English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

00:09

@Conrado Here it is in the toothpaste.

M.A.R.

02:47

@Conrado it's one of the oldest conspiracy theories in the US

At this point it's controversial for some people because it was controversial for their grandparents, so it's sort of a family tradition by now.

I think Iran's water isn't being fluoridated but naturally has some.

CowperKettle

Twain of the day: antemortem outbursts

Criggie

03:12

pre-death shouts ?

CowperKettle

03:29

It's from A Tramp Abroad

A Tramp Abroad (FULL Audiobook)

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CowperKettle

03:56

> Australian launch vehicle startup Gilmour Space has received a license for its first orbital launch, which could take place before the end of the year.

Robusto

04:24

@CowperKettle You forgot the hyphen. Twain wrote of "ante-mortem" outbursts.

CowperKettle

Yes, because I'm listening to an audioversion

or to an audio-version

Robusto

04:52

@CowperKettle The point of my comment is that the hyphen changes the focus. If Twain had dropped the comma ("antemortem") he would have been suggesting that the word was commonplace, but the addition of the hyphen makes it seem a tad awkward, emphasizing that this is an unwieldy confection used to call attention to itself and thereby add to Twain's mockery.

And at the same time it's a compound adjective, and deserves a hyphen. So there.

Cerberus

05:09

@CowperKettle Napoleon?

CowperKettle

06:04

@Robusto A nice book, by the way

@Robusto I'm too tired to pay attention to such specifics.. but thank you

CowperKettle

06:25

I should somehow obtain an electric bicycle, or at the very least, a fatbike with 4"-wide tires.

alphabet

What does a California accent sound like?

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CowperKettle

06:46

I wonder if this is true. Found on Twitter.

> China is by far the world´s largest market. The 276,288 industrial robots installed in 2023 represent 51% of the global installations. This result is the second highest level ever recorded (2022: 290,144 units).

ifr.org/ifr-press-releases/news/…

think_meaning_buildß

13:30

Do you think their news credibility is worth anything after they reported 3 cases of coVid during the height of the pandemic.

tchrist

13:50

Vikas

Anybody see anything changing in Ukraine war in next two years? I don't see anything changing significantly.

tchrist

What's the difference between the darker hued states and the lighter hued ones?

Why aren't Vermont and New Hampshire exactly flipped?

What about climate change? What about heat emergencies? What about wildfires? What about Naomi?

Most states are light hued periwinkle, but what color are the dark hued states?

Robusto

@tchrist Navy blue?

tchrist

Perhaps?

Robusto

@tchrist I need more coffee first.

tchrist

14:01

The (H=206°, S=97.4, V=46.3%) tuple is #034476 aka RGB [3, 68, 118].

Robusto

#travle #698 +2
🟧✅✅🟧✅
https://travle.earth

tchrist

The (H=226°, S=65.1%, V=100%) tuple is #597FFF aka RGB [89, 127, 255].

What's the link to politics of the lighter states vs that of the darker states?

Robusto

@tchrist And why is Puerto Rico red?

tchrist

@Robusto No subsidized shantying.

Robusto

@tchrist Could it be that the darker states are the ones who contribute more money than they receive from the government?

tchrist

14:09

@Robusto Good guess, close to the truth.

The darker states have a higher median gross rent amount than the national one.

Robusto

@tchrist Dark cyan? WTF? That doesn't look like cyan, and I've seen enough process color proofs to know.

@tchrist Interesting.

tchrist

@Robusto It's just trying to find the ten "closest" named colors.

And showing you the name and a color patch of each of those ten.

wismuth.com/webcolors.html

Robusto

@tchrist Okay.

tchrist

@Robusto Indeed, the "Dark Cyan" choice did not survive the switch from naïve RGB to perceptual Lab color.

Which is why not using Lab for perception gives poor and often counter-intuitive results.

Subsidized housing in the United States

In the United States, subsidized housing is administered by federal, state and local agencies to provide subsidized rental assistance for low-income households. Public housing is priced much below the market rate, allowing people to live in more convenient locations rather than move away from the city in search of lower rents. In most federally-funded rental assistance programs, the tenants' monthly rent is set at 30% of their household income. Now increasingly provided in a variety of settings and formats, originally public housing in the U.S. consisted primarily of one or more concentrated blocks...

