English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

00:01

My goodness, I’ve just repcapped three days running. Haven’t done that in a spell.

Robusto

When do you get your Epic badge?

tchrist

Long ago.

Well, not too long, but still.

Robusto

Nah, not too long. April 7.

tchrist

@Reg got his after me.

Robusto

I got mine about 3 months after I joined this site.

At the time it was the only one, I believe.

tchrist

00:07

You joined after me. You’re 2303, I’m 2085.

But I did nothing for a year.

Robusto

I did it all in about 8 months, then coasted. Now I'm not even doing that.

Just isn't interesting anymore.

tchrist

No shit.

Robusto

For a while I was into the game of it, but there are funner games to play.

tchrist

I have a new close reason.

This question appears to be off-topic because it belongs on another site in the Stack Exchange network: English Language Learners. — tchrist 20 mins ago

Since they won’t let us choose that, we can choose it ourselves, the bastards.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Up-triangled.

Robusto

00:12

@tchrist You know it's pure spite on their part.

tchrist

@Robusto Absofuckmelutely. Did you miss the bastards part?

Reg has been migrating a lot of them lately.

40 over the last three months.

Robusto

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 You could as easily have up-deltaed it.

tchrist

Or closevoted it for the same reason, which also upthingies it.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto Right now I might have even up-pizzaed it.

eats pizza

tchrist

Huzzah!

Robusto

00:18

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Why are you always out to make me hungry?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto Oh, I'm at home.

tchrist

Dr Strangelove’s breeder daughter wants to be a Senatrix.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto You like pepperoni & jalapeño?

Robusto

@tchrist OK, that's too obscure even for me.

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Who doesn't?

tchrist

Liz Cheney.

Robusto

00:20

Who gives a fuck about Liz Cheney?

tchrist

Exactly.

Kinda urks me.

That she’s gonna do this crap.

The problem is, she’ll probably win.

Robusto

Do what crap? I think I missed a memo.

tchrist

Run for Senate.

Robusto

Oh FFS.

tchrist

In Wyoming, which has more Senate seats than House ones.

Robusto

00:21

What redneck state is going to ...

Well, I guess I should have known.

tchrist

Here

Robusto

@tchrist Like a lot of the red states. Look at South Dakota, Idaho, etc.

Hell, there are more sheep than people in South Dakota.

Except that's true of most places, I guess, metaphorically speaking.

tchrist

Gives ’em somethin’ to do.

> Cheney cites the national debt, gun rights and foreign policy as her primary areas of interest.

Bah.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto ideally, it would also have feta.

Robusto

And olives.

tchrist

00:24

Kalamata.

Robusto

@tchrist And puppies. And long walks on the beach.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@tchrist and puppies. And long walks on the beach.

tchrist

She’s the only beach in Wyoming.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

rimshot

tchrist

rinzes mouth

Robusto

00:26

I got two speeding tickets in one day in Wyoming.

But it's an absolutely gorgeous state. I'll give it that.

tchrist

Didn’t learn your lesson, eh son?

I think you told us this once.

Robusto

Prolly.

tchrist

Parts are very boring.

Parts are to-die-for gorgeous.

Robusto

Aug 14 '12 at 0:28, by Robusto

We had to go through the east exit, which meant we had to drive to the middle of Wyoming, then south, then back west to get back to Salt Lake City where the airport is. Imagine driving from Amsterdam to Berlin, then down to Frankfurt and across to Toulouse. Roughly the amount of driving, though the scenery is better in Wyoming, I think.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Can't you already go 80 up there, like in Texas?

Robusto

00:27

Actually more than once. I'm become a Wyoming bore.

tchrist

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Was 75 last time I checked, just like everywhere.

Robusto

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 This was in the recent unpleasantness, when 55 was everywhere.

@tchrist That's only on interstates. I wasn't on an interstate at the time.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto no no, I can't drive / 55

tchrist

And Texas is 85.

