English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Jez

10:04

heh, just when you think doctor's surgeries in the UK can't get any worse, they do

Matt Эллен

what's happened?

Jez

i'm getting to the stage where i'm thinking we need some serious private competition

well they're constantly trying to turf me out because im on the edge of their catchment zone for one thing

Matt Эллен

that's annoying. I hate the catchment zones

Jez

i get my repeat prescriptions posted to the pharmacy near where i work. i have to provide the envelopes and stamps for this

the NHS's billions a year don't cover it

Matt Эллен

I move a mile down the road and I have to change surgery?

@Jez lolwhut?

Jez

10:06

so they accidentally threw out 6 SAEs I gave them, i had to give them 6 more

they tell me i don't need to stamp them as they will provide the stamps coz they threw out the last ones

Matt Эллен

how generous!

Jez

today, i got through to the practice manageress on the phone. nope, i have to send them the goddamn stamps too. it aint their policy to ever provide them. i was lied to in person by their braindead staff

she even had the gall to say they were sending out my prescriptions by post "for free" presumably implying i should be thankful to them

Matt Эллен

WTF! that's crap.

Jez

if this were a private system, these dickheads would be out of business by now. they have such a smug sense of self-righteousness and entitlement

but the NHS just throws money at them

oh and of course now we hear that GPs want to charge patients to go and see them, heh

Matt Эллен

rofl

Jez

10:09

yeah because they're so underpaid at the moment

Matt Эллен

well if that happens then private health care will seem like the better option.

Jez

seriously, the NHS needs to lose its reputation and get some serious scrutiny. i'm sick (no pun intended) of the assumption that they're somehow wonderful

i can't even easily find out where i'm meant to go to complain about the surgery. it feels like they have no accountability

Matt Эллен

I think your local council? I'm not sure

Jez

see, you're not sure

no wonder they get away with crappy treatment of patients

of course, i haven't even touched on how ludicrous it is that they have to send a phyiscal piece of paper to the pharmacy each month.

utterly ludicrous, there should be a centralized computer system for prescriptions but we know how good the government are at those

Matt Эллен

True, true. Plus we have all our records centralised, now. It can't actually be that hard.

Jez

10:12

they even fax the thing to the pharmacy for convenience... then send the actual thing in the post

it's GOT to be the very INK that the doctor SCRIBBLED on it!!

i could write them a decent centralized computer system in a year but then I'm not Crapita

Matt Эллен

Yeah, I mean , the doctor could have forged his own signature

Jez

erm what?

Matt Эллен

exactly

Jez

they don't deserve billions a year. i say reduce NHS funding, still have a safety net for those who can't afford private healthcare (which is the real problem the US has, it lacks that), and promote private healthcare

reward surgeries that treat patients well, let crappy ones go out of business

my dentist is significantly better. i acknowledge i might have a problem if i had less money or needed more treatment.

NHS should be nothing more than a safety net, but like the BBC it's become this monster that tries to do way too much

well maybe the NHS was actually intended for that in the first place

like the BBC, times have changed and it no longer works well in its current form

Matt Эллен

but if you means test who gets NHS health care then people will fall through the gaps. You'll get exactly what America has now. loads of people in the middle who don't have healthcare

Jez

10:17

i wouldn't means test who gets healthcare, but I'd seriously restrict it to nothing more than crucial treatment

Matt Эллен

That sounds plausible

Jez

probably like the "public option" they were talking about in the US.

you can choose to go with the government, or someone else.

government would always be there but would probably be shit

but at least it would be something

meanwhile most people could get a better experience

and they shouldn't have to pay (much) toward the government healthcare system. maybe a bit.

but i'm kinda starting to see the argument for privatization. healthcare is too important to fully privatize, but not partially

David Wallace

@Jez Works for us!

Jez

how do you mean?

David Wallace

We have free shitty government-provided healthcare. Those of us who can afford it, or who have medical insurance tend to buy our healthcare from private providers. That is what you said, right?

