English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

18:06

@MattEllenД I WANT THAT

Matt Ellen Д

:D

hi @JasperLoy :)

user19161

@MattEllenД Hello Matt hairstyle guide author!

Matt Ellen Д

:D

today people should wear their hair on fire!

Rebecca Chernoff

So, we gonna make a blog happen folks? (:

user19161

@kit @jsb Saw your photos of babies, very cute! Mine are still in production...

Matt Ellen Д

18:12

I think yours (and mine) are in pre-production ;)

user19161

@grace I see you have a new look today, adorable as usual!

user19161

Hey folks, let's give @reb some attention here!

Rebecca Chernoff

YEAH!

q:

Matt Ellen Д

hmmm? Did @RebeccaChernoff just sneak in?

Rebecca Chernoff

Me? No. I'd never!

Matt Ellen Д

18:15

whoa! you're in all the rooms

no sneaking there.

user19161

I am not anywhere near a linguist, so I would not write anything for the blog unless specifically solicited. So I'll wait for the rest to see what they have to say. Turn over.

JSBᾶngs

you don't have to be a linguist to be on the blog

Matt Ellen Д

i'm not a linguist @Jasper

user19161

@JSBᾶngs That was sudden!

Rebecca Chernoff

The minimum goal we like to set is 1 post a week. Obviously the more people willing to write, the less often people have to write to meet a post per week.

user19161

18:17

@MattEllenД I know, I checked out your entire website, remember? I'm good at stalking people on the internet.

Matt Ellen Д

@JasperLoy my point was more that I want to contribute to the blog, and I will if it takes off, but I'm not a linguist

Grace Note

Oh, hey @Rebecca.

Matt Ellen Д

so you shouldn't let not being a linguist put you off

Grace Note

@JasperLoy Thank you

Rebecca Chernoff

ZOMG TIS A GRACE NOTE

user19161

18:18

1 post per week, so about 50 per year. Quite a lot.

JSBᾶngs

@RebeccaChernoff grace note has been gracing us with her notability for a while now. i can't figure out why, though. i think that Reg invited her

user19161

I know the TeX one is up and running.

Matt Ellen Д

@JasperLoy but if we have 10 writers that's 5 per person a year

Rebecca Chernoff

we have quite a few blogs: blogoverflow.com

Matt Ellen Д

not really that many to deal with

user19161

18:20

Perhaps we get a linguist to kickstart the process and set a good example and style to follow...

Grace Note

@JSBᾶngs This is the most active room on the network, it's not a bad idea to make sure everything is going smooth.

JSBᾶngs

@JasperLoy it seems like nohat would be the person to do that

@GraceNote we're the most active room on the network? i knew we were awesome at something

3

user19161

So I suggest those who think they are more linguistic to start first, and then maybe I'll write something contrived when I am not fighting my inner demons too much.

JSBᾶngs

and now i know that we're awesome at incomprehensibility

user19161

@JSBᾶngs You not a linguist? I was under the impression you are.

JSBᾶngs

18:22

@JasperLoy @Matt was the one who said he's not a linguist

i have a linguistics degree but i work as a programmer in a non-linguistics field

Grace Note

@JSBᾶngs nohat seems like a strong proponent for the blog, especially as the one who brought it up as an option in the first place.

user19161

@JSBᾶngs I suppose you are sort of then i.e. at least have a degree in EL or sth related.

Cerberus

@GraceNote Yeah but is he still as committed? We'd need to ask.

user19161

We can also ask Yoichi Oishi to write about Japanese people trying to learn English.

Cerberus

Incidentally, since this site isn't mainly about linguistics, neither does the blog have to be, does it?

Matt Ellen Д

18:24

@Cerberus good question!

Grace Note

@Cerberus Yes, you would.

user19161

@Cerberus Huh?

Matt Ellen Д

I would think anything that is encompassed by the ideals of the site are allowed

Cerberus

@JasperLoy Look at the questions. How many of them concern linguistics?

Matt Ellen Д

so, a blog post about single-word-requests... ;-)

Cerberus

18:25

@MattEllenД Ugh.

Matt Ellen Д

sounds like you want to write it? @Cerberus

user19161

@cerb I volunteer you!

Cerberus

@MattEllenД Nah I am not really in the mood.

Matt Ellen Д

@Cerberus I doubt anyone will ever be!

Cerberus

I was going to write a question about the usefulness of Google and Google Ngrams for frequency and first-usage research, and post a very long answer myself.

user19161

18:27

@Cerberus You can now convert this to a blog post!

