English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

00:00

Ugh chat has a bad bug.

It ate several of my messages.

So even Fairphone get most of their parts from China.

We should never have let it come to this.

China has been sponsoring its own industry while keeping our products out of its own market.

And so it has largely 'outcompeted' our important industries and destroyed them.

Robusto

@Cerberus If you haven't seen it already, you should check out the series KAOS on Netflix. It's a modern comedic take on the Greek pantheon.

Cerberus

Oh, good to know.

I don't have Netflix, though.

Robusto

@Cerberus Surely one of your friends does.

Cerberus

I only used to watch the occasional series with my ex.

I never watch television with friends.

Robusto

Ah, too bad.

Cerberus

00:05

But will keep it in mind.

tchrist

@Robusto Americans tend to have friends over to their place a lot more frequently than Europeans tend to. That said, I cannot remember any time in the past several decades that I've watched TV at someone else's place or had someone come over to mind and do the same.

Europeans more often meet friends outside their homes in some public space.

Cerberus

Really, you think Americans visit each other more frequently than Europeans?

Europe is a big place.

With huge variety.

I have never heard that; people visit each other regularly.

It depends on the person and the dynamic.

But when I have friends over we have dinner, or we play a game, or we chat over drinks; we don't watch television together.

Many couples do it, though.

tchrist

@Cerberus Exactly.

Every now and then we'll go out to the cinema together. But to sit around and watch TV when you could be socializing seems weird to me.

Roommate would be different.

@Cerberus Worried about Israeli-style supply-side explosive tricks? :)

Cerberus

00:26

@tchrist It's hard not to watch when you live in the same room.

But, yes, people living together will do this. Or probably very young people.

tchrist

@Cerberus "Roommate" doesn't always mean bedmate. You might just live in the same house or apartment.

Cerberus

@tchrist Worried about losing the capacity to produce what we need.

@tchrist Bedmate?

tchrist

"live in the same room"

Cerberus

Bedmates share a bed.

Roommates share a room but need not share a bed.

tchrist

So one room with multiple beds? Sounds like barracks.

Cerberus

00:28

Flatmates share a flat.

tchrist

Well, that's not how the word is used here.

Cerberus

@tchrist Well, very few people share a room except sometimes asylum seekers. Rarely students.

@tchrist Why, though?

tchrist

@Cerberus Because why would it mean anything other than someone who resides at the same address?

roommate

Noun: roommate (plural roommates)

A person with whom one shares a room, as in a dormitory, barracks, rooming house, or apartment.
(US, Australia, New Zealand, Philippines, Canada) A person sharing the same home albeit not the same room (but generally not a family member or spouse).
Synonym: (Australia) sharemate
Hyponyms: flatmate, housemate
(LGBTQ slang, humorous, ironic) A same-sex significant other with whom one lives; a coinhabitant in a non-heterosexual relationship.

Cerberus

Because the word room is in it, and some people share a room?

tchrist

See, everybody but the cold islands.

Well, that's just not how we use it.

Cerberus

00:31

But why not?

tchrist

Why not why?

There's almost never a "why" in language.

Cerberus

It would seem contradictory with what -mate normally means.

Flatmate, bedmate, tent mate.

tchrist

We don't have many other mates.

Cerberus

It means you share something.

tchrist

See, "flatmate" isn't even a word here.

Cerberus

00:32

But it ought to be.

Surely you agree that words on -mate normally mean you share it?

tchrist

You'd have to round up everybody in American, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the Philippines and send them off to a linguistic concentration camp for reprogrammmming. :)

If you rent a sleeping space at the same postal address as somebody else, you're roommates.

Cerberus

Good idea.

2 mins ago, by Cerberus

Surely you agree that words on -mate normally mean you share it?

tchrist

It doesn't matter whether it's a house or an apartment.

Cerberus

Bunk mate?

tchrist

That's for bunk beds, like in private schools or camps or military and such.

Cerberus

00:35

Each person has his own bunk?

tchrist

Yes.