Jez

10:24

in the UK?

David Wallace

No.

Jez

so where??

David Wallace

New Zealand. The system here mostly works. The government will also fund treatment from a private provider for injuries that result from accidents.

Jez

what about what we would call a GP?

David Wallace

No

Jez

10:34

a general doctor you go to for non-emergencies? usually book an appointment

David Wallace

I mean more expensive stuff. The government doesn't completely fund GP visits here.

Jez

yes but how does the GP system operate? catchment zones?

David Wallace

No. You can sign up with any GP who will take you. Of course, you would not sign up with one who is not near your home. The government subsidises it but doesn't fund it completely.

Jez

@DavidWallace but you might stay with one if you have a rapport with the doctor

David Wallace

You might, yes.

Jez

10:36

how about repeat prescriptions? do you have them and how do they work?

David Wallace

I'm not sure. I don't usually need them.

Jez

some surgeries here require you to physically come in every month to fill out a piece of paper requesting this month's repeat prescription.

they even say that phone or email requests are not allowed

David Wallace

Here, you don't have to go back to the surgery. I think the pharmacies have an integrated computer system, so that when you get the first prescription, the repeats are registered, and you can then collect them from any pharmacy.

Jez

unsurprisingly, sounds more advanced than the NHS

but then, banging two rocks together is

Mahnax

11:25

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Food in Finnish.

Johan Larsson

knew that, not the spelling though

Matt Эллен

@JohanLarsson I've given it a try (just installed VS 2012 express). It looks good to me. I'll have to try and figure out how to get it into our app and give it a proper going over

Johan Larsson

I was interested in how it compares in speed to ddd et al. lazy here

Matt Эллен

I'll let you know when I've figured it out myself :D

Johan Larsson

You saw that you can change number of points and frequency right?

Matt Эллен

11:30

yeah

64k is a good value. I put it down to 100ms, and it seemed to be OK

Johan Larsson

I tried 64k and 100 ms did not know how to evaluate it really

Perhaps it is a poor choice of graph(s)

Matt Эллен

I'm gonna try an exponential decay function with pseudorandom noise

Johan Larsson

I cached all the calculations since they are not really interesting for the graph performance

the test is just throwing data at the control

you want write access and a fork?

Matt Эллен

@JohanLarsson I've just tried it with noise and it's really slow. Maybe even slower than ddd

Johan Larsson

oh, good to know then

Matt Эллен

11:41

The window stops responding in normal time :(

Johan Larsson

Is it sharable?

Matt Эллен

I can paste the change. it's only to the Update Number of Points function

Johan Larsson

pushing to a branch is easier?

Matt Эллен

heh. OK :D

I've accidentally made a lot of (insignificant) changes trying to get it to work in VS2010, so that should be fun for you

Johan Larsson

np it is just a throw away thing

added you now, created a noise branch

Matt Эллен

11:47

cool. I just commited to master. how do I roll back?

Johan Larsson

no idea :D

I can try to make a sinus branch and commit the old one

Robusto

@robusto this is not a private chat room. I'm not trying to be abrasive; I think you make plenty of good contributions to this site, and I don't want to get in a tiff with you. This is ELU, though. JLU and chat rooms both exist. (What I meant about "Kanji" is that if you'd spell it out, even as furigana, I'd be happy - although that's still not really appropriate, is it?) // Is the first one/pair "omoshiro(i)"? // Note that when YO uses non-English, he makes it clear what he means with translation and/or transliteration. — hunter2 1 hour ago

Gee, I love being taken to task by newbs.

@hunter2: Maybe you should have initiated a private chat, then, instead of trying to upbraid me in public. In any case, it ain't your place to do that. — Robusto 3 mins ago

Matt Эллен

@JohanLarsson it's cool I've pushed the code to noise (I think)

Johan Larsson

I also did something not sure what and what the result was :D

Matt Эллен

heh. I spelt noise with a lowercase n

github.com/JohanLarsson/OxyPlotBenchmark/tree/noise

Johan Larsson

12:02

struggling with checking out a branch here :D

not much fun to suck

Matt Эллен

git checkout noise ?