Robusto

And Utah is whatever you can get away with.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

00:29

That whore.

Robusto

I know, right?

She sleeps with Nevada. You know it's true.

tchrist

Utah is 80, but yeah, you do 120 on I-70 once you’re out of Green River going west.

Robusto

It is well that the really big, boring states have high speed limits. Recognizes the human need not to be bored among rednecks for too long.

tchrist

Best cut it to 100 going east, though.

Robusto

@tchrist I was doing 130 until I realized it might heat up the tires too much.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

00:30

O_O

tchrist

Yeah, I’ve done that there.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I get scared around 70.

tchrist

Gets a bit bouncy.

The hot pavements eats up tires when you go fast. Not sure how that works.

Robusto

Wasn't bouncy. This was in an Infiniti. But a wave of common sense swept over me. Doesn't happen often, but there it is.

I was doing 120 on that stretch of I-80 in the Bonneville salt flats and cars were passing me regularly. Even pickup trucks were passing me.

55 miles of dead level, dead straight road. Who wouldn't let 'er rip?

tchrist

@Robusto Got yes, I know.

That’s why they call them the Bonneville Speed Flats.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

00:33

tchrist

I’ve driven that like 20 times.

Robusto

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 haha. Simpler times.

tchrist

The states with 75 are Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, and Wyoming.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto Jesus Q. Butterfat!

tchrist

What’s wrong with you Easterners? Trying to live forever?

Robusto

00:34

@tchrist Did you ever drive it in late afternoon on a hot summer day, when the salt shines from the heat like a mirror? It's like driving through the sky. I think I've mentioned this before, but it is one of the most remarkable things I've ever witnessed.

tchrist

Absolutely.

KitFox

Maine is recent and only on the highway north of where anyone lives.

Robusto

Absolutely vertiginous.

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 I didn't know Jesus had butterfat content. Now I have another excuse not to partake.

tchrist

Metaphor: The Tree of Utah

Metaphor: The Tree of Utah, sometimes called the Tree of Life, is an sculpture that was created by the Swedish artist Karl Momen in the 1980s and dedicated in 1986. It is located in the desolate Great Salt Lake Desert of Utah on the north side of Interstate 80 about 25 miles east of Wendover. The sculpture, which is constructed mainly of concrete, consists of a squarish 'trunk' holding up six spheres that are coated with natural rock and minerals native to Utah. There are also several hollow sphere segments on the ground around the base. The sculpture currently has a fence surrounding th...

KitFox

And bai.

Robusto

00:36

This is it, but in person it's grander.

tchrist

Much.

Robusto

Like those pictures you take of the Grand Canyon, and then you get home and look at them and go "Hey, this isn't what I saw."

tchrist

You need a whole wall.

And a wider aspect ratio.

It needs to fill your field of vision.

Robusto

Even then. The vastness of it cannot be captured in a small rectangle.

tchrist

Stand closer to the wall. :)

Robusto

00:38

But the wall doesn't have depth and atmospheric perspective and all that.

tchrist

"Camera" "phones".

> Inscribed on the plaque are the words from Ode to Joy by Friedrich Schiller; also used as the chorus of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. It has been said that Momen was moved to create the 87-foot-tall (27 m) tree after having a vision of a tree while driving across the desolate Bonneville Salt Flats.

Spiral Jetty

Spiral Jetty is an earthwork sculpture constructed in April, 1970 that is considered to be the central work of American sculptor Robert Smithson. Smithson documented the construction of the sculpture in a 32-minute color film also titled Spiral Jetty. Built on the northeastern shore of the Great Salt Lake near Rozel Point in Utah entirely of mud, salt crystals, basalt rocks and water, Spiral Jetty forms a , counterclockwise coil jutting from the shore of the lake. The water level of the lake varies with precipitation in the mountains surrounding the area, revealing the jetty in times o...

That’s another one.

