English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

00:00

OK.

Jasper Loy

Anyway, how are you and Mario?

I have been talking to someone on SE recently, but I am not sure if it is a Maria or not yet.

Hey @dam is your place still under military rule?

Cerberus

I have just come back from his house.

Jasper Loy

Ah, after making a baby? LOL.

Cerberus

I think you need to be cautious about "Mariae" on SE: they are unlikely to be here and available and interested.

Tons of babies.

Jasper Loy

@Cerberus Yes, thanks. No harm trying though. Nothing to lose, since I have nothing to begin with.

Cerberus

00:03

Well, you don't want to come across as weird or invasive, do you?

Jasper Loy

Nope, but it is OK with this Maria. There is no weird feeling, I am very sure.

Cerberus

I wouldn't be so sure...

Damkerng T.

@JasperLoy No political matters, please. :-)

Jasper Loy

Anyway, I feel very good these days. I think I really can recover in a year or so.

3

@DamkerngT. Oh, that is just a simple question, but never mind. =)

Damkerng T.

@JasperLoy That sounds really great!

Jasper Loy

00:06

I have lost too many years due to mental illness. If not I might have won the Fields medal by now, lol.

Damkerng T.

@JasperLoy I just want to be able to hang around here for long. =)

Jasper Loy

@DamkerngT. OK. I guess we both live in very restrictive countries.

I am now 70 kg, targeting to reach 65 kg by the end of the year. Will do lots of running in Nov and Dec.

Actually, my weight is alright already, I am not really fat or anything.

Cerberus

@JasperLoy Great!!

That's worth a star.

Yeah, 70 is not that much!

Jasper Loy

A star means that it will indeed come to pass. Great!

@cerberus What kind of things do you hear about my country in your country? Good or bad?

Cerberus

Mixed.

Highly developed economy, great hospitals, good biological and medical research.

Jasper Loy

00:13

OK. My dissatisfaction with this country has a lot to do with my life experiences here.

Cerberus

Draconian punishments for petty misdemeanours, very invasive government surveillance, moderate censorship, semi-democratic, half-modern cultural values.

Jasper Loy

All seem true, lol.

Cerberus

OK.

Robusto

01:19

You could easily say "Stephano gets Trinculo and Caliban drunk." And good luck with your paper on The Tempest. — Robusto 32 secs ago

Cerberus

01:34

+1

Here is a Kickstarter project that has already got 7700% of the money it was aiming at: kickstarter.com/projects/augustgermar/…

A small, plug-and-play TOR router.

You plug it in, connect to it, and all your traffic is now automatically going through TOR.

It is trending towards getting 59,000% of its goal.

Their campaign only started 3 days ago.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yay, all your traffic goes through tor, thus making your internet really really slow.

Does it also forward data for other tor users, thus killing your data cap?

Cerberus

02:25

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Not that slow.

And you can use it only when you need it, it is pocketable.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Data cap? It has nothing to do with mobile data.

Matt Эллен

07:20

@Cerberus I don't think Mr. S. & N. was talking about mobile data

medica

07:35

@MattЭллен - got a sec?

Matt Эллен

hi! yes

medica

Hi. :-)

This kid needs a pants-down spanking.

-1

Q: Should you capitalize mom or dad when you say, Susie's mom and dad?

How will I know this? Can someone help me before Friday?

capitalization

see comments

Matt Эллен

understood. I will look into it :)

medica

He's been here for 9 hours and is obnoxious, posting a plethora of poor answers, and is resistant to correction.

Thanks.

Matt Эллен

08:02

@medica Hopefuly the comments Andrew and I have left will be enough to curb his unpleasant behaviour. If not, we'll take further action. He's on our radar. His answers seem to be hit and miss, but hopefully the voting will sort that out :D

Ice Boy

08:42

good approach^

Jasper Loy

10:56

@medica Sometimes, I feel you worry too much about specific users here, lol.

Ice Boy

@JasperLoy and you don't?

lol

Jasper Loy

@IceBoy Well, yes, I know you know I hate X, LOL.

Ice Boy

@JasperLoy I know "hate" is a self-destructive emotion.

Jasper Loy

10 stars on the wall, miracle.

Ice Boy

congrats lol

medica

11:34

@JasperLoy - You're right, I probably take things too much to heart. You have to take into account, though, that I'm a professional worrier. The better I am at it (up to a point), the better care I give. :-)

Johan Larsson

11:48

@Jasper do you feel like taking your OCD for a spin?

Jasper Loy

@JohanLarsson What do you mean?