Johan Larsson

I'm using gui

Matt Эллен

ah :D

Robusto

Do you have to have a space before a right-angle bracket in xaml elements if there are no attributes? I.e., <label >? Or can you just write <label>?

Matt Эллен

I'm gonna head home. bbl

Johan Larsson

12:04

no space

Matt Эллен

@Robusto no space required.

Johan Larsson

Starting with WPF?

Robusto

Didn't think so. There is one in your OxyPlot thingy, though.

Johan Larsson

what is the difference between thing and thingy?

I give up with git for now, gonna cry for a while

tchrist

@JohanLarsson y

Robusto

12:08

@JohanLarsson Thingy is an informal term you use when you want to distance yourself from something or express (confess) general ignorance of a topic. Especially the latter.

It can also be used as kind of a mild put-down, though it wasn't in this case.

tchrist

A thingy can be like a whatchamacallit.

Or a whatzit.

Robusto

Yeah. But whatchamacallit is, I think, more straightforward.

tchrist

It’s also babytalk for penis.

Robusto

Thingy, not whatchamacallit.

tchrist

Aye.

Johan Larsson

12:11

nice, ty sirs

Robusto

But if someone brought me an ugly, unfamiliar plant as a housewarming gift, and that person and I had had bad blood between us and this gesture were rejected by me, I might tell him, "Get out of my house and take your thingy with you."

Johan Larsson

not 'that thing with you' in that case?

Robusto

You could say thing as well. Thingy would be to turn it into a diminutive for an added measure of contempt.

tchrist

@JohanLarsson That’s ok, especially if you stress thing in a pejorative tone.

Johan Larsson

thingy does not sound angry enough to mee

tchrist

12:14

No, nor to me.

Robusto

No. But it is dismissive and condescending in a way that a stressed thing is not.

tchrist

Contraption can work for a mechanical thing, but not for a biological one.

Robusto

In any case, we're into fluid expression now, and there are no hard and fast rules.

tchrist

You know, I don’t think we have pejorative terms for plants.

A critter could be a beast or a monster.

Robusto

"Get out of my house, and take that—whatever that is—with you." Another way to disparage the gift by expressing "justified" ignorance of what it is.

tchrist

12:17

You’d have to resort to name-calling I think, like calling it a weed or something. Hm. This is odd.

Animals you don’t like are varmints.

Robusto

Yes, you'd have to use some plant that works in a pejorative context: weed or bracken or fungus, etc.

@tchrist Or vermin.

tchrist

He’s got the IQ of a house plant.

@Robusto Fungi are back to being plants again? :)

Robusto

But "house plant" is not really pejorative in the context of a plant; only when compared with human intelligence or something else for which it's not suited.

tchrist

Mold.

Robusto

@tchrist Broadly speaking, yes, in that context.

tchrist

12:21

A yeast infection.

Mildew with an attitude.

Why no hate for plants?

Robusto

Well, you can call someone a "clinging vine" and that would be pejorative.

tchrist

Kudzu.

Cooties.

Robusto

Cooties are animals. Lice, to be specific.

tchrist

Hm.

They aren’t just little coots? :)

Robusto

A coot is a lovable old codger who may be a friend.

Mitch

12:24

@tchrist weed

KitFox

weeeeeeed

Mitch

duuuude!

Robusto

Also " Any of several dark-gray aquatic birds of the genus Fulica of North America and Europe, having a black head and neck, lobed toes, and a white bill."

tchrist

OED has “A silly person, simpleton.” for coot.

Robusto

Well, that's kind of an archaic usage.

tchrist

12:25

> 1. A name originally given vaguely or generically to various swimming and diving birds. In many cases it seems to have been applied to the Guillemot (Uria troile), the Zee-koet or Sea-coot of the Dutch.

