English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mitch

1:00 AM

@WillHunting Magnifying glasses are a pain, making it hard to just browse.

user227867

1:40 AM

I just answered the question about ripping out hearts, LOL

tchrist

1:51 AM

You will not like me, Jasper.

user227867

2:08 AM

Decardiate? Beheart? LOL

user227867

Let's see what other interesting words we get from this question.

tchrist

excoriates Jasper

user227867

4:29 AM

I wonder if Emma Watson will still look 14 when she is 40, LOL

user227867

The 8-movie Harry Potter series will now have a 5-movie spinoff series, LOL

user227867

Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (film)

Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them is an upcoming British fantasy action film directed by David Yates and written by J. K. Rowling (in her screenwriting debut), based on Rowling's book of the same name. A spin-off and a prequel of the Harry Potter film series, the film will be the first installment of a series of five films, and stars Eddie Redmayne, Katherine Waterston, Dan Fogler, Alison Sudol, Colin Farrell, Carmen Ejogo, Samantha Morton, Ezra Miller, Ron Perlman and Jon Voight. Principal photography commenced on 17 August 2015, at Warner Bros. Studios, Leavesden. Fantastic Beasts and Where...

SpringLearner

6:00 AM

good morning everybody

Tarun

6:11 AM

Can we have passive voice for the following sentence "I have to stay here". I think we cant as "stay" is a intransitive verb. Could you please give your opinion on it.

suməlic

8:27 AM

@Tarun I agree with you.

user227867

9:17 AM

I just bought two lovely coffee mugs, one blue for myself, and one green for my mum.

user227867

10:03 AM

The blue one is blue, and the green one is green.

user227867

It's true that Firefox without flash works so much better than Chrome with flash. I just use HTML5 to play the videos.

user227867

It almost does not freeze at all on my Linux box.

user227867

Wow, I got so much rep today. This is a sign that a miracle is about to happen.

TRiG

11:20 AM

@Makoto that's what I thought, but in both of these instances I didn't intestinally click save — DForck42 19 hours ago

As spelling errors go ....

terdon

11:52 AM

Autocorrect prefers intestinally over intentionally?

Mitch

1:11 PM

@terdon Do you have the intentional fortitude to fight the dirty battles?

I did that intestinally

Richard Baker

1 1

this dude has been shotgunning us with lots of (automatic) VLQ answers. And they do tend to be comments or non-answers.

user227867

Just had a huge dinner. I am becoming obese.

terdon

@Mitch :)

Mitch

huge dinners are great, as long as not too often

@WillHunting what was the menu?

user227867

I emailed Maria X and Maria Y over the weekend, but there is no reply. Time to move on to Maria Z.

Mitch

Mmm... what a menu!

user227867

1:14 PM

@Mitch Some Japanese duck ramen and dumplings at a Japanese restaurant with Mum.

Mitch

I had a really good korean noodle soup years ago. rather multiple times over the course of a few years. But I haven't been able to find that kind of noodle soup since.

user227867

Actually, I emailed Maria X and Maria Y a few months ago as well, but also no reply. SInce there are no replies for two emails, it means the cases are closed. QED.

Mitch

@WillHunting people are weird

You haven't come up with a word yet for me to look up in my new dictionary

What's your new one again?

user227867

I just got the AHD.

Mitch

OK here's a word for you to se if they have it:

syzygy

user227867

1:17 PM

I will never use Oxford dictionaries again until they clear up their mess.

Mitch

what do they have?

@WillHunting Oxford is overrated.

user227867

@Mitch Yes, in the AHD. It's not that uncommon, really.

Mitch

The idea of WordNet is how things should go, but they are smallish and researchy so they won't be able to be a big deal.

@WillHunting Oh. Well, it's uncommon in certain circumstances, like dog breeding.

It's very common in others, like talking about syzygies.

So you want an uncommon one then?

aglet?

user227867

OK. Does your dic have the word longanimity?

Mitch

(I'm not sure that aglet is a word. is that the end of your shoelace? or the hole it goes in?

looking up longanimity

user227867

1:20 PM

Longanimity is one of my favourite words these days.

Mitch

wondering if that's a word too

user227867

Longanimity means calmness in the face of suffering or adversity.

user227867

@Mitch Yes. However, I am still using their foreign language dictionaries, because there are not many good alternatives.