Cerberus

Yay maybe someday.

user19161

Like tmr.

Cerberus

Nah.

user19161

@jsb You wanna be the pioneer?

user19161

Your name will go down in history.

Matt Ellen Д

18:30

I wish the phrase was "up in history" that sounds much more positive.

JSBᾶngs

i can write it, so long as a 10,000 word rant counts as a blog post

Matt Ellen Д

I don't want people to look down on me through the ages

user19161

@JSBᾶngs That's a bit too long. Why not break it up into instalments?

Matt Ellen Д

end each one on a cliff hanger!

user19161

@MattEllenД Only for people to look at your hair.

JSBᾶngs

18:32

@MattEllenД this i can do

Matt Ellen Д

@JasperLoy well, yea, it would be hard to look up at my hair.

user19161

@JSBᾶngs Breaking it up will also give us a few posts already which is a good idea to get things running.

user19161

And we can also get Chaos gamer to write about Korean English.

user19161

Basically we get each X'an to write about X English.

user19161

Anyway @jsb when can we expect your first post?

JSBᾶngs

18:35

@JasperLoy let's get the blog set up first

user19161

@JSBᾶngs which is Jeff's and co's job I think.

Grace Note

We're waiting on confirming the activity level.

Which is what @Rebecca and I are doing now, kindasorta.

user19161

So it's chicken and egg.

Matt Ellen Д

I am unequivocally in

user19161

@GraceNote kindasorta is your contribution to OED.

simchona

18:37

@GraceN Do you work in NY?

Grace Note

@simchona Nope.

simchona

@GraceNote So you work for SE remotely?

Grace Note

Aye, I do

user19161

For me I would need to see some example first before saying whether I can contribute.

simchona

@GraceNote I want your job.

Grace Note

18:38

Heh, well, work on it and maybe it'll happen. Y'ain't gettin' my slot, though.

user19161

@simchona You never know.

user19161

@matt What would you write about for example?

user19161

@sim How about you?

user19161

After all, I am considered a pineapple by some...

Matt Ellen Д

@JasperLoy I want to write some articles hopefully explaining some basics of English

user19161

18:41

Though I am really a banana.

user19161

@MattEllenД That was very informative.

Matt Ellen Д

I guess that's at least 5 articles

then I'll see if i'm inspired to write more

user19161

@MattEllenД Good! That will last a month.

Matt Ellen Д

@JasperLoy well, yes, but I'm guessing the articles will be spread out over the year :D

user19161

@MattEllenД Just like the month I mentioned.

Matt Ellen Д

18:43

@JasperLoy ;p

user19161

@robusto Would you like to write a few posts for the blog?

user19161

@martha How about you writing for the blog too?

Marthaª

I will write a ~~gripe~~ blog post about the 12 days of Christmas thing, but I think it needs to be posted more topically, i.e. on December 13.

user19161

@Marthaª Good, Christmas is only four months away.

user19161

Perhaps I can write some book reviews after reading them though I don't know if that will happen. Eg my Carter and McCarthy grammar book and my Trask punctuation book.

Marthaª

18:47

I'm also trying to come up with something blog-like about some basic onomastics subject. Is there something y'all have always wondered about names?

user19161

Never hears of onomastics.

Marthaª

onomastics = fancy word for "study of names"

user19161

OK good.

Matt Ellen Д

@Marthaª why names mean things in other cultures, but British names seem to mean nothing

user19161

@MattEllenД like matt.

Matt Ellen Д

18:49

exactly

Marthaª

@MattEllenД Depends on the culture. Most names in European cultures have been around for so long that they no longer mean anything.

Cerberus

By the way, would everyone just write whatever he likes? Or would their be threads where people can vote on topics fit for a blog?

Long live Europe!

Robusto

@JasperLoy — I dunno. What range of topics are they looking for?

user19161

Long live Germany!

Matt Ellen Д

@JasperLoy my parent didn't think "Oh! Our first born son is like a gift of God, we'll call him Matthew". They just think Matthew is a nice name

Marthaª

18:50

@Cerberus I would think everyone would write what they like, but there needs to a be a review process/mechanism.

Cerberus

Most Dutch means don't mean anything unless you look them up either.

user19161

@Robusto We sort of discussing this in chat now and there was also the post on meta long ago. I don't know either.

Cerberus

@Marthaª Exactly. What if I wrote a piece on the usage of the word vagina? No doubt that wouldn't be appreciated.

Robusto

@MattEllenД — Actually, I spoke with your parents recently and that is exactly the reason they gave for naming you as they did.

