English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2014-08-10 (page 1 of 3)

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12:00 AM

@Andrew I feel like if people want a prescriptivist answer in black and white that admits no nuance and just produces the answer that the test-giver wants, then that question is better asked on ELL than on ELU. Or at least, better answered. The answer I gave on real/really is suitable for linguists and native speakers, but might cause an ELL student to get an answer marked “wrong” on their test.

@AndrewLeach Heh, and I thought you were talking to me!

It’s pheasant season again:

0

A: When does one append "-ly"?

Adverbs versus Adverbs TLDR: The word real is a modifier which like very works as an intensifier. Just like very, real can function not only as an adjective but also as a special kind of “adverb”. As an adverb, it can only intensify other modifiers: it does not intensify verbs. To compare...

All the COCA collations, more than the OED definitions, are what really convinced me that one couldn’t just give a right–wrong answer on that one. There are just too many places where people use real as an adverb.

That said, I would bet you 10:1 I would never do so in formal writing outside of reported speech. I could even search my publications, but I strongly suspect my hunch will pan out.

Pineapples mostly just want the answer that will not get marked wrong on their TOEFL exams.

Which has nothing to do with linguists, just with test-taking.

It isn’t a shibboleth for me in speech. I could see myself saying that I hoped we could have lunch together RSN.

And nobody things that RSN means realLY soon now. It means real soon now, without an -ly on the end.

I don't know if this is a class-marker now, or a region marker, or both. They talk about southern English versus Scotland at one point.

Here it is more of a class marker, I should say, than a regional one.

12:47 AM

Ok, I have decided the guy is too misguided for help here.

0

Q: When does one append "-ly"?

I am trying to understand the difference between adjectives that end in ‑ly compared with adjectives that do not end end in ‑ly. For example (the ones I would have chosen are bold): A tactical position / a tactically position A tactical good position / a tactically good position (good ...

adjectives adverbs suffixes part-of-speech derivational-morphology

In fact, he doesn’t seem to understand that adverbs exist.

1 hour later…

1:53 AM

@tchrist So, did you get the job?

@Mahnax Yep!!

@tchrist Fantastic!

I'm so happy to hear that.

When do/did you start?

Very much so.

Start on the 25th.

Great! Any relocation required? I know you had to fly somewhere for an interview, but I hope you get to work from home or at a more local office.

No, no relocation.

But I do have to spend my first week at their Pittsburgh office.

1:56 AM

That's awesome. Congrats!

@tchrist A nice little vacation :-)

Kinda.

Mostly filled with worry about a job.

Worry?

You worry about how you are going to pay the bills.

Well, I suppose so.

But you're employed now, and hopefully they're paying you something close to what you deserve to earn.

Wait till you have a house and a car and a phone bill and a heating/cooling bill and a gas bill and property taxes and an internet bill and repair bill and health-care bills and . . . it just goes on forever and ever.

Plus 2.25 children and 3.67 pets.

The last kid has a budding career as a quartermaster waiting for him.

1:59 AM

Yeah, things really add up, I guess.

It is nutso.

Then there is car insurance.

I'm excited for my year-long Taste of Real Life.

And home insurance.

Ah yes, insurance. The all-time favourite of the working world.

And none of those ever help when thing actually go wrong.

2:00 AM

That's when you dust of the stacks of bills that you keep under the mattress.

…Right?

Maybe I'm doing banking wrong.

People tried that in Europe, and the idiots actually invalidated the old currency.

That was incredibly stupid.

Every single scrap of script or specie ever issued by the United States government is as valid today as it was the day it was created.

Countries that throw away old currency really screw people over. It is wrong.

Sure, the grocers might not have to accept it, but the banks should.

I still have some Finnish marks from the pre-Euro days.

This is the kind of things that banana republics like Argentina do.

So the world doesn’t trust them: nor should they.

I remember reading a story of an old woman in I think it was Italy who missed the trade-in by a very short period, and they refused to give her one red cent.

