English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

KitFox

00:00

No, and which part is confusing to you?

Robusto

The WTF part.

Johan Larsson

the suspension part, I never noticed any problems here but I read only fragments of transcript

Robusto

Can you meet me in the rubber room for a few minutes?

2

KitFox

@JohanLarsson Well, it's nothing new really. It just needed repeating.

Johan Larsson

ok you read more of the transcript so I trust you to know better. I was surprised that it needed repeating though.

KitFox

00:07

Sometimes that is the case. I re-pinned it because it was accidentally unpinned.

Johan Larsson

why so transparent?

KitFox

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are asking.

Johan Larsson

the avatar, not important

KitFox

Oh. Haha. I forgot.

Sometimes I don't exist.

Robusto

Existence doesn't require visibility.

Johan Larsson

00:21

~~proof~~ link?

visibility implies existence at least no?

KitFox

It's symbolic.

looks annoyed

Johan Larsson

why/how symbolic? got interesting now.

KitFox

drags out box of angst Let me get my teenage digs on.

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Then everything you see when hallucinating actually exists?

Cerberus

One could argue that you don't see those things.

Johan Larsson

00:25

^ to the resque, I was about to give up

but then what do we see and the discussion evaoprates

KitFox

You see the things you hallucinate.

Johan Larsson

Think you see?

KitFox

There is no difference between thinking it and doing it.

It's in your brain. You "think" you see reality as well as fiction.

Robusto

@KitFox But you will agree that me hallucinating a hippo in my bathtub is not the same thing as an actual hippo in my bathtub.

Johan Larsson

If I close my eyes I will know I don't see what I see

KitFox

00:30

@Robusto Oh of course. But you see are actually seeing the hippo either way.

@JohanLarsson If you close your eyes, you are not seeing nor hallucinating.

At least, not visually hallucinating.

Cerberus

I often turn off my alarm clock in the morning, and yet it continues to ring.

Several times in a row.

I'm completely certain that I've turned it off. And yet.

Robusto

@Cerberus That's just your imagination. Go back to bed.

KitFox

Hallucinations are specifically misperceptions, or maybe you could say dysperceptions. They activate cortex just like a real stimulus.

Cerberus

@Robusto Yes. But I am conscious and the memory is identical to actually doing it while fully awake. It's just that my brain is acting within the confines of a temporary virtual machine.

It "feels" exactly the same.

Johan Larsson

sleepy now, nite

Cerberus

00:35

The only way in which it appears different or in by which I can test it is whether or not the sound stops.

Good night!

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Bai

KitFox

Night y'all. Behave.

Robusto

Later.

tchrist

01:55

Our troll is back:

-1

Q: On Your Time Watch

I don't understand some phrase in some video. At 0:55-0:59, the off-camera police officer (the one holding the camera) said: First of all, I am not on your time watch. I understand "on your time". But what would "on your time watch" mean?

As opposed to this troll by the buddy of @Cerb

@tchrist you know, just testing the site policy ;-) — jlovegren 2 hours ago

Cerberus

@tchrist I will not coöperate in this witch-hunt. I will treat a valid question as such, even if it's Norton.

tchrist

Then you’re going against site policy as specifically directed by the Powers That Be. Good luck with that, kiddo.

Mahnax

Evening.

tchrist

It evens.

Mahnax

Only sometimes.

tchrist

02:10

Well, the sun is westering.

Mahnax

At least it's not festering.

tchrist

Funny how it never easters.

Mahnax

Does it gesture?

tchrist

Nor nortons.

It westers only.

Mahnax

Wait, is Norton still at it?

tchrist

02:12

Indeed.

Every day.

Come rain or shine.

Mahnax

I mean, gosh.

tchrist

Yeah.

Madness is doing the same thing again and again but expecting you'll get a different result.

It’s been north of year now.

And daily.

Mahnax

I doubt they expect anything different. They probably just enjoy it for some strange, twisted, and utterly unknowable reason.

tchrist

Well, nightly, but you know what I mean.