Johan Larsson

I could use some help with a thing, it is not finished yet.

I'm generating unit classes and could use a pair of extra eyes to read the names etc.

Jasper Loy

Haha, well, I am not good at proofreading, because I have not studied Huddleston and Pullum's CGEL yet.

Johan Larsson

#Warning: tedious stuff :)

Jasper Loy

@JohanLarsson Hmm better not then, I don't want too much stress now.

Johan Larsson

11:50

ok np :)

but it would be very relaxing :)

Matt Эллен

12:11

СТОИ! ЗАХОДЗІЧЬ ЗА ЛІНІЮ НЕБЯСПЕЧНА!

what language is this?

google translate thinks Belarusian

but in Egnlish it is meant to mean "DANGER! DO NOT CROSS THIS LINE!"

I could have mistranscribed the cryllic

1

Q: "cross this line" versus "cross the line"

This is written on a railroad platform: Is the English text OK? Or "cross the line" is better? Or both are equally correct?

articles

possibly Montenegrin given where the asker is from

not an option in google translate

Jasper Loy

I did not know that Rick Santorum opposes porn.

Matt Эллен

he's generally a jerk. Rick Santorum?

Jasper Loy

@matt I think I should send you an email about the illegal thing I told you about. It still bothers me a lot.

Andrew Leach

@MattЭллен Possibly. Just describe it as Cyrillic :-)

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy feel free!

@AndrewLeach yeah, probably a good idea :D

Matt Эллен

12:37

ЗАХОДЗІЧЬ transliterated is ZACHODZIČ́ in belarusian, but ZACHODZIČ́ is a Polish word meaning "To go down, to set"

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Mobile isn't the only thing that has data caps. I have a 120GB cap on my cable internet. Around here that's considered a high cap. You have to pay more to get larger caps. "Unlimited" might not even be offered.

Mitch

@medica looking at all his answers and comments as of this moment, he sounds quite reasonable. I'm guessing a lot of untoward language has been edited out or deleted?

user116848

Few moments ago I couldn't open any SE chat! I don't know why.

user116848

Some glitch I bet.

Jasper Loy

@matt I have emailed you, LOL.

Matt Эллен

12:51

OK

user116848

@JasperLoy nice gravatar of superman!

Jasper Loy

@Arrowfar Yes. I am Superman, and sometimes I want to save the world.

user116848

haha I know.

Jasper Loy

Ubuntu Mate 14.10 will be out next Thu. I am very excited. It might be the distro I stick to for the rest of my life, LOL.

Mitch

@MattЭллен НЕБЯСПЕЧНА is 'Danger' (from luck with google translate)

Matt Эллен

12:54

thanks!

Mitch

@JasperLoy Euclid 3.16 was out in 300 BC.

Johan Larsson

Matt are you still on VB6?

Mitch

@MattЭллен I can't figure out what 'stoi!' is or what 'zachodzich' is.

Matt Эллен

@Mitch it's all greek to me!

Mitch

maybe 'stoi' is formal for 'Oi, mate!'

@MattЭллен tries greek

Matt Эллен

12:58

in Polish, GT says STOI! -> STOPPED!

Mitch

as roman 'stoi' or as cyrillic 'СТОИ!'

Matt Эллен

@JohanLarsson no. I haven't used vb for years (excluding vba)

Johan Larsson

but VS 2003 or what it was

Matt Эллен

@Mitch romani.

Mitch

@JohanLarsson I thought VB was being phased out?

Johan Larsson

12:59

yeah I think so too

Mitch

What does MS expect to replace it?

Johan Larsson

ok I need a word in engrish

Have a type for fractions {Percent, Promille PartsPerMillion} is Fraction a good name?

Mitch

how about 'calumny'?

would that work?

Johan Larsson

dunno what it means

I suspect a tarp

Mitch

me neither but you asked for a word so I gave one.

Johan Larsson

13:00

yeah

Mitch

so is that an enum type?

Johan Larsson

similar or nah on second thought

Matt Эллен

@JohanLarsson yeah, fraction is probably OK. I can't think of a better word right now

Mitch

but you only have three kinds of that enum, the ones you just gave?

Johan Larsson

It is a type so I can do var percentValue = Fraction.FromPercent(25);

I'm obsession about making the compiler do the work

Don't trust doubles

Mitch

13:02

I'd say to be more accurate it would be FractionFormat. (because your examples are how you display a fraction)

Johan Larsson

ok, not sure about the Format suffix

feels a bit like smurf naming or what it's called

The namespace is Gu.Units

do you write C# Mitch?