Apparently making gigantic Burning-Man–style “art” is the in thing to do in the desert.

> Sun Tunnels is located in the Great Basin Desert outside of the ghost town of Lucin, Utah. The work is a product of Holt’s interest in the great variation of intensity of the sun in the desert compared to the sun in the city.

> The work consists of four massive concrete tunnels (18 feet long and nine feet in diameter), which are arranged in an “X” configuration to total a length of 86 feet (26 m). Each tunnel reacts differently to the sun, aligned with the sunrise, sunset, of the summer or winter solstice.

> The tunnels not only provide a much-needed shelter from the sweltering desert sun, but once inside the dazzling effect of the play of light within the tunnels can be seen. The top of each tunnel has small holes, forming on each, the constellations of Draco, Perseus, Columba, and Capricorn, respectively.[6] The diameters of the holes differ in relation to the magnitude of the stars represented.

Robusto

Boring.

tchrist

> Egypt's interim leader swore in a Cabinet on Tuesday that included women and Christians but no Islamists as the military-backed administration moved swiftly to formalize the new political order and present a more liberal face that is markedly at odds with the deposed president and his supporters.

There are going to be people upset by that.

Maybe even dangerously so.

Robusto

Well, they can always have yet another Arab spring.

I'm OK with the women, but can they ease up on the Christians a little?

tchrist

> For most of the two years since the overthrow of autocrat Hosni Mubarak, the country has been split into two camps — one led by Morsi, his Muslim Brotherhood and its Islamist allies, and another led by secular Egyptians, liberals, Christians and moderate Muslims.

Perhaps that’s why the West has been pussyfooting.

Frankly, I would like to see an Egypt that weren’t yet another Islamist tinderbox.

That region needs a good example of such to look up to.

Egypt is really the best candidate for it.

If they get the chance.

Robusto

00:51

@tchrist I wouldn't want to hang from a rope till that happens.

tchrist

> In a first, Mansour also swore in a leading figure in Egyptian soccer as sports minister. Midfielder Taher Abu Zeid starred in Cairo's el-Ahly club and the national team in the 1980s. He was a member of the national squad that won the African Nations' Cup in 1986.

“Sports minister”?

> Prime Minister Hazem el-Beblawi, an economist in his 70s, leads the government of 33 other ministers.

Robusto

Why not?

tchrist

That’s too big a cabinet.

If 12 was good enough for Jeebiz, it’s good enough for Pharaoh.

> Women have a somewhat higher profile in the government, with three ministries — including the powerful information and health ministries. Most past governments for decades have had at most only two women. The Cabinet also includes three Christians, including one of the three women, Environment Minister Laila Rashed Iskander. That is also a first, since successive governments had no more than one or two Christians.

That is pretty reflective of the Egyptian populace.

About 10% are Christians. And 10% are women. And there’s some overlap there.

Robusto

@tchrist I wonder if the name Iskander comes from Alexander.

tchrist

Yep.

> Iskandar or Eskandar (Arabic: اسكندر‎) is the Arabic version of the name Alexander, after Alexander the Great, reinterpreted (cf. rebracketing) as Al Exander. It is used as a male first name in Middle East, Central Asia and South Asia (where it is derived as Sikandar).

Robusto

01:06

Interesting.

tchrist

> Alexander in the Qur'an sometimes is identified in Persian and Arabic traditions as Dhul-Qarnayn, Arabic for the "Two-Horned One", possibly a reference to the appearance of a horn-headed figure that appears on coins minted during his rule and later imitated in ancient Middle Eastern coinage.

> Accounts of Dhul-Qarnayn in the Qur'an, and so may refer to Alexander. Noteworthy is the fact that his favorite horse was named Bucephalus, which means "bull's head", alluding to the shape of a horned bull at its forehead.