He’s definitely twisted, that’s for sure.

The first westering cite in the OED is Chaucer, no less:

C. 1374 Chaucer Troylus ii. 906 - Þe sonne Gan westren faste.
1412-20 Lydg. Chron. Troy Prol. 136 - And Esperus gan to wester dovn, To haste hir cours ageyn þe morwe graye.
1412-20 Lydg. Chron. Troy i. 2674 - Vp-on þe point whan Phebus with his liȝt I-westrid is.

After which it was forgotten for nigh unto four centuries:

1790 Cowper Iliad xxiii. 195 - And now the lamp of day, Westering apace, had left them still in tears.
1837 Carlyle Fr. Rev. III. i. ii, - The Sun shines; serenely westering, in smokeless mackerel-sky.
1850 Dobell Roman ii. Poet. Wks. 1875 I. 36 - The little star..westers to its setting.
1889 Clarke Russell Marooned vi, - The moon was westering and looking over our foretopsail yard-arm.
1922 A. E. Housman Last Poems xxvi, - The half moon westers low.

Actually, that’s not true. That’s the sun/moon/stars sense.

There’s also a wind sense, which saw some currency betweentimes:

1580 H. Smith in Hakluyt Voy. (1589) 468 - The wind did Wester, so that we lay South southwest with a flawne sheete.
1628 Digby Voy. Mediterr. (Camden) 93 - The wind northered vpon vs. Att night it westered againe.
1699 T. Allison Voy. Archangel 11 - We..began to consider..as to our safety in that place, should the Wind Wester.
1823 Scoresby Jrnl. 373 - The wind having unfortunately westered.
1913 M. Roberts Salt of Sea x. 233 - The wind westered so fast that I nearly jibed the mainboom.

I believe Zephyr is the West Wind.

As was Boreas the North Wind.

Cerberus

@tchrist And that concerns me how?

Evening, Canada.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

02:18

Gentlemen.

Mahnax

Miss.

Cerberus

M'lady.

Mahnax

adjusts eyeglasses

tchrist

You can’t fight city hall.

Mahnax

On the other hand, city hall will happily bite you.

tchrist

02:19

And spite you.

The troll is vanquished. Long die the troll!

Mahnax

So, how is everyone? Alive? Kicking?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

►

tchrist

Only if we summon a lurking moderatrix. :)

Mahnax

tchrist

Wah.

That’s not fair.

Mahnax

02:25

Guess I should try being more American.

thinks hard about eagles

Nothing.

tchrist

I bet you’re too far inland for them to be swarming like pigeons.

Mahnax

I think I've seen two eagles in my life.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I bet this room wins across the network for chat edits.

tchrist

@Mahnax Whiteheaded or goldmantled?

Mahnax

@tchrist Um, eagle?

caw, caw

I have no clue.

tchrist

02:28

Did it have a white head?

Mahnax

The most recent one I saw did.

tchrist

And tail?

Ok.

Mahnax

…I think.

Gosh, I have no idea about the tail.

I've never seen one up close.

tchrist

Bald Eagle. Haliaëtus leucocephalus. White-headed sea-eagle. Something like that.

The Bald Eagle as a full 4+ year adult is a sexually monomorphic bird with both a white head and a white tail alike.

Likes water. Eats fish.

Mahnax

Sounds like tchrist.

tchrist

02:31

Hm.

Mahnax

giggles

tchrist

I wonder just how wicked you’re actually being there.

Mahnax

Not wicked at all, I promise.

tchrist

Ah ok. I don’t have to brush my teeth then.

Cerberus

@Mahnax Odd. Even I can see it.

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Okay, okay, you win!

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

02:35

:D

tchrist

I saw 14 bald eagles, not counting eaglets, one day of the third week in May of this year.

I was boating on the wide open part of the Mississippi just north of the mouth of the Wisconsin at Prairie du Chien.

They were nesting.

> The bald eagle builds the largest nest of any North American bird and the largest tree nests ever recorded for any animal species, up to 13 ft deep, 8.2 ft wide, and 1.1 tons in weight.

