English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Kitḫ

17:00

What have you got against sudden spasms?

Cerberus

They destroy etymological ties instead of slowing stretching them.

Don't change mah words! They're MINES!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus But don't forget to allow for the evolution of the named thing as well as the word. Like, "phone". What is a phone? My phone is a clock, a music player, a photo taker, a text communication device, a game machine, oh yeah, and it makes calls.

I don't know the evolution of discos. But I'd hazard that they changed as much as their label did, or more.

One day "phones" will cease to be anything at all like what was traditionally a phone. But we'll still use the word.

Mr. Disappointment

@MrShinyandNew Just as always, jumping in with little context: No, you don't have a phone that is all of those things, you have a device that, among other things, is also a phone.

user19161

@MrDisappointment Long time no see!

Mr. Disappointment

And howdy, guys, by the way. :)

aedia λ

17:06

@Cerberus Aren't they rather fragile and dangerous then?

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Sure. But, as long as it is a gradual, natural process, I'm absolutely fine with it! It's just when some silly person in an office decides to change a word haphazardly that I object.

@MrDisappointment You could say that. But we'll probably be using the word phone to designate this device for some time...

aedia λ

@MrDisappointment Heya!

Cerberus

@aediaλ Who? The words? Yes, sometimes they are!

Mr. Disappointment

@Jasper Ay! And @aedia, how's things?

Cerberus

For example, the "euro" was made up in an office. We missed a great opportunity of preserving etymology there.

Mr. Disappointment

17:07

@Cerberus And I sadly can't dismiss that.

JSBᾶngs

-2

Q: What is a "shaved-ice" company?

I know what a "shaved ice" is, but how does it relate to the term "shaved-ice" company? (Word taken from here.)

Cerberus

@MrDisappointment You'd rather use a different word?

aedia λ

@Cerberus See, you can't help it. They're just an etymological timebomb.

JSBᾶngs

^ er, what's the close reason for "nothing to explain here"

user19161

@aedia I noticed you used @ in your answer. Just wanted to point out that it does not serve any pinging purpose.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

17:08

@MrDisappointment That device is called a phone. There are other devices like it which are not called phones, because they are not phone-sized.

Cerberus

@aediaλ Then I will protect the people from them with mine own body!

user19161

@JSBᾶngs gen ref

Cerberus

@JSBᾶngs NARQ?

Mr. Disappointment

@Cerberus One step in a different direction... remove the freakin' phone functionality and say pass me my device.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MrDisappointment Just call it your "handy" or "hand machine"

Like the Germans, or Chinese, do.

Cerberus

17:09

@MrDisappointment Remove the phone functionality... are you proposing that Apple roll this out in a silent update?

Mr. Disappointment

I'm not sure what size has to do with anything. In the sense we are talking, re phones, that is.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MrDisappointment If it's phone sized it's a phone. If it's larger, it's a tablet or something.

aedia λ

@Jasper I know. I just... I just don't have any better way to simply point out that I want to give a bit of credit to another answerer. It seems like the @ makes that clearer. Or something.

JSBᾶngs

@aediaλ i do the same thing

Mr. Disappointment

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I beg that you define the size of a phone.

user19161

17:10

@aediaλ Ya, I felt I had to point that out since I am the self-appointed @ educator of SE.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MrDisappointment Similar to the sizes of the things in the past that were phones, but are no longer made, because the new phones are phones + more

So, Samsung Galaxy S2 = phone, Galaxy Tab = tablet, even if they're almost identical otherwise.

Cerberus

See, the word tablet is very apt.

Mr. Disappointment

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Um, from memory phones used to be huuuuuge, then they got smaller, now they're getting bigger again. Plus, I have e-book readers the size of a 'large phone', is it a phone?

aedia λ

@Jasper I like to post a new answer if I feel that I have so much to add that it would be rude to edit it into someone else's, but if I initially wanted to make it an edit or that kind of thing, I want to mention the person. But I do appreciate your @ -ducation.