> Alexander is also known in the Zoroastrian Middle Persian work Arda Wiraz Nāmag as gizistag aleksandar, "Alexander the accursed", due to his conquest of the Persian Empire and the destruction of its capital Persepolis and burning the sacred texts of Zoroastrianism.

Hah.

> He is known as Sikandar (سکندر), Iskandar (اسکندر), and Eskandar-e Maqdūnī (اسکندر مقدونی "Alexander the Macedonian") in New Persian, al-Iskandar al-Makduni al-Yunani[4] ("Alexander the Macedonian Yunani"), الاسكندر الاكبر, al-Iskandar al-Akbar ("Alexander the Great") in Arabic, سکندر اعظم, Skandar in Pashto.

Hm, lost one.

> אלכסנדר מוקדון, Alexander Mokdon in Hebrew, and Tre-Qarnayia in Aramaic (the two-horned one, apparently due to an image on coins minted during his rule that seemingly depicted him with the two ram's horns of the Egyptian god Ammon), الاسكندر الاكبر, al-Iskandar al-Akbar ("Alexander the Great") in Arabic, سکندر اعظم, Skandar in Pashto.

> The Shahnameh of Ferdowsi, one of the oldest books written in modern Persian, has a chapter about Alexander. It is a book of epic poetry written around 1000 AD, and is believed to have played an important role in the survival of the Persian language in the face of Arabic influence.

> Alexander is described as a child of a Persian king, Daraaye Darab (the last in the list of kings in the book whose names do not match historical kings), and a daughter of Philip, a king. However, due to problems in the relationship between the Persian king and Philip's daughter, she is sent back to Rome. Alexander is born to her afterwards, but Philip claims him as his own son and keeps the true identity of the child secret.

The secret identity motif.

Robusto

►

Why would you play this with an orchestra?

►

I mean, come on.

Sacrilege! J'accuse !

tchrist

Weird.

Cerberus

01:22

Hello.

I wonder what you guys think of Linus Torvald's style.

arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/…

People are complaining about his rude behaviour.

Robusto

@Cerberus I think he is entitled to give his audience the middle digit. Hey, nobody told them they had to stick around.

Cerberus

On the one hand, the complainant sounds awfully PC and trying to do the common trick of stringing things together under a single label that is much worse than the things it covers, like calling threats violence, and calling verbal abuse violence too. On the other, he is hostile towards some people on a personal level.

@Robusto Well, does that mean he can call people names?

Robusto

People call people names all the time.

Water off a duck's arse, if you ask me.

Cerberus

But is it objectionable?

Robusto

Who cares? Don't we have bigger fish to fry?

Cerberus

01:26

All right, then don't read the article.

Robusto

The world is going to hell in a Humvee and all we can talk about is what an asshole Linus Torvalds is?

Worse, I just found out Leonard Bernstein desecrated one of my favorite Beethoven quartets.

Why is nobody talking about that?

Alraxite

Does anyone know what 'walk it by me' means? I don't remember the context. I heard it in some video.

Maybe it's not a proper phrase...

tchrist

@Cerberus He’s fine.

She’s just being a protocol droid.

I do not see anything where Linus actually threatened someone with physical violence.

I do not believe he would seriously do that.

I do know him.

Cerberus

@Alraxite The same as "run it by me" and "go over it with me": "tell me about it in detail", something like that.

tchrist

People do change, or act weird under duress, but still.

Cerberus

01:40

It is a metaphor: you "walk" along an account or text as in you talk about it, explain it in sequence.

@tchrist Did you read what I said?

tchrist

> On her blog, Sharp pointed to two other e-mails from Torvalds containing language such as "Mauro, SHUT THE FUCK UP!" and "Rafael, please don't ever write that crap again."

I don’t find the citation above too extreme.

Sometimes people need to be told that.

Cerberus

@tchrist Of course it depends on context, but on the face of it that does sound hostile and not very nice.

And unnecessarily nice.

tchrist

Nice is not the goal.