Matt Ellen Д

@Robusto oh? well, that explains a lot actually...

Cerberus

18:51

I see no ribbon.

user19161

@Cerberus Are you serious?

Robusto

@Cerberus — Why stop with the word?

Matt Ellen Д

I did wonder about all those wisemen at the hospital

Marthaª

Some parents do consider the meanings of names. Problem is, they go to the baby names sites and get some meaning that probably has nothing to do with the actual origin of the name.

user19161

@Marthaª But the actual origin is also disputable.

Matt Ellen Д

18:52

@Marthaª well, that's where I get the meaning of Matthew from :D

user19161

I think the process would be: sb writes sth, then get 2 sb's to review it and edit it before it appears.

Marthaª

@JasperLoy Precisely. Which is why the meanings assigned by the baby-name sites are often utter bunk.

Cerberus

@JasperLoy Kind of. It would be an interesting linguistic topic, though I am not qualified to write it. I have discussed the same in Dutch in depth with a friend. Our conclusion was that there was no good word in Dutch that a women could use to refer to her own.

JSBᾶngs

@Cerberus what? really? i find that hard to believe

Cerberus

@JasperLoy What if the majority thinks the entire topic of my blog post is rubbish?

KitΘδς

18:53

What do you mean by "good word"?

Cerberus

@JSBᾶngs Absolutely true.

Vagina? Too clinical.

user19161

@Cerberus A blog will never be liked by everyone, or even most.

Cerberus

Kut (= cunt)? Too vulgar.

Any of the various euphemisms? Preposterous.

KitΘδς

@Cerberus So something warm and fuzzy, but empowering?

Cerberus

Men have it easy.

user19161

18:54

Let's stay on topic since Reb and Grace are trying to get this sorted now.

Cerberus

@KitΘδς You tell me!

KitΘδς

Like tuppence or cootchie?

Matt Ellen Д

Lady Garden?

KitΘδς

@MattEllenД spit take

Matt Ellen Д

Front bum...

KitΘδς

18:55

I hate "front bum."

Cerberus

@JasperLoy If 3I decided to blog on some utterly stupid topic, I don't think that would be what we want...

Matt Ellen Д

@KitΘδς it is a bit weird

Marthaª

Ooh, just thought of another possible series of blog posts: folk etymology. Find a word that sounds like it has one possible origin, but that actually has nothing to do with that. (My favorite example being the name "Strangeways".)

KitΘδς

@MattEllenД I neither sit on nor poop from my vagina.

@Marthaª That's a good topic.

Matt Ellen Д

@KitΘδς exactly, and I'm glad to hear it!

Cerberus

18:56

@KitΘδς I love front bum. We have that too in Dutch. The most ridiculous word ever, used by noöne.

user19161

I suggest sb volunteers for the first post, writes sth, post it somewhere, lets a few others vet it and then up it goes. @reb Does that sound right?

Marthaª

Ah, but post it where?

JSBᾶngs

heh. i just blogged about this problem: jsbangs.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/…

user19161

@Marthaª Maybe here?

Robusto

@Cerberus — Ben Kingsley's character uses "front bottom" in Sexy Beast — an interesting usage, considering his character.

KitΘδς

18:57

@Matt "Lady in the Garden" is a vegetarian Thai dish at a local restaurant, hence my spit take.

Cerberus

Wouldn't it be a good idea for each blog post to be a topic on meta first, so that people could vote on it? I mean, just a summary, a proposal.

Marthaª

I think our first post needs to be something about using corpuses/ngrams/how to use google.

KitΘδς

@Marthaª I second that!

Matt Ellen Д

@KitΘδς lol that could cause some embarrassing moments!

Cerberus

@Robusto Hmm I don't know that play/show/film...

KitΘδς

18:57

@Cerberus Film. Good one too.

Cerberus

Then the person proposing it would write it only if it got positive total votes.

:1600415 Yes, if the number of votes be reasonably low, like less than 4 or something.

user19161

@Cerberus +1 is very easy.

Robusto

@Cerberus — Worth checking out. One of Kingsley's most interesting performances.

Cerberus

@JasperLoy Yes, well, it is meant only as a safe-guard against really bad topics.

@Robusto OK will keep it in mind.

I have to go to the shop now. Later!

Robusto

@Cerberus Laterz.

user19161

19:00

OK so we post the topic on meta first. Then where do we post the preliminary version?

Matt Ellen Д

cya @cerb

Cerberus

Bye!

Grace Note

I look away for one minute...

Marthaª

I don't know if it's particularly useful to review topics in meta. It's the actual post that counts.

user19161

@GraceNote Huh?