> Bald Eagles will also congregate in certain locations in winter. From November until February, one to two thousand birds winter in Squamish, British Columbia, about halfway between Vancouver and Whistler. The birds primarily gather along the Squamish and Cheakamus Rivers, attracted by the salmon spawning in the area.

The map suggests they only migrate through your area. That’s too bad.

Oh my goodness:

0

A: Is it alright to use lowercase "i" or should you always use "I" (uppercase)?

My English teacher taught that as with any first letter of the first word of any sentence, "I" too is capitalized, and its contraction "I'll" the same. However, inside the sentence lower-case is acceptable. EX: (A) "I'll see you at 6pm." (B) "John, while you're getting the BBQ ready, i'll go for...

Someone needs to remove the mentioned English “teacher”’s licence.

Mitch

03:01

@MετάEd B can't pole back out A's eye...because he's blind and can't find A at all!

MετάEd

@Mitch B's eye socket is gangrenous and A can easily track him by smell.

Mitch

@MετάEd like, everywhere? or more accurately 'coont' with 'oo' as in 'book'. Or does she have a glottal stop in there?

MετάEd

@Mitch She has an "n". "Coonent."

She grew up in Brooklyn it turns out. Maybe it's Brooklyn accent.

Cerberus

> protected by Cerberus just now - This question is protected to prevent "thanks!", "me too!", or spam answers by new users. To answer it, you must have earned at least 10 reputation on this site.

Aren't you proud?

Mitch

@MετάEd OK, then everybody loses anyway. Ick.

@MετάEd oh. that doesn't sound 'regional' just ...hmm... like teenagers?

MετάEd

03:11

@Mitch And I think I heard her say "dint" for "didn't".

Yeah, it does sound a bit young. And basically it puts me off. The evil stepmother queen shouldn't be saying "shoonent".

I guess she doenent know better.

Or at least when she was making the series she dint.

Mitch

@MετάEd I've heard that before. I interpret that as an aversion to glottal stops (either over articulating, or sliding right through).

MετάEd

@Mitch I've heard it too. It was a bit strange to hear it when it was so out of character. But I can't find that pronunciation discussed anywhere, not so far anyway.

Surely there's at least one academic who's looked at it.

I suppose I could pose the question.

KitFox

03:26

I wasn't lurking.

Although I suppose there is more than one moderatrix.

O0oO0oOO0ooO

I just scored 98 / 100 in TOEIC listening test but I got this score in my second attempt on a test I have already tried. Previously, I got around 90 / 100 =D. I think TOEIC exam is all about getting familiar with solving questions

WendiKidd

@KitFox Hey, you. :)

KitFox

Hiya.

MετάEd

@KitFox.

@O0oO0oOO0ooO The primary thing tests measure is test-taking ability.

WendiKidd

@MετάEd Haha, what a descriptive message xD

MετάEd

03:33

@WendiKidd It's my chatroom version of a smile and nod.

WendiKidd

@MετάEd Ahh, I see.

KitFox

Mετα.

MετάEd

I like to acknowledge people even when I have bupkes to say.

KitFox

Damn that took way too long to type, and I couldn't figure out the diacritical.

MετάEd

@KitFox It's really annoying when I want to search chat for something I said.

WendiKidd

03:35

@KitFox Oh hey, did you guys decide if you guys want this one or not? It was the cross post where they posted to ELU then ELL a few hours later; I figure it needs to get migrated one way or the other to be merged. english.stackexchange.com/questions/121126/…

KitFox

This is the fifth night in a row that I can't sleep.

MετάEd

But I just can't quite talk myself into getting rid of the greek letters.

KitFox

@MετάEd you can use your user number instead.

MετάEd

@KitFox Need a bonk on the noggin?

@KitFox Yes, and I can't recall if I mentioned my bad memory.

KitFox

@MετάEd probably. Also, smaller fingers.