Mitch

@WillHunting MIne only has 'long'. but it is just a set of selected synonyms that go across many IE languages. So it is not likely to have obscure long technical words, but instead obscure cognates in Sanskrit and Old Church Slavonic for short words.

user227867

@Mitch I see. So we should not even be comparing dics now!

Mitch

1:24 PM

@WillHunting I dont undersatnd why there are other languages. It just complicates things.

user227867

@Mitch The main reason is that I have not taken over the world.

Mitch

@WillHunting well, you can compare very different things and youll get mostly contrasts.

Not everything is exactly the same. Not everything is entirely different. Every comparison lies somewhere between the two extremes

Zen quote of the day

@WillHunting When you become ruler of the world (and you'll be really good and likeable one), remember me for the Minister of Leisure Activities.

user227867

@Mitch I can put you in the Ministry of Magic, together with Harry Potter.

user227867

This may seem strange, but I think the quality of questions on ELL is higher than ELU.

user227867

The people there are all about grammar, while the people here are all about SWR.

user227867

1:29 PM

If I really have a grammar question I think I will post on ELL.

user227867

@Mitch I think I asked before but forgot. Do you have a favourite book on recursion theory you can recommend me to read from cover to cover?

Mitch

1:50 PM

@WillHunting That'll work for me.

@WillHunting Oh. Right. Yes, you did ask but I don't think I answered. But I will

It's complicated.

There are a number of books I have familiarity with, and some that I might recommend that I don't (which of course is questionable)

And recursion theory is gig and has different perspectives (like anything)

Also usually, it's not recursion theory as a whole that is important or interesting, but rather undecidability within recursion theory, and undecidability can be studied via many techniques (and part of the study of undecidability is studying those diffferent techniques together.

I come from the CS tradition, so my favorites there are all automata theory (finite states machines and regular languages, pushdown automata and CFGs) culminating in Turing machines, universal Turing machines and the undecidability of the halting problem on TMs. Despite my biases, I think this is the most accessible from a mathematical/technical point of view (the mental/mathematical concepts needed are very few and relatively easy to attain to understand undecidability.

Texts:
Motwani Hopcroft Ullman Intro to Automata a 2000's classic reworking of a 1970's classic
Sipser Introduction to the Theory of Computation a 2000's classic

But I have seen a number of related texts coming from a more logic direction. They tend to be all about Goedel's theorems, which is just the corresponding statement of the Halting problem but in encoding things in formal number theory. One outcome of this is the formalization of general recursive functions.

There are lots of popularizations of Goedel's theorems (Hofstadter:Goedel Escher Bach, Nagel/Newman, Goedel's proof, are the best) but they are low on math parts (very fascinating, I started learning propositional logic from GEB).

But there are a couple of texts that are more mathy:

Davis Computability and Unsolvability ( I haven't studied this one but I hear it is very good)
Rogers Theory of Recursive Functions and Effective Computability: a classic (1960s). very dense, unmotivated (= I had a hard time with it) but a classic.
Enderton Computability Theory: An Introduction to Recursion Theory very readable (his set theory text and logic text are great too)

Also, though not explicitly recursion theory, Kleene's Intro to Metamathematics, a 1950's classic) covers a lot of the same ground (and may give some motivation to Rogers)

To stay away from (as a first text) - Schoenfield: Recursion Theory, Nerode/Shore Recursion Theory, way too dense and unmotivated (+ I didn't understand them at all).

Rubisco

2:26 PM

Hey Mitch

The message above is only meant to interrupt something.

Mitch

Good history: Oddifreddi Classic Recursion Theory but save for later of for browsing.

@Rubisco Thanks!

Rubisco

@Mitch Kanths!

Mitch

@WillHunting I have opinions about many of the ones search amazon for 'recursion theory' but it'd be better to be directed (answer questions you might have about them, rather than give unrequested advice about a bunch)

user227867

@Mitch Thanks. I have actually been browsing all the more mathy books you mentioned to see which I should buy. =)

Mitch

so TL;DR - I'd recommend first Enderton. (and maybe on the side his intro to logic)

user227867

2:31 PM

@Mitch I bought his set theory and logic books already.

Mitch

@WillHunting as to money... I can't stand that entire process. I was lucky enough to have a good library where I could check them out for months at a time.

They are just so way over priced. Exorbitant.

user227867

@Mitch I browse the books using secret Russian servers...

Mitch

@WillHunting Those are good. He just does it right.

