong? Seriously?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Veo Juvenile :P

@terdon Since we use Persian calendar here, ahem?

terdon

Ah, OK, fair enough then.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I wonder how much I need an article right there.

I just updated my profile page with a gazillion bullet points.

Veo

12:01

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Grizzled :P

Interesting

tchrist

Heinlein.

It was from a song.

Veo

Oh gee

That last paragraph :}

tchrist

Lazarus was humming it. I’m trying to find the year for the song. It is very old. From before my parents were born.

Veo, your English is fine. How long have you been studying it?

Veo que your English is fine. How long have you been studying it?

Veo

3 years

tchrist

What’s your first language?

Veo

12:05

Armenian

tchrist

Interesting.

terdon

Impressive.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Cool.

Veo

Lol

tchrist

If he had been one of the more obvious cases, he would have started earlier.

Like Dooch or Scandihoovian.

Veo

12:08

Hahah

My English is poor.

I just can't write a [excuse me] damn essay. I just can't write anything! 😐😒😂

tchrist

> “Substitute damn every time you're inclined to write very; your editor will delete it and the writing will be just as it should be.”

Veo

Nono (?) 😂 hahaha

(I have no editor)

What about this sentence [I am scared]: 'Who would’ve thought that a chocolate bonbonnière could be determinative in one’s life?'

If you ask what a bonbonnière is, I would say a presentable chocolate box for a specific occasion. Is there a more (...) term for this?

tchrist

12:25

@Veo It’s an Italianism that has replaced the native word for grandfather is certain parts.

terdon

@Veo What's wrong with box of chocolates?

And you don't want determinative.

Perhaps something like Who would have thought that a box of chocolates could be a defining factor in one's life.

Or Who would have thought that a box of chocolates could play such a critical role.

Kit Z. Fox

12:52

Moin.

Veo

mhmhm thxxx

tchrist

I read something on the plane yesterday I need to cite for Cerb.

@Cerberus Consider: ”Stars will flame novae for your entertainment.” —Neil Gaiman

Interesting, no?

@terdon A chocolate box is a box made of chocolate.

Not a box full of them.

terdon

@tchrist Yes. That's probably why I said a box of chocolates.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…