Cerberus

If you can make up a very good word, why choose a very bad word, as it is so often done?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

17:12

it's a quirk of the current technology that it probably needs 3G to be considered a "phone". so Ipod Touch is not a phone even if it's just Iphone - 3G

Cerberus

I'd say the ability to communicate by voice with other telephones makes a device a phone?

Grace Note

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I don't have 3G yet I've got a phone

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GraceNote Are you sure?

Mr. Disappointment

I even have an e-book reader with 3G! Is it a phone? Is it a... ah, forget it.

Grace Note

@MrShinyandNew安宇 This thing is ancient, so, yes

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

17:15

@MrDisappointment It might be a phone!

@GraceNote Ah, you have one of those things the dictionary lists as obs.

Grace Note

If someone tries to tell me this isn't a phone, well, I'd probably smack them with it.

user19161

@GraceNote I have an ancient phone too!

Grace Note

I believe the proper term for the advanced form has been "smartphone" for a while.

user19161

@GraceNote No, don't spoil your phone. Use your hands instead.

Grace Note

@Jasper It can take the hit

Mr. Disappointment

17:16

Just for the record, I despise phones, can't stand them; not much disgusts me as much as an incessantly ringing frakkin' phone.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GraceNote That's just a bridge word. phone, smartphone, dumbphone, etc, eventually there will only BE smartphones.

Cerberus

@MrDisappointment Mine is always on vibrate.

user19161

@MrDisappointment Phones are for communication, period.

Grace Note

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Not all phones are mobile phones

Cerberus

And I don't pick it up when I'm not in the mood or with people.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

17:17

@GraceNote for now, yes.

Mr. Disappointment

@Jasper Necessary communication. But they're used like damn messengers.

Grace Note

It seems like it would be very impractical to make a shift so that the only platform in existence is the mobile phone.

Mr. Disappointment

@Cerberus I just don't carry mine when not required.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

landlines are a dead technology though. They will be supplanted by IP phones, which are functionally identical to the IP phone tech on the mobiles, and we will converge to a new phone network where some phones are not portable, because they are built-in to desktop computers and TVs, and some are portable, but they will be the same technology on the same network (internet)

aedia λ

@Cerberus Yeah, and then when I don't have it on my person I forget to turn the ringer on, and miss my family calling me, and my mom asks why I don't answer my email or my phone for a few hours... I wish it would just know to ring when it's more than a few feet away from me. Maybe I can be implanted with a chip for that.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

17:20

Anyway a word can have more than one meaning. so "phone" is that device in my pocket, but also a thing that calls other phones. So you can turn an ipod touch into a phone if you install the right software and have a wifi connection to the internet.

Mr. Disappointment

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Wait, what?? I thought IP was already going the way of the wind. I've been waiting for something like this...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@aediaλ You could probably get an app that checks for when it's lying flat on a table and turns on the ringer

Cerberus

@MrDisappointment But you never know when you might need it...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MrDisappointment That thing has no screen, how can you play games on it? or send texts?

Bonus question: why hasn't anyone made a bluetooth "headset" that looks like a starfleet pin?

Mr. Disappointment

4 mins ago, by Jasper

@MrDisappointment Phones are for communication, period.

Cerberus

17:21

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yeah. The only problem is that we will lose both telephone and internet access if the network malfunctions, while now we have a back-up system.

Grace Note

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Valid inquiry

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus meh, if the phone network malfunctions lots of people lose internet.

Grace Note

It sounds like something ThinkGeek should already have.

aedia λ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Hmm, that's a good idea. Maybe there's one that's more customizable than that, like with hours or something. (Said device tends to live lying flat part of the workday if I need to charge it, and I don't want it ringing then either.)

Cerberus

@aediaλ I know that problem... but I don't care about being unreachable for a few hours. I don't need to be all the time. I won't hear my phone at night either.