Robusto

@tchrist Back in around 2000 I created an app for picking colors from images. I called it Palettability.

tchrist

14:17

That's the original, where now you have Loden states versus Lime states.

"Loden" being a color unknown to the web. :)

steel-green, bottle, corbeau, spinach-green, moss, loden

Robusto

Ten years later, as part of a job, I made an app to search all of my company's CSS files for "ad hoc" color choices (read: lazy-I'll-just-put-in-some color) and found we had over 250 color choices, many that were off by a few digits.

Which I expected.

tchrist

If they're arbitrary, how were they off by a few digits; from what?

> A heavy waterproof woollen cloth. Used attributively to designate garments made of this material, as loden cloak, loden cloth, loden coat, loden jacket, ...

Color loden synset.

"Hunter Green", perhaps, or "Forest".

Robusto

@tchrist They weren't arbitrary, they were "ad hoc" ("This looks yellowish enough to me"). Lazy front-end programming.

tchrist

Loden

Noun: Loden m (strong, genitive Lodens, plural Loden)

(dated, Bavaria) coarse woolen fabric
Loden
plural of Lode

@Robusto Make it so easy to code up just well enough to see any result that even an idiot can do it, and ...

> From Middle High German lode, from Old High German lodo, ludo,[1] derived from Proto-Germanic *leudaną, from Proto-Indo-European *h₁lewdʰ-. Cognate with Old Norse loðinn (“hairy, furry”).

Lothin sounds like the name of Dwarf.

loden

Noun: loden (plural lodens)

A thick waterproof cloth used for garments.
A dark green colour, like that of loden cloth.
loden m (plural lodens)
loden (material)

Adjective: loden (comparative more loden, superlative most loden)

Of a dark green colour, like that of loden cloth.
loden (not comparable)
leaden, made of lead

Robusto

@tchrist As a result, we reduced the color palette to 23 choices. I called it our chromosomal chart.

tchrist

14:27

@Robusto Where housing costs more, one might suspect a higher fed tax pay-in than pay-out as well.

@Robusto It's easy to go deep into color analysis and normalization, and not come back for a long time.

Robusto

@tchrist Indeed.

@tchrist That's why I bothered to program it. I got the designers to all the ones that weren't "true" and reduce the list. That way it ceased to be anybody else's problem. ;)

Robusto

14:42

#WhenTaken #258 (11.11.2024)

I scored 775/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 92.9 metres - 🗓️ 0 yrs - ⚡ 200 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 84 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 195 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 4823 km - 🗓️ 15 yrs - ⚡ 92 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 8725 km - 🗓️ 7 yrs - ⚡ 96 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 147 km - 🗓️ 2 yrs - ⚡ 192 / 200

https://whentaken.com

Wordle 1,241 3/6

🟨⬛🟨⬛🟨
⬛🟨⬛🟩⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

jlliagre

#WhenTaken #258 (11.11.2024)

I scored 801/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 19.4 metres - 🗓️ 0 yrs - ⚡ 200 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 450 km - 🗓️ 6 yrs - ⚡ 179 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 2040 km - 🗓️ 13 yrs - ⚡ 126 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 7555 km - 🗓️ 2 yrs - ⚡ 108 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 224 km - 🗓️ 4 yrs - ⚡ 188 / 200

https://whentaken.com

Robusto

Daily Octordle #1022
9️⃣5️⃣
3️⃣4️⃣
🔟8️⃣
6️⃣🕚
Score: 56

Daily Sequence Octordle #1022
4️⃣6️⃣
7️⃣8️⃣
9️⃣🔟
🕚🕛
Score: 67

Tightrope, a daily trivia game | Britannica

Nov. 11, 2024

T I G H T R O P E
✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ 🎉

My Score: 2110

MetaEd

15:01

@Robusto Is the strike over?

Robusto

@MetaEd shrugs

jlliagre

My point a few days ago.

Robusto

@jlliagre I hear it the other way. In some dialects of American English a pen becomes a pin.

"It's tin dollers fer a damn Bic pin now!"

jlliagre

@Robusto Yes. That doesn't invalidate the fact vowel realizations vary.