Except perhaps on a submarine?

But bunk beds are usually two-storey affairs; sometimes three.

Cerberus

I believe a bunk is normally two beds.

So you share the bunk.

tchrist

Quite possibly.

Cerberus

2 mins ago, by Cerberus

Surely you agree that words on -mate normally mean you share it?

Do I need to recurse myself again?

Perhaps I had better recuse myself.

tchrist

@Cerberus You just aren't going to get 400 million people to change how they talk, and if you don't like it you can continue to use words with them that DO NOT MEAN that to them, and then where will we be?

Cerberus

00:38

That isn't my point.

tchrist

You're being obstinate about something that you didn't know existed. This happens as we get older. :)

Cerberus

I think it is a bad word, and you seem unwilling to admit that it is inconsistent.

Probably originating in a mistake.

tchrist

Nobody NOBODY is going to use manysyllabled word when a simple word will do.

apartmentmate, condominiummate

Cerberus

I rest my case.

tchrist

Which is why it's always all just a roommate.

Sometimes you do hear housemate.

But the other words do not exist. They're too long. Nobody would say them.

And remember that people use house to mean those other things, too.

alphabet

00:41

There are plenty of English words that don't make sense. But yes, if you share an apartment with someone, they're your roommate.

tchrist

People who share a checkbook are checkmates.

People who share brothers are bromates.

2

alphabet

I have heard room on its own used to mean apartment, even when that apartment has multiple bedrooms. Certainly a hotel room may consist of multiple fully separate rooms.

Cerberus

It is really funny how you won't even admit that it is inconsistent.

But w'evs.

tchrist

Viruses that infect the same cytoplasm are cellmates.

alphabet

Don't expect the English lexicon to make sense.

Feb 24 at 2:58, by alphabet

> A pushchair has wheels, but that does not make it a wheelchair. You can push a wheelchair, but that does not make it a pushchair.

tchrist

00:45

People who share a thin bowl of soup are consummates.

People who share hierograms are hierogrammates.

alphabet

Coworkers at a brothel are homates.

Burglars who open doors together are prymates.

Cerberus

@tchrist According to you, this would mean that each virus had its own cell.

Mates don't share!!

jlliagre

Those sharing cars are automate.

tchrist

People who get nekkid with their SOs are gymnosomates.

The pal of your pal is your hemipalmate.

People you cry with are your lachrymates.

alphabet

Graffiti artists who collaborate are spraymates.

tchrist

00:51

Then there are the manmates.

They used to be wives. But things have changed, and they could have each other, just as two women can. When two women have children together, they are multimammates.

alphabet

People Hugh Hefner sexually assaulted are Playmates.

People who climb together are climates.

tchrist

Your close friends and your body doubles are both your proximates.

jlliagre

People more or less friends are approximate.

tchrist

Squamates are guys who share a <CENSORED>.

alphabet

A bigamist's two wives are spousemates.

tchrist

00:57

Your ultimate friend is your totipalmate.

jlliagre

tentmate

Noun: tentmate (plural tentmates)

One who occupies the same tent.

tchrist

People who hang out in the grass together are yerbamates.

People who hang out together at the end of the alphabet are zymates.

I smell sockmates.

alphabet

People who use drugs of dubious legality together are kratommates.

tchrist

People who live on different twigs of the same branch are racemates.

jlliagre

Classmates are classmates.

alphabet

01:00

@tchrist From the title of my book on relationship advice, From Mandates to Manmates.

tchrist

Classmates at the same prep school are preprimates.

People sharing their love of science education are prostemmates.

People sharing a certain kind of pad are maximates.

alphabet

People who support the same state of the US are prostatemates.

jlliagre

Gluten free friends are glutamates.

tchrist

People sharing a night at the inn are innmates.

jlliagre

Zombies are exhumates.

tchrist

01:03

I'm not aloud to say what it is that irrumates share. :)

People who share a laugh are hamates.

People who share Chinese tigers are humates.