Mr. Disappointment

17:22

Also, since the wires of that legacy system aren't going to be dug up any time soon, I don't see these phones disappearing from the household this decade. Goodness, they even make regular repairs and upgrades to said lines here in the UK.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I suppose so... but the internet appears to malfunction more often; or is that illusion?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus probably real, the phone network is super reliable, usually. But that's a historical anomaly. The internet is the future, it's where ALL the innovation is happening. When was the last time a new feature came to a landline? call-waiting? Cell phones: MMS? since then it's all internet, all the time.

aedia λ

@Cerberus I don't care so much either but I shouldn't have taught my mom how to use the internet. Now she seems to have the illusion that she can always reach me ;)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

gotta run, lunch time.

Cerberus

@aediaλ I used to have a program on my phone that would turn various functions on and off, like G3, volume, vibration, etc. etc. based on any criterion I liked, like plugging in headphones, timers, etc. But the most useful function was that I would have my phone turn silent whenever an appointment in my calendar activated, and the ringer would turn on again afterwards.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I don't know, isn't reliability something worth preserving? Unless it costs way too much...

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Bai!

@aediaλ Ouch. Better kick her off your Facebook!

aedia λ

17:28

@Cerberus Nah, I joke, but it's only for family that I even really bother staying on those things.

Cerberus

Things like Facebook?

aedia λ

Yeah and Google+.

I'm not sure how useful that's going to be.

Cerberus

I find Facebook a convenient way of contacting people whose phone numbers I don't have, and it is cool if I want to find someone old I lost contact with.

Google+?

Is that a social-network thingy too?

aedia λ

Yep!

You haven't tried it?

Cerberus

No.

aedia λ

17:31

It's like Facebook meets your google profile, and gets new words like "Circles", so you can more easily choose who to share each post with.

Cerberus

I'm not much into Facebook either. I'm sure more of the same would make me happy...

aedia λ

But then Facebook adopted that idea right after G+ launched anyway.

Cerberus

Google profile? Is that the thing that sometimes pops up when I log into Gmail?

Grace Note

Oh, and Google+ requires your real name or they reserve the right to terminate your account.

Cerberus

Isn't it the same with Facebook?

Grace Note

17:34

I have no clue.

aedia λ

@Cerberus Here's an example of a Google+ profile: Violet Blue

Cerberus

Oh, I suddenly remember reading that Google+ demands a photocopy of your passport or something.

aedia λ

Violet Blue has written about the whole name thing; she's a well-known writer who still almost got deleted on account of having a fake sounding name.

@Cerberus I think they were suggesting that as an option for verifying oneself. So I'm not sure I'm liking Google so much after this.

Cerberus

Haha stupid.

aedia λ

I do think Facebook had a real name policy but they are incredibly tolerant of pseudonyms from what I see; either they relaxed the policy or they don't actually enforce it.

Grace Note

17:40

@aediaλ Comparatively, Google+ is exceptionally intolerant of pseudonyms

aedia λ

@GraceNote I've read that and it makes me mad. I feel like I need to get started moving at least a little of my stuff away from Google but I just haven't had the time. I want to, y'know, have at least one email account on my own provider (the one I pay for), that kinda thing, but I am such a procrastinator...

Matt Эллен

17:54

I once kissed frog that was magical
For reasons that were cosmological
It said it would dress
Just like a princess
Alas changes were not phisiological

aedia λ

Can I iterate?

Matt Эллен

yes

aedia λ

I once kissed a frog: 'twere magical
The reason, it was cosmological
'E said 'e would dress
Just like a princess
Alas! The changes were not physiological

Hmm I'm still not sure about the rhythm in the first line

Matt Эллен

I guess it depends on how you read it

physiological doesn't quite fit

too many syllables

(in mine)

aedia λ

I once found a grimy old lamp
I rubbed till it gave me a cramp
Then what did appear
A little old dear
Who walked away, shouting, "you tramp!"