WendiKidd

03:36

@KitFox Aww I'm sorry. I haven't been sleeping well lately either, I can sympathize. gives you warm milk and blanket and hopes you sleep

MετάEd

@KitFox Wax in the ears?

KitFox

@MετάEd you can find it when you hover over your chat name, or In the address bar on your chat user profile.

MετάEd

@KitFox It's true. I could always waste a chat message.

KitFox

@MετάEd nah, I'm just using the iPad, so ...

MετάEd

@KitFox Oh. yeah, the iPad probably has very tiny aural canals.

KitFox

03:38

@MετάEd or right click.

@WendiKidd thanks.

@WendiKidd it was closed here so I sent it to you.

WendiKidd

@KitFox :) okay, thanks! I didn't notice the closure. tyvm! hope you get some rest.

KitFox

I thought I would practice Russian. @Reg says that it will kill me and if poetry is to be believed, that's quite a lot like sleeping.

MετάEd

@Mitch This pronunciation is showing up in writing. Google: couldn't coulnent

Interestingly that search also returns results for coulnet, and that seems to be the common respelling of the word.

KitFox

Who is this you are talking about? Some girl in a tv show?

MετάEd

@KitFox This actor:

6 hours ago, by MετάEd

Lana Parrilla

Lana María Parrilla (born July 15, 1977) is an American actress, known for her roles on Spin City, 24, Windfall, Swingtown and Miami Medical. From 2002-2003, she starred in the critically acclaimed but short lived crime drama Boomtown. She currently stars as The Evil Queen/Regina Mills in the ABC series Once Upon a Time. Early life Parrilla was born in Brooklyn, New York, the daughter of a Sicilian mother and a Puerto Rican father Sam Parrilla, a baseball player who played professionally for 11 seasons (1963-1973) including one season with the Major League Philadelphia Phillies in 1970 a...

KitFox

03:45

Do you have a link with her talking, or did you figure out her dialect?

MετάEd

But really I'm talking about a way that couldn't, shouldn't, etc are pronounced.

@KitFox The only thing I have is that she's from Brooklyn.

But I don't know if that's characteristic of Brooklynites.

She says counet, wounet, shounet.

KitFox

Brooklyn, Sicilian, Puerto Rican.

MετάEd

And I've heard that somewhere before.

Yes, Sicilian mother, Puerto Rican father, right? I would love to be a fly on the wall when they have a family argument.

KitFox

I'd say Puerto Rican influenced English has that.

I can't believe the stupid autocorrect did not capitalize English for me, but corrected Sicilian to silicon.

MετάEd

@KitFox I don't know any Puerto Ricans but that's a great start at an explanation.

Cerberus

03:49

That's horrible!

What kind of autocorrect do you use?

Oh, but I guess you had mistyped Sicilian.

Then it's not so bad.

MετάEd

I see various people out there posting and spelling the word coulnent, coul'net, and coulnet. Probably spelling the way they sound.

KitFox

Whatever the built-in iPad thingy is. And no, I didn't misspell Sicilian.

MετάEd

@Cerberus No, it's something Barbie said.

"Never go in against silicone when death is on the line."

KitFox

@MετάEd that's interesting. I was thinking of the nurse in Scrubs, although she's supposed to be Dominican.

WendiKidd

@KitFox I wish autocorrect had a "reset" button, and also a way to add words to the dictionary whenever you wanted

KitFox

03:53

The actress who plays her is from the Bronx.

And it seems she really is Dominican.

MετάEd

@KitFox I suppose they think nobody knows the difference.

Whenever anybody puts UNIX into a movie they screw it up. I figure the same is true of everything else that I am no expert in.

And I suppose they think nobody knows the difference.

KitFox

She had a song about it on the show.

►

Cerberus

This is about eugenics, and the general category that eugenic programmes (like those of Nazis, Communists, and many others) act against is "the weak" and "the undesirable", as perceived by whoever controls the programme. I should think we had all learned our lesson in the 20th century with respect to eugenics, by the way: it may sound neat in the abstract, but it becomes terribly cruel and inhumane when you consider it is about real people, and...you could be next, whoever you are. — Cerberus 3 mins ago

@WendiKidd I use Autohotkey for that, and it can do all that (on Windows)...