@WillHunting (I'm too old, I prefer having the hard copy. it just is more comfortable to flip pages quickly with muscle-eye memory rather than clicking through)

user227867

@Mitch I use the files only for evaluation. Then I choose and buy.

Mitch

Enderton, as expensive as his are, are probably middling for most math/logic book prices.

@WillHunting If you only had one, I'd go for Enderton.

user227867

2:34 PM

Amazon and Book Depository usually sells them more cheaply than the publisher.

Mitch

The way he writes, things just make sense.

So @rubisco, what are your favorite chem texts?

Rubisco

Which field?

Physical chem?

Organic chem?

Mitch

whichever is what you like the most

Rubisco

My favoritestest book is Clayden's organochem textbook.

Mitch

oscillating inorganic reactions

@Rubisco why?

pictures?

Rubisco

2:37 PM

Love is irrational

Mitch

(that's what I like for natural sciences)

@Rubisco then what about it do you like?

Rubisco

It explains stuff very well.

Mitch

The recipe for crystal meth? and how it is one process different from saltwater taffy?

Rubisco

It's a bit inconsistent with what preliminary knowledge it requires, but 'tis generally really awesome.

@Mitch pfft, that one's easy

Mitch

does it compare caffeine, theobromine, and ...isn't there another one like them?

not nicotine or amphetamine right?

Rubisco

2:39 PM

What does comparing even mean?

Mitch

sort of chemical structure and bio action alike.

sort of.

kind of.

Rubisco

Well, bio actions are discussed in biochemistry books.

Mitch

you know, they both have that thingy with the other thingy hanging off

Rubisco

My favorite biochem book is Lehninger's.

@Mitch In organochem, we learn how some thingies of stuff react with other thingies of other stuff.

Mitch

isn't organic chem like prereqs for biochem? or almost the same?

Rubisco

2:41 PM

The mechanism, the why of the mechanism.

Mitch

or does biochem get into ATP and DNA?

Rubisco

@Mitch Well, both are so vast they can't be prereqs for each other.

Mitch

they're more related than inorganic chem or petrochemicals

Rubisco

@Mitch Biochem develops a terminology different than that of what chemists usually use. It doesn't care about how the reactions happen.

But what reactions happen inside a cell.

The what is important, not the why.

In organochem, the mechanism and the why of the mechanism are important.

user227867

I am having indigestion. Too much gas.

Mitch

2:43 PM

@Rubisco I find the movies of unravelling DNA and protein production funny because everything in reality is surrounded by a bunch of other stuff, mostly water.

@Rubisco oh

@Rubisco Look man I just mix them all together and if it doesn't explode I'm good.

user227867

@Tonepoet Chambers replied and said they will fix the errors on the website and also consider my suggestion about the quirky definitions.

Rubisco

@Mitch Organic stuff is usually not explosive.

user227867

Chambers is very nice, so I recommend you all try their dictionaries!

Rubisco

If you have some nitrogen or some metal in your molecule, then that's another story.

Tonepoet

@WillHunting Chambers is amazingly responsive.

Mitch

2:45 PM

@WillHunting That's nice. Wait, were they the only one's who responded at all?

@Rubisco ooh... like fertillizer?

Sounds like the start of a Mission:Impossible script

user227867

@Mitch Collins has not responded for over a week. Oxford responded only after a repeated email and after a week. Chambers replied within two work days on both occasions.

Rubisco

@Mitch Nope. It's not merely the atom that's important. The combination with other atoms is.

For instance, TNT is benzene plus three nitro groups.

Oh, and a methyl

Mitch

where the bad guy at the end explodes after eating an ice cream bar, being the catalyst for nitrite preservative laden hot dog an hour earlier.

Rubisco

But that's irrelevant

user227867

I would like to think that my suggestions to Chambers, Collins and Oxford are all important, but others may not think so.

user227867

2:47 PM

I think they should all hire me as a consultant.

Mitch

@WillHunting I wonder what their complaint rate is, how many complaints they get a day.

user227867

I now have four masterpieces on my youtube channel, lol. I think I won't delete my channel again, lol.

user227867

@matt How are the Greek lessons? Are you conversational yet?

Matt E. Эллен

not quite

they're going well :)

user227867

I am going to try to lose 15 kilograms from now till the end of the year...

user227867

2:58 PM

I think I am now obese, lol.

