English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

badass

00:03

@tchrist indeed it is a sad state of affairs. He was a genius and I don't think the queen's pardon would have meant much to him.

tchrist

@badass Probably not. But if one queen won’t stick up for another, who’s left to defend him? :)

badass

:-)

tchrist

I think that’s an Ian McKellen joke upon his being knighted, but I may have the wrong queen in mind.

One of the acting greats said it, I know.

tchrist

00:19

I never see these.

I flicker to other windows to do other things, and by the time I swap back, it’s always too late.

I really want our children being taught that Turing was a great man and a hero.

And that his government was so evil it tortured him into suicide.

If the Germans can look their own historical evils dead straight in the eye, Anglophonia must do no less with theirs.

Because otherwise we risk, well, you know.

Like @Rob once mentioned (IIRC), I feel like just about everything I was ever officially taught in history classes in school was so full of lies as to be nonsense propaganda.

Johan Larsson

Isn't it pretty common that heroes get a rough treatment? Like Snowden and mr Lasagna.

tchrist

We owe our children the truth, however harsh it may be. We should not lie to them.

Who’s this Lasagna character?

Johan Larsson

probably many journalists that I don't know about also

Julian Assange

tchrist

Oh him.

Well, he's a bit of a weirdo.

Johan Larsson

I can't say I know him

tchrist

00:25

My feelings towards Mr Assange are probably less rosy, warm, and cuddly than my feelings for Mr Snowden.

Snowden doesn’t seem to have a super-inflated ego the way Assange appears to have.

But Benny Cumberbatch is convinced the Assange is a hero.

He studied him for the rôle. And Julian called him up asking him not to take that rôle, at which point Benny argued with him that it was for those very reasons that he should take the rôle, so that people got a real feel for what actually went on.

I am much more aghast and upset about the things that Snowden revealed than I am about those that Assange did, and I never thought that that could happen. The Assange stuff was already so ugly I didn’t expect it to be topped ever, let alone as quickly as it was.

@JohanLarsson Why do you have no ELU account?

> Snowden ‘an indoor cat’ in Moscow, says he’s ‘won’.

I wish that were true.

I really do.

But I’m not sure that I believe it.

Johan Larsson

@tchrist I already replied to that a couple of times, I don't know the language.

tchrist

Still, that’s better than most things I wish were true. Those I absolutely do not believe at all, and this one I believe only a little. But the wish is just as fervent.

@JohanLarsson Neither do most people who have accounts there.

:)

Johan Larsson

guess I could create one

tchrist

Sure you could!

Johan Larsson

not planning to be active on the main site

tchrist

00:36

No, but we’re in fishing season now.

Oh wait, I do have something you might be interested in. Just a sec.

Johan Larsson

ok I have an account now

Anonymous

Yay

Johan Larsson

Having an account does not mean I will put a comma right, ever.

tchrist

@JohanLarsson I found this interesting because it was about my home state, and it’s on a matter that I thought might be of some interest to you. Bowhunting in America: In a dark wood. Can bows and arrows save hunting in America?.

@JohanLarsson Well, that one was pretty good.

It’s a more subdued alternative to the bombastic em dash: “Having an account does not mean I will put a comma right — ever.”

Anonymous

@JohanLarsson I'm an inveterate comma over-inserter. :-(

tchrist

00:41

Where subdude is a more casual form of submariner.

The road to new hats is a difficult one at this point.

And some are impossible.

My shortest paths to a new hat are each of them unlikelily long.

Robusto

There is a neo-Jazz group called The Subsides.

THE SUBDUDES.

tchrist

My best new hat chances are here, here, here, here, here, and here. But they are still slim. Please star this :).

Robusto

Stupid keyboard.

tchrist

Now what has it done?

Robusto

Turned Subsides into Subsides.

Wrong!

tchrist

00:51

@Robusto Those look the same to me.

Robusto

I'm typing on my Christmas present.

Doesn't want to type Subdudes.

tchrist

`What is it?

Robusto

Kindle Fire HDX.

tchrist

Hm.

And it has a keyboard?

Thanks for the starring.

Some of those are on SO not ELU, but that’s ok.

They aren’t my highest voted questions there, just the ones that are 20 or fewer from getting a 100 mark.

Robusto

On-screen keyboard.

tchrist

00:57

Oh.

The only ones of those I've ever used have been super far from impressive.

@Reg You said to notify you when next I’m close to 500 on an answer. Now I am only 4 away. Too bad there is no badge for that.