WendiKidd

@Cerberus Have you seen the movie GATTACA?

@Cerberus ehh, I need it for my iPhone though!

Cerberus

@WendiKidd No?

@WendiKidd Oww poor you, then you're probably lost...

In Android, you can edit the user dictionary that is used for autocorrect.

I regularly remove words I will never use anyway but that interfere with words I do use.

WendiKidd

04:07

@Cerberus It's about genetic engineering and a society where anyone who isn't genetically engineered is a lower class... It's scifi and there are these two guys that look alike and one's genetically engineered and the other isn't... I don't want to say more because spoilers, but it's a really good movie. Anti genetic engineering philosophy overall, great perspective on human nature. Incredibly sad, but, you know. Some are.

Cerberus

And I set it not to auto-add words I type: it would add so many typos! I need to confirm any addition.

WendiKidd

I highly recommend you watch it.

Cerberus

@WendiKidd Ah, sounds nice!

WendiKidd

imdb.com/title/tt0119177

Cerberus

I wonder how one would go about stopping it, though?

WendiKidd

04:08

@Cerberus Welll....... You'd have to watch the movie. There are a lot of great twists and I'm not explaining it well because anything else I could say would be spoilers.

I think you'd enjoy it, we could discuss it afterward :)

Cerberus

Haha OK! Noted for future watching!

WendiKidd

I don't often recommend movies, but...this one. xD

Haha okay, sounds good!

All righty then, it's bedtimes for me. See you all later!

Cerberus

Good night! You're wise.

Mahnax

Oh, Gattaca!

That film is incredible.

I second the recommendation.

Cerberus

So you've seen it, too, huh?

I feel...surrounded.

Mahnax

04:21

intensely chants

It's a good film.

Cerberus

Put away your pitchforks!

I don't think I've ever watched a Hollywood film at home.

But I must admit the plot sounds interesting.

Mahnax

You should watch this one. I actually watched it in Biology class.

Cerberus

Oh, that's pretty cool.

Mahnax

Yeah. Not a single person in the class disliked it.

And our teacher was pleased as punch about the whole thing.

Cerberus

I can imagine.

Mahnax

04:29

Anways — robot voice — watch the movie.

Cerberus

flat ears

Mahnax

pets second and third heads

I only have two hands, you know. You shouldn't have bitten off my third one that one time.

Cerberus

Aww I'm sorry, are you still not over that?

I was just in a snappy mood.

Mahnax

Well I did lose a lot of blood.

But I guess I forgive you.

Cerberus

I carried you to the hospital...

Mahnax

04:42

Well, yeah. And Animal Control almost carried you off.

Cerberus

And made them install the bio-chip instead.

Mahnax

But you bit a couple of them and made off for the Gates.

Cerberus

Ugh, Animal Control.

Mahnax

You showed them.

Cerberus

Yeah, they are just a nuisance.

Robusto

10:08

@RegD : In the following sentence, "Außerdem fanden die Forscher heraus, dass das von außen zugeführte Hormon sich vom körpereigenen unterscheiden lässt," I'm trying to understand how körpereigenen is used. Is it reflexive, kind of like "the body itself"? (If so, why not use sich?) Also, it appears to be a noun, so why isn't it capitalized? Typo or some construction I don't get?

tchrist

10:19

0

Q: "A man who is his own lawyer has a fool for his client"

"A man who is his own lawyer has a fool for his client" I have checked online and found that http://www.answers.com/topic/a-man-who-is-his-own-lawyer-has-a-fool-for-his-client I still hesitate and need to understand it better. What does "A man who is his own lawyer has a fool for his client" me...

proverbs

Yeah, I get up too early. But gosh, proverb interpretation?

> “A cat may look a king.”

> “A nod’s as good as a wink to a blind horse.”

> “Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.”

