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19:00
In the absence of any other religious beliefs.
Really? You don't believe in it right @cer?
Indeed not.
I'm not sure I believe in it. I want to believe in it, and it is my hope that it is true
@oerkelens I don't think Hinduism has the kind of elaborate theological interpretations that Christianity and, to some extent, Islam sadly have?
The very use of the word belief suggests there is some doubt.
@Cerberus I have tried to read up on Hinduism, and it seems it is more of a collection of practices in a certain region over time.
19:02
Unanswered is back under 300. grumble
@MrHen What? So many?
@JasperLoy People don't seem to be upvoting Answers. :P
@MrHen Yup, I wonder why? I am very generous with my upvotes.
I'm looking into Brahma Kumaris, a tip from my friend :)
Her husband is in that
@oerkelens Have you looked into Buddhism?
19:04
Yes
@JasperLoy No idea. I am going through the tab and upvoting old Answers to fix the problem. :P
I always liked the non-theistic approach of Buddhism
I like how Buddhism is able to explain all beliefs and non-beliefs, lol.
I found Hinduism to be surprisingly non-judgemental towards outsiders, at least with the people I met
The Catholics here are more liberal than the Protestants when it comes to marrying.
19:06
@JasperLoy Yeah exactly.
And I have to say that the hope of a lifetime, however far in the future, with her, is appealing
OMG...
Hindus do kill Muslims for religious reasons, on occasion.
In India.
I know
19:07
But everyone does that.
Buddhists too.
Well, I doubt the actual religious resoning
@oerkelens I have never heard of someone who is committed to the marriage and yet loves someone else so deeply
Religion is a great excuse to kill for socio-economic reasons
Man uses religion to justify his stupidity.
Well, I always knew I was a romantic
I just never knew what that really meant
until some years ago
19:09
@oerkelens It's complicated. Religion is an excuse, but it can also reinforce differences and the condemnation of the customs of others.
Yes, I fully agree
I am now particularly disgusted with religions X, Y and Z, lol.
@JasperLoy Religion uses stupidity to justify his man.
@Cerberus It's much like the piracy debate; would the evildoers have still been evil if religion was absent?
I try not to say what X, Y, Z are to avoid conflict.
19:10
@JasperLoy Holy crap! Not Y! That's sacrilege.
Although I like to make a distinction between religion and organised religion (i.e. church)
The others can go to hell.
@MrHen You don't need religion to do evil. But it certainly can be a great help
@MrHen Hmm what's the religion in the case of piracy?
Uh oh.
19:11
@oerkelens Like the difference between your uncle pulling a quarter from behind your ear and a professional magician making an elephant disappear.
Are you talking about poverty and Somalian pirates?
@JasperLoy We know exactly who they are!
@Cerberus Piracy. "Would a pirate have purchased the media if they had not pirated it?"
@Mitch Yes, the magician is terrible. I love elephants :(
I think that stealing is allowed if one is dying of hunger.
19:11
@oerkelens Religion can be an excuse for strife and a cause of it, whether it be organised or not.
Every one has the right to survive.
@MrHen Oh, you mean information piracy, OK.
@Cerberus So can kittens.
@Cerberus Yeah, sorry. Ambiguity strikes again.
@MrHen But less so.
@Mitch Where we means you and me, lol.
19:12
@oerkelens He didn't really make the elephant disappear. The elephant really just walks into a hidden compartment.
@Cerberus ;) I'm just poking you for the fun of it.
@Mitch disappear also means "vanish from sight: to cease to be seen, e.g. by moving away or going behind or into something"
@Cerberus I doubt individual religious believe can really serve a a cause for strife. Religious believes can be very easily used by people to cause strife, that is true, but then it is organised.
@MrHen I think the whole notion of information piracy is moot, but I will say that people who pirate a lot also buy a lot (this has been proven), and that a pirated file is not a lost sale by a long stretch.
@Mitch Ooooh! Good! I was worried for a moment! :)
@MrHen I know. But I couldn't resist a serious reply.
19:14
@oerkelens Shame and guilt are very powerful things that are directly caused by beliefs and ideas.
@Cerberus That was my point in the comparison.
@MrHen Yes, but give me an example of someone who did evil based on religious believes that were not taught to him or her by someone else.