Cerberus

People who each have their own game and share NOTHING are gametes?

People who share nothing whatsoever are mates?

tchrist

The enemy of your enemy is your foemate.

Friends with benefits at the co-ed dorm are bipalmates.

jlliagre

Tom's friends are tomates.

tchrist

Lassie's friends are collimates.

> cockmate 1578–1668 A best or extremely close friend. Cf. cock, n.¹ & int.compounds C.1c.

Well DUH!

alphabet

Those similarly intitled are intimates.

tchrist

01:08

Tandem bikers are cyclamates.

jlliagre

Graduates are diplomates.

tchrist

A drunkard from Málaga is amalgamate.

I think bichromates are another of those I'm not allowed to say.

alphabet

People who show each other things are showermates.

tchrist

Another forbidden one is the cochlidiospermates.

jlliagre

Unix guys are often climates.

3

Dannyu NDos

01:14

Grenade launchers are pomegranates.

tchrist

@DannyuNDos Indeed they are!

jlliagre

Books can be shelfmates.

tchrist

So can elves.

Dannyu NDos

Wait, so we're rhyming with -mate, not just -ate.

After all, we're all primates...

tchrist

"Rhyme" is perhaps too strong a word for the sort of tailchasing we're matching.

jlliagre

01:17

Those sharing a Spanish car can be seatmates.

tchrist

At the sushi bar Mrs Spooner always orders fukomates.

Prunes pulled from the same tree are deplumates.

As too are your nearest featherless bipeds, frozen or otherwise.

Cthulhu's minions are edriophthalmates.

The unhitched are formates.

Cones hanging from the same tree are infirmates.

jlliagre

Musty friends are stalemates.

tchrist

Prideless lions are malleoramates.

Paired sycophants are mebutamates.

Struggling artists sharing the same benefactor are patronomates.

People Like Us are plumates.

The family having bean soup for supper are pewmates.

Ace science researchers are prostemmates.

jlliagre

01:34

Disorganized people are messmates.

tchrist

People who are always getting in trouble by cutting in front of each other are preantepenultimates.

Duelling poets are rimates.

Songbirds feasting together on the same suet block are suitemates.

Ditto trick-or-treaters.

jlliagre

Washerwomen are laundromates.

tchrist

Siblings are postmates.

Bosom buddies are thymates.

Another that I'm not allowed to say is transformates.

People who can't form a proper queue are ulmates.

Vikas

A mosquito's songs made me wake up an hour early.

tchrist

Wayne and Garth are waymates and nowaymates at the same time.

jlliagre

01:47

@Vikas Not a bumblebee?

tchrist

Certain bike tools are spokesmates.

Ancient flying butt pals were pteroylglutamates.

The swimming rotifers are ploïmates. Literally.

Ploima

Ploima is an order of rotifers, microscopic invertebrates found in marine and freshwater habitats. == Families == According to the World Register of Marine Species, Ploima includes the following fifteen families: Asplanchnidae Brachionidae Dicranophoridae Epiphanidae Euchlanidae Gastropodidae Lecanidae Lepadellidae Lindiidae Mytilinidae Notommatidae Proalidae Synchaetidae Trichocercidae Trichotriidae == References ==

> 1890– ploimate, (ploïmate) adj. Of or relating to the order Ploima of rotifers that move only by swimming, which includes the majority of rotifer species.

GratefulDisciple

02:24

@tchrist And so do 2 people regularly sharing a pew at church every Sunday.

Abby and Brittany Hensel are spinemates and even husbandmates (hmmmm... not gonna imagine how it works).

My parents are mailbox-post-mates with their neighbor (sample).

My two computers are monitormates (one Displayport, the other HDMI).

alphabet

02:41

And thus begins the backlash to the backlash: Seth Moulton’s comments on trans athletes spark criticism as Democrats play blame game over loss

> The finger-pointing within the Democratic Party over the presidential election hit a fever pitch in Massachusetts Friday after US Representative Seth Moulton drew a fierce backlash when he appeared to blame identity politics by criticizing the party’s support for transgender rights.

