English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

00:03

Seems I have about 4.6% of all the Enlightened badges on this site.

@Cerberus: Wake up and smell the coffee!

I wish the Democrats would quit emailing me with their seesaw teetering between elation and perdition. "The sky is falling! And you're not helping!" => "Wow, we're doing great! People are responding!" => "Oh NOES! Boehner blah blah!" => "You're really making a difference!"

George Capote

pesky Democrats...

Robusto

@GeorgeCapote Yes, Meta would be the place for that.

George Capote

oh? even if I'm looking for more of a discussion and not so much question/answer?

specifically, people kept picking on my use of "same meaning" in the it's and its interchangeable question. I want to explain what I mean by "same meaning" and complain that people are being ridiculous trying to dissect such a simple concept.

(with the less important question being 'why do people not understand this')

Robusto

What question?

George Capote

can I use markdown here?

this question

Robusto

00:14

Put your text in square brackets, followed by the link in parens.

[ text here ] + ( link here )

No space where the + is.

George Capote

yes, look above.

Robusto

You probably want to one-box it, though.

Sorry, just paste the link.

Duh. That will one-box it.

George Capote

dude, I put the link like 7 messages up.

Robusto

Don't get testy with me.

George Capote

^.^

in my comments, other comments, and my answer, people criticize my specific definition of "same meaning"

sure, there are many other definitions and we can philosophize about it for trillions of centuries. but in this case, I think it should be obvious what I mean.

two sentences can have the exact same meaning but be worded totally differently.

Robusto

00:18

That question is one vote away from closure.

@GeorgeCapote I think the heat death of the universe will occur sometime before that.

George Capote

I could've seen that coming. bummer; people seemed to like my answer.

I still want to discuss it, and everyone picking on "same meaning."

Robusto

Shit happens, dude. That's how we roll here.

George Capote

Yeah, I noticed.

Robusto

Plus, you're not doing that well. The other answer has 50% more votes.

George Capote

meh, I'm convinced it's because people like that guy and don't like me.

Robusto

00:21

A reasonable conjecture.

Find a better gravatar. People tend not to like hippos bellowing at them.

George Capote

so do you still think a meta question would be appropriate for me to bring up this "same meaning" issue which is driving me crazy?

nah, this is exactly what I am.

Robusto

Well, I've reached the vegetative part of my day or I'd be happy to mince meanings with you. Besides, the subject matter is not exciting to me.

George Capote

I think it's not exciting to me either. I'm just all riled up from people being annoying about it.

Robusto

Sorry, we don't open for ego-salving until 9:00 a.m. EST

George Capote

but it hurts :<

that's over twelve hours!

Robusto

00:26

Hey, it's Sunday night. Why don't you get your ego bruised on a Tuesday next time?

George Capote

I do it every day.

Robusto

That feels like carelessness.

George Capote

hence the loudmouthed hippo.

Robusto

Hippos are usually defecating wildly by this point.

George Capote

do you know a word or expression for when there's a seemingly obvious solution and you're like "ah ha! I've found it!" and then it turns out that's not at all the solution?

Robusto

00:31

Anticlimax?

George Capote

I'm very angry at everyone for the past couple years. I don't know why. I think I'm going through my terrible twos really late.

eh... yet if I get syntax error in a script, and go and find a very obvious syntax error and fix it, and then I still get syntax error... I wouldn't exactly call the obvious error an anticlimax.

Robusto

Premature celebration?

Deceptive cadence?

George Capote

ooh, I like deceptive cadence. is this used outside of music ever?

I've only heard my piano teachers say it.

Robusto

Metaphorically, sure.

Or you could call it a "flash in the pan" . . .

George Capote

I guess this scraps my plan to ask this in a question

my hippo gets bigger the more messages I post in a row. good spam incentive.

Robusto

00:36

You are an incentivore, I see.

Anyway, flash in the pan gets my vote. Pretty exactly sums up what you mean.