I don't actually have any interest in the piracy debate.
@oerkelens This applies to anything other than a person. Oil by itself cannot cause strife either, nor can hatred or a murderous frenzy.
@MrHen Great!
@oerkelens You were originally talking about strife; now you are talking about evil
Hatred can surely lead to strife, as can envy, or economical poverty
19:15
@oerkelens Religion without it being told to you by someone else is not something that exists in practice.
@Cerberus I'm not sure I understand your point, here.
Ok, substitute strife for evil :) Because evil is of course subjective :)
@oerkelens In that case, so can religion.
Religion is a main topic in this chat, and I am one of the culprits, lol.
@Cerberus They all started somewhere...
@oerkelens Then I think my example is valid...
19:16
@Cerberus Oh? There are many people that would describe themselves as belonging to a religion they were not brougt up with, and the information about which they have researched themselves
yes, the information is created by others
@MrHen Oerkelens said religion by itself cannot cause strife, you always need people for that. This applies to everything and anything, more or less a tautology in that phrasing.
@MrHen Hence "in practice".
But there is a difference between someone reading about the life of prince Siddharta and adopting buddhist ideas, and someone who has been told his whole life that the people from the next village are eveil because they pray to the wrong god
@Cerberus Oh. Is that just like, "If a tree falls in a forest..."?
@oerkelens They have searched for the words other people wrote to describe the religion.
I mentioned that :)
19:18
@oerkelens There is a difference, yes.
@MrHen Umm kind of.
@Cerberus Well, it does exist, actually. They just aren't usually classified as a main religion because it would only be one person.
But there are very few religious sources that actually tell people to fight or kill
@oerkelens I assume you mean primary texts.
THere are too many people who try to interpret texts liek that, though
@MrHen Still not significant in practice in the debate about religion.
19:19
oh well, primary texts is a debatable concept
There are tons of religious sources that advocate violence (e.g. pastors; clerics).
@Cerberus It depends on the scope of the debate.
It is not clear cut to define a particular religion, because people who identify themselves as followers can have very different viewpoints from each other.
@JasperLoy Hence the term "denomination."
@MrHen Thoise are people in a hiarchy with a good reason to maintain the power-status-quo
Was 911 about religion?
19:20
@oerkelens Very few? At least the three large monotheist scriptures have similar instructions somewhere. Of course they are cesspools of inconsistency, so it will be all about love and forgiveness in the next chapter.
Cerb and I had this debate in this very chat, actually.
@skullpatrol Nobody knows, lol.
@oerkelens But are they not religious sources?
@skullpatrol I don;t think 9/11 was about religion, no
@MrHen In this debate, it did not seem relevant?
19:21
@Cerberus I was treating this more like a conversation than a debate. :P I'll let you decide if it was relevant. :)
When we talk about violence, let us not dismiss it as something that is always wrong though.
They were described as religious fundamentalists
@MrHen My fault, I was too broad. I meant religious texts that were written as religious texts without an obvious political agenda
Is Satanism also a religion?
@oerkelens Ah, okay. That's why I asked about primary texts.
@JasperLoy Do Satanists worship anything?
19:22
And as for "religious texts"with a political agenda, most of the sacred texts of the three main monotheistic religions show a political agenda
@MrHen Satan?
@JasperLoy I don't think they do, actually.
anti-religion?
@skullpatrol You are very bold, lol.
@oerkelens I don't understand why you are distinguishing between religious texts with and without political agendas
19:23
If you believe in God, you must believe in the opposite too, no?
@skullpatrol You mean in Satan?
@skullpatrol No, not really.
I think it is a valid question whether (most) satanists really worship anything, or whether they actively rebel against worshipping in general.
It depends on your definition of God.
I don't consider atheism a religion though.
19:24
@JasperLoy That's a hot button issue.
It all hinges on the definition of religion.
THAT ^ is my point
atheists don't like to be classified as religious, however, so I don't think it's going to catch on.
@skullpatrol You can reply to specific comments by click on the arrow next to it
He knows, lol.
@MrHen Because I can see interesting guidelines as to how to live one's life in many philosophical treatises, as well as in quite some religious texts. But the moment a text singles out a specific group or nation and condemns them based on ad-hoc theology, I cannot take that as really religiously inspired.