Matt Эллен

18:04

:D

While mowing the lawn in the spring
I thought such a wonderful thing
It's nearly the summer
So all of the stunners
Will be out wearing barely a thing

aedia λ

18:20

!!

Matt Эллен

Miranda - a vile old hag
Was assiduously bumming a fag
They said said with reproach
"You can have this old roach.
Now get lost, I am starting to gag."

Grace Note

Don't we have a limerick contest site?

Matt Эллен

ah, yes, but the limericks have to be about language, and I've entered twice already :D

It's OK - I'll start writing them elsewhere!

Grace Note

Nah, you don't have to.

I just figured that if you're going to channel that energy, you may as well submit it (if it were applicable, at least)

aedia λ

@MattЭллен I haven't yet but that's 'cause I keep thinking of non-language ones.

Matt Эллен

18:25

@aediaλ It's tricky, ain't it? Trying to tray on topic

@GraceNote I probably should though - I'm having some sort of limerick haemorrhage in my brain.

aedia λ

language is like a dalmatian
sometimes snippy like a crustacean
it's spotted with age
you've crinkled the page!
perhaps I just need a vacation

Matt Эллен

lol

aedia λ

@MattЭллен It's contagious, whatever it is.

Matt Эллен

I blame Lauren.

Luckily dinner is keeping me occupied

Grace Note

@MattЭллен Until you start mixing bellicophagery (or whatever we renamed that) with limericks.

Matt Эллен

18:36

@GraceNote oh, great, thanks ;)

F'x

@aediaλ I am immunized!

Matt Эллен

the pasta that I started eating
was having a strange sort of meeting
My stomach below
Was starting to grow
My food would not take this beating

The mushrooms and veg that then followed
Were refusing out right to be swallowed
I tried forcing them through
But they would not go
The pasta was not being mellowed

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

My sandwich was a hybrid unholy
Of evil smoked ham and baloney
In mustard 'twas doused
Then as quiet as a mouse
In my maw 'twas devour'ed quite slowly

F'x

Si les pâtes aujourd'hui sont si bonnes qu'on dit,
Je ne vois pas pourquoi l'estomac se raidit !

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

"File has changed. Save? (Yes/No/Cancel)" ... no

F'x

18:45

If the pasta for sure was a real pleasure
The chocolate cake was a cursed treasure

Matt Эллен

I had to come up with a plan
What was I? Mouse or a man?
I should not be beaten
This food must be eaten
For this rebellion I would not stand

aedia λ

The turkey and cheese and the slaw
When met by the force of my jaw
They hadn't a chance
Then they splattered my pants!
I'd not seen this fatal bread flaw

2

Matt Эллен

I decided that I would eat slowly
My speed had been my true folly
The morale of the food
Would be done for good
In the end my meal was quit jolly

aedia λ

But my plan to conquer, so great
It was not to be spoiled by fate!
To the rescue, the fork
I looked like a dork
Next time, support squad: a plate

Matt Эллен

excellent!

aedia λ

18:52

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I love how you got "maw" in there and the food is so clearly on the side of evil

@MattЭллен This one's a little frightening, I imagine you eating the pasta like one of those play-doh machines where it just blurps it out

Matt Эллен

@aediaλ I had a day like that once - I tried to eat too fast and the food just came straight back up. Try not to have nightmares!

@aediaλ I enjoyed yours. I imagined your food like freedom fighters getting the upper hand, only to be crushed later by your oppressive regime!

Kitḫ

Wow.

Look what you guys did while I was gone.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I think we could make an entire website, or book, or maybe a musical, about bellicophageric limericks.

F'x

@MrShinyandNew安宇 yeah, but let's not

Kitḫ

Belicophagic. I think we need to drop the -er-

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:00

@Fx Hush, you party pooper

Kitḫ

I need a 6 or 7-letter common noun.

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ we try our best :)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kitḫ toilet

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ fridge

bakery

aedia λ

@MattЭллен Ick! That's never happened to me. I only puke for really good reasons, like being allergic to things, or being sick, or drinking too many rainbows.