Matt E. Эллен

good luck

Mitch

new startup idea: monetize luck. sort of like kickstarter but one of the participants gets all the cash, but probability based on how much put in. We'll call it Google Dashed Dreams

Matt E. Эллен

you mean... the lottery?

kickstarter is somewhat luck based already!

Mitch

3:15 PM

@MattE.Эллен haha yes I know.

like monetizing magic, or wishing real hard.

"Sorry, Harry Potter isn't real.'

What does Andrew mean by that? He's being sarcastic right?

user227867

@MattE.Эллен I also hope to win the lottery. Then I will be a millionaire. Then I can buy you many Greek books!

Matt E. Эллен

@WillHunting or move to a country you want to learn the language of

Mitch

Klingon

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch have you ever been to charring cross?

Mitch

That sounds burned out

Matt E. Эллен

3:20 PM

or was it kings cross?

user227867

@MattE.Эллен Actually, all I want is to get well and be with Maria.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен oh... you mean platform 9 3/4?

Matt E. Эллен

yes

user227867

I had a strange idea. What if the Maria I find one day really is called Maria?

Matt E. Эллен

ah, it's King's Cross

Mitch

3:22 PM

I'm pretty sure I drove in front of it once...does that count?

Matt E. Эллен

@WillHunting then you're likely in southern Europe

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен What is it that Scandinavians have against Mary? Probably the food she makes is too spicy. In that it has spice. At all.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch they don't have anything against Mary, they just like other names as well

user227867

Maria has a special meaning in La Vita E Bella, LOL. Watch it and you will know!

Matt E. Эллен

southern Europe, or Ireland

user227867

3:25 PM

Well, West Side Story also has Maria, LOL.

user227867

Maria = M = Matt = M = Mitch, LOL

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен As opposed to other end of Europe where everyone is named Mary or some variation.

user227867

By the way, is Nastya a Russian name?

Matt E. Эллен

for all intents and purposes, there are two female names in Greece: Maria and Eleni. All others are a statistical anomaly

Mitch

@WillHunting Nastasya seems Czech

tchrist

3:28 PM

Bernstein taught us that Maria is a tritone ascending, but what tones are Eleni?

user227867

behindthename.com/name/nastya

user227867

I recommend this webite to look up names. Very informative.

Mitch

@WillHunting a quick google search/magic eight ball says 'Signs point to yes'

@tchrist augmented fifth?

user227867

@tchrist Some songs in that musical have weird pitch changes, hard for me to get right.

Mitch

'Stacy' huh, I never knew that was short for 'Anastacia'

They have name sites for Indian names. Are there any for Chinese names?

The sites that find English names for Chinese people should be shut down.

tchrist

3:31 PM

@Mitch Where do I begin to tell the story of how great a love can be?

Fitting.

Matt E. Эллен

Ελένη

tchrist

Exactly.

Also, a minor sixth.

Mitch

a neapolitan sixth

Matt E. Эллен

just a bit of strawberry

Mitch

:D

user227867

3:34 PM

The taste of strawberries and the touch of grass, says Frodo at the end of LOTR3.

Mitch

Really? That's what it was all for?

I mean really, a stupid ring?

user227867

Frodo wants to return to the shire when it is all over. He wants the strawberries and the grass.

Mitch

Look I have crops to harvest and that ring isn't helping.

@WillHunting Doesn't he go off to Valinor (= Valhalla) with Bilbo at the end?

Matt E. Эллен

sell the ring. it's gold. it'll get you a few pennies

user227867

I have no idea why the heart destruction question is so hot.

Matt E. Эллен

3:37 PM

@Mitch in the books, he sticks around for a while first. Sam sticks around for years, but eventually has to go, too

user227867

@Mitch Actually, where he said that was before the Bilbo part. Before the eagle came to fly them back from Mordor methinks

Matt E. Эллен

all in Hobbiton

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен I think you could more than that. sell it to electronic board manufacturers. one solid gold ring could supply thousands of board pins

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch somedays Twitter feels like that's what someone did

user227867

I think since I am fat now, I can play Sam. Someone else can play Frodo? Who?

Mitch

3:39 PM

@WillHunting The eagles. Almost as stupid as the scoring for golden snitch in HP

Matt E. Эллен

Elijah Wood

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен haha. so many oversimplified opinions.

clears throat

user227867

I think Matt can play Frodo. I will let Mitch play Gandalf.