@MrHen Heh. Then, no.
19:26
@oerkelens I think you may be redefining the term "religion" to mean "religions personally useful"
@Cerberus Fair enough! :D
@oerkelens Why not? Why can't religion be partly about hatred?
Religion just means "connecting with the divine".
@MrHen That is why I made that distinction earlier between personal religious believes and organised religion.
And the divine can be violent or spiteful, why not?
@Cerberus "divine" isn't necessary, either. I think we argued about this before...
And I think it is necessary.
19:28
we did :(
At the very least "supernatural".
@oerkelens I guess my point was that "religion" already exists as a term. Overloading it again seems counterproductive.
@Cerberus Can the divine be?
@Cerberus If you can show me any source that does not start with what they want eliminated before explaining why it should be eliminated, I would be very interested.
;)
As usual, I am not following the discussion between cerb and hen, lol.
19:28
@oerkelens Religious source?
@JasperLoy Heh. :)
It would be easier if each gave the other a chance to reply...
imo
@skullpatrol It is easier when we use teh reply feature.
Oops; got a meeting.
@MrHen But religion never had the exclusive meaning of "a set of believes organised and explained by a specific class of people, possibly in a hierarchic power structure, within a society or social group.
@MrHen No...
@oerkelens Huh, what?
@Cerberus ;)
19:30
That is how a lot of people define religion nowadays
But I disagree with that definition as I don;t think it ever was used to exclusively have that meaning
7 mins ago, by MrHen
It all hinges on the definition of religion.
And that class of people can be the Catholic church or a local gathering of village elders with a religious book in their hands.
@oerkelens Yes, it is generally more comprehensive.
and that "hinge" needs alot of oil :-)
But it depends on the purpose of your research which definition you want to choose.
@skullpatrol creak!
19:32
So I don't see why I am changing the definition when I talk about a set of more personal, unorganised believes that do not depend on the interpretation by a third party
@Cerberus Of course it does :)
When I am lloking at a way to deal with my life, I approach religion (and it;s definitions) differently from when I am looking at the effects of religion on human sociaety throughout history
Jan 10 at 21:28, by Cerberus
> There is a group of people who propagate certain rules.
Some of these rules have something to do with the divine, or the supernatural, or something like that.
A number of people follow their rules to some extent.
Their number is typically larger than, say, just a family.
If all of this is the case, it makes sense to speak of an "organised religion".
Actually, in the latter case, I can probably still best be described as a "strong atheist"
@oerkelens Right!
Hey, I could have written that
Now people will think all people in this country think the same :(
that's politics^
19:36
Hi @aediaλ I had two glasses of coffee today!
Hiya!
@JasperLoy two? I would not be awake if i kept my consumption that low :D
@skullpatrol Guilty as charged
@JasperLoy Glasses? Not cups?
Now people will think all people in this country think the same :(
@oerkelens Oops I hadn't noticed you had just written that.
19:39
:D
@aediaλ More like a mug which is larger than a cup.
@aediaλ Hi!
We are accused of politics now :(
"Glass of coffee" sounds so odd to me. I don't think I would ever say I had a glass of coffee. Maybe iced coffee.
Mmm. Giant mug of coffee.
@skullpatrol Politics related to the divine?
19:40
drinks coffee
giant mugs
:)
@Cerberus Good point.
@oerkelens I kept reading that as accursed and thinking "Isn't everyone?"
The point of a spear to transfix the infidels?
wallows in mugs of coffee
19:44
@aediaλ how deep!
and that with the whole theological discussion going on
It would be more deep if I hadn't already drunk most of the coffee...
shares coffee
gratefully accepts coffee
Thanks!
What should I listen to to try to concentrate?
19:52
What is love?
You should listen to nothing.
the sound of silence?
would that be the same as the sound of your own thoughts?
@KitFox Oh wow. I can't believe I forgot that... baby don't hurt meeee
19:55
@skullpatrol Well, in this sense of sound we are using, thoughts produce no sound.
Don't hurt me
@KitFox I described it earlier
no more
@aediaλ You should listen to baby baby baby oh instead, lol
Oh, we should teach that to KitSox.
!!what is love?
19:55
@KitFox love (uncountable) Strong affection.
No, no, no.