One word: misfire.

George Capote

all good ones. still, when there's an unexpected solution to a problem which nobody thought of and comes out of nowhere, that event has its very own fancy latin phrase exactly for it. why can't my event have one too?

Robusto

Go ask on Latin.SE. We speak English here.

George Capote

do they speak Latin there? I fear they may not understand me.

Robusto

> Never go anyplace where you're only tolerated.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@robusto so I've decided to go with the Yamaha P-105. It's a low end model but I think it will meet my needs.

George Capote

00:44

should've gone for a Casio.

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hope it does.

If you're going from no piano to that one, you should be fine.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's much cheaper than the mid range things. But it has almost all the same features.

Robusto

The pedal situation will annoy you.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

There is a pedal add on that I will buy if it does.

Robusto

Also, do you have a stand for it that is at piano-keyboard height?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

00:48

I will buy the official stand for the p105.

Robusto

Should be serviceable.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

That way I can add on the pedal board later if needed.

Robusto

*when needed

George Capote

get a nice twisty stool too. so you can spin around on it if you're at the wrong height.

I do that much more than play piano. these digital pianos are completely horrendous altogether.

Robusto

Good piano benches have height adjustment built in. Plus they're padded, which is a benefit if you spend a lot of time in front of the keyboard.

@GeorgeCapote You're not going to get a chorus of approval for that view. Not from me.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

00:50

I think I will get an adjustable rectangular bench. It will be important to be able to fit two people on two bench for helping the kids learn.

George Capote

strange combination though. why wouldn't you suggest an upright piano.

Robusto

Because you get much better quality from digital pianos in the price range. And the digital is always in tune. Always in tune.

The upright is in tune for about a week after the tuner leaves.

George Capote

they still feel and sound nothing like a piano.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

An upright piano is A) more expensive, B) cannot be played silently.

George Capote

anything with a volume control confuses me so much. how can it compare to a piano if I can adjust its "volume" with a knob?

Robusto

00:52

@GeorgeCapote I beg to differ. They have graded grand-piano hammer action. Which is something that an upright definitely does not have.

George Capote

where do I set the "volume"?

Robusto

At what sounds right. Next question?

George Capote

why does nothing sound right (to me)?

Robusto

Look, I can't solve your existential riddles. All I can do is enjoy my digital piano.

And I do. I enjoy the shit out of it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

What kinds of digital pianos have you been trying? Most of them sound pretty good.

George Capote

00:54

I can't get anything to sound anything like my real piano on this. and I've bought the most renown one.

Robusto

The sounds are sampled from concert grands. It's hard to find a digital piano that doesn't sound better than an upright.

George Capote

how can you say that? a sample played through speakers is completely different than strings in a piano.

Robusto

We used to have a spinet and my digital piano. My piano coach wanted me to use the spinet at first, until he heard and played the digital.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

So Yamaha now has acoustic+digital combo pianos, so you can switch to digital and play silently.

George Capote

with a real piano, the size and shape of the room changes the sound altogether. with this digital one, it sounds the same in any situation. isn't that proof of a fundamental difference?

Robusto

00:55

Until I get a concert grand and a full-time tuner, I'll stick with digital, tyvm.

@GeorgeCapote There's a difference, sure. But not one that matters. Sound is subjective.

George Capote

I can't take this digital stuff. drives me nuts.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@George every piano in every room sounds different. So, objectively, your digital piano will sound different from what you expect in an acoustic. But does it sound good? In my experience, they sound good enough.

Robusto

Believe me, any difference I hear is gone by the end of the first measure. I just get my head into playing and the music comes back like an old friend.

George Capote

I've a little yamaha baby grand at home, it's ludicrous to even compare. you definitely don't need to go concert sized. how big is your house anyway? a concert piano in most houses would sound crazy.

Robusto

Plus I can play it late at night without disturbing anybody.