This is evil.

That's ridiculous.

It says that your government cannot be trusted.

Yes, she lost over $100k US.

Of course, it it had been American money, then it would have still been good.

Even if it had been printed in 1800.

What the heck Europe is thinking, I don't understand. But they messed up. And people suffered.

2:06 AM

I hope they don't do it again.

Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.

History shall repeat itself, of course. You'd hope that we'd learn, though.

Imagine if a £50 note had a 10-year expiration date. If it expires, it’s lost money.

Sounds like a great way for Europe to reduce debt. Just have a time-to-live field on every note issued.

Nobody would trust them. Nor should.

And nobody over there thought there was anything wrong with this nonsense.

Well, except for the poor Italian woman.

I wonder if she ever got her money.

It must have made the news if you've heard of it, as it should have.

How could she get her money? The law is clear. They made a rule, she didn’t follow the rule. So she loses. Gotta love these countries with Roman/Napoleonic Law instead of English Common Law. Mercy is out of the hands of the judges. They just do what the rules say they have to do.

Brutal.

If they did that here, very very bad things might happen.

No one would tolerate it.

2:14 AM

Huh. Poor woman, that's a real shame.

I don’t mean to be a raving euroskeptic, but you can see why there are people in Britain who want no part of that sort of nonsense.

Yes, I can understand that.

I’m in Wisconsin right now, appreciating the fireflies.

Oh, nice. Visiting someone?

Kinda. Family reunion to spread my father’s ashes at his parents’ farm, now owned by my cousin. Hardly a happy time, I’m afraid.

It was his dying request.

2:20 AM

I'm happy it was granted, then. Hopefully your family can use this as a bonding experience and take something positive from it.

I walked the old homestead lost in memories. Very hard.

I’m also doped up because I have an excuciatingly torn meniscus that needs serious work on, but I can't see that doctor till Tuesday when I get back. The combination was exhausting. I need a wheelchair at the airport.

So I am not in optimal conditional for coping.

I was glad to the family could all be together.

Opiates make me incapable of getting quality sleep.

They keep me awake.

I don't know why. It has something to do with certain kinds of reverse wiring. I am not neurotypical.

But if I must choose "can't sleep because of pain" or "can't sleep because of pain meds", by the time 2am rolls around, I know which one I keep ending up choosing.

I did get some sleep last night, finally sleeping with the brace on.

Owie.

That way when I turn in my sleep I don't wake up in pain.

Right.

I think it is an injury I took on July 1st coming down from above timberline. Fell hard on both knees.

2:25 AM

My mom has a torn muscle in her back, or something. She's been going to physio, but still shouldn't be bending over much.

Not sure. The doc wouldn't tell me what the MRI said, just that it was out of her league and I had to see a knee specialist.

@tchrist Oh dear, falling on knees like that really doesn't sound nice.

I really wish you could catch a break.

Not when it is coming downhill and landing on solid rock.

Crunch. Yuck.

The heel of my dominant hand caught enough of it that I thought it was broken, but it wasn't. Had to drive home with the hand held up out the sunroof. Turned big and black and blue.

My kitties aren’t used to being alone.

2:28 AM

Who's watching them?

My boarder came home after work at 10:30 and found Lorin sleeping alone on my bed forlorn.

@tchrist Aww :(

I make him put them inside before he leaves for work.

Poor things. They miss you.

He just texted me. They are both in and inside playing.

They do.

2:29 AM

And you miss them too, I bet.

Of course.

I have my grandparents’ immense Maine coon here.

He’s at least 20 pounds.

Too big for lapcat.

Try to get him to sleep with me but the bed is only so big.

Hehe, that's cute.

But get this: Lorin’s tail is wider. Lorin has hair on his tail at least 3" long, so when he fluffs it, it is huge.

But the Maine coon has a triple-coat.

Made for winter.

Lorin has only a double coat. Randy a single.