Kitḫ

19:01

Bakery. I like it. That will do, thanks.

F'x

charmer
charnel
charpit
charpoy
charqui
charter
chasing
chasmal
chasmed
chasmic
chassis
chasten
chataka

Matt Эллен

you're welcome :)

Kitḫ

@Fx Which of those is common?

F'x

@Kitḫ charpoy, for one

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kitḫ heck, which are nouns?

Kitḫ

19:03

@Fx Oh, yes, of course. Silly me. :p

Matt Эллен

@aediaλ I used to get a bit self concious eating, I think, I'm not sure why else I would have to eat so slowly, but I was the slowest eater ever. The puking from eating too quickly only happened once.

Kitḫ

I actually quite like charnel.

I don't think my users could manage that though.

F'x

@MrShinyandNew安宇 charmer, charnel, charpit, charpoy are all nouns

I haven't yet checked the rest :)

Matt Эллен

as is charter

which is probably most common there

Kitḫ

chassis, too.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:04

@MattЭллен when my wife was a child, her daycare had to give her lunch 45 minutes before the other kids, and they would be finished eating and starting to nap before she was done.

Matt Эллен

oh yeah!

aedia λ

chassis

F'x

but if you want to go with bakery, let's just decide it's the International Uninnovativeness Day

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 yeah, that's what it was like for me, except I didn't get a head start :D

aedia λ

Kitḫ

19:06

@Fx It's for beta tester initial password formation. It should be the opposite of creative.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@aediaλ did a unicorn poop in your pop machine?

@Kitḫ oh, I disagree. This is your chance to SHINE

Kitḫ

Damn it. Now I've been talking so much, I forgot what numbers I used.

aedia λ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 It's not supposed to be like that?

F'x

@Kitḫ 42, how could the numbers not be 42?

Matt Эллен

@Fx very good point

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:07

@aediaλ Maybe? Who knows what weird stuff they sell wherever you are?

Matt Эллен

what would royal blue Coke taste like?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен It would taste like red coke, only bluer.

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 oh. I see... ?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Actually we have gold coke here, it's "caffeine free".

Matt Эллен

yeah, we have that, although it's very rare

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:09

strangely both Coke and Pepsi colour their caffeine free versions gold.

Matt Эллен

huh

aedia λ

We have that too.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Whenever I see it in the store I buy all the cases because my wife can't handle caffeine. And once she had a cup of coffee then breast-fed the baby and he was frickin' WIRED. Most amusing diaper-change EVER.

Grace Note

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Stores don't stock it often?

F'x

France has: red = normal, silver = diet, black = zero, marroon = caf-free, lighter marroon = diet caf-free

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:11

@GraceNote No, the only one we can easily find is the diet caffeine free. Which is silver+gold, for those keeping score at home.

aedia λ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Blech. That stuff is like ruined water.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@aediaλ well, since nobody can taste the caffeine in cola, it probably tastes like the regular diet cola. But I want the caffeine and she doesn't want the aspartame. So... we buy diet and caffeine free but not together.

aedia λ

You can feel the caffeine. Or at least, I don't think I can feel caffeine anymore so much as feel that the amount of caffeine in my bloodstream is not up to an acceptable level.

I'd rather drink black coffee than artificial sweetener, but to each his own.

drɱ65 δ

0

Q: How is X-ray capitalized?

I see in the OED and on wikipedia that 'X-ray' can be both 'x-ray' and 'X-ray'; is there a preferred version for American English?

capitalization

Everyone help close this?

It's an identical duplicate.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@aediaλ Oh, I drink black coffee too. But sometimes I want a sugary drink and not the accompanying calories. Though I'd never add artifical sweetener to anything that doesn't have it already, and in fact diet cola is pretty much the only place I tolerate it...

aedia λ

19:29

Oh, @Cerb, @Matt, @Grace, I finally did get dirt over the weekend and repotted that poor houseplant I was telling you about! And several others, too. (In case not knowing the conclusion was keeping you up at night, now you can sleep soundly.)