Did I mention tuning?

George Capote

00:58

that's true—best thing about it.

man, learn to tune it yourself.

also, shouldn't go out of tune in a week; that's preposterous.

Robusto

Nah, the best thing about it is that it gives me a better piano than I could normally afford and which would fit in the space I have for it.

George Capote

a week and a half at least.

I'll give you that too. if I were financially on my own I'd probably agree with you more.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Yeah pianos ain't cheap. Even this low end digital is costly enough that I'm going to wait one or two months to fit it on my visa bill.

George Capote

what are all those funny little starred quips over to the right? >.>

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Well, gotta run. I'm interested in hearing about what model you end up getting, Rob. Cya.

Robusto

01:01

@GeorgeCapote hyperbole

George Capote

likewise.

I guess I'm satisfied with this electric piano to a certain point. it does fit in my small room and I don't bother my idiot roommates with it. it's just when I get back to a real piano every now and then I feel I have to get re-used to it… in a different way than I have to get used to different real pianos. it's the speakers on it that get to me. I shouldn't be able to control the "volume" on a piano in addition to how hard I press on the keys.

no matter what I set the knob to, it's not right to me. I can slam a brick on this digital thing—it doesn't even come close to what sound it should actually make even at max volume.

a baby grand, slamming a brick on it sounds dramatic. playing a dramatic piece sounds dramatic. on this digital one, it just seems curtailed.

then if I tiptoe on it carefully, for a nocturne or something, I have to turn the volume down for it to sound right. it feels like it's amplifying my subtlety otherwise.

I don't actually slam bricks on pianos; that was me using hyperbole, which I recently learned about.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto My birthday approacheth.

But I just bought it because I get to taste Caribbean Cask and the 17.

tchrist

02:19

He probably won’t get it.

-1

A: What are the grammatical rules for use of "these", "those", and "them"?

I think your answers on how to use "these" and "those" are incorrect. I was taught to use a noun after both these and those. EX: these apples....those apples. these and those always need a noun after them, them and they do not. One needs to always answer these_______? Or, those ______? ...

So are you saying that those are wrong? — tchrist 1 min ago

George Capote

02:38

heh.

George Capote

02:53

am I google hanging out or am I google hangouting?

I'm definitely not googling hangout.

google hangoutsing

hanging out on google?

am I being monitored by big google brother?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

03:13

@GeorgeCapote hanging out

George Capote

are we in the future enough that this is simply hanging out?

:O

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Well, it's finally possible to make video calls from anywhere. All we need is jetpacks and then we're in the future.

George Capote

if the cool hip kids get together and smoke pot virtually with video calls then that's the future to me.

Jaguar made a windshield that shows you a racing line, tracks other cars, and shows you time they're ahead of you by.

that's pretty future.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

What if they do that, but instead of video calls it's in a virtual world? Where they then go off on an adventure, killing orcs for loot?

George Capote

Jesus, I ended that sentence in a preposition.

I'm going to go shoot myself now. it's been nice.

or I'll fix it.

Jaguar made a windshield that shows you a racing line, tracks other cars, and shows you time by which they're ahead of you.

also, I tried that. it totally sucks. everyone just cheats and bothers you.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

03:29

Ending a sentence with a preposition isn't always bad.

George Capote

it was bad that time.

also whenever you try to kill the orc and loot him a guy from Korea does it first because he's better than you.

I know it's the future and people say some sentences can end in a preposition, but I just don't like them. I can always fix a sentence to not have that problem and sound fancier.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I see. That's the sort of English up with which you will not put.

George Capote

"with which I will not put up." this isn't German.

everyone always quotes Churchill at me :(

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

lol

tchrist

05:58

You know, sometimes I nearly want to +1 an Edit Summary’s text.

skullpatrol

06:10

leave a comment

overexchange

06:48

hai

Is somebody in there? I had one query

0

Q: Could this letter be more correct in terms of grammar?

