English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

medica

00:00

@tchrist actually amphetamines decrease dopamine reuptake. They are not selective, however, so have other effects as well.

KitFox

It is a CNS stimulant, but it specifically affects catecholamines, if I recall correctly.

Jasper Loy

This chat is too deep for me.

KitFox

Not all neurotransmitters.

tchrist

I see.

Cerberus

@JasperLoy I believe so.

medica

00:02

@KitFox It interferes with dopamine and norepinephring reuptake in the CNS.

Cerberus

@Cerberus:does this ping work? (no)

tchrist

@medica They make people quiet, thoughtful, and considerate.

medica

However, they also have peripheral effects.

Cerberus

@Cerberus: does this ping work? (no)

Jasper Loy

Neither does @Cerberus...

medica

00:02

@tchrist ummm....

KitFox

@medica Those are catecholamines, aren't they?

tchrist

@medica The people who need them. The rest they do different things to.

medica

they do help people to study.

Cerberus

@Cerberus : does this ping work? (no)

KitFox

It has been a while...

Cerberus

00:03

Hmm it seems I can't ping myself.

medica

@KitFox Norepi. yes

Yoichi Oishi

tchrist. They were separate trips to Spain and Portugal. In Spain we visited the place of standard menu, Madrid, Barcelona, Tredo, Cordoba, Granada, ,Seville etc. in ten days. In Portugal we stayed one month there making Lisbon as the base, stretching legs to Porto to the north and Porlimao to the south. We enjoyed trips, particulaly in wine, foods and fado in Portugal.

Cerberus

@JasperLoy Ah, you're right.

Jasper Loy

@Cerberus Right.

medica

@tchrist yes, exactly.

marantou

00:04

@JasperLoy: Why would Maria be punishable by death in your country(maybe a cultural thing....I need to understand...)

KitFox

!!wiki dopamine

Jarvis the Bot

Dopamine

Dopamine (contracted from 3,4-dihydroxyphenethylamine) is a hormone and neurotransmitter of the catecholamine and phenethylamine families that plays a number of important roles in the human brain and body. Its name derives from its chemical structure: it is an amine that is formed by removing a carboxyl group from a molecule of L-DOPA. In the brain, dopamine functions as a neurotransmitter—a chemical released by nerve cells to send signals to other nerve cells. The brain includes several distinct dopamine systems, one of which plays a major role in reward-motivated behavior. Most types of reward...

Cerberus

@JasperLoy Could you try this on me: @Cerberus: does this ping work?

KitFox

Ha. Not crazy.

Cerberus

Well...

medica

00:04

When I last studied for my boards, I took ritalin. It helped me immensely.

Jasper Loy

@marantou I am sorry, there are many meanings of Maria in this chat. I am not sure which you and tchrist were thinking of.

tchrist

@YoichiOishi The Portuguese trip must have been more enjoyable, having the time and all. The whirlwind trip to Spain would have been impossible to take everything in. Ten days is enough for one region, but not for all of them.

Jasper Loy

@medica I know it is for adhd

tchrist

@medica I’m speaking only from personal experience. And now you know another reason why I think cocaine is a stupid drug.

marantou

hmmm....too confusing indeed...It's 2:05...time to go to bed. Goodnight y'all

KitFox

00:06

Caffeine makes you sleepy too?

Robusto

@JasperLoy Lady Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea." Winston Churchill: "Madam, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."

Cerberus

@marantou Night!

medica

@KitFox I really don't consider dopamine a catecholamine. That may be a misunderstanding on my part, though. But I don't often see it classified as one in the literature either, which I read often because of my SAMHSA certification.d

@marantou nite!

tchrist

@KitFox Well, it can settle me, yes. But I do use it for the wakey-wakey in the morning just like everybody else does. It is a much rougher thing though than adderall XR, which has a much smoother effect.

Jasper Loy

@medica I won't say creepy things this time

tchrist

00:07

I am physically dependent on caffeine, and the withdrawal effects are terrible.

medica

@JasperLoy well done!

Robusto

@tchrist Adderall is too speedy for me. But I can fall asleep on methylphenidate.

medica

@tchrist for me, the effects of caffeine are worse!

Jasper Loy

I now drink about six cups of coffee a day.

tchrist

@medica Yes, exactly: the effects of caffeine are much much worse than those of dextroamphetamine or methyphenidate.