Matt Эллен

That's good news!

aedia λ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I've never managed to get used to the taste of any of them. People tell me sucralose is just like sugar and I think they're deluding themselves. I see the use, but many places sugar can just be avoided rather than replaced, and I prefer that too.

Grace Note

@aediaλ How did you acquire this dirt?

aedia λ

Legitimately.

Sonic The Hedgehog

Limerick contest... You guys don't stand a chance against me.

aedia λ

19:31

I wanted to buy a bigger pot for one of my plants too but they didn't have any.

Grace Note

Ahha

That's a shame

aedia λ

But I did take the plants outside and drill better drain holes in the pots before repotting them with the new soil.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@aediaλ I tried sucralose, but it's absolutely not at all anything like sugar.

Grace Note

@SonicTheHedgehog I don't see you spouting crazy limericks.

Sonic The Hedgehog

@Grace Why should I?

Grace Note

19:34

@SonicTheHedgehog Probably to back up the aforementioned claim.

Sonic The Hedgehog

@Grace Look, I don't have to be spouting everything to be good at it. Anyhow, I was only sayian.

Kitḫ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Still, it's better than aspartame.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kitḫ Not to me, I think it tastes about the same. And it's supposedly good in backing, but I couldn't make it work.

Kitḫ

But aspartame will give you brain cancer, and sucralose won't.

simchona

@SonicTheHedgehog *Saying

Sonic The Hedgehog

19:40

@Sim too bad. I meant to say it like that.

simchona

@Kitḫ I do so like my Splenda

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kitḫ I'm betting on a cure for cancer coming out before I get cancer.

simchona

@SonicTheHedgehog Sure you did.

Sonic The Hedgehog

@Sim seriously, I did. Why would I get it wrong?

simchona

0

Q: Idiom: People that boast too much

I am looking for idioms or informal/slang/colloquial expression for some people that make you think that they are able of building a skyscraper, constructing a spaceship, playing the piano better than Mozart or something very fancy that requires remarkable skills, but when it comes to practice th...

idioms expressions common-expressions colloquial

Kitḫ

19:41

@SonicTheHedgehog Because you get all the rest of them wrong unintentionally?

Grace Note

@SonicTheHedgehog Because you misspelled Saiyan?

Sonic The Hedgehog

I see. All you guys are out to intentionaly insult me.

You know, if you don't me, you could have said so.

simchona

I think you accidentally a word.

Grace Note

@SonicTheHedgehog I'm not, but you did misspell Saiyan, is all I'm saying.

Kitḫ

@SonicTheHedgehog I'm not trying to insult you. I'm just pointing out that sim has good reason to doubt your claim that you mis-spelled a word purposefully.

I'm just sayin'. You know.

simchona

19:44

@SonicTheHedgehog And I'm not intentionally trying to insult you either. But you do type fast, so I can't be sure what you're misspelling on purpose

I hope this actually does become a discussion:

2

Q: Has the incorporation of foreign phrases in English stopped?

I know English contains many words taken directly from another language - chauffeur, for example - but I am interested in foreign phrases. These are phrases you'd see in writing or spoken aloud, such as: C'est la vie Caveat emptor Hasta la vista Have there been any recent foreign language add...

phrases

z7sg Ѫ

19:59

@simchona I am going to downvote practically all those answers!

simchona

@z7sgѪ Why?

z7sg Ѫ

@simchona Because he asked for an idiom to describe an excessive boaster not the act of boasting excessively.

simchona

@z7sgѪ Very true. Does mine still work?

z7sg Ѫ

Am I being a pedant? These multiple-answer questions aren't a great fit for this format, I mean it's interesting and on-topic but I think we should be a little strict about what is a suitable answer.

simchona

As in, the answer should actually answer the question?

z7sg Ѫ

20:03

@simchona Hmm probably not! :) I think I'll just wait and see if the OP reacts to my comment first.

simchona

That's not being a pedant to me

z7sg Ѫ

@simchona Well yeah it should actually answer it.