Robusto

@jlliagre My comment was additive, not subtractive.

jlliagre

15:12

@Robusto A third one and we synthetize white.

Tightrope, a daily trivia game | Britannica

Nov. 11, 2024

T I G H T R O P E
✅ ✅ ✅ 💔 ✅ 💔 ✅ ✅ ✅ 🎉

My Score: 1660

tchrist

@jlliagre And then beg like bag, and bag like bag(el). Round and round and round we go, and where the chain-shift stops, nobody knows.

jlliagre

15:30

#travle #698 +0 (Perfect)
✅✅✅
https://travle.earth

Robusto

@jlliagre Color me happy.

Vikas

Mission: Impossible – The Final Reckoning | Teaser Trailer (2025 Movie) - Tom Cruise

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Looks 🔥🔥

tchrist

beague, big, beg, bag, bague, bug, bahg, bog, bogue, boog, bugue

enjoy

boogersnot

Robusto

> And don't forget to boogie!

MetaEd

There's a slur similar to "virtue signaling" that I've forgotten. Refers specifically to people who complain publicly in forums about off-topic messages.

Robusto

15:40

@MetaEd Do you mean "virtue" signaling?

MetaEd

@Robusto yes, thanks for catching that.

Robusto

@MetaEd Sometimes our fingers fall into old familiar channels.

tchrist

16:40

I forgot all the boigs and bawgs and bayyyyyygues.

Robusto

> You can't spell hatred without "red hat."

MetaEd

You can't talk about it without a thread.

Sadly there are a dearth of those.

Robusto

@MetaEd Shit, ya beat me to it.

MetaEd

@Robusto only because I developed the tool for that years ago

metaed.com/cgi-bin/blood.cgi

Robusto

Well, with words of six or seven letters I see the jumbles pretty much instantly. When I got the newspaper delivered I used to do the Jumble in my head, including the finale, in under a minute. Often in under 15 seconds.

@MetaEd Nice. Now can you make it accept regular expressions?

MetaEd

16:50

@Robusto It only accepts the dirty star.

Robusto

is streak

MetaEd

it only streaks when you scoot on the carpet

Robusto

is streak -> asterisk

MetaEd

@Robusto the dirty star is an asterisk too, but invented by kurt vonnegut

Robusto

@MetaEd I know. Otherwise known as asshole.

tchrist

16:57

I've closed this as Nᴇᴇᴅꜱ Dᴇᴛᴀɪʟꜱ as I don't believe it's answerable as written. First you'll have to define what "irregularly spelled words" means in a language with a bidirectional many-to-many mapping between sounds and spellings. That is, each sound can be represented by any number of different letter combos and vice versa. Some would justifiably claim that EVERY word in English is “irregularly spelled”! Then you're going to have to pick one accent to the complete exclusion of all other accents worldwide. It's also far Tᴏᴏ Bʀᴏᴀᴅ because all answers would be equally valid. — tchrist ♦ 5 mins ago

Robusto

@MetaEd So how did you optimize the search?

tchrist

I don't think this spelling reformer is going to get any farther than infinitely many before him.

MetaEd

@Robusto One of these years I'll get around to caching. Until then it is not at all optimized.

Robusto

@MetaEd Thank heaven for fast processors.

Wouldn't want to try it on a Zilog Z8.

MetaEd

17:22

@tchrist You can't say reformer without error.

Also, you can't say antidisestablishmentarian because stack overflow. And I don't mean the site.

Robusto

@MetaEd And you can't say "guest fall" without seg fault.

MetaEd

Core dumped: Ur crude, recoded, merde urped. Perdu demoed. Proud? U produced.

(Poem.)

Robusto

18:06

@MetaEd Addition to your "kernel is the cook" analogy: "Sorry, we're out of that" is the all-purpose error code.

tchrist

?

is the only error signal given by Ken Thompson's car.

SEE ALSO ed

Robusto

@tchrist And here I thought it was a coquettish come-on.

MetaEd

@tchrist True. Why did Ken Thompson paint 'sh' on his car.

tchrist

?

jlliagre

18:21

1,$p

Robusto

I saw this guy speak in Chicago in 1975.