Cerberus

You can be firm and clear without being hostile.

tchrist

It is only the means. And only sometimes.

Alraxite

01:41

@Cerberus Oh, that makes sense. Thanks!

Cerberus

Shouldn't nice always be the goal?

tchrist

No.

Cerberus

@Alraxite Good luck!

@tchrist How about ethics and etiquette?

tchrist

Nice is not a goal.

Cerberus

It is one of the goals.

tchrist

01:43

> Sharp's e-mail quoted statements from Torvalds such as "Have you guys seen Greg? The guy is a freakish giant. He should scare you. He might squish you without ever even noticing"

BFD. She’s being a twat.

Cerberus

If nice is not possible when you're trying to accomplish a more important goal, then, sure, it may have to cede. But that is rarely the case.

@tchrist Read on.

tchrist

I read the whole thing. Twice.

I stand by my statement.

Cerberus

My first reaction was the same, but what he says later to/about Greg is an insult.

tchrist

He’s a human being. He doesn’t do corporate kiss-ass.

There’s nothing wrong with that.

To the contrary, actually.

It makes him a hero to a lot of us.

Cerberus

So when should you be polite, and when shouldn't you?

tchrist

01:45

Too Broad.

Cerberus

@tchrist I agree about that part. But that doesn't mean he has to be personally hostile.

@tchrist Not really. I have told you what my position is.

tchrist

I bet that in context, he’s not out of line at all.

Cerberus

It is possible...but on the face of it it seems unlikely.

2 mins ago, by Cerberus

If nice is not possible when you're trying to accomplish a more important goal, then, sure, it may have to cede. But that is rarely the case.

Do you disagree?

tchrist

Of course not.

Cerberus

5 mins ago, by Cerberus

You can be firm and clear without being hostile.

tchrist

01:47

Not going to be drawn into that.

Not enough context.

But it sure sounds to be like she’s being a cunt.

Cerberus

I agree that she sounds obnoxious.

And at least partly wrong.

24 mins ago, by Cerberus

On the one hand, the complainant sounds awfully PC and trying to do the common trick of stringing things together under a single label that is much worse than the things it covers, like calling threats violence, and calling verbal abuse violence too. On the other, he is hostile towards some people on a personal level.

tchrist

He may well have just cause. Can’t judge without missing context.

Cerberus

@tchrist You're an asshole and you deserve to go to hell because of your stupidity. Would you rather I said that, or "I strongly disagree; your argument lacks merit"?

tchrist

I’m sure this will come up elsewhere.

Cerberus

I'm sure the latter is possible in any situation where the former is possible.

tchrist

01:50

@Cerberus You don’t believe in Hell, O Guard-dog thereof.

Cerberus

I'm here.

tchrist

“Kernel Dev Tells Linus Torvalds to Stop Using Abusive Language”

Better.

Cerberus

@tchrist That thread is awfully defective in many ways.

People committing the same misdeeds they blame others for and failing to understand the messages they are replying to.

tchrist

> The English have mastered delivering withering insults very politely. Simply being polite does not make you "nice". Is it more "professional" to wrap your disdain for an idea in language that is courteous on the surface? Maybe. Is the emperor going to change? Unlikely.

> They got nothing on the French. Voltaire's criticism led to suicides. But regardless, this represents a change in Linus' historical behavior. It could just be stress, or it could hint at the onset of a mental illness. Increased aggression, changes in mood or attitude, impaired judgement, black and white or "us versus them" thinking... while many might chalk this up to poor manners on the internet, it could hint at something more substantial.

Led to suicides? Really?

> In the type of circles I move in, I really only think I've witnessed the following three attitudes when it comes to dealing with/confronting failure:

> 1. People who'll call you a fucking idiot

> 2. People who'll call you a pusillanimous carbuncle with the intellectual capacity of a particularly forlorn used condom

> 3. People who won't really tell you whether you've fucked up or not, but will often go away thinking you've failed, and acting upon it, without giving you the chance to learn from your mistake or even show you you made one, all under the guise of "politeness" or "professionalism"

Your choice.

