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14:00
absolute terms without terms
Oh, no. It's just I had my specs off.
so "pleasure without conscience", does that mean the good thing is "pleasure with some conscience" or "pleasure with absolute consideration for all possible consequences for your actions"?
Kit without specs.
@MattЭллен that's the thing, nobody even knows what conscience is.
14:01
@RegDwigнt Blind as a bat.
People get annoyed with my echolocating.
@KitFox so. Squeaking?
Jinx.
@RegDwigнt Who cares? ;-)
Who without The.
@RegDwigнt I'm defining it as consdering and understanding and giving a shit about the consequences of your actions
Doctors without borders.
What's wrong with pleasure without conscience?
14:02
That's a euphemism for fat doctors.
@KitFox I don't know.
I don't know that a fat doctor would be a good doctor.
Haircut without hair
@KitFox it's on some dead guy's list. That is what's wrong with it.
With without out.
The seven deadly sins, also known as the capital vices or cardinal sins, is a classification of vices (part of Christian ethics) that has been used since early Christian times to educate and instruct Christians concerning fallen humanity's tendency to sin. In the currently recognized version, the sins are usually given as wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony. The Catholic Church divides sin into two categories: venial sins, in which guilt is relatively minor, and the more severe mortal sins. Theologically, a mortal or deadly sin is believed to destroy the life of grace ...
14:05
polyunsaturated blood
@skullpatrol yeah that's another lie. None of those sins are deadly. I tried.
Really? All of them?
all at once
Wow.
Yeah. Sin thrice, get four for free.
14:06
What a bargain! How can I lose?
You can't, that's the kicker.
win at sin!
In Wisconsin!
Yay cheese.
Gesundheit.
14:07
Sorry. Too many windows.
bit of a hair trigger on the paste button, there
I do have to ask. What happened when you added "yay cheese" to your code?
@MattЭллен No, I typed that.
You can add by typing.
14:08
The cheese seems to have helped.
Stereotypes without stereos
Dishonorable discharge without dis. Twice.
with or without you I can't live
This room without U2.
I couldn't do widout dis. Dat maybe, but not dis
De oder ding I definitely need
14:11
I'm blue, de dis de ding de be dye.
skull without patrol
Skullpa without trol.
All y'all without these delicious blueberry mini-muffins.
Mr Hen without Hen
He's very hensome.
14:14
D'aww...
!!define versimilitude
@KitFox It means I aint got time to learn your $5 words
@KitFox No definition found.
It means we need a better dictionary API.
!!define verisimilitude
@MattЭллен verisimilitude the property of seeming true, of resembling reality; resemblance to reality, realism
14:18
Oh stupid...fox.
!!define verity
@MattЭллен verity (archaic) Truth, fact or reality, especially an enduring religious or ethical truth.
!!define veri-
@MattЭллен My pocket dictionary just isn't good enough for you.
14:21
$5 word?
telegrams charge by the letter
!!wiki Five_dollar_word
@KitFox The Gods of Wikipedia did not bless us
Hmm.
14:22
!!define God
@skullpatrol God The single deity of various monotheistic religions.
@KitFox No result found
!!define skullpatrol
@skullpatrol It means I aint got time to learn your $5 words
excuse me?
Don't you be going 'round with your high falutin' vo-cab-u-lary
It bain't be civilised
14:25
@MattЭллен bain't?
that's what I said
:D
It's a west country accent
whence the initial b?
!!define bain't
@MattЭллен bain't (UK, dialect) be not
Yay a high falutin is on the mississippi
14:26
from be I guess
that's what I thought. But then why the subsequent be?
too much hamlet
Ain't being well-behaved.
I don't know
It be not be civilised.
14:28
Don't worry, I don't blame you for all the odd and unusual dialects in England.
:D
phew!
that's a lot of responsibilty, right there
And we all know you're a responsible guy, but not that responsible.