Mitch

underbrush

Robusto

As is so much in the OED.

Mitch

The overbrush just has better style.

Robusto

"I've got a burr under my saddle." There's a pejorative plant term.

Mitch

I think 'saddle' is a euphemism.

Robusto

12:26

@Mitch No. When brushing teeth, you use an overbrush for an overbite and an underbrush for an underbite. QED

tchrist

> 2. Afterwards restricted in literary use to the Bald Coot (Fulica atra, fam. Rallidæ), Meer-koet of the Dutch, a web-footed bird inhabiting the margins of lakes and still rivers, having the base of the bill extended so as to form a broad white plate on the forehead (whence the epithet bald8); in U.S. applied to the allied *F. Americana; and generically extended to all the species of Fulica.

> 2b. b Proverbial phrases. as bald (bare, black) as a coot; as stupid as a coot (this and the epithet ‘mad coot’ may have originally applied to the Foolish Guillemot).

> 3. Locally applied (with distinctive additions) to the Water-rail and Water-hen or Gallinule.

> 4. fig. [Cf. (def#2) (def#b).] A silly person, simpleton. (colloq., dial., and U.S.)

Mitch

@Robusto I think you made my point for me. Quick: which one would win in a cage match fight - overbite or underbite?

Obvously the spectatoros!

Same as at a bull fight.

Robusto

If it were a cage match, I'd use a dental drill.

tchrist

> 5. Comb., as coot-foot, a name given by some to the Phalarope; coot-footed a., having feet like a coot’s; hence coot-footed tringa, a name given by Edwards to the red or grey Phalarope Phalaropus fulicarius; coot-grebe, a name given by some to the Fin-foot or Sun-grebe Heliornis.

Mitch

I'd use a dental dado. Efficient and precise.

Johan Larsson

12:29

@KitFox I wrote something for your friend, thought it was going to be 30 minutes of fun, turned out to be pain and some learning :D

tchrist

1848-60 Bartlett Dict. Amer., - Coot..is often applied by us to a stupid person; as, ‘He is a poor coot’.
A. 1852 Mrs. Whitcher Widow Bedott P. (1883) ix. 33 - He’s an amazin’ ignorant old coot.
A. 1860 Margaret 134 (Bartlett) - Little coot! don’t you know the Bible is the best book in the world?
1929 W. Smyth Girl from Mason Creek i. 17 - You’re a clumsy coot.
1963 Daily Mail 26 Aug. 4/2 - Masters call boys ‘coots’ and boys call each other ‘nits’

Robusto

@Mitch Nah, you'd be more likely to use a dental dildo.

tchrist

@Mitch Dado? Dodo? Dildo?

jinx

Robusto

Jinx.

!!/jinx

tchrist

jinx**2

Caprica Six

12:30

tchrist

Mine is more powerful.

But a bit square.

KitFox

@JohanLarsson You're welcome.

Johan Larsson

jinx/0

tchrist

Illegal division by 0.

Robusto

A square is just one of an infinite set of rectangles.

KitFox

12:31

I haven't heard back from this guy who contacted me about doing a project. I don't know if I should press the issue. It's been a whole day.

Mitch

@Caprica needs a mod for a humungo bottle of champagne for double jinx

Robusto

Go ahead, call him up and show how needy you are. That's always a turn-on.

tchrist

cootie [ˈkuːtɪ], sb.[entry#2] slang. Also kootie.
Etymology: ? f. Malay kutu parasitic biting insect.
A body louse.

KitFox

@Robusto I wasn't going to call. I thought I might send him an email.

Mitch

@KitFox The rule is 24 hours.

KitFox

12:33

He was supposed to send me some stuff so I could scope the work.

Mitch

The meta rule is that rules can be modified every 24 hours.