I still don't understand his language.

MetaEd

@tchrist he was the snail.

? is a self-portrait.

you're familiar with the Thompson shell

jlliagre

20:05

Ken Thompson is a singularity (Brian Kernighan)

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GratefulDisciple

20:16

@jlliagre Wow, thanks for sharing. I had my hands dirty with machine code, disassembler, and writing assembly language code for 3 different families of CPU to appreciate how he could write a disassembler with UNKNOWN opcode in just a few hours. Brilliant guy indeed.

Laurel

20:44

Number of people I heard of leaving the country in the wake of the election so far: 1, fortunately nobody I know personally

Mitch

@Laurel It'll take time and numbers to tell directly, but I would expect that even if the amount would be higher than if the other candidate won (and possibly relatively by many orders of magnitude), the absolute numbers will still be hardly noticeable.

maybe more likely internal migration? from one state to another?

I think people from India and China and Central America still want to come to the US.

alphabet

21:05

@Laurel Incidentally, Trump's proposed tax cuts would remove one of the major obstacles to this.

If he actually passes those tax cuts.

He'll probably sign a blank piece of paper and say it was tax cuts.

Or he'll send everyone a free MAGA hat and say it's even more valuable than a tax cut.

And then arrest everyone who isn't wearing theirs.

Sounds about right.

Mitch

21:28

@Laurel Dreaming of a move abroad? What it takes to immigrate to 5 countries. If you’re serious about leaving the United States, you better do your homework.

(probably behind a pay wall)

MetaEd

21:44

@tchrist there's a Ken Thompson talk that I think explains this. Before Ken thought of pipes, all the tools -- sort was his example -- were verbose. I'm opening a file, I'm doing pass 1, I'm doing pass 2, I'm writing a file, etc. And then he thought of pipes. And I know at that time Unix didn't have files 0, 1, and 2. Just stdin and stdout. Any diagnostic messages would corrupt stdout. So in one night they basically rewrote all the utilities and threw away all the error messages.

Robusto

@alphabet Ummmm ... free? You think he'll forego the opportunity to charge people for stuff like that?

tchrist

23:09

@MetaEd eep

Cerberus

@alphabet I wonder how conservative Republicans in parliament will be with respect to huge budget deficits.

alphabet

@Cerberus Republicans in Congress don't expect a Democratic president to use deficit spending wisely, but they trust that a Republican president will, and, since nobody wants to vote against tax cuts, those will probably pass.

Their main concern seems to be that, if the government defaults, it happens while the other party is in power and can take the blame.

Cerberus

23:38

@alphabet But there must be limits to what deficit they will allow.

alphabet

@Cerberus You'd think so, but they want to stay popular and curry favor with Trump.

Cerberus

There must be limits.

Some of them know they won't be reëlected anyway.

alphabet

@Cerberus The vast majority of them will.

Cerberus

But you don't need many to block a budget.

How big will their majority in the senate be?

alphabet

@Cerberus We'll find out.

Cerberus

23:44

I'm just wondering how big a deficit he will be allowed to run.

alphabet

He has proposed "fixing" the deficit by massively increasing trade tariffs, though I suspect that trying to do so would make the economy explode in one way or another.

Cerberus

It won't be able to help that much, I should think.

Trade will simply decrease a lot.

alphabet

Probably Congress will boast about saving $X billion dollars by ending "woke" programs, where X is something like 0.1% of the federal budget.

@Cerberus Buy your iPhones while they're less than $10,000.

Cerberus

@alphabet Yeah that won't work either.

@alphabet Perhaps more will be made in America then.

alphabet

@Cerberus Ain't as cheap when you can't hire 14-year-olds to work 12-hour shifts, or whatever it is Foxconn's up to these days.

:66606880 Aw, but without the culture war, politics would be all boring.

Cerberus

23:54

@alphabet Actually, the price difference on assembly is slight.

Like €10 per phone.

It is the parts that cost money.

So you will have to import those?

alphabet

@Cerberus Those would be equally affected by tariffs, of course, unless they get made in the US also.

Cerberus

I don't know how it works, exactly.

This is Fairphone.

Even even they get most of their parts from China, then it will be the same for everyone.

We should never have let it come to this.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…