What is it about threes, anyway? We have the Johnny Three Hat thing, and then we have the dingdongy Ho Ho Ho hat for Christmas. Who the hell gets three hoes for Christmas? Seems like it would tire you out too much.

It’s like more hoes than you have hands.

Johan Larsson

@tchrist I think bowhunting is illegal in Sweden with the argument that the likelihood of wounding is higher, not 100% sure though. Well written article.

tchrist

@JohanLarsson I’m glad you liked it. Bowhunting not legal in Sweden? That’s a surprise.

What I didn’t know about was the whole crossbow controversy.

> Snowden gave a more than 14-hour interview to The Washington Post, which says it's the first he has conducted in person since arriving in the Russian capital in June. He follows that up by speaking directly to the British public in a televised message that will be broadcast Wednesday as an alternative to the queen's annual Christmas speech.

Wow, whose speech would you rather watch, Snowden’s or ER’s? Not much choice there, I’m afraid.

Johan Larsson

@tchrist ok, having a look but will not vote if I don't know they are good.

tchrist

Sweet, though.

Voting isn’t important for the views ones.

@Reg Per usual, I have to go to Russia to learn the juiciest bits about home.

> Colorado made history on Monday, becoming the first state in the US to issue hundreds of licenses for recreational marijuana businesses. Colorado's Marijuana Enforcement Division approved 348 licenses: 136 to pot shops, 31 to marijuana-infused products companies, 178 to growing facilities, and three to marijuana-testing laboratories.

Although the headline makes it seem like you need a licence to smoke.

You don’t.

Well, I’ve just now proven there’s no secret Grinch hat for downvoting on Christmas.

Meanwhile, the Mormons have lost another round with the Feds.

> A federal appeals court ruled Tuesday that gay marriages can continue in Utah, denying a request from the state to halt same-sex weddings that have been occurring at a rapid rate since last week. The 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals' rejection of Utah's request for an emergency stay marks yet another legal setback for the state.

Johan Larsson

01:15

obvious weasel in the pic but why do they spell it weesil and even make an effort to obfuscate it further?

tchrist

Between legal pot and legal gay marriages, I feel like I’m living in some science fiction universe.

Too bad I can make use of neither. :(

@JohanLarsson Because it is from before the spelling weasel was standardized.

English spelling didn’t really settle down until quit a bit later than most people realize.

Anonymous

FBI Reviews It’s A Wonderful Life (With A Special Appearance By Ayn Rand)

tchrist

Yes, there are still changes.

But it isn’t like in Shakey’s day. There’s such a thing now as normative spelling of English. There wasn’t back during Billy the Bard’s hit run.

@Rob While driving to Geneva from MKE, I heard the radio-adapted version of It’s a Wonderful Life starring Jimmy Stewart from right after the movie debuted, and then after that, (parts of) Bach’s St Matthew Passion. I really like the old radio dramas and stuff, but it’s hard to heard them on normal stations anymore. Wisconsin still has some, though.

badass

Why is the FBI wasting their time with that when they could be filling their payroll with terrorists like the CIA did with Bin Laden? @snailboat

tchrist

@snailboat Hilarious!

badass

01:29

I guess they leave the harmless comedy to the FBI

tchrist

02:41

I know this is ELU not Ornithology.SE, but really, you have to do better than this to get a +2:

1

Q: Is “blue bird” Bluebird？

Quotation from Lady Chatterley's Lover: "The lush, dark green of hyacinths was a sea, with buds rising like pale corn, while in the riding the forget-me-nots were fluffing up, and columbines were unfolding their ink-purple ruches, and there were bits of blue bird's eggshell under a bush."

meaning

2

A: Is “blue bird” Bluebird？

It seems more likely that shells from robins' eggs, which are blue, are being referred to. According to wikipedia, “robin egg blue is ... a web-safe color and an official Crayola color.” The following photo shows some eggs that according to sciencedaily.com are robin's eggs, almost ready to hat...

I doubt it. D.H. Lawrence was English, and there are no American robins (Turdus migratorius) in Britain; the English robin in completely unrelated, not being thrushes like the American ones are, and has brown eggs, not blue ones. That same reasoning also rules out bluebirds (genus Sialia from the Turdidae family), another kind of American thrush similarly absent in Britain. There are, however, European turdids of varying sorts, which are all named either blackbirds or thrushes, depending, which might have the correct eggshell color. — tchrist 1 min ago

The facts are wrong.

badass

There is no such thing as a wrong fact.