I saw a werewolf drinking a piña colada at Trader Vic’s
Wow that's nice.
Never heard of bain't.
14:31
aye, well, it's not used s'much nomore
@Cerberus yeah, me neither
bain't be much call for it
Funny.
It sounds more like "be is not" than "be not".
yeah. I was thinking the same
and it needs a redundant be too...
be is not be
how illogical. /spock-voice
14:32
Oh, as in bain't be?
you can use it without the be, that's probably how it started, but then it morphed
I like it.
my fingers keep adding in extra letters to my words
oh, now they're taking them out!
how inconsiderate
Fingers suck.
14:47
Hmm there may be a problem with my hard disc.
Speed Fan reports some bad SMART values.
Rebooting to run chkdsk...
Hm, better back up your important porn
porn of the King and such
or self-made porn that isn't backed up by the various porn sites yet.
oh, and paleograporn
what, like "Naughty Tyrannosaurs in Pangea 5"?
14:52
Can I vent for a minute?
So remember about how I was bitching about the stupidity of pulling four coders off-task for two and a half hours because the bosses couldn't decide who needed to know where these files were located?
Well, while that meeting was going on, I was copied on an email from the director of the literacy programs to my big boss (who was in the meeting), wherein she said how successful her presentation had been and that there was a lot of national interest in the system and she wanted to meet with the big boss and talk about expanding the program.
Scuse me?
14:59
@KitFox sounds good
Then the dean (who was included in the email) replied to everyone praising the former project lead "for [his] significant contributions and efforts to the success of the endeavor".
ah, politics
And there was yet no mention of me, nor of including me in any meetings that have to do with planning this project that I am the only one on.
oh, of course. I mean peons will just pick up the slack
15:02
Nor will there ever be, since I am mere staff who built the damn thing and who keeps the damn thing running.
The big boss couldn't have made it clearer in the meeting that, like the former project lead, he sees what we do as something he could do if he weren't doing more important things.
Ugh, Windows says there are still problems with my hard drive.
Oh, well.
what gratitude
Bunch of assholes.
15:05
@KitFox Yeah. One lesson I've learned is once you find good middle management do everything you can to stay on their team.
They are rare.
If I get this new job, I hope it's better.
@MrHen hear, hear. This is the problem my wife is dealing with too. A succession of bosses, each more incompetent than the last.
I mean, there are always politics, but it would be so nice just to have people respect what I do professionally.
One of the biggest problems companies have is promoting good workers to middle management because they don't have an appropriate career path for workers. So they top out, get promoted, and then proceed to destroy the morale of everything they touch.
Yeah, the Peter Principle, innit?
15:12
!! wiki Peter Principle
The Peter Principle is a proposition that states that the members of an organization where promotion is based on achievement, success, and merit will eventually be promoted beyond their level of ability. The principle is commonly phrased, "Employees tend to rise to their level of incompetence." In more formal parlance, the effect could be stated as: employees tend to be given increasing responsibility and authority until they cannot continue to work competently. It was formulated by Laurence J. Peter and Raymond Hull in their 1969 book The Peter Principle, a humorous treatise, which also i...
Because someone who is, for instance, a really good coder, is not necessarily a really good manager of coders.
They are promoted based on how good they are at the job they do, rather than how good they might be at the job they would be doing.
So they get promoted into new positions until they are in one for which they have no adequate skills.
I don't understand why it's a promotion anyway. Should be a raise.
What?
15:18
in most corporations you can't get a decent (i.e. above inflation) raise without a promotion
@KitFox What you say.
A raise is more money. A promotion is moving up in the chain of command.
You done good, here money. Not you done good, go away do sometin else.
Oh. I see.
Yes.
@RegDwigнt So... speaking from the perspective of working at Microsoft, I had a manager tell me point blank that they are not interested in keeping people around if they are not trying to actively grow and accept more responsibilities over time.
15:22
That's silly. You should let people do what they are good at.