!!baby
tch
@JasperLoy That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.
wooahhaha wowowowoahaah aaah ahh
19:56
bobs head
!!youtube baby
!!youtube baby don't hurt me
dances in her chair surreptitiously
tries to suppress grin
This is a great way to get up for the stakeholder meeting.
nchk nchk nchk
19:59
!!youtube everybody dance now
!!undo 14021677
@cyril You do not have permission to use the command undo
20:31
posted on February 27, 2014 by sgdi

I’m not the type to give in Despite the fact I can’t win I’ll play to the end And try to defend An honour that’s grown very thin

@MετάEd You look like a rock star.
I believe the question limits are only enabled on SOFU. That said, 47 questions over two days (by my count) certainly does seem a bit much. — waiwai933 3 hours ago
Ya think like?
I say, the more questions the merrier!
I say, you're right!
@JasperLoy Then you go answer her questions!
@skullpatrol Et tu, calabaza.
20:43
@tchrist How did you know her sex?
I have not been looking at the questions much, I just noticed this user.
@JasperLoy Cuz.
She said who and what she was at some point.
Plus I can smell ’em half a world away.
Because they made meta so hard to access, I don't visit meta anymore.
Huh?
It’s so easy now!
Huh? Let me see.
OK, still one more click compared to long ago.
@RegDwigнt They’ve put the Edits back to burnt orange instead of burnt red.
@JasperLoy If you have nothing else to complain about, I can pass you a thousand million woes to worry to death.
20:55
I see they have made it easier to return to main from meta.
Is your back key borked?
It works fine, but I never thought of using it.
I use 'z'.
Easy to reach.
Jasper, are you being productive?
Nope, I am not.
@JasperLoy At least I'm not more popular than Jesus.
21:15
So I told someone in the math room that he should not have a space before the question mark, comma, and full stop, and he told me to shut up, lol.
It doesn't pay to be kind these days.
The currency of kindness is not measured in shekels.
 
1 hour later…
22:24
Hello, kind people!!
I've just found someone on Facebook who had abandoned his account elsewhere.
His abandonment made me really sad.
Is it stalking if you send someone a friend request in this situation?
Hey, who's starring that!
You're doing what?
You're giving a sympathy friending to a stranger on Facebook?
No, that's not stalking.
Sympathy?
It's … other things.
He's not exactly a stranger.
We had great conversations.
What other things? And how many?
yeah strange star
22:31
Oh, well.
I've send a request for his friendship.
If I send a message, it will end up in his spam/other inbox.
Jez
Jez
22:51
heya
23:13
I do not like a Linzer tort
Not even one of smallest ort
I would not eat it in a fort
Nor munch it with a glass of port
Amen.
Ort?
And what are tarts from Linz like?
Actually, I suppose it should have been torte.
A tort is a legal definition of damage or harm.
The Linzer Torte (or Linzertorte) is an Austrian torte with a lattice design on top of the pastry. It is named after the city of Linz, Austria. Linzer Torte is a very short, crumbly pastry made of flour, unsalted butter, egg yolks, lemon zest, cinnamon and lemon juice, and ground nuts, usually hazelnuts, but even walnuts or almonds are used, covered with a filling of redcurrant jam or, alternatively, plum butter, thick raspberry, or apricot jam. It is covered by a lattice of dough strips. The dough is rolled out in very thin strips of pastry and arranged to form a criss-cross design on ...
And actually, I lied. I would definitely eat a Linzer torte. But not a Linzer tort. You can see the problem there, I think.
@Cerberus Yes, ort.
I thought you knew all the three-letter words already.
@Robusto Sounds good.
@Robusto Nope, I started at the other end.
Hmm, ort is from Dutch?
You see your error now, I presume.
I only know oortje, an ancient, very small coin.
@Robusto I only see my aberration yet.
No five-letter words yet.
23:24
ooraete is Dutch.
Yeah?
Doesn't look it.
@Cerberus There aren't those words where Dutch folks abide?
See what I did there?
An entire sentence of five-letter words. If you answer it, you're busted.
Anyway, Mahlzeitgeist.
Hah.
@Robusto The perpendicular pronominal entity fails to recognise what your authorship has conscribulated.
It's really impossible to write without using any 3-letter words.

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