KitFox

00:09

@medica My dissertation was on dopaminergic function in parkinsonism and how it related to prefrontal executive functions, in part because of the relationship between nor-epinephrine, epinephrine, and dopamine.

medica

agreed

Mitch

@tchrist ?? what are those last two? They sound worse.

medica

@KitFox what can I say? They are all neurotransmitters. How do you classify GABA and serotonin and glutamate?

tchrist

There is some point in the per diem dosage of caffeine between 400–1000 mg at which nearly anybody starts to fall apart. Personality changes are apparent at 250 mg/day.

medica

@KitFox I don't think of them as catecholamines. I prefer to think of dopaminergic effects in the CNS.

Jasper Loy

00:10

This room has become ER, lol.

Yoichi Oishi

@tchrist and @Jarvis the Bot. I wonder how you can locate data, its copy and relevant pictures so quickly in so brief time while engaging in the chat. It's incredible, looks like a magic to me.

medica

Cylert works because it inhibits the reuptake of dopamine, most likely. Yet it is an amphetamine.

tchrist

@medica I classify gabapentin as a suicide trigger. It puts me over the deep end, and quickly.

Jasper Loy

@YoichiOishi Jarvis is not a human, it is a computer program, lol

tchrist

@JasperLoy Me, too.

medica

00:11

@tchrist I'll remember that.

tchrist

Which is a real pain, because there are very few medications for neuropathy.

medica

that's really a problem, then

tchrist

Yeah.

Robusto

@MrShiny: And here is the one I may go with.

medica

what about tricyclics, do they help? I can't remember now how long ago we were prescribing those for chronic pain.

Robusto

00:13

@YoichiOishi @tchrist sometimes seems bot-like, too, but only because he is a Perl master.

tchrist

The orthopedic MD didn’t warn me of the risk of suicidal ideations that occur in some people who take gabapentin. I was on it for about five days before I figured it out, and I was nearly at the end of my rope.

Yoichi Oishi

@Medica. By the contents of on-going chat, I assume you're medical specialist, aren't you?

tchrist

@YoichiOishi She is a physician.

medica

Yes, I'm a medical doctor.

I specialize in Family and Emergency medicine, and am also certified in Mental Illness and drug addiction treatment.

tchrist

Useful for an ER doc.

medica

00:15

very

so many people come in with mental illness. Or drug seeking behavior.

KitFox

@medica I don't remember. I think they are all monoamines.

Robusto

@Cerberus I think it's called disturbation.

KitFox

They have a different effect.

tchrist

@medica Eek, haven’t tried those for thirty years. Very much did not like the side-effects.

medica

My colleagues would pass the anxious patients to me.

tchrist

00:17

@medica That’s what I would imagine. Plus any drug abuse, including alcohol, can mimic or even trigger many other mental health issues.

Jasper Loy

@medica I am taking a tricyclic antidep.

Cerberus

@Robusto My illness?

medica

@tchrist they have a lot of side effects (dry mouth, etc).

Robusto

@Cerberus Disturbation => pinging yourself.

tchrist

@JasperLoy Why not SSRIs?

medica

00:17

@tchrist I've started some people on anti-psychots from the ER. Not many docs will do that.

Robusto

resists urge to diagnose people in chat

Jasper Loy

@tchrist Oh, I tried some and it did not really work so she changed the meds.

medica

@Robusto good move. others do so too

tchrist

@medica If someone comes in during a bout of psychosis, what else are you going to do?

Cerberus

@Robusto So pretty sick, right?

Jasper Loy

00:18

@medica I also took haloperidol and chlorpromazine before, lol.

medica

really. especially if they're non-compliant and uncommitable.

Robusto

@JasperLoy No. It's annoyance with someone you love.

tchrist

@JasperLoy For most people, an SSRI in and of itself with nothing else is seldom sufficient for serious depression.

Jasper Loy

@Robusto Wrong line.

medica

@tchrist I agree with this, with a few exceptions.

Robusto

00:19

@JasperLoy You haven't been keeping up. It's the right line.

Jasper Loy

I am now confused.

Robusto

Only now?

medica

I think they are pretty effective for OCD when taken alone...

tchrist

@medica It’s a fuzzy field. There are always exceptions. Feels more like blind alchemists tossing random things into your brain and then deciding whether anything happened.