For the below question, +++++++++++++++++++ You have heard that the local authority is planning to build a shopping mall in the centre of your town. You do not agree with this decision because there are already a lot of shops. Write a letter to the planning department. In your l...

overexchange

07:08

@flatronka hai

Andrew Leach

I'm sort of here, but I'm on a train, so things come and go. That question is off-topic, because it's phrased as proof-reading ("Do I need any corrections"). It should really go on our sister site, ELL, so I'll close it here, adjust it as a better fit and then migrate it over there. It may take a few hours for all of that to happen.

It also needs formatting correctly, so I'll incorporate that.

ELL may do other things with it. It's generally not a good idea to ask five questions in one go.

overexchange

@AndrewLeach ELL?

Andrew Leach

overexchange

are you migrating to ELL?

Andrew Leach

Hmm. That doesn't look great on beige. (It's a link)

overexchange

07:16

After migration, Please provide me the link of my query

Andrew Leach

I will do that. But it needs a bit of work first and I need a stable internet connection to do that. I've put it on hold to indicate that something is going to be done, which will hopefully protect it from downvotes.

overexchange

ok

Andrew Leach

In the meantime, you could sign up for that site and have a look around.

overexchange

@AndrewLeach am doing that

Andrew Leach

I think you get an inbox notification when a question is migrated, but I can add a note in chat too.

overexchange

07:23

@AndrewLeach Are you the volunteer for stackexchange? I appreciate you are working in running train.

overexchange

07:49

hai johan

Johan Larsson

hej

overexchange

@AndrewLeach What could be the title for the query you are migrating to ELL?

Andrew Leach

08:13

@overexchange Yes, the moderators and Community Managers are volunteers. Team Members are employees.

user116848

in English Language Learners, 1 min ago, by Arrowfar

I don't know why I love this saying: "Everybody loves you when you're six foot in the ground" (John Lennon)

Andrew Leach

08:39

0

Q: "They are willing" for future tense (and other queries)

For an exam answer, I was required to write a letter objecting to a planning application. I have some specific queries about it, but I've put the whole thing here for some context. The problem phrases are in bold. Dear Sir or Madam I read in local paper that local authority is planning t...

grammar

Johan Larsson

10:35

in Lounge<C++> on Stack Overflow Chat, 2 hours ago, by Mark Garcia

Yet another productivity killer: http://gameaboutsquares.com/

3

Can't get it to work but they seem to enjoy it.

skullpatrol

work is too much like, well ...work

:-)

Johan Larsson

Works with mouse, nothing happened on laptop

Pretty fun

Matt Эллен

I don't get it. there's a page with a variety of ways to share it listed, but nothing to do

Johan Larsson

10:50

the square moves if you click it

place the squares on the circles with the same color > next level

Matt Эллен

what squares? I see triangles, but I think that's just the background image

Johan Larsson

@Rob @Cerb Happy wasting

Matt Эллен

oh, it must have timed out or something

Johan Larsson

skullpatrol

:-O level 9 already!

Johan Larsson

10:56

gonna stop now I think

@MattЭллен is it working?

Matt Эллен

yeah. I'm up to level 11.

it lied about not levelling up

Johan Larsson

If the game is working you are not.

Matt Эллен

I know :(

luckily level 11 has stumped me for now

Johan Larsson

I'm stuck at 12, stuck as in have not figured out the first move yet

Matt Эллен

curses. I've figured out 11

Johan Larsson

11:04

save after 14 it seems

Robusto

11:14

@JohanLarsson Huh?

Johan Larsson

the game a couple of posts up, thought you'd like it. Maybe @Reg likes it also.

I stopped, switched to other form of wasting time

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson Hello! What am I wasting?

@tchrist Is the TLF not good enough?