> Matt Chilliak, Moulton’s campaign manager and director of his “Serve America” political committee, confirmed to the Globe that he resigned but did not address if it was related to the comments and directed further questions to Moulton’s office.

Criggie

"if you don't like it, go start your own party"
Would the US be any better off if it wasn't a continuous two-sided "me or thee" ?

Isn't Bernie the only non-party elected... thingy ?

Robusto

03:03

@Criggie The problem is that the Republicans are owned by the plutocrats. They spend a lot of money amping up the politics of division. And here we are today.

alphabet

Though I wouldn't call much of the Democratic Party particularly *anti-*plutocrat at the moment. Kamala did get $50 million from Mr. Moneybags Sexpest.

Cerberus

@alphabet It seems ridiculous to an outsider that major political debates should be about unimportant activities with zero consequences (sport) and extremely rare exceptions within them (transsexual participants who are unwanted in a certain match).

alphabet

03:22

@Cerberus "It's rare and unimportant" is relevant but ultimately seems like an evasive nonanswer, which doesn't tend to make a candidate look good.

Cerberus

@alphabet You can just not talk about and talk about more important matters instead.

Or say, let local communities decide on their own games.

alphabet

@Cerberus Yes, but if your opponents keep bringing it up, and you keep dodging the question, you won't come across looking good.

Cerberus

It is sick that anyone should bring this up more than once in national politics.

alphabet

@Cerberus That's probably the answer Kamala should've given.

Cerberus

"You, citizens, are free people. Shape your own lives. Only call for government interference when truly necessary."

Make it a bit rhetorical in any way that pleases you.

alphabet

03:31

@Cerberus Well, the government is funding those sports, so at some level they'll need to get involved.

Of course, one might wonder whether American schools should spend so much money on running high school sports teams and competitions. I don't think this is nearly as widespread in Europe.

Cerberus

@alphabet On the national level, they can still ignore the rare question.

@alphabet It does not exist here, that is crazy in itself.

But another crazy.

alphabet

@Cerberus Yes. It takes up an absurd amount of school funding and has little tangible effect on a school's educational mission. Schools should not be responsible for funding extracurricular enrichment activities.

But my opinion on this is, as you can guess, very controversial.

Robusto

@alphabet Yeah, but the Republicans are all about those shenanigans in a very big way. If we wait around for Polly Pureheart the Politician to show up we're gonna be waiting an awful long time.

Cerberus

@alphabet That is probably a big, commercial business or they wouldn't do it?

@alphabet Why controversial?

alphabet

@Cerberus Commercial? It's not like the schools are making money on it.

@Cerberus Once you've created those programs, people don't want them taken away.

Cerberus

03:36

@alphabet Oh, then why do they do it?

They don't sell advertising around the matches and stuff?

@alphabet But only a tiny number of people profit from them?

alphabet

@Robusto But it is telling that the billionaires didn't see Harris as much of a threat.

@Cerberus Tradition. To my knowledge it's nearly all paid for with public funds.

Cerberus

Are you positive that they don't make money off those sports?

> The schools generate direct revenues from ticket sales, merchandise, donations and other sources. Schools are organized into athletic conferences that generate their own direct revenues from TV broadcast contracts and tournaments, then distribute money to schools. The NCAA serves as a governing body, making and monitoring rules at the school level, and generating its own direct revenue from championship tournaments, distributing the surplus to schools.

Bowl games and post-season tournaments are independent entities that generate direct revenue and distribute to conferences and schools. T…

moronesanalytics.com/following-the-money-in-college-sports

alphabet

@Cerberus Revenue is not profit; those funds are generally exclusively used to fund the athletic department itself. Even high school football--the one sport that can make a reasonable amount of money--is nearly always a net loss.

Cerberus

So is it that the handful of most popular universities turn a large profit (the ones on television all the time) while most do not?

But the ones who don't' are constantly trying to become more profitable?

alphabet

@Cerberus I'm talking about public (K-12) schools, not universities. Universities absolutely make money off of athletics.