You can get your facts wrong, but you can't get a wrong fact.

It's like saying a "wrong truth."

They both can not be true at the same time.

Contradictory facts can not be true at the same time.

tchrist

02:56

0

A: Is a “blue bird” the same as a “bluebird”？

No, a blue bird is not a bluebird. A bluebird is a type of American thrush, and there are no bluebirds in Britain where the novel you cite from is set. This is a bluebird: as is this: Those are both bluebirds. There are no bluebirds in Europe, only in North America. The famous color “rob...

It’s funny. Blackbirds in America are icterids, a genus that does not occur in Europe.

Whereas European blackbirds are turdids, the same as our American robins.

Whoever named these things was obviously birdbrained.

Believe it or not, the truly intriguing question here is not the eggshell, but rather figuring out what the devil the cited ruches are. It’s not a particularly common word. A ruche per the OED is “A frill or quilling of some light material, as ribbon, gauze, or lace, used to ornament some part of a garment or head-dress.” — tchrist 16 secs ago

badass

I'm still pissed off at the OED.

John Wilson

baddass are you a troll?

badass

03:13

Define troll.

John Wilson

I'm the troll now.

Lol

Because I saw you at the math chat room when I was asking a questions there, now you are here.

And while I was scrolling up this chat I saw you wrote the same thing in the math chat room about the CIA and Bin Laden

badass

Btw there is only one d in badass :-)

John Wilson

Misspell

My mistake then.

Do you know what an internet troll is?

I'm trying to improve my grammar for the SAT.

Do you guys know any sources?

for that matter?

EnglishMaster

Happy birthday JESUS CHRIST!

John Wilson

I have a few questions that I mistakes in, and I want to know the grammar concepts used in them.

EnglishMaster

03:18

YOU ARE OFFICIALLY 2013 YEARS OLD!

John Wilson

Happy birthday Isaac Newton!

Isaac Newton was born on Christmas :)

EnglishMaster

what? btw, is it wrong to name your son "Jesus"?

Jesus is just a name, right?

John Wilson

No there is nothing wrong.

I think it's just a name.

EnglishMaster

seminoles.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/jesus_wilson_852681.html

Yeah, you are right, there's a guy called "Jesus Wilson"

badass

And they both died virgins.

EnglishMaster

03:20

no way! that's so badass!

John Wilson

My interenet is low

is slow

So, do you guys no any ways to improve my grammar?

I bet you might say read or write a lot

but do you guys know any free material with exercises in them?

badass

Have you checked YouTube?

EnglishMaster

I'm sure you already know pretty much every general ideas about English grammar, but you can't use them well enough or keep forgetting them.

John Wilson

Yes

badass

Or Wikipedia?

John Wilson

03:24

But I do not know the rules well enough to get a decent score on the SAT

the SAT writing section, that is.

That's why I was looking for any exercises.

EnglishMaster

You should be able to self acknowledge what kind of grammar topic you must revise

John Wilson

I was solving some exercises on the college board website, but that's not enough.

EnglishMaster

and just study that particular grammar instead of trying to learn everything from scratch

John Wilson

Yes, I

I

I'm trying to find a particular topic to study from.

Instead of just go everywhere.

I was studying parallism recently.

badass

Try the OED web site.

John Wilson

03:27

I think you said something about QED in this chat before. @badass

I was studying parallism recently.

But where are the exercises in the site?

They have the content but no exercises. Should I just write what they give me?

badass

They have lots of activities

John Wilson

Okay

Maybe I missed something then.

from that website

do you have a link?

badass

I'm on mobile sorry

John Wilson

How did you guys improve your writing?

Okay, that's fine.

No biggie

EnglishMaster

No biggies?

John Wilson

03:31

LOl

what does biggie mean?

EnglishMaster

Wait, where are you even from?

Your name suggests me you are from a western country

Cough Russia? Cough

John Wilson

I'm from the UnMy computer is lagging.

EnglishMaster

What?

John Wilson

Sorry my computer is laggy.

I'm from the USA

My computer is very old. It's prehistoric.

EnglishMaster

Oh, land of oppor-freaking-tunity?

John Wilson

03:34

yes

EnglishMaster

dayum!

John Wilson

lol

but I don't have money to buy tutors and such. So, the internet is my land of opportunity.

EnglishMaster

'MURICA!

Why do you even bother to study grammar when you are in a English speaking country?