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus time, check starred link

Matt Эллен

I've got to 16, but I'm going around in cricles

Johan Larsson

I failed at 14 and stopped

Matt Эллен

11:25

I've forgotten how I solved 14, so I'll have to do it all again at home :D

Johan Larsson

there was no save?

Matt Эллен

I don't transfer state from work to home

it would be saved here, except I also don't store cookies overnight

kwak

typical scumbag French administration, arrived at time for a planned interview, got in the wrong building, messed up and lost 15minutes talking to a wrong guy, then after that when I reach the right service for my 1hour interview I'm told they don't take people more than 15mn late

Cerberus

@tchrist It has the etymology of every word at the end of each article. Some articles have several pages, so you have to go to the last page. http://circe.atilf.fr/definition/premier

kwak

be careful with .fr ...

Cerberus

11:40

@JohanLarsson Quite fun!

@kwak That sounds extremely annoying!

Can you make a new appointment?

kwak

@Cerberus yes in 15 days..

it was an interview about education/formation, I was curious to have it

Cerberus

That sucks.

@JohanLarsson I have just solved no. 14...

You have to get red to its right place first.

Then you have to push yellow into the right row, but yellow should push dark blue into the same column in the same move.

Then light blue should remain in the right place where it was.

Johan Larsson

11:55

whoa, spolier. Not looking :)

Stopped playing also

Cerberus

15 and 16 were easy.

17 was doable but required a bit more trial and error, and planning.

Johan Larsson

making me wanna play again, can't play in horizontal office though.

skullpatrol

1 hour ago, by skullpatrol

work is too much like, well ...work

Johan Larsson

12:15

@Matt Useless trivia

Matt Эллен

I see, sort of

Johan Larsson

dotnetfiddle.net/v5Eljj

no need for interfaces, it duck types it

worst practice opportynity

Matt Эллен

oh!

luckily there are (well it looks like) only 30 levels

Johan Larsson

35

Matt Эллен

you've got to 35?

oh, I see. in the stats

Johan Larsson

12:26

nope, quit long ago, guy in c++ finished it

skullpatrol

after the 35th level, there is a three dimensional version :D

with infinitely many levels

Robusto

12:43

@MattЭллен Same. No time to really think about it.

Matt Эллен

12:57

I came back after lunch. now I'm stuck at 22

Mr. Alien

13:15

Can we use the word Cinch in the place of Easy?

Matt Эллен

cinch is a noun

easy is normally an adjective

so you can't directly substitute one for the other

Mr. Alien

so if I am making a software, and am using the word cinch to name it, is that fine? I want to keep a name which shows that app is very easy to use

Matt Эллен

you can rephrase to use one or the other

@Mr.Alien yes

Mr. Alien

ok great, thanks..

Matt Эллен

no probs

Johan Larsson

13:21

Want

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Are you a pilot?

Johan Larsson

No, never got started with it.

Owning a share in a plane is probably better also

Monster-bs storing it somewhere.

tchrist

@Cerberus I am trying to track down the history of le singe for a male monkey and la guenon for a female one.

Completely different forms for a he-beast and a she-beast is usually something that occurs only in farm animals or beasts of venery. But I doubt even the French routinely hunted monkeys for food.

Matt Эллен

13:45

ah yes, back when France was thick rainforest

tchrist

Or from when husbands hunted wives.

Perhaps that counts as venery, though.

Robusto

14:00

@tchrist Have you read Sir Nigel and The White Company by Conan-Doyle?

tchrist

I have not.

Robusto

You might enjoy them. I thought they were great.

What called them to mind was your mention of venery, which prompted me to think of Sir Oliver Buttesthorne schooling young Nigel on venereal terms.

Φ on it! Φ!

tchrist

fun--

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Cessna 182?

Robusto

14:26

Looks like one anyway.

Johan Larsson

I can't tell the models apart.

What models are there? 192 is one, think there is a 20??

Robusto

@JohanLarsson 170/172, 180/182, 205/6, etc.