I normally choose #2. On occasion, #1. Never #3.

Cerberus

No, I pick 4: telling people directly that and why you disagree with them.

tchrist

01:59

> That's the spirit. Greg has taught you well. You have controlled your fear. Now, release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy me. Come to the dark side, Sarah. We have cookies. — Linus

Heh.

Cerberus

Attacking their person or character is unnecessary and harmful.

tchrist

That’s great.

Context counts.

Look at the quote of his to her.

It’s the right tone.

> As far as most technical people go, I'd go so far as to call him highly eloquent, and I don't see what's ineloquent about the occasional "fuck". He didn't even use that this time, he was merely telling people in his own sardonic way that they need to rattle sabres once in a while, and his response to Sarah's email was spot-on, deadpan, and attempting to defuse the situation.

That.

I bet I’m right about the cunt thing.

Cerberus

I don't even get what point Linus was trying to make in that reply to her.

tchrist

02:17

> Anyone who has worked with her in her capacity as the USB3 driver majordomo knows what a PITA she can be. I don't think she is in any position to offer advice on professional behavior.

Cerberus

No need to attack her. I already disliked her.

tchrist

02:53

The Soviet Erotic Alphabet, circa 1931.

> Also take a look at Brett Reynolds' answer. It is good from a syntactical point of view.

From here:

1

A: "An other" vs "another"

Here is a general rule of thumb: if you mean "a different [noun]", then it is more appropriate to use "an other"; if you mean "an additional [noun]", then it is more appropriate to use "another". So in your example you should use "But it won't transform it to an other format." Also take a look ...

I dunno why, but for some reason all this referencing other people’s answers to the same question that first-comers so often do feels funny to me.

@Reg Is this how you learned the alphabet?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

03:20

@tchrist Jesus Q. Butterfat!

'night.

Cerberus

This is hilarious.

In no other Western country except France would you see such a score. Heck, not even in France.

Maybe in Greece.

tchrist

Why?

What’s wrong with your countries?

If you do not like your country, perhaps you should move somewhere else.

Well, that or fix it.

Cerberus

National pride is not considered culturally acceptable in many places.

Liking your country doesn't mean you would say you are "proud" of it.

tchrist

03:41

How very very sad.

It’s a good thing to be proud of one’s mother and father.

There is no sin there.

Cerberus

Well, you are probably aware of the fact that in your country, too, the left is less nationalist than the right?

Cerberus

04:06

Ohhh this is brilliant:

►

An commercial for a sex line advertising the capabilities of the NSA. It's 2 minutes and hilarious.

To convince any people who don't care about privacy as much.

Even @Kit may be inclined to listen to this girl's take on voyeurism...

Noah

04:22

Hi

Noah

04:40

Hi

@Cerberus

You there?

tchrist

04:56

@Cerberus You appear to confuse nationalism with patriotism. That’s a shame.

Noah

05:09

What's the difference?

Even if there are differences, I think there are many overlaps between the two, dont you think so?

If you are a patriot it means you are a nationalist.

@tchrist

What's the adjective of machinery?

Mechanical/

David Wallace

07:48

@Noah I like using "machine" as an adjective.

Jez

08:54

Anyone else having trouble with Youtube lately? Half the videos I try just do not load

they just sit there on 0:00

RegDwighт

Happens to me every now and then. Though for the most part Flash simply crashes. This is at work, at home everything's working fine.

This has been going on for several months, until a couple days ago our admin clicked something somewhere to switch from Flash to HTML5. I think that fixed it.

@tchrist no, but perhaps that's how @robusto should learn it. He'd speak Russian in no time.