John Wilson

If I do not study my grammar, then I won't improve my grammar. It's simple as that.

Being in an English speaking country is irrelevant in being able to write well.

EnglishMaster

Are you FOB?

John Wilson

03:37

There're people that live here for so long , yet don't know how to speak or write in English.

What's FOB?

EnglishMaster

I used to be one of them too! Haha, nice to meet ya mate!

urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fob

badass

Fresh Off the Boat

EnglishMaster

I think the term is too prehistoric

nowadays FOBs come on planes, not on boats!

badass

FOP :-)

EnglishMaster

heh

John Wilson

03:42

Copy and past the definition for me because my computer is laggy.

NVM you sre already wrote it.

you already worte it.

wrote it.

I do not understand what you guys are talking about.

I came here to ask for some help, but you guys are just writing clever.

EnglishMaster

John, could you ask your question again?

badass

That is the first step in mastering any language

John Wilson

Do you know any material with exercises to improve my grammar?

I'm a master of nothing, and I'm the fool of everything.

So help a fool out here.

How did you guys improve your grammar?

badass

Post your question on this site.

John Wilson

I think it will face scrutiny

Plus, I already searched it on this site.

badass

03:47

So?

John Wilson

There's nothing wrong with posting it. I can deal with scrutiny.

The general advice they said is to read a lot.

I don't think that helps.

Perhaps a little bit but not a bunch.

badass

You know what the three Rs stand for?

John Wilson

Revise?

and revise?

and... revise?

I'm just guessing.

EnglishMaster

You haven't even attempted their suggestion, read a lot, and already doubting whether it's going to work or not

John Wilson

read what?

badass

03:51

No from elementary school education.

John Wilson

I don't remember anything from elementary school.

What does the three Rs stand for?

You see, you need to be specific on what materials you mean by read.

Is there a correlation in reading a lot and being able to write good?

badass

Reading writing and arithmetic

John Wilson

Why did you write "Read writing and arithmetic"?

badass

Those are the 3 Rs

John Wilson

And what are the three Rs used for?

They stand for something, but what's the point if they stand for something and aren't useful.

badass

03:54

Passing the SAT :-)

John Wilson

That's horrible advice...

If I read bad and write bad and compute bad, I'll end up with bad habits in those things.

badass

All I am saying is go back to the basics

John Wilson

Okay, thanks for being clear with me.

You're right.

badass

Go to the library and the book store and look at old exams you will see they are testing your basic knowledge

EnglishMaster

I think you should pick a book in a field of your interest

because you are already aware of sheer number of vocabularies about your study, so it will be easier for you to read a book about it too.

I think if you can understand, approximately 85~90% of vocabularies in a book, then you can understand the whole book. You will learn the missing 15~10% of vocabularies while reading.

John Wilson

04:00

I used the blue sat book in the library I go to.

My computer lag

EnglishMaster

Are you a 'MURICAN farm boy?

John Wilson

I think I'm going to search for a popular science book in the library.

Science seems interesting to me.

I'll keep note of what you just wrote to me.

EnglishMaster

You have to narrow down your search, the topic science is too broad

John Wilson

I was learning stuff on discrete math.

EnglishMaster

cool

John Wilson

04:03

But I've been using books at the library and the internet.

But the thing is, I haven't faced any crazy vocabulary as for now.

Maybe I'm missing something here. I don't know.

the vocabulary in the materials.

So, I think I should find a more technical books.

and see from there I guess.

badass

Have a look at some good high school textbooks.

John Wilson

Well, I guess I'll see what happens.

Thank you guys for the help

badass

The in sat stands for admission

John Wilson

It was once aptitude

the a in sat.

badass

The a in sat stands for admission

EnglishMaster

04:10

Does t in SAT stands for torture?

badass

Test=torturous

EnglishMaster

Korean SAT is called CSAT, which stands for Continuously Slow and Atrocious Torture

No comment

badass

No comment

EnglishMaster

It's ok, there are much more difficult and time consuming exams than SAT. Such as CCIE

badass

I recall the comparison to the Harvard med school exam

EnglishMaster

04:20

Yeah, I remember it too ^_^..

badass

What does ^_^.. Mean?

EnglishMaster

It's a Korean smiley face. ^_^..

I'm not sure why I put 2 dots at the end tho..

I think it's a habbit..

badass

:-) = ^_^..