Grace Note

19:01

There should be a process within the blog system for reviewing.

user19161

@Marthaª True, and if we post the post on meta it has become the blog effectively.

Matt Ellen Д

@JasperLoy maybe Grace's timing herself. Trying to see how long he can stay away

Grace Note

Gaming has one, so I assume that yours would as well. There would be drafts that can be reviewed both for spelling/grammar as well as your... topical needs.

user19161

So maybe we can discuss the topic and post the preliminary version in chat. What do you think?

Matt Ellen Д

link to, not post the whole thing!

Marthaª

19:03

If someone isn't sure about the topic they want to write about, they can ask about it here (in chat). That ought to be enough of a sanity check. The real review/quality assurance needs to happen with the writing itself.

Grace Note

@MattEllenД No, just sorta commenting (while not actually commenting) on what happened in the short time that I was out.

Marthaª

@GraceNote Ah, ok. So that problem is solved.

user19161

@GraceNote Is that process up and running?

Grace Note

@JasperLoy Ask @FallenAngelEyes. She'd know better than I since she's one of the reviewers on Gaming.

FallenAngelEyes

What who what.

Robusto

19:05

One thing I won't do is develop a topic to be voted on. Life is too damn short.

Matt Ellen Д

@FallenAngelEyes blogs, you, reviewing

user19161

@GraceNote Ah if it has been done for gaming then we just do the same thing here. Just let us know how the system works and we can write straightaway.

Matt Ellen Д

@Robusto I agree

Marthaª

@FallenAngelEyes How does the blog work? Can people review posts before they're published for all to see?

FallenAngelEyes

@Marthaª Oh, yes, of course!

We usually do at least one pass before something is cleared for publishing.

I try to catch spelling/grammar stuff and also suggest stuff like formatting improvements and/or spicing up articles a photo or two, the like.

user19161

19:06

@FallenAngelEyes OK then we'll do the same thing for EL. You can write sth too!

FallenAngelEyes

Wordpress lets you save as a draft before you publish.

So you can do that, and then anyone (anyone who has admin rights at least) can review, edit, and eventually publish it.

user19161

OK @grace once the system is up and running maybe you can post sth on meta and tell us how it works then we can start writing the drafts there. Case closed.

Marthaª

Why do I always have to leave right when chat is getting interesting? Hmph.

TTYL.

Matt Ellen Д

cya @Martha :)

Grace Note

Later @Martha

But you'll be a staple of the blog, aye @Martha?

user19161

19:10

If the blog has too few posts we can always shut it down, so no worries really.

user19161

It's not going to look bad or anything like that.

Matt Ellen Д

@JasperLoy you learn more through failure than success!

user19161

And it's really hard to say we want 50 posts. Life does not go to plan as I learnt.

Matt Ellen Д

aye

user19161

@MattEllenД Just like Matt might be having his baby soon!

Matt Ellen Д

19:16

@JasperLoy no! pre -production! it's not even in the oven!

although, who knows what may happen this weekend

Cerberus

Oh?

user19161

Anything else to discuss about blog? So we'll just wait and see who writes first. Maybe each time sb wants to write they can reply to the post on meta that @grace and others can set up talking about the system and so on.

Grace Note

@JasperLoy Patience.

Matt Ellen Д

@Cerberus weekends are unpredictable!

user19161

@GraceNote I know, just trying to keep you informed. :)

Cerberus

19:21

@MattEllenД I see... do I remember correctly that the object of your unpredictability has not yet been identified unambiguously?

Rebecca Chernoff

zomg look what I found

5

user19161

@MattEllenД Are you currently attached?

Matt Ellen Д

@JasperLoy I am single

Cerberus

@RebeccaChernoff What we have evil fake ELUers?

Robusto

@RebeccaChernoff — I dunno. I find the content of that post to be utterly derivative. Possibly plagiarized.

user19161

19:21

@MattEllenД Single can mean not married, but I guess in context it means no gf.

Cerberus

Destroy them! I will send a few viruses.

Matt Ellen Д

@JasperLoy yes, entirely romantically alone

Rebecca Chernoff

oy

Cerberus

@MattEllenД It is as I recall it, then.

Robusto

And what's with the Writers.SE CSS? Don't we have our own identity?

user19161

19:22

@RebeccaChernoff Chat has a lot of weird sounds I don't understand, and smileys too.

Matt Ellen Д

@Cerberus have I mentioned this before? well at least I'm consistent!

Cerberus

@Robusto We'd have to put up little vaginae all over the page.