If I have {Percent, Promille PartsPerMillion} what would /1 be called?

Robusto

1

Q: Someone who is a combo of a liar, an exaggerater, and have a tendency to construct stories

Is there a term for such a person? Background: Someone who is a pathological liar, an overt exaggerator. He would want to have center stage, makes up stories to capture people's interest, and applies his stated qualities in positive as well as negative interactions. Such a person, I believe bo...

single-word-requests pejorative-language

Bang.

terdon

@Robusto Enjoying your gold tag are'ya?

Robusto

It's a necessary evil that I endure. I wouldn't call it enjoyment.

terdon

I know the feeling :). I migrated a question to Super User the other day, only to discover that it was a duplicate. Mortified at my lack of forethought, I cast a close vote and lo! I had a gold badge so closed it immediately. Good fun.

I wonder if using the phrase overt exaggerator makes you one by definition.

Robusto

13:16

It is the most hyperbolic construction ever.

Jasper Loy

It is very interesting that there are parables and parabolas, and hyperboles and hyperbolas.

Robusto

All trees have boles, but only the largest have hyperboles.

Jasper Loy

All men have evil, but some are much more evil than others.

Ice Boy

True that^

terdon

All trees have weevils but some more than others.

Matt Эллен

13:31

All stack exchanges have weasles, but some have more weasles than others

Jasper Loy

@matt Other than my mum, you are the only person I have told so far about that plan, lol. I will share with some other friends too in the coming months.

Matt Эллен

I haven't read it yet :D

but thanks for confiding in me

username901345

Supposing you were a vagabond, summer is, if at times uncomfortably hot, never hostile to your vitality if you are sufficiently sheltered from the sun's over-passionate light frequently enough, while, on the other hand, you can never escape winter's deathly breath anywhere, every nook and corner suffused with her impartial, dour heartlessness.

Mitch

@JohanLarsson So to confirm, you have a set with three things {percent, promille, ppm} and you want to add a fourth thing something like '/1' to that set? Do you wnat a name for the set or for the individual item '/1'?

@JohanLarsson java

username901345

is that sentence correct?

@Mitch

Mitch

13:46

There is probably a technically correct parsing, but it is very much a garden path from the start. Also, run-on sentence.

username901345

i see...so grammaticality is OK..

I was uncertain about the tense.

Mitch

"Suppose you were a vagabond. Summer is, if at times..." is infinitely more understandable.

It is so convoluted as to be opaque.

username901345

but combining the two clauses like in my case is also possible grammatically?

Mitch

oh...let me check.

tenses of which words? 'were', 'hostile' 'are' 'can' 'suffused'?

username901345

supposing, is subjective but after that it is simple present

this pattern

Mitch

13:50

subjunctive?

username901345

this shift

yeah

Mitch

I suppose. I'm not a writer, but you need to cut up the long sentence and unmix the multiple metaphors ('deathly', 'breath', 'dour' 'heartless')

Robusto

Fuck Subversion. Another thurrble merge conflict to deal with.

username901345

so grammatically ok to you? but stylistically bad?

Robusto

"Fuck Subversion" is grammatically OK.

username901345

13:56

what? Robusto, I am talking about my sentence up there

terdon

@Robusto It is stylistically bad though.

username901345

terdon, what did you think?

Robusto

@terdon Subversion is bad in many ways, not just stylistically.

Matt Эллен

+1

terdon

@username901345 I agree with Mitch. The sentence may well be grammatically correct but it is pompous, hard to parse and too long. English and long sentences rarely work well together. I also don't like the were at the beginning. I would be inclined to consider it mixing tenses. At the very least, change to supposing you are or change is to summer would be. Ideally, split it into multiple sentences and tone back the metaphors.

username901345

13:59

i see

thank you. I aspired to Faulknarian prose there.

but utterly failed, i guess

Faulker is pompous and known for run-on sentences, but won the Nobel Prize

terdon

@username901345 Obama won the peace prize while being commander in chief of a country involved in two wars of expansion. Kissinger won the peace prize for FFS. I'm not sure a Nobel prize can be taken as indicative anymore :)

That said, there is pomposity and pomposity. As a non native, I would suggest you stick to the basics for a while. It is very hard to do pompous well in a foreign language. Even one you speak well.

username901345

i see.

thanks for your insight

you write?

terdon

@username901345 Not for fun, no. I write scientific papers.

username901345

wow. you are an academic?

people here are all intellectuals!

Robusto

@terdon Pomposity can be an indicator of non-native-speaker status sometimes.

username901345

14:08

i see.