KitFox

But I don't think he's done this before.

tchrist

> Lice have been the subject of significant DNA research in the 2000s that led to discoveries on human evolution. For example, genetic evidence suggests that pubic lice were acquired by human ancestors from gorillas approximately 3-4 million years ago.[17] Additionally, the DNA differences between head lice and body lice provide corroborating evidence that humans started losing body hair about 2 million years ago.

Mitch

The meta meta rule is that you can only invoke one meta rule at most once in any 24 hour period.

Robusto

The rule is 24 hours, but you don't contact until COB the following day, to give them time to organize whatever they're doing that doesn't concern you.

tchrist

12:34

@Mitch s/only//

Mitch

'acquired'?

KitFox

@Robusto Which would be today. But it's Friday. Maybe I'll write a draft today and send it on Monday.

Mitch

@tchrist s//only/g

Robusto

For example, if I talked to someone at 9:00 a.m., and they said they would get something to me that day, I'd give them until end of day tomorrow before I responded.

Mitch

"onlyonlyonlyonlyonlyonly...Tonlyonlyonly....honlyonlyonly...."

KitFox

12:35

I talked to him Weds at close of business.

If I send him something today, he'll forget by Monday.

Robusto

@KitFox Better plan. That way he's fresh and you have the added weight of his shame working in your favor—Omigod, I meant to do that last week!

Mitch

Then remind him Monday if you're slightly interested.

Robusto

Yeah, never expect action on something you send Friday afternoon.

KitFox

But I do need to get this stuff offloaded from my brain, so draft today.

tchrist

onlyTonlyhonlyeonly onlymonlyeonlytonlyaonly onlymonlyeonlytonlyaonly onlyronlyuonlylonlyeonly onlyionlysonly onlytonlyhonlyaonlytonly onlyyonlyoonlyuonly onlyconlyaonlynonly onlyoonlynonlylonlyyonly onlyionlynonlyvonlyoonlykonlyeonly onlyoonlynonlyeonly onlymonlyeonlytonlyaonly onlyronlyuonlylonlyeonly onlyaonlytonly onlymonlyoonlysonlytonly onlyoonlynonlyconlyeonly onlyionlynonly onlyaonlynonlyyonly only2only4only onlyhonlyoonlyuonlyronly onlyponlyeonlyronlyionlyoonlydonly.only

People often misplace only.

Robusto

12:37

Friday afternoon, though, seems to be the preferred time for people to come by and try to give me a core dump on some project. I just laugh and tell them to put it in writing or talk to me on Monday.

tchrist

Because there are so many possibilities.

KitFox

@Robusto I know, right?

Mitch

haha. I went on the presumption that there are a countably infinite number of empty strings between each character in a string.

Robusto

Yeah, like at 4:30.

KitFox

"I need you to pull this data so I can write the report that was due Weds over the weekend. It's really critical."

tchrist

12:38

@Mitch Yes, but the Engine needs to make progress, so bumps by one upon each zero-width match.

Mitch

But that's only a meta rule, not a meta-meta rule. Unless it is a meta^\omega rule.

tchrist

SIGQUIT — core dumped.

Mitch

@tchrist oh it'll definitely make progress, but only if you start processing from the back end.

tchrist

Back-end processing is what I do.

KitFox

OK, but one more question, which is do I send the rate with the proposed scope, or after he's agreed on the scope?

I'm thinking after.

Mitch

12:40

Oh shit money is involved?

tchrist

That’s in an interest-bearing account.

KitFox

Yeah. Another client!

Mitch

Hm...yes...real life dilemma.

KitFox

And I'm pretty sure he's not contracted code work before.

Mitch

So it really is a real world meta problem, to act coy or not.

KitFox

12:41

And I've never worked with people I don't know before.

tchrist

Perhaps he was immunized.

KitFox

Possibly.

suddenly remembers she's never had sex with a virgin

I don't know what I'm doing.

Mitch

be gentle?