@MattEllenД Yup!

user19161

@MattEllenД Like me!

KitΘδς

@Robusto It's the Beta site CSS.

Grace Note

@Robusto It's the general Beta theme, and it will get a better one.

KitΘδς

19:23

@GraceNote Jinx.

FallenAngelEyes

@Cerberus This is the message I just caught in the upper right room activity feed and I was all "Bwuh?"

Grace Note

However, Jin has to actually make the blog theme, and we can coordinate the construction of the blog before we talk to Jin.

KitΘδς

@Cerberus Cootchie cues.

Cerberus

@FallenAngelEyes Hehe, my apologies.

Grace Note

@KitΘδς Minifridge is on your right.

Robusto

19:23

@Cerberus — Now, now.

user19161

@RebeccaChernoff Good, so the blog is up and running in a sense!

Cerberus

@GraceNote Why not use the theme of this very site? Or can't that simply be transferred to the blog site?

user19161

@Cerberus Or big p******.

FallenAngelEyes

@Cerberus None needed, I just nearly spit out my drink, haha.

Grace Note

@Cerberus Can't be simply transferred

Matt Ellen Д

19:24

@JasperLoy I think you mean kittens

Cerberus

@KitΘδς Hehe, yeah, cute.

Grace Note

This is a Stack Exchange theme. That thar is Wordpress-y stuffs. Have to recreate and reassign 'n' all that to a shiny effect.

KitΘδς

@MattEllenД Kittens with mittens.

Cerberus

@JasperLoy How are those linguistically interesting?

user19161

@MattEllenД No I meant pe*****.

Matt Ellen Д

19:25

@KitΘδς and little hats!

KitΘδς

@MattEllenД Yes!

user19161

@cerb I meant pe*****!

Cerberus

@GraceNote OK.

KitΘδς

@JasperLoy I think you mean pe*****.

Cerberus

@JasperLoy I think we got that now, thank you.

KitΘδς

19:26

@Cerberus Don't get me started.

user19161

@KitΘδς That is exactly what I wrote!

Cerberus

I would just love to see Jeff's face.

simchona

Hi @Kit darling

KitΘδς

@JasperLoy No, you wrote pe*****, but it's actually pluralized as pe*****.

@simchona kiss Hi, Happiness.

@Cerberus I would love to see Jeff's face with that kind of linguistic interest all over it.

user19161

@KitΘδς Next thing we have is suspension from blogging!

KitΘδς

19:29

@JasperLoy blinks innocently

JSBᾶngs

@RebeccaChernoff so we have a beta blog... but how do we do stuff to it? i mean, who can post there, etc?

Grace Note

@Rebecca Are you responding to the English Meta post? If not, I can handle it.

Rebecca Chernoff

which post?

Grace Note

meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/1426/… <- Eso, to announce the blog 'n' all. Though in thinking on it, it may warrant a post of its own at this point since that's more of a call-to-arms.

Cerberus

@KitΘδς Yeah he gets excited at that sort of thing.

user19161

19:34

@KitΘδς How do you know what I was writing. 5 asterisks = 5 asterisks.

Rebecca Chernoff

@JSBᾶngs I'll look through and add a couple admins, they'll be able to add users.

Cerberus

It's penes, by the way.

Rebecca Chernoff

@GraceNote Indeed, and that's for these folks to do. (:

KitΘδς

@JasperLoy Hence the humor.

JSBᾶngs

@RebeccaChernoff wouldn't it make sense for the ELU community mods to automatically be admins?

user19161

19:34

@Cerberus Thanks, I just learnt.

KitΘδς

@Cerberus But that kills the joke.

Grace Note

@RebeccaChernoff Aye so it is

user19161

@KitΘδς Now you are just covering up your ignorance before Cerb disclosed the plural.

Matt Ellen Д

@JasperLoy now, now. no need to be rude!

KitΘδς

@JasperLoy I am very familiar with both the singular and the plural forms of the word, young whippersnapper.

Rebecca Chernoff

19:36

@JSBᾶngs at least one, yup.

Matt Ellen Д

@KitΘδς I shan't ask how you came to be so familiar...

Cerberus

@KitΘδς Not my problem!

user19161

@KitΘδς I see, I am only familiar with the graphic versions on the internet.

KitΘδς

Yes. Graphic indeed.

user19161

19:54

@rebecca @grace I have an idea. How about giving rep to sb who writes a blog post to encourage blogging? Say 100.

Cerberus

Could be a good idea. But it might encourage blogging by the inexperienced...? High-rep users probably wouldn't care.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…