"...while, on the other hand,...." this pattern is grammatical?

Matt Эллен

yes

username901345

thanks

that will cost you 5 dollars, if that.

does this mean, "that will cost you less than 5 dollars?"

is that the implication?

Matt Эллен

14:24

it means "that will cost you a maximum of five dollars"

there is an implication that it less is likely

username901345

thanks you

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 @MattЭллен Oh, right, some countries have caps on immobile Internet.

But surely, when you are using such a TOR router, privacy is more important to you than increased data usage. You would probably not be using it every day.

Johan Larsson

@Mitch yeah, did not see your ping before now

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:43

@Cerberus It's one thing to use a TOR router occaisionally. It's another thing to have a plug-and-play appliance that proxies all your internet. You can't forget to unplug it, or else your data cap will be blown.

So it appears that the Nexus 6 will do away with the discount pricing that the older Nexii had.

Matt Эллен

also nexus 4 will get the next android update

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yeah! and the 2012 N7!

I'm surprised

Matt Эллен

me too!

good news

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I was disappointed in the past by Google's short update lifespan for their devices. 18 months from product launch.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Stop it!!

growls

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:47

teehee

Cerberus

@MattЭллен They have learned from their mistake with the Galaxy Nexus, presumably.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Took them long enough

Matt Эллен

maybe they figure that now they're the dominant player in the tablet space, they can give out more free stuff

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

They made the same mistake with the Nexii S and One

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 If you buy a TOR router, you are in the group that really values its privacy. You will be careful or willing to take that (in my opinion, small) risk.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I cannot even read this line, let alone reply to it.

@MattЭллен Hmm how do you mean?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:48

@Cerberus "small" risk of blowing your data cap? It's not a small risk. I almost always reach 90% of the cap.

Cerberus

Then what do you do on it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I work from home, and I download TV shows.

watch youtube

things like that.

Cerberus

You can always configure the router to exclude Netflix traffix from TOR, if that's what you're using.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus well, before they were trying to get the major share and now they have it, so they can expend resources in keeping it by making sure that older devices aren't swapped out for something new, which may or may not be android based

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus That would help with the speed of Netflix, but not with the router routing other people's traffic through my node.

Cerberus

14:50

I have no caps. But I wouldn't know how to get to 120GB!

@MattЭллен Hmm but why couldn't they expend resources before, to keep people on Android who were on an old Galaxy Nexus?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But surely the traffic wouldn't increase that much?

Do you know?

username901345

How you are like the Devil, that you love hatred! Is this correct?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus their direction was toward getting new users not keeping old ones

username901345

to mean you are so like Devil!

Matt Эллен

now google is established, it's not a hot new thing

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Why not?

username901345

14:52

coz you love hared

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus because when yoyu're new you don't need to try to keep people interested

username901345

@Matt

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Tor works by routing all the traffic through other tor nodes. That's why it's slow: if it goes through YOUR node, and you have asymmetric UL/DL speeds (most people do) then the max throughput is your upload speed.

Cerberus

@username901345 Mmm I guess it is not wrong. But without an "oh" at the beginning, people will be puzzled by your word order at first.

@MattЭллен Why not? I might have switched to Apple...

username901345

O, how you are like the Devil, that you love Hatred!

Matt Эллен

14:54

@Cerberus lol. because newer things are inherently more interesting.

username901345

Does this mean, "you are the same as the Devil, coz you love hatred?"

@Cerbus

Cerberus

Yes.

username901345

thanks

Cerberus

I'm not sure it is stylistically perfect, but it works.

@MattЭллен Umm...

I just want an Apple.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus okay I just checked. My average usage is actually 90GB/month. But I don't even have Netflix. I can't afford to let anyone else's traffic flow through my connection.

Matt Эллен

14:56

@Cerberus sure you do. and the pope's a bear!

Cerberus

No more stupid updates from stupid Google, well, then I'll shell out €1000 for an inferior phone that at least has an Apple icon!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus you WILL at least get updates then. Apple is the best at putting out OS updates to past generations of phones.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Do you have any information on how much traffic people have who use TOR all the time but are otherwise normal users?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's what I'm saying, I want Apple and nothing else.

username901345

try VPN

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus no. But based on my understanding of how it works, it could be a lot.

username901345

14:57

much saffer

never do internt at work

if you do, use VPN

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I have never heard of this problem—but then again I don't know anyone who has a traffic cap.

@username901345 Or use a hardware TOR router.

username901345

but that is not available on the iPhone

Cerberus

Look.

Nothing is available on the Iphone. But you still have to have it.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…