As in, they would rather have someone worse who will eventually grow into someone better than keep that one guy who is just happy doing his job.
growing and accepting more responsibility are not necessarly the same thing
For as long as they want to do it and be good at it.
I've grown a lot since starting my job, but I have no more responsibility
I keep trying to have more responsibility and always they say no.
15:23
Well, I'm not going to try and argue for their methodology. :P I just had a data point to add. :)
@KitFox Yeah, that's a good sign that it's time to jump ship.
:P
Easier said than done, I suppose.
Well, it's happened a few times, which makes me wonder if it's me.
@MrHen Oh, I have a second interview Thursday.
@KitFox Well, if you are the kind of person to wonder if it's you then it probably isn't.
@KitFox Congrats. :)
Haha.
you could say to your boss "I'm just as glad as you that [project lead] is gone. He was really holding us back. Now you can let me take the reins and really show you what I can do"
@MattЭллен That's a political minefield.
15:25
I have offered. But I am not, you know, faculty.
@MrHen yeah. it's good to blow things up, especially when they're precariously balanced anyway
So I couldn't possibly know how to dis-organize a project.
@MattЭллен I suppose different people approach the problem differently. ;)
I recently had something similar happen to me. I chose to leave the team and join a different one under the same company.
15:27
I feel a little twinge of something when the sideways boss talked about how they'd 'been hit by two buses' in the meeting.
I think it was glee.
I was thinking that they didn't know how much trouble they were going to be in.
If they thought it was difficult with the project lead leaving, wait until the one who actually does stuff leaves.
@KitFox That was kind of the reaction I got when I mentioned I was switching teams. They had an "oh, shit" moment.
Problem is, that it doesn't teach them anything.
They will still go on believing that this is unskilled work.
15:30
@KitFox But the great thing is, not your problem in anymore.
Yes. That is a great thing.
The good thing about Microsoft is that they have a pretty good bullshit detector in upper management.
At least, in my org they do.
Hmm how do I tell an element on a page to disregard a certain CSS attribute, specifically "top: 0px !important;"?
So middle management that sucks gets hit hard.
That's great! Here it is just more of the same.
15:32
@Cerberus You can't really override !important without another !important flag.
@MrHen Sure, I'll use !important. But how do I make the element not stay at the top of the page?
(I'm a total amateur.)
position: relative;
@Cerberus Hmm... usually if you have to do something like this it means your classes aren't working properly.
But yeah, otherwise use what Matt said.
or position: relative !important;
I'm making a userstyle for an existing web page.
@MattЭллен Ah thanks!!
15:33
Ah, bummer.
Then their classes are lousy. :P
Poorly designed CSS is a pet peeve. >:(
@Cerberus no probs!
It works!
Yay!
yay!
@MrHen yeah, it can make pages difficult to work with.
15:34
@MrHen Hehe. The page is just poorly designed all over: the top bar is there to annoy users.
@Cerberus Ahh...
If you just want to get rid of it entirely you can just turn it off :P
It reduces your vertical space everywhere, so you can't see as much text.
@MrHen Yes, that was my second option.
Lunch, later!
15:53
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 You don't want to be caught playing at that. The boss has no sense of humor.
 
2 hours later…
17:25
@MετάEd :x
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Look at Christopher Hitchens.
Wow. I can still see my last message.
17:42
we are getting that tomorrow I think
@JohanLarsson Oh, dear!
There has been a ridiculous amount of beep beep beep ing from outside this past couple of weeks.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The Nexus 5 will cost € 460 here, it's official. Available online (but not in Google's shop) on Wednesday.
17:52
We had 145 km/h today.
!!convert 145km
@KitFox 475721.7847f
That's not helpful.
So that's 90 mph.
So tropical storm.
17:54
Oh, the actual maximum was 152 km/h.
No, wait. TS is 50-75. So that's like a category 1 hurricane?