KitFox

It will be a learning experience.

tchrist

@KitFox Not once you get done with them, no.

Robusto

12:42

@KitFox What, you never played with yourself before you lost your virginity?

KitFox

@Robusto That doesn't count.

Robusto

It did for me. Countless times.

tchrist

This question is getting no traction. Does it need to move to ELL? It’s using ESL terms that NS seldom know.

0

Q: Factual conditionals: simple present or future?

At times I find it difficult to decide whether to use a zero conditional sentence or a first conditional. Would you mind helping me with the following example: If they want to get there fast, they ....... (take/will take) the express train. Thanks!

@Robusto Only once, same as with Kit.

Once you’re done with yourself, you’re no longer a virgin. Well, if you do it right.

KitFox

I suppose I popped my own cherry, but that wasn't sex.

Why are we talking about this again?

Oh right. The job.

tchrist

The normal excuse is horseback riding.

KitFox

12:45

@tchrist Yeah, maybe.

@tchrist Hard to use if you don't ride horses.

Robusto

Ok, then dog riding.

Yay, I'm taking a DAY OFF today! Don't hate me for my freedom!

KitFox

1

Q: What is the meaning of " as clear as a bell " ?

What is the meaning of " as clear as a bell " ? I met this expression long time ago but I have forgotten what does it mean .

expressions

Robusto

...

KitFox

Why is this open? Isn't it gen ref or at least "show me a lot more research"?

Robusto

I voted to close as gen ref.

tchrist

12:51

@KitFox I haven’t trawled through the list yet this morning.

Robusto

But I really wanted to bring out the WTF reason.

tchrist

Nor trowelled through it.

Robusto

> Literally it refers to the fact that bells are loud and have a sound with a relative lack of overtones, giving a "clear" sound.

This guy needs to have more experience with bells. No overtones? Sheesh.

tchrist

Let alone trulled.

Robusto

In fact, quite the opposite.

KitFox

12:52

I can't stand it. I'm going to write this scope out.

Robusto

Unless we're talking Japanese bells, which are designed to reduce the overtone series.

tchrist

How does that work?

Robusto

But you can actually demonstrate the overtone series with flared bells. Touch your finger to one part of a ringing bell's outer curve and you'll hear that particular overtone disappear.

tchrist

@KitFox What’s with people putting spaces on the inside of their quotation marks lately?

I was in a bell choir once upon a time.

Robusto

Incidentally, that's why woodwind and brass instruments have flared "bells" at the ends. Because they produce more overtones.

A recorder, which has no belled ending, produces a purer fundamental.

KitFox

12:55

@tchrist Me too.

Robusto

Yeah, bell choirs are boring.

tchrist

We had an awesome carillon tower at school, too.

Robusto

Carillons are cool, though.

tchrist

That one’s mine.

Robusto

"This is my bell tower! There are many like it but this one is mine! Without my bell tower, I am useless. Without me, my bell tower is ueseless!" Etc.

tchrist

12:57

I loved when it would ring.

Oh noes, not a gun!

Robusto

Rifleman's Creed

The Rifleman's Creed (also known as My Rifle and The Creed of the United States Marine) is a part of basic United States Marine Corps doctrine. Major General William H. Rupertus wrote it during World War II, probably in late 1941 or early 1942. All enlisted Marines learn the creed at recruit training and they are expected to live by it. Different, more concise versions of the creed have developed since its early days, but those closest to the original version remain the most widely accepted. Original text In popular culture * The Rifleman's Creed is featured in the 1987 film Full Metal...

tchrist

> A carillon (/ˈkærɨlɒn/, /ˈkærɨljɒn/, or /kəˈrɪljən/; French: [kaʁijɔ̃]) is a musical instrument that is typically housed in the bell tower (belfry) of a church or other

Robusto

I love the ambiguously worded ending: "So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace!" Yeah, peace is the real enemy to the armed forces, right?

tchrist

Who the hell says anything but the first?

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