Matt Эллен

also: first google hit

tchrist

> “A little learning is a dangerous thing.”

> “A word to the wise is enough.”

> “A miss is as good as a mile.”

> “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”

I think that one is about inflation.

Matt Эллен

"a stitch in time saves nine"

tchrist

Cats?

> “Ask a silly question and you'll get a silly answer.”

Matt Эллен

Burgundy

tchrist

10:27

> “Chastity begins at home.”

> “Cut your coat to suit your cloth.”

Matt Эллен

So... Chastity was conceived at home?

tchrist

> “Cast not pearls before swine.”

> “Don’t teach your granny to suck eggs.”

> “Faint heart never won fair lady.”

Matt Эллен

> "Guys don't make passes at guys who wear glasses"

tchrist

> “It’s only one step from the sublime to the ridiculous.”

> “Good fences make good neighbours.”

> ”Handsome is as handsome does.”

Matt Эллен

> "It hurts when I do this." "So don't do that."

tchrist

10:30

> “If at first you don’t succeed, give up and go home: no use being a damned fool about it.”

Matt Эллен

> "Every cloud has a silver lining"

tchrist

> “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.”

> “In for a penny, in for a pound.”

> “’Tis an ill wind that blows no one any good.”

> “Let not the sun go down on your wrath.”

Matt Эллен

> "Don't eat yellow snow"

tchrist

> “Little things please little minds.”

> “Many a mickle makes a muckle.”

Matt Эллен

> "Great minds think alike. Small minds barely differ"

tchrist

10:33

> “Marry in haste, repent at leisure.”

Matt Эллен

> "Measure twice, cut once."

tchrist

> “One man’s meat is another man's poison.”

> “Only fools and horses work.”

> “Parsley seed goes nine times to the Devil.”

Matt Эллен

> "Mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun"

tchrist

> “Rain before seven, fine before eleven.”

Matt Эллен

> "The devil makes work for idle hands"

tchrist

10:35

> “Red sky at night, shepherd’s delight; red sky in the morning, shepherds take warning.”

> “Shrouds have no pockets.”

Matt Эллен

> "Don't Panic."

tchrist

> “Softly, softly, catchee monkey.”

> “Take care of the pence and the pounds will take care of themselves.”

> “The apple falls never far from the tree.”

> “The best-laid schemes of mice and men gang aft agley.”

Looks like that one did, too.

> “The early bird catches the worm.”

> “The husband is always the last to know.”

> “The only good Indian is a dead Indian.”

> “The proof of the pudding is in the eating.”

> “Oft evil will shall evil mar.”

> “There are more ways of killing a cat than choking it with cream.”

> “There’s nowt so queer as folk.”

> “Two blacks don't make a white.”

> “Walls have ears.”

> “What you lose on the swings you gain on the roundabouts.”

> “When the oak is before the ash, then you will only get a splash; when the ash is before the oak, then you may expect a soak.”

> “Where there’s muck there's brass.”

> “You can’t run with the hare and hunt with the hounds.”

> “Youth is wasted on the young.”

> “If ifs and ands were pots and pans there’d be no work for tinkers.”

> “Fine words butter no parsnips.”

> “Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes.”

Matt Эллен

> Time and tide wait for no man

tchrist

It does.

> “Step on a crack, break your mother’s back.”

> “He who hesitates is last.”

> “Bad company corrupts good morals.”

> “All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.”

Matt Эллен

10:53

> "No beer and no TV make Homer something something."

tchrist

> “Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.”

> “Mackerel scales and mares’ tails make tall ships carry low sails.”

Matt Эллен

> Loose lips sink ships

tchrist

> “Make hay while the sun doth shine.”

> “Brush your teeth afterwards.”

> “The darkest hour is just before dawn.”

> “The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.”

> “There’s many a slip ’twixt cup and lip.”

> “Trouble shared is trouble halved.”

> “You can lead a whore to culture, but you can’t make her think.”

> “All I need is room enough to lay a hat and a few friends.”

> “Brevity is the soul of lingerie.”

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…