Grace Note

@z7sgѪ Aren't fit for the format?

z7sg Ѫ

@GraceNote There are multiple correct answers. I suppose it's not a problem really. The asker can choose his favourite.

Grace Note

@z7sgѪ That's fine as long as they're all answers. That's why we allow more than one answer to be posted, after all.

Remember, anyone who tries to tell you "A question can't exist unless there is only a single concrete and definitive answer" should probably be hit with a frying pan made of fire.

z7sg Ѫ

20:08

@GraceNote Not a single one but the scope must be limited. I think my point here is just that most answers have ventured a bit beyond the scope of the question.

simchona

Huh. Where'd Sonic go?

aedia λ

Did you know that Unicode includes mahjong tiles? I did not.

Grace Note

@z7sgѪ That makes them either simply incorrect, or otherwise ill answers. Which is rather fine for downvoting the former, after all.

Gender neutral pronouns such as "zie" and "zir" or whathaveyou - do those count as "English"?

brilliant

20:23

@aediaλ It's like common knowledge here in Taiwan.

aedia λ

@brilliant I had no idea so many lovely things were in Unicode. I feel like I've been living under a rock.

brilliant

Is Unicode still being developed? I mean are things gradually still being added to it or it's a "closed canon" (using biblical terms)?

aedia λ

@GraceNote Uh, it depends. Most of the ones you're thinking of were probably invented for English but not everybody would consider them "good" English.

Grace Note

@aediaλ Would they be considered non-English for the purposes of violating the general Stack Exchange principle of "These are English sites"?

aedia λ

@brilliant I think it's being added to a bit. It's got places for expansion, I think.

brilliant

20:31

@aediaλ Actually, do you know how big is Unicode? I mean, how many places does it have in total?

aedia λ

@GraceNote I don't see why, as long as the person who uses them is willing to explain them as you might do with a loanword or particular technical term.

If it's being used to confuse someone then I see how it would violate that principle.

Grace Note

It's a subject of contention right now.

Matt Эллен

@GraceNote Jez wants everyone to use thon

I'm not sure he's an authority, though

Grace Note

Don't think Jez is an issue here.

aedia λ

@brilliant I don't know exactly... perhaps the Wikipedia article says?

Unicode

Unicode is a computing industry standard for the consistent encoding, representation and handling of text expressed in most of the world's writing systems. Developed in conjunction with the Universal Character Set standard and published in book form as The Unicode Standard, the latest version of Unicode consists of a repertoire of more than 109,000 characters covering 93 scripts, a set of code charts for visual reference, an encoding methodology and set of standard character encodings, an enumeration of character properties such as upper and lower case, a set of reference data computer f...

@brilliant I was perusing the code charts on the main Unicode site, which has a lot more info about each version of Unicode

@GraceNote I wouldn't say "it's not English". I would say, it's nonstandard English, for many speakers of many varieties of English, and it's reasonable to make edits to change nonstandard language so that it's more easily understood.

Grace Note

20:46

@aediaλ Thanks!

aedia λ

We do it all the time, here, for example, even when something someone's written may be perfectly sensible in New York City or Pennsylvania or in Indian English; if enough other speakers are having trouble with it and the utterance itself isn't the question, we'd make some edits.

Grace Note

Very sensible and... there's totally an adjective I want to use that I can't think of.

aedia λ

@GraceNote Uhh... something that means keeping the focus on the important bit and not getting distracted? Non-bikesheddifyingly awesome?

Grace Note

Actually I was thinking more "acting in concern for those who have to read this stuff"

aedia λ

Ah. Charitable towards one's reader? Don't mistake that for real concern. It's half self-interest: I don't like dealing with support calls. I like them to understand things the first time around.