Stack Exchange

10:59

Limerick Machine: A grasshopper sat on the lawn And gave an incredible yawn Its mouth was so wide A fly flew...

posted on July 17, 2013 by sgdi

A grasshopper sat on the lawn And gave an incredible yawn Its mouth was so wide A fly flew inside Which made the grasshopper forlorn

KitFox

11:46

@Cerberus Nope, still not.

Johan Larsson

Is resetted a word?

Some parameters are resetted on exit

just reset is probably better

KitFox

Just reset, yes.

KitFox

12:04

Good morning.

Robusto

@RegDwighт Too late. I already know the alphabet. Is the rest of the language like that?

KitFox

12:21

I think so.

Mats Granvik

Old riddle:
What is the answer to this question?
Popularly on the Internet you are advised to answer "What". But if that is the case then the question was not a question: "What is the answer to this question."
So some questions are simply not answerable. They are paradoxes or meaningless statements.

KitFox

I see.

tchrist

-3

Q: Which is appropriate and grammatically right: "on the portal or in the portal"

Which is appropriate and grammatically right: "on the portal or in the portal" , "in the tracker or on the tracker" How to determine if we have to use in or on for abstract ideas?

prepositions

That got 5 migration votes to close it.

Not that we can migrate it.

But it did.

Mats Granvik

double "to this"

*

KitFox

@tchrist I told you to flag them if you think they should be migrated.

tchrist

12:25

It’s hard to get five flag votes.

KitFox

@tchrist I only need one.

So that I can look at it.

@MatsGranvik ftfy

Mats Granvik

Thank you for the edit.

KitFox

Sure thing.

Mitch

@tchrist yeah...what's the difference?

KitFox

Nationalism is bad, patriotism is good.

tchrist

12:34

@Mitch differencebetween.net/language/…

Mitch

I think that is making up an arbitrary distinction. Like sympathy and empathy. Or Bloods and Crips.

KitFox

Arbitrary? Nothing arbitrary about the difference between sympathy and empathy.

Mitch

Except that it's made up.

KitFox

looks cross

Mitch

sets jaw

KitFox

12:40

All words are made up at some time or another. Doesn't mean they aren't valid.

Mitch

I'm being philosophical here and you better damn well accept it.

'Cow' was not made up. or 'heifer'. useful distinctions.

I don't find much useful distinction between nationalism and patriotism.

One you're flying a flag smiling, the other flying a flag frowning.

KitFox

Somebody at some point made up the word cow.

Mitch

I don't think so.

grinds teeth

KitFox

And it is a useful distinction. I don't argue politics with nationalists.

crosses arms

Wait, I can't type like that.

digs in heels

Mitch

yeah cuz patriots are too dumb to be able to argue.

Snap!

Patriots are just the nationalists that are nice to their kids. Unless they date someone whose parents are from somewhere else.

Nationalists are just patriots with an extra gun hidden behind the refrigerator.

oh shit..that's where I left it

@KitFox Oh. I can't read.

KitFox

12:53

Well.

I see.

Mitch

Anyway the point is, yes, two words, two different meanings, but the difference is that one is the 'nicer' side of something and the other the meaner one, but it's still the same coin. pride and love and such of country

and there are good aspects and bad aspects.

KitFox

Yes, but how else am I to feel superior?

My country loving isn't like that guy's country loving. His is dirty and obscene, and mine is beautiful and romantic.

2

Mitch

oh there's no monopoly on smugness based on nationality. one can be smug for so many reasons .

hah ha. yes. the red and the black.

I can be smug making a literary ...

oops!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

morning

Do you ever get that feeling that life has been subtly disrupted and will never go back to normal?

Mitch

Oh. Sorry, that was me.

toggles some switches

How is it now?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:58

hard to say. it's pretty subtle.

Mitch

I actually think it is the heat.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I think it's the family illnesses, the renovations, the wife's surgurey, the kids going on vacation, and the fact that for 6 weeks now I haven't slept in my own bedroom.

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