Jasper Loy

@Robusto Ah, I think you are just trying to confuse me.

medica

00:20

@tchrist It is exactly that.

Robusto

@JasperLoy I don't have to try.

Yoichi Oishi

@Medica. I respect medical doctors. That's why you are very analytic. I'm saying this purely in praise of your profession.

tchrist

@medica I was only talking about their limited efficacy as a sole treatment for serious depression.

medica

@tchrist It is trying to alter brin chemistry which is incompletely understood to begin with.

@tchrist There is no doubt that multi drug therapy is more effective for MDD

Robusto

@YoichiOishi Yoichi-san, if you put the @ sign in front of someone's name, then type their name, the person's computer will get pinged and there will be other indicators to them that you are trying to get their attention. Like this: @YoichiOishi.

tchrist

00:22

@medica It’s the opposite of “doctor doctor it hurts when I do that”: it starts out with an “it hurts” and random things are done until it doesn’t hurt. if then.

medica

and one must always... sigh. I will be happy when more is known about depression than serotonin and dopamine.

Jasper Loy

I am still sceptical about my meds, I just take them for the sake of trying some meds.

medica

There is so much more. But even the psychiatrists are just experimenting with this or that mix until there is an effect that is best.

tchrist

@medica Exactly so. And most of these things need more than just a pill.

medica

@YoichiOishi lol, well, yes, they are.

tchrist

00:25

@JasperLoy Are you also getting therapy of one or another sort? Have you tried cognitive behavioral therapy?

medica

@tchrist and the side effect profile increases with each additional med. But, well, at least we try.

Jasper Loy

@tchrist No, I haven't, but I know you will tell me I should.

Robusto

I believe it's been clinically proven that petting a cat can lower your blood pressure and relieve anxiety.

tchrist

@JasperLoy No, I won’t. You yourself will, and already have: “. . . just for the sake of trying. . . .”

Robusto

Works for me, anyway.

medica

00:26

Psychiatrists are trying to get more CBT to be covered by insurance. I hope it goes through.

Jasper Loy

I think one can also pet a dog, lol.

medica

@Robusto It has been.

Yoichi Oishi

@Robusto. I added @, and the message instantly reached her. Thank You.

tchrist

@JasperLoy Yes, but without purring, the therapeutic effect is much more limited.

Jasper Loy

What I do is I pet myself.

tchrist

00:27

Do you purr?

Robusto

@YoichiOishi I am happy to help.

Jasper Loy

@tchrist Nope.

medica

@tchrist I was going to say that........ jasper, though.

@JasperLoy Do you have cats?

Jasper Loy

@medica Nope. I am scared of all animals.

medica

they are good "fuzz therpy"

tchrist

00:29

@JasperLoy Then it probably won’t help. Unless you are prone to orgasm-suppression depression where if you don’t get the jolt of brain-chemicals it triggers regularly, you go into a tail spin.

medica

@JasperLoy I'm sorry to hear that.

tchrist

Suppression is the wrong word. I forget the right one.

Jasper Loy

Repression?

tchrist

@JasperLoy Then try to get one smaller than you.

medica

a tiny kitten

tchrist

00:30

@JasperLoy Deprivation. Like fatigue toxins that sleep deprivation triggers, but in reverse.

I too am afraid of tigers.

And therefore keep none in my home.

medica

:)

Jasper Loy

Everyone is scared of tigers.

tchrist

That’s not true.

However, those people who aren’t don’t have a chance to stick around long enough for you to get to know them, or to pass on their genes.

Would you be afraid of the guppies in an aquarium?

Jasper Loy

No, I was exaggerating.

tchrist

Mice are very small.

Lice are even smaller.

Jasper Loy

00:33

OMG

tchrist

And very cheap to feed.

Jasper Loy

I prefer mice to lice.

tchrist

I’m glad to have helped.

You might try for guinea pigs. Please do not eat them.

Jasper Loy

OK

medica

@tchrist To a Mouse / To a Louse

tchrist

00:36

@medica On your Blouse / In your House

Jasper Loy

With your Spouse

medica

Burns vs. Seuss

tchrist

Get the Grouse / If you would Rouse

Mahnax

@tchrist Rouse does not rhyme with grouse.

medica

:) I'm no match.

Mahnax

00:38

Not where I'm from, anyhow.

tchrist

@Mahnax Raus!