Matt E. Эллен

I'm clearly an orc

user227867

Oh I forgot, LOL

user227867

3:40 PM

ROFLMAO

Matt E. Эллен

I'll steal Merry and Pipin

Mitch

@WillHunting Who marries Eowyn or Arwen at the end? What's the point of killing a bunch of people, even if they are particularly ugly and have bad teeth, if you can't at least spend some time with the ones with nice teeth?

user227867

@Mitch I brush my teeth only once a week nowadays. Yet I never had tooth decay.

Mitch

Galadriel is nice but she's a it stand-offish, know what I mean?

@WillHunting I also recommend flossing, contrary to recent (I think flawed) research.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch Aragorn marries Arwen. Faramir marries Eowyn

user227867

3:43 PM

I have a theory why my teeth are still so good...

Matt E. Эллен

is it because they're wooden?

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен OK. I get that. Sure. I won't get in their way.

user227867

Because I seldom brush my teeth, a layer of dirt has built up and hardened. This makes them impenetrable for the bacteria and acid.

user227867

I am not joking about my teeth. It is funny, but it is real too.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch And Sam marries Rosie Cotton.

Mitch

3:46 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 and they have lots of children.

user227867

Mr Shiny marries Mrs Shiny of course.

Mitch

I'm sure that's a lot of work, even for hobbits.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Goldberry marries Tom Bombadil

Mitch

And Sauron's spirit, what's left of it, ends up dating Angelina Jolie.

They deserve each other

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Who is Goldberry, I hesitate to ask.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

wat

are you joking?

user227867

3:49 PM

Wait, is Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie divorcing? Sad...

tchrist

Why does Tamara Keith @ NPR have funky vowels in experiment?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Goldberry is the river-woman's daughter

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No I'm not joking. Goldberry is an actual female character in LotR?

user227867

Why do the actors and actresses marry and divorce so often? It's like me deleting my accounts

Mitch

@tchrist link please

tchrist

3:49 PM

Her middle vowel is from PAY not PET.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch yes, married to Tom Bombadil

tchrist

It was on this morning.

Mitch

@WillHunting Yeah, that's big news

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I had no idea. I must not have been paying attention.

tchrist

I forget which clip.

Mitch

@WillHunting too much money. also very visible

@tchrist exPAYriment?

user227867

3:51 PM

@Mitch Well, divorce doesn't cost much money actually, if it is an amicable separation.

tchrist

@Mitch Yeah.

user227867

Anyone here knows much about NLP?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch Do you recall when the hobbits left the Shire, they went through the old forest and were trapped by Old Man Willow, then rescued by Bombadil? Then later he rescues them again from the barrow downs

Mitch

@WillHunting the money on both sides makes it easy to split. caring for the kids is not a worry (since 'staff' have been doing it already).

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

then they take old swords from the barrow and Merry ends up using one to stab the witch king

Mitch

3:52 PM

@WillHunting neurolinguistic programming? Only to the extent that it's a load of crap.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

spoiler alert

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yes

user227867

@Mitch Yeah I don't know what the hype is all about

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yes

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 go on

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch Merry is not a "man" an neither is Eowyn so they can hurt the witch king.

Anyway Tommy B. is married to Goldie

or, at any rate, they are shacked up together

Mitch

3:54 PM

@WillHunting there, it's just a fancy word used by people who have no idea what it is but must be fancy science magic stuff. marketing to quasi-educated people

tchrist

All the things are not being needfully done.

user227867

@Mitch I also don't get ASMR. I never get those tingles.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah. haha. Macbeth killed by no man of woman born when the forests of Dunsinane totally ruin a pun.

user227867

Speaking of ASMR, there is a lot of soft porn on youtube masquerading as ASMR

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh I missed that. Not unexpected of Bombadil. Free spirit and all. Where I get my best weed if you must know.

Matt E. Эллен

3:55 PM

@tchrist how fun :D

Rubisco

@Mitch Not sure if you're serious or not, but I thought that was 'Natural Language Processing'

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch pro tip: if someone ever gives you a prophecy like that, that "no man" blah blah, double-check the fine print

user227867

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No man is an island. It's true, because a man is a living being but an island is not. QED.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I learned my lesson from the genie, the bastard.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting No, it's telling you the name of an actual island. "Noman"

user227867

3:57 PM

Noman must be the alternative spelling of Norman

Mitch

@Rubisco NLP stands for both. the one I described is a real thing but is a load of horsetwaddle. What I think Jasper is talking about is just tech to use voice or text.