Cerberus

03:49

Okay.

That's it, then.

I don't know what schools those are, I thought Americans used school for university so that's what I assumed it was about.

alphabet

Basically: these high schools spend such absurd amounts on sports (especially facilities and coach salaries) that even the revenue from ticket sales can't cover them. Any excess they do make would get poured back into the athletic program itself.

@Cerberus Here "university" refers exclusively to postsecondary education.

Those university programs--the ones you see on TV--are more justifiable; they aren't entirely publicly funded and they can, in fact, make a profit on balance.

Cerberus

Oh, high schools do it even.

Then why do they do it?

We have gym class in school and that's it.

The university may organise some sport teams, but I wouldn't really know. Just for fun, not competitive.

alphabet

@Cerberus I don't know why it started, but people don't want it taken away.

Cerberus

@alphabet That is not related to what I said, though.

@alphabet Does it perhaps have something to be with being admitted to universities?

alphabet

The political controversy around trans girls in sports typically centers on public high schools, which are directly controlled by state/local governments and thus the sort of thing politicians control.

Cerberus

03:56

Politicians also control the colour of benches.

Doesn't mean it should be a national issue that they talk about on national television all the time.

As to sport in those schools, they can just say, that is the school's business.

alphabet

@Cerberus I don't think it makes a huge difference to university admissions, unless you're one of the tiny number of students admitted on athletic scholarships.

Cerberus

Maybe that is what many people hope for who participate?

alphabet

@Cerberus Doubt it. I certainly haven't heard of people specifically taking up high school athletics for the sake of university admissions. Of course participating in extracurricular activities can be of some significance but sports are far from special in that regard, particularly because they don't demonstrate much in terms of purely intellectual skills.

@Cerberus I think the problem isn't so much that Democrats have controversial opinions on this as that they tend to refuse to answer the question, which is used as proof that they only care about political correctness.

Cerberus

@alphabet Then why do so many people participate?

alphabet

@Cerberus Because people like playing sports. At least the kids do.

Cerberus

04:02

@alphabet I think it is crazy in general that people would talk so much about this, I didn't mean Democrats specifically.

@alphabet Here, sports are play at sport clubs, not at school.

And they are mostly not very competitive for children (though some teams are).

alphabet

@Cerberus Yes; that's how this system probably should work. There's no real reason for the public schools to run these internally. But people don't like it when you take things away from them.

Cerberus

They could be split off, taking the money and people with them, freeing the schools?

Then the funding can be reduced later without schools' caring.

alphabet

@Cerberus I'm sure you could propose that, but it wouldn't be a straightforward process, and I think you'd have trouble getting widespread support for it.

Cerberus

Oh, well.

It just seems like an odd priority for government spending.

alphabet

@Cerberus Yes. This article says that in Dallas coaches are paid twice as much as teachers.

Cerberus

04:06

Ugh.

alphabet

At least for high-school football, that is. Other sports receive a lot less money and attention.

Robusto

04:25

@alphabet Oh? So teachers have contracts in the millions now?

alphabet

@Robusto I think it's mostly the college coaches who have that absurd pay level, right? I mean, the high school ones get paid a lot too, but not that much.

Robusto

@alphabet Oh, I thought you were talking about colleges.

alphabet

@Robusto No, I meant the high school ones.

Robusto

Oh. Yeah, they're still highly overpaid. Because, you know, sports is more important than education.

alphabet

@Robusto Duh. Gotta balance out the teaching with the concussions.

At least 7 middle and high school football players have died in August

Two were from brain injuries; some of the others were heat stroke.

All aged 13-16. Ugh.

Robusto

04:37

@alphabet Yeah, they're doing two-a-day practices in August. Try running stadium steps in the noonday sun when the temperature is 90 or above. If it doesn't kill you you'll wish you were dead anyway.

think_meaning_buildß

04:49

> Winning is not everything, it's the only thing.

HippoSawrUs