No, it doesn’t.

Mahnax

I was trying to find a rhyme for grouse too.

Gauss?

Jasper Loy

Arouse

Mahnax

Nope.

medica

souse?

Jasper Loy

00:40

I am going to sleep. Who knows what I will dream of?

medica

douse?

tchrist

Feb 26 at 12:37, by tchrist

Try reciting this aloud as trochaic tetrameter, reading column-major:

  basal    cresol   eusol    guzzle   mesel    pausal   sizzle   tuzzle
  basil    cresyll  fizzle   haysel   mizzle   phrasal  snoozle  twisel
  bezel    crizzle  foozle   hazel    Mosul    pizzle   snozzle  twizzle
  bezzle   crozzle  frazzle  hazzle   mousle   puzzle   snuzzle  vasal
  bozal    dazzle   frizzle  housal   musal    quisle   sozzle   wasel
  buzzle   deasil   fusil    housel   muzzle   reesle   spousal  weasel

medica

now I'm questioning the words. Jamais vu

tchrist

Darn it, it doesn’t expand.

Try reciting this aloud as trochaic tetrameter, reading column-major:

  basal    cresol   eusol    guzzle   mesel    pausal   sizzle   tuzzle
  basil    cresyll  fizzle   haysel   mizzle   phrasal  snoozle  twisel
  bezel    crizzle  foozle   hazel    Mosul    pizzle   snozzle  twizzle
  bezzle   crozzle  frazzle  hazzle   mousle   puzzle   snuzzle  vasal
  bozal    dazzle   frizzle  housal   musal    quisle   sozzle   wasel
  buzzle   deasil   fusil    housel   muzzle   reesle   spousal  weasel

Mahnax

@medica Yes, I had that one typed. But I wasn't sure how to end a sentence with it in the form required.

tchrist

00:42

The row-major one may be easier to read.

medica

wow. good words.

@Mahnax - how are your language studies going?

tchrist

@medica If you don’t actually recite them aloud, the couplet at the end doesn’t make sense.

medica

I've been whispering them. For some reason I can't read them silently.

It's not as satisfying to read them silently.

tchrist

Each line from the row-major version is really fun to say as your mouth changes a little bit each time.

Mahnax

@medica Ehh. I've been lazy, as I guessed I'd be. I'm gonna do some Duolingo for Spanish tonight though.

medica

00:48

I think the third row is hardest to say.

@Mahnax It's hard to study a language without a kindof forced structure, isn't it?

tchrist

Not the measle sequence?

KitFox

@tchrist You want me to record that?

medica

nope. I thought that one was ok.

tchrist

@KitFox Heh.

It would be cute.

KitFox

Might be good ASMR.

I'd have to go slow though and I think that would make it less fun.

Mahnax

00:50

@medica IDK. Probably. I learned French from a teacher who was great at teaching but awful at structuring lessons and general ideas.

medica

hmm...

tchrist

@KitFox By the time you get to the ending couplet, you realize what fun you’ve had. This is hard to explain.

KitFox

There are some that I say identically.

tchrist

Yeah, I can’t bet bezel, bezzle to change.

KitFox

row-major means across the row, right?

tchrist

00:52

Yes.

medica

I am too undiciplined to just sit down and learn a language. I have to have a reason, like coursework is due, or I'm going to that country.

@tchrist I said that several times, too.

KitFox

I was going to write a story, but recording that might be more fun.

tchrist

> Basal, basil, bezel, bezzle; bozal, buzzle, casal, causal.

KitFox

Switching processors. brb

Mahnax

@medica Duolingo is structured, anyway.

tchrist

00:53

So like that.

medica

I never heard of that. Is it a book, or software?

Mahnax

@medica An online software thing. Users build the knowledge base.

medica

Is it free (embarassed to ask)

Mahnax

Yep!

duolingo.com

medica

:D

tchrist

00:54

@Mahnax I keep wanting to correct it to read DuasLinguas.

Except that’s Portuguese, not Spanish.

medica

@Mahnax cool! Thank you!

tchrist

Spanish doesn’t make dos match gender and number the way it does with uno/una/unos/unas. But Portuguese does, since it uses duos/duas.

medica

that's prettier

tchrist

Tengo dos amigos y dos amigos > Tenho dois amigos e duas amigas

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