Maine coons are like Norwegian forest cats.

I can't imagine trying to swim with a triple coat.

You’re in good company. Most cats have a hard time imagining themselves swimming at all, jaguars excepted.

2:36 AM

I don't like swimming, and I'm not a cat, so I guess I needn't worry.

Oh, drat. Here all along I was sure you were a cat.

My old cat would swim sometimes. We had a nasty little pond that she jumped into a few times.

@tchrist miaows

coughs

Sorry about that, folks.

A firefly just landed on my bed.

I've never even seen a firefly, and here you are getting them to come to your bed.

Everybody’s a pussy at heart.

I have a lifetime of finding utterly unexpected things in my bed.

2:37 AM

user image

user image

That kitty has a round face.

I really like that type of cat.

And does not want to open his eyes.

Such a cute, squishy face.

I should scan in pix of the Maine coon. I have new ones of the boys, too.

2:39 AM

Aw, yeah. I'd like to see them sometime.

Thing with the coon is I need something else in the frame to give perspective.

@tchrist Take a selfie with it!

looks for a spare elephant

God, it's like I'm drunk. What kind of typist am I?

Selkies (also spelled silkies, selchies; Irish/Scottish Gaelic: selchidh, Scots: selkie fowk) are mythological creatures found in Scottish, Irish, and Faroese folklore. Similar creatures are described in the Icelandic traditions. The word derives from earlier Scots selich, (from Old English seolh meaning seal). Selkies are said to live as seals in the sea but shed their skin to become human on land. The legend is apparently most common in Orkney and Shetland and is very similar to those of swan maidens. == Legends == Male selkies are described as being very handsome in their human form, and having...

Am not allowed to drink. It is highly counter-indicated on this much painkiller.

2:41 AM

@tchrist Oh, too bad.

Plus it would just make me maudlin. I’ve wept enough today.

I'm starting to get excited to turn 18, because then I can start to try some interesting things. There's a craft brewery in town that seems really nice.

Oh that’s right, they don’t make you wait till you’re 21 there to have sex.

Yep.

I was one of the last ones grandfathered in to 18.

I kinda hated alcohol though, so it didn’t matter.

2:42 AM

How old do you have to be to drive over there?

Didn’t really “learn to drink” till I was living in Spain at 20–21.

Well, I learned after I got my Masters at 23.

They let other idiots drive at 16, learners at 15.5.

Gosh I might as well be drunk.

Because every meal came with a glass of dry red wine there, included.

Hmm.

It varies state-to-state, I suppose.

Here in Alberta I started driving with an adult supervisor at fourteen, then alone at sixteen.

Oh we have a big moon tonight.

No, does not vary.

Used to.

The feds greenmailed everybody into 21.

They would not pay for federal highway maintenance unless we agreed.

Oh, no, I mean driving.

Sorry.

Not alcohol.

I am pretty sure it is 16 everywhere.

2:47 AM

Driver's license in the United States

In the United States, driver's licenses are issued by each individual state and the territories (including Washington, D.C.), rather than the federal government because of the political concept of federalism. Drivers are normally required to obtain a license from their state of residence and all states recognize each other's licenses for temporary visitors subject to normal age requirements. A state may also suspend an individual's driving privilege within its borders for traffic violations. Many states share a common system of license classes, with some exceptions, and commercial license classes...

In some cases it is 16.5.

> Hardship licenses for minors are driver's licenses that are restricted to drivers between 14 and 15, but sometimes up to 18, years old who need to drive to and from home and school due to serious hardships, i.e. the driver's family has financial or medical problems; the driver needs to get to work or school and has no other practical way of getting to work or school.

Weird.

Yeah, I've never heard of those before.

Interesting idea.

The provisional thing is odd too. I had one for about a week. I got one at age 23 in Wisconsin, drove to Texas for my job, got a Texas licence, and because I was 23 they automatically upgraded me.

Since most Texans had been driving like a decade by then. :)

Haha.