Or up to cat 2 already? I used to know when I lived in Hurricane Alley.
So 95 mph.
Thank God for high population density and therefore underground powerlines.
Except that you are below sea-level, which is a bad place to be when you are in danger of storm surge.
@Cerberus we measure wind in m/s. 40 m/s is insane.
I was in NC in 1999 when three hurricanes made landfall there in two months.
Category 1 seemed like hardly anything after that, but of course it is.
18:07
@JohanLarsson Hmm I wonder why. We normally only mention Beaufort. We had Beaufort 12 today, the maximum.
@KitFox That is not a problem.
The coasts are rivers are well protected.
It's just trees falling on houses and people and cars that are dangerous.
And some other objects, like cranes and stuff.
@Cerberus How does that compare to the N4 when it launched?
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The N4 took a lot longer to be officially available here, months. But then it was about the same price.
It's still stupid.
18:30
what's still stupid?
Hee hee
Is that a Bubo?
I can't remember the differences between Bubo and Tyto.
Coffee!
The internet didn't bother telling me the species of the animal used in its funny picture, sorry.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 This price differentiation, that we have to pay 50 % extra.
Yes, the cause is known.
What is the cause?
18:34
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 sighs, rolls eyes Kids these days. Noöne cares about the important things.
Or the combination of causes.
@KitFox I know. slackers.
@aedia Weren't you an OM appraiser?
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Ooh!
18:37
how's the house coming along? filled any rooms with lego yet?
@KitFox An Odyssey of the Mind judge? If that's what you mean, yes :)
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 People are prepared to pay a ton of money for specific brands, allowing Samsung, Apple etc. to have profit margins of up to 80 % or more. That's a 400 % mark-up. So I guess that's the basis. Then there are the Canadian and American markets where mobile telephony is extremely overprices and where phones are made cheap to be used as bait for those mobile plans. This forces Google to sell their unlocked phone somewhat closer to cost price (though still far above it) in those markets.
@aediaλ Yes, except now it's Destination Imagination, right?
@Cerberus So you're saying that Google lowers their price here, so that they can sell their phone at all, because they're competing with the carrier-subsidized phones? But in your country, they don't need to compete with that, so they just sell at the higher price?
It's a nice little story. Except that Google also sells its phones through the major carriers here too.
@KitFox The original Odyssey of the Mind also still exists, but it's smaller. Some states went mostly or wholly with DI.
18:39
Where they sell for $0.
@aediaλ Oh. Well, I signed my eldest up this year. And I'm gonna be a coach!
But we do DI here.
If I've done this:
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes.
 var interval;
        interval = setInterval('change()', 60000);
How do I make it stop?
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 What do you mean?
HAMMERTIME!
18:41
@Cerberus I mean Google could just do what Samsung does, which is to sell phones through the carriers, and not bother with the unlocked phone.
Yes, they could in theory do that. But so what?
$350 for a phone is still WAY MORE than what the average Canadian spends on a phone.
Yes, but $ 600 is EVEN MORE, and that's what we're paying.
@KitFox Funny. OotM survived down where I am. (We don't use "OM" anymore because some trademark kerfuffle during the DI/OM schism)
@KitFox Ooh coaching!
That's exciting.
So I don't think that's the reason for why they price it so low here. I think, rather, the reason they price it higher in other countries is that there is some barrier to them selling it themselves, so they sell through an intermediary, who raises the price.
18:43
Okay, but why do you think my reason isn't the reason?
And why couldn't they sell a phone in Europe? We have tons of phones for sale, many by small manufacturers that I think are hardly sold at all in Canada.
One thing to consider, though, is that the price in countries like Germany is € 100 lower than here, because they can buy them in Google's shop.
18:58
-1
A: "Why are there more of them" vs. "why is there more of them"

JeremyYou indeed use "are" because "them" is a plural noun.

Wow, this survived for a full month.

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