I've flown the 172 and 182 versions.

Johan Larsson

no 192? I was pretty sure

are you a pilot?

Robusto

Cessna 195

The Cessna 190 and 195 Businessliner are a family of light single radial engine powered, conventional landing gear equipped, general aviation aircraft which were manufactured by Cessna between 1947 and 1954. The 195 model was also used by the United States Air Force, Air National Guard and Army as a light transport and utility aircraft under the designation LC-126. == Development == The Cessna 190 and 195 were Cessna's only postwar radial-engined aircraft. The first prototype flew in 1945, after the end of World War II and both the 190 and 195 entered production in 1947. The 195 was the f...

@JohanLarsson I have (had) a license to fly sailplanes. Was working on my powered license, but quit because ran out of time & money (was in high school). Also discovered girls.

Johan Larsson

14:41

do you know if the license expires after x years?

in Lounge<C++> on Stack Overflow Chat, 4 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz

so this thing

nice visualization

skullpatrol

looks like the Earth will be this solar system's next Sun

hichris123

@tchrist around?

tchrist

@hichris123 Mostly.

Doing other stuff right now, but I won’t burn my breakfast by talking to you.

hichris123

@tchrist Where's the meta post you refer to about using italics for words, and not code formatting?

(not urgent, do it whenever you have time)

tchrist

> Per http://meta.english.stackexchange.com/a/364 for the use–mention distinction, please use an italic face not a bold one. It makes the page
look too heavy otherwise, and furthermore runs counter to typographic convention both on this site and in scholarly works.

hichris123

14:54

ty

tchrist

We really need a Style Guide that collects everything in one place.

Robusto

@JohanLarsson That was decades ago.

Johan Larsson

The license stopped expiring decades ago?

Robusto

No. I don't recall since it was decades ago.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JohanLarsson most licenses expire.

You usually have to at minimum pay a fee to renew.

Robusto

15:04

I think when I got it there was no expiration date, but I could be wrong.

tchrist

@GeorgeCapote Was that really necessary?

George Capote

15:26

nope ^.^ just thought it'd be fun.

tchrist

It really isn’t a good use for comments.

George Capote

I know. sorry. am I in trouble?

tchrist

No.

I would like to delete my comment as obsolete now that the post has been edited into a readable state.

That will orphan your comment.

George Capote

word; I'll delete mine too then.

tchrist

Ok thanks.

George Capote

15:31

you are a bit of a grump though. I will stick by that.

that Pam completely flipped out on you in comments the other day :D

tchrist

Are you telling me that everybody calling me happy fun ball are being insincere? :)

Robusto

Singular and plural.

Matt Эллен

splurals

tchrist

That would be a dual form.

George Capote

well clearly.

Matt Эллен

15:37

slarulplurals

tchrist

Plurals in not an anagram of Henry Purcell.

At least, not quite.

Robusto

If you use plurals too much you can contract plurisy.

tchrist

Plurisy leads to delugional states.

George Capote

15:54

how do I get a link specifically to a comment?

never mind.

I'm a smarty.

tchrist

-1

Q: Term usage for the below meaning

Term used for "cut or removal of legs of a living thing". I saw this word in a game.. Might be dead space.. It said something about disabling the legs of creature ..

terminology

Enquiring minds want to know: how many letters does it have?

The opposite of decapitate is decaudate.

Which will kill a pollywog but leave an adult frog really pithed.

George Capote

is it reasonable to start a question asking what the meaning of "same meaning" is?

tchrist

No, that question is lame.

George Capote

or am I just going to ge my head blasted off with a rifle

tchrist

I don’t even know what they mean.

Probably.

What is dead space?

A cemetery?

A place for a blank in scrabble?

George Capote

15:58

I'm just so frustrated by these comments and would like to ask what is assumed by "two sentences having the same meaning"

I think it's a fairly damn straightforward concept. but I guess some people do not.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…