> The minimum age to obtain a restricted driver's license in the United States varies from 14 years, three months in South Dakota to as high as 17 in New Jersey.

2:51 AM

Silly South Dakota.

I have a few things to wrap up before bed tonight, so I'm going to take my leave now.

> These licenses restrict certain driving privileges, such as whether the new driver may carry passengers and if so how many, as well as setting a curfew for young drivers to be off the roads. For example, Utah drivers who are under 18 may not have other people outside the family in the car without a licensed driver 21 or older present for the first six months with a license.

I hope you sleep a little better tonight and have a swift recovery.

Good night.

> Unlike in some states of Australia and some provinces of Canada, however, graduated licensing laws do not require lowered speed limits, displaying of L and P plates, restrictions on towing a trailer or boat, or prohibitions on highway driving or operating high performance cars.

Goodnight, Tom. Talk to you later!

I must sleep too. Or try.

2:52 AM

I had a four hour nap today—sleep to spare. I'll send some your way.

But yes, goodnight.

thanks

3:23 AM

3

A: What is the difference between the suffixes -ize and -ify

Courtesy of @DanBron, here's what it says in Word Formation in English, with some translation: -ify This suffix attaches to three kinds of base word: 1. monosyllabic words 2. words stressed on the final syllable 3. words stressed on the next-to-last syllable that end in unstressed ...

2 hours later…

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

4:59 AM

@cerb. you're still up.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hello.

Yes, I couldn't sleep.

Even though I only had a few hours of sleep last night.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

shakes head.

I tried from 4 to 7.

Didn't work.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

isn't it 7 there now?

time to get up

make breakfast

take a shower

face the day

Yes, it is 7 now.

But 0 hours of sleep is not a good idea.

I got about 3 hours last night. And not good hours.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

5:03 AM

if you get up now, you'll be tired at 11pm

My body doesn't work like most bodies.

I am dead tired.

Have been all day and night. But no sleep.

And it's not stress.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

maybe you should talk to a doctor

I need sleeping pills and fixed bed time, but, you know.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

sleeping pills are dangerous

Only if you use them all the time.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

5:05 AM

well, they are habit-forming

Not if you only use them to adjust your sleep cycle to normal.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yeah if you stop using them, you should be okay

I can sleep normally when it isn't 2+ hours before my normal bed time or my cycle is entirely deranged.

It's just the permanent jet lag.

But anyway, I wish you a good night! You're up late too.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

well, whatever. it's your life. if you had a normal sleep cycle you wouldn't be able to stay up late talking to the new world peeps.

Haha so it is.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

5:06 AM

yeah it's 1am. I'm finishing my beer and trying to decide how to sort my minifigs.

I wouldn't know you peeps the way I do now. My horizon would be terribly narrow!

Haha have fun with your minifigs and/or sleeping!

I'm going to try again now.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

good luck!

Gratias!

poof

1 hour later…

6:08 AM

@Cerberus regarding our recent conversation about the lack of votes.

I think we could just move the regulars to participate in a Week Of Generous Upvotes.

I mean, I know how it works. The more you stick around, the more you fall prey to the "Everything In Order Here" syndrome.

So when you see a good answer, but it's already upvoted and the top/only answer, you just move on.

Recently I've been consciously telling myself to just upvote, FFS.

No harm done if it's correct, and even if there's a tiny footnote you object to, you can still upvote and comment "+1 though that one tiny footnote I think I object to because X".

Full disclosure: of course the regulars themselves, including yourself and myself, might benefit from it, but seeing how most regulars including yourself and myself barely post anymore, it's not going to be an Illegal Voting Ring of Fire™.

Same for questions, by the way. If it's in coherent English with proper formatting, that alone is certainly worth something. Don't just downvote the spammers, show some love to the non-spammers.

Just don't upvote every GR question you can find (I'm looking at you, Jasper :P).