EnglishMaster

Yeah ^_^

badass

icic

EnglishMaster

04:29

-_- = :|

T_T = crying

badass

😄😄

EnglishMaster

They are two boxes aligned horizontally

badass

🐻🏠🔢

EnglishMaster

Now it's 3 boxes

badass

>8(

EnglishMaster

04:42

Is it true that some countries have marked Sydney, Australia as a dangerous place to travel due to crimes happening frequently over there?

tchrist

05:44

@badass \N{BEAR FACE}\N{HOUSE BUILDING}\N{INPUT SYMBOL FOR NUMBERS}

John Y

06:13

Maybe dumb question, but is pinging someone just at-signing their name? @Ste: I've posted an answer to the marauder question, in hopes of a marauder hat!

tchrist

06:54

Christmas is upon us all!

►

EnglishMaster

Isn't it Christmas there yet?

tchrist

It is.

Jasper Loy

07:48

Ho ho ho, merry Christmas!

Ste

09:04

Merry Christmas all!

Ste

09:32

@JohnY - Have a pirate hat!

Gigili

09:56

Hullow.

Umm, I'm not convinced @Ste

Ste

@Gigili about what?

Jasper Loy

@Gigili had or got is fine

Gigili

As I said in a comment to @JasperLoy's answer, I'm referring to the very moment that it happened

Jasper Loy

@Gigili Yes, I know, and those are alright.

Ste

Yes, if I had a heart attack it would be very specific to the time it happened. As Jasper says - it's alright.

Gigili

10:00

O...K then, "got" will be replaced in the brackets.

@Ste How do you say it for heart attack instead of apoplexy?

Jasper Loy

Same, had or got.

Ste

I had a heart attack sounds best

Gigili

I mean you can't say I had a heart attack the same day last month, can you?

Or maybe you can.

Jasper Loy

Yes, you can.

Gigili

Yes, sounds good now that I read it again.

OK, thanks.

But "experienced" sounds better.

Jasper Loy

10:07

No, had sounds better.

Gigili

No.

> Once we went to visit him during that trip and in a conversation between he and my father, he asked my father:

Is it correct?

"he and my father"?

Something's wrong with it.

During that trip, we went to visit him. In the middle of a conversation he had with my father, he asked him: "XXXXXXXX?"

Better, hum?

But "he asked him" is a bit ambiguous, don't you think?

Ste

"had" is better for a heart attack. Personally I think experienced is better for apoplexy.

He is not ambiguous because it is defined before the comma

Gigili

Doesn't it contain lots of "he" and "him"s?

Ste

It depends on the preceding context. Who have we established is "we" and "him"?

Damkerng T.

Hello

Ste

10:18

We went to visit him[A]. In the conversation he[A] had with my father[B], he[A] asked him[B]...

That;s how it reads at the moment.

@DamkerngT. yo

Damkerng T.

Who had a heart attack?

Gigili

> My father had some friends in Madison who worked in Bazaar(marketplace). One of them was a faithful man called XXXXX. My father had a close relationship with him and they used to hang out quite frequently. He experienced apoplexy a few years back and was suffering from numbness on the left side of the body, hence the need for a cane to walk. During that trip, we went to visit him. In the middle of a conversation he had with my father, he asked him:

Damkerng T.

Oh...

I hope he'll get well soon.

Gigili

Is that okay?

Ste

My father[A] had some friends who worked in Bazaar. One of them was a faithful man called XX[B]. My father[A] had a close relationship with him[B] and they used to hang out. He[Ambiguous] experienced apoplexy a few years back and was suffering from numbness on the left side of the body, hence the need for a cane to walk. During that trip, we went to visit him[Ambiguous]. In the middle of a conversation he[B] had with my father, he [B]asked him:

It does look like the ambiguous person is [B] but I would start the third sentence with "XX experienced apoplexy..."

And I would go with "XX had experienced..."

Gigili

10:26

and him[A]?

So, only two corrections.

Thank you.

Ste

If you start with XX experienced, then "him" becomes "XX" as well.

Gigili

Got it.

RegDwigнt

10:46

0

Q: Difference between fun and interesting (adj.)

In Japanese, there is no difference in definition between fun and interesting in their adjective forms. Now, I know that fun in English also has a noun and verb form, but I am wondering is there any difference between fun (adjective definition) and interesting ? In all honesty, they appear to me...

meaning

@Rob: is that true?

Gigili

You lie like a rug.

I posted and voted today but earned no special hats.

RegDwigнt

I rest my case.

And there's a suggested edit waiting for you.

But I suppose it'll be gone before you wake up.

Gigili