Grace Note

20:57

Oh, I know that feeling.

brilliant

I see its main plane (number 0) goes from 0000 to FFFF, which is 16X16X16X16 = 65536 places.
Its planes 1 through 15 go from 10000 to FFFFF, which is 16X16X16X16X16 = 1048576 places.
Its last plane (number 16) could stretch from 10000 to FFFFFF (as far as I can see, even one forth of it is not occupied yet), which is 16X16X16X16X16X16 = 16777216.
Now summing it all up: 65536 + 1048576 + 16777216 = 17891328, which is more than 17 and a half millions!
Shortly put, that’s damn a lot! :)

aedia λ

@brilliant Huzzah! That's... big.

brilliant

@aediaλ Considering that all possible Chinese characters (both modern and ancient) don’t exceed the limit of 80 thousand, you could tell Unicode still has a lot of empty places that its developers don’t know what to stuff with :)

aedia λ

We'll have to invent more languages.

With really pretty characters that they'll just feel compelled to add immediately.

brilliant

@aediaλ :) :) :)

Cerberus

22:15

@aediaλ looks up with red, bloodshot eyes and fatigue-shaken paws, and says in a creaking voice: No, dear, it didn't keep me awake at all, or hardly so. Well done! Did you buy the dirt?

aedia λ

22:28

@Cerberus I bought lots of dirt!

pats you on the head and makes you a restorative cup of tea

also a pillow

perhaps you'll need more than one pillow after that ordeal

Cerberus

Lovely!

I didn't know you did modelling for pillows.

Did they paint you white specially for the job?

simchona

@aediaλ Oooo cute

aedia λ

@Cerberus Powdered sugar coating.

user19161

@sim So have you figured out Cerb's name yet?

simchona

@Jasper Nope.

aedia λ

22:43

@Jasper It's Κέρβερος, silly. He thinks he can hide with this modern spelling...

2

user19161

@aediaλ Well, I only know he reveals a lot of things when he is drunk, not that I try to trick him.

simchona

Hi @waiwai933

Cerberus

@aediaλ Delicious!

simchona

@aedia, you missed photo time last night

Cerberus

@Jasper Do I?

user19161

22:46

@simchona Are you going to do it again?

simchona

@Jasper Do you want me to?

aedia λ

@simchona I know... I skimmed the transcript and it was utterly nonsensical

Cerberus

So you were taking advantage of me, eh...

user19161

@simchona It's up to you!

simchona

@Jasper You're so cute.

user19161

22:48

@aediaλ A lot of things were removed you see.

aedia λ

I, uh, gathered that.

user19161

@Cerberus No, I don't do that kind of thing.

Cerberus

Wise.

user19161

@Cerberus This is a weird comment. Actually, I just meant I try not to trick people, there was no hidden meaning!

aedia λ

Less semantics. More photos!

simchona

22:52

@aediaλ You first.

Well, I guess you went first.

aedia λ

The avocado is even worse off now. I am a bad plant parent.

user19161

@aediaλ I see the unicorn now.

simchona

I think @jasper needs a more recent photo

Cerberus

@Jasper I was just blurting out something at random!

@aediaλ Oooh I missed it!

Could you please, please...

simchona

@Cerberus I see what your type is

You dogs and your unicorns

Cerberus

22:55

@aediaλ Lovely!

@simchona I love all kinds of animals! Unicorns, cats, biebers...

user19161

@Cerberus Very deep meaning!

aedia λ

@Cerberus :)

Cerberus

woof

user19161

@simchona I'm afraid I have no recent photo of myself to show you now.

aedia λ

It's about a year old but I don't take self-portraits with the plants very often.

user19161

22:58

In fact I have none at all.

simchona

@Jasper Awww :[

user19161

@simchona Was that what you meant, one of myself, or sth else?

aedia λ

@Jasper You haven't a camera either?

simchona

@Jasper one of you

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…