7:18 AM

0

A: What's the difference between a proverb and an idiom?

idiom is a understanding words that you tell to other people in order to make your writing or the way you speak more addictively. And a proverb is something you tell to make another person understand your point of view. bpth these can be used to make your writing more creative

Bpth?

"But perhaps"?

I don't know that one.

7:38 AM

@tchrist 2.25 children? that's 2 or 3?

@Cerberus exempli gratia

2 hours later…

9:13 AM

@WS2 Yeah. Um. That might warrant a follow-up question in its own right. Meanwhile, for the sake of everyone's sanity, I am not going to comment in any way shape or form on anything Dubya ever said. You can always ping me in our chat, though, for a full-fledged tirade. — RegDwigнt ♦ 13 mins ago

Bring in new regulars!

@nosmoking let's settle for three children of which you have smoked one away.

2 hours later…

11:01 AM

Guys

Skittles are so good

isn't it?

11:20 AM

not so good for health

@RegDwigнt prenatal smoking gives a baby with smaller bones

I guess postnatal exposure continues the thing

that's why I count as 0.75

When I weighed 54kg I counted as 0.50 even

0

Q: What is the trick behind the use of modal verbs in English?

I am an intermediate level English learner. I studied a lot about the use of modal verbs. Could you please elaborate me the use of modal verbs, mainly in the past and past passive condition?

Too broad.

11:45 AM

not good for which part of your body in particular?

what is a better name for a health trainer than "Drew Manning"?

11:58 AM

Maybe, Chuck Norris? It depends on what you mean by "health trainer" :-)

12:17 PM

After Peyton Manning's performance against the Seahawks' defense in the Superbowl; I wouldn't think that name would be a big selling point :D

12:52 PM

Today's Listening | Electronic / Chillout (Mixsets Day 10)

ty sir

1 hour later…

2:07 PM

@Robusto I have devised a cure for the American oligarchy’s election-money inequity. Candidates can either accept public campaign/electioneering funds or not. If they accept public funding, they cannot spend anything more than that. If they opt out of the public limit and spend “their own money” instead, then that money is pre-taxed at 50%, with all moneys so gleaned going to the opposition. That way somebody who spends a billion of his own money cannot dwarf someone without those means.

Plus we get rid of the Citizens United abomination.

2:43 PM

Limerick Machine: There once was a person with scabies Who just now contracted the rabies The disease ridden fool W…

posted on August 10, 2014 by sgdi

There once was a person with scabies Who just now contracted the rabies The disease ridden fool Was sat on a mule Endangering hundreds of babies

@StackExchange gross

Please don't touch

2:58 PM

"Each pair of opposite sides is parallel" is grammatically unambiguous?

"Each pair of opposite sides is parallel to each other" is better than the previous one?

3:23 PM

@tchrist Like all good ideas in politics, I see a dim future for this.

What is public funding? Tax money?

Even all sensible ideas.

@JohanLarsson Basically, yeah.

What about donations?

Those don't matter compared to super-PAC money.

!!wiki Citizens United

I see we have a manual transmission today. So be it.

All of the sirs of you, PLEASE HELP ME, I am making some of my the many mistakes and URGENTMOST must make my resumy have not few of them of me. Which one of these is righter and which both them are wronger? I NEED TO KNOW RIGHT OF NOW WHICH DIFFERENCES THESE MAKES OF ME!

3:34 PM

Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission

Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, 558 U.S. ___ (2010), (Docket No. 08-205), is a US corporate law and constitutional law case. The United States Supreme Court held that the First Amendment prohibits the government from restricting political independent expenditures by corporations, associations, or labor unions. In the case, the conservative lobbying group Citizens United wanted to air a film critical of Hillary Clinton and to advertise the film during television broadcasts in apparent violation of the 2002 Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act (commonly known as the McCain–Feingold Act...

     1A: all mistakes
     2A: all confusion
     3A: all my mistakes
     4A: all the mistakes
     5A: all my confusion
     6A: all the confusion
     7A: all of my mistakes
     8A: all of the mistakes
     9A: all of my confusion
    10A: all of the confusion
    11A: all mistakes of mine
    12A: all confusion of mine
    13A: all of the mistakes of mine
    14A: all of the confusion of mine

     1B: both mistakes
     2B: both my mistakes
     3B: both the mistakes
     4B: both of my mistakes

@tchrist There are no sirs of me. I am not a round table.

Why you no fix me? I had must get this job of immediately.

I want a-single-tag for this perpetual buggered beggary from the asskers, and a single canonical answer for all of the them.

I feel like most of these have to be coming from much of Orientals or some other language family that is bereft of partitives or premodifiers. Oh, and I forgot a lot of and lots of, which would be L and M.

@Robusto The it is cheaper to have someone give you your own money than to pay 50% in taxes.

user116848

Hi

user116848

3:46 PM

So the funny thing thing is I just found out that there is no dislike button in facebook unlike Youtube, SE etc. (since I never use facebook) :D

user116848

I thought there was

@Arrowfar Facebook is more for personal interactions, adding a dislike button would serve no purpose except to provide a pressure point for arguments.

user116848

I see. But then there is dislike option in Youtube which leads to many bickering I suppose. But 'dislike' option is good in a sense I reckon :D

     1L: a lot of the confusion is
     2L: lots of the confusion is
     3L: a lot of confusion is
     4L: lots of confusion is
     5L: a lot of my confusion is
     6L: lots of my confusion is
     7L: a lot of the mistake is
     8L: a lot of the mistakes are
     9L: lots of the mistakes are
    10L: a lot of mistakes are
    11L: lots of mistakes are
    12L: a lot of my mistake is
    13L: a lot of my mistakes are
    14L: lots of my mistakes are

your mistakes beggar belief

I beggared myself reading those mistakes

just training my beggaring vocabulary

3:58 PM

Which ones?

All of the mistakes?

Some the mistakes?

Both mistakes?

@tchrist nah just training myself :)

@tchrist All of them, but they are no longer countable

user116848

@tchrist What are you writing about mistakes? I don't get it.

probably it's from a funny post

25 mins ago, by tchrist

All of the sirs of you, PLEASE HELP ME, I am making some of my the many mistakes and URGENTMOST must make my resumy have not few of them of me. Which one of these is righter and which both them are wronger? I NEED TO KNOW RIGHT OF NOW WHICH DIFFERENCES THESE MAKES OF ME!

@Arrowfar That would perforce be confusion, not mistakes.

user116848

I see

4:00 PM

I’m sure it already has no few of them. :)

the use of capitalized bold words is very convincing

user116848

@tchrist So it is about your resume? But you are superb in almost every language, so why ask the users?

@tchrist Can I send you my resume, for advices

(I need your email)

Email is about as procreative as shemales are. Nothing but RealMale™ has any hope of scoring a hole in one.

user116848

Is SE only 4 years old?

user116848

4:14 PM

Because I don't see any user more than 4 years old?

129

Q: Why doesn't the percentage width child in absolutely positioned parent work?

I have an absolutely positioned div containing several children, one of which is a relatively positioned div. When I use a percentage-based width on the child div, it collapses to 0 width on IE7, but not on Firefox or Safari. If I use pixel width, it works. If the parent is relatively positione...

html css css3 internet-explorer-7

> asked Jul 31 '08 at 22:08

4:49 PM

PLEASE SPAM-FLAG THIS

5:07 PM

user image

@nosmoking Gratias ago tibi = "I thank you".

@RegDwigнt I'll try!

I think I am relatively insensitive to the All In Order syndrome.

I just don't look at many questions at all.

Only when the title happens to interest me.

I think I vote in the large majority of cases, for the best answer but also for the question if it is OK.

But I will look at more questions this week!

5:32 PM

@Cerberus ok

nods

gratie mille

Prego.

Je vous en prie.

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Aug '1410

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