Matt E. Эллен

ah! the island of Noman. so picturesque

so if Eowyn is Noman, is Eowyn an island?

user227867

That day, when I said that when I moved my eyes left and right, it seems I hear wind in my ears, I was not joking. Maybe I should see another doc about it

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен based on that study of American counties, has the worst violence rate anywhere.

user227867

I think it's prob some kind of dizziness or sth

Matt E. Эллен

3:59 PM

@Mitch lol

but no domestic violence at all

Mitch

was that one of the results?

Matt E. Эллен

yes

user227867

Strangely, I don't hear wind when I move them up and down

Matt E. Эллен

fewer men -> less domestic violence and more rape

Mitch

That whole thing has got to be an anomaly. needs other countries studied.

@MattE.Эллен It sounds like the women are scared either way.

Matt E. Эллен

4:01 PM

yes. it's so focussed on numbers and not on people

Mitch

@WillHunting Oh. That as my next question.

user227867

To me statistics on people mean little, because people are not objects. Each individual is unique

Mitch

are you sure you're not turning your head when you move your eyes? What if you look at one spot on the wall and turn your head? Do you hear it then?

tchrist

0

Q: How to used "as well as"?

Good morning, English is my second language and I continue to have challenges with this language. My question today is if I have grammatically used the phrase "as well as" correctly. Can you please help or suggest a better way to write this sentence below? Seeking a position as a Clinician wh...

grammar

Mitch

Also are you wearing ear phones?

@WillHunting I'm not.

!!rimshot

user227867

4:03 PM

@Mitch It seems no for now.

Rubisco

@tchrist No really. How did 2 use "as well as"?

user227867

@Mitch No.

Rubisco

How can a number use things?

Mitch

Sorry. Two dollars in the Monty Python reference jar.

tchrist

@Rubisco 789

Rubisco

4:03 PM

@tchrist I disagree

Mitch

It's a fact

Rubisco

@tchrist To counter

0

Q: english conjuction 'as' and 'since'

English Conjuction How to use 'as' and 'since' as conjuction and which situation. I have refer many website but am not able understand properly.

spoken-english

But I gotta admit, yours are usually funnier to read than ELL's.

user227867

Josh is now No 2 on ELU, yay!

user227867

4:19 PM

I am going to Sleepland. See you all in my dreams.

Mitch

later

Rubisco

lates

tchrist

4:39 PM

How do I make the damn Mac (Chrome, Safari) consider correct both US and UK spellings?

Rubisco

I think you don't.

tchrist

That's idiotic.

3

A: How can I change the language for automatic spelling correction?

Autocorrect with multiples languages (automatic by language) in Mavericks is broken. It does not underline all the bad written words. I have to select only 1 language to get it properly working.

Tonepoet

5:39 PM

@tchrist That is an awfully counterintuitive design for a company that prided itself on ease of use. Who would think that the keyboard would influence spelling? It'd be better to have the option in the spelling checker itself...

Færd

5:52 PM

> run-of-the-mill (adj.)

> "unspectacular," 1909 in a literal sense, in reference to material yielded by a mill, etc., before sorting for quality (compare common run "usual, ordinary type," from 1712). Figurative use is from 1922.

Is run used in this sense today?

Probably.

> They published a limited run of 2000 copies.

Tonepoet

@Færd In order to really answer that question, we need to know which sense of the word that is.

Færd

> ... in a literal sense, in reference to material yielded by a mill, etc., before sorting for quality

Perhaps in order to really answer it, we need to ask mill keepers.

Tonepoet

@Færd Of the word, not of the phrase. It does nothing to enlighten us as to why the word "run" is used. This fact implies that this should be tacitly understood by the reader suggesting it still is.

Færd

Since the figurative use is from 1922, I guess the phrase had been an ordinary phrase with each of its words having its literal meaning.

Tonepoet

6:09 PM

@Færd "Literal" isn't very helpful when a good and relatively contemporaneous dictionary has 75 senses of the word., especially when you don't mean to suggest that the flour sprouted legs and ran about the mill.

Mitch

@Færd Just for a mill or metaphorically?

"I had a good run, but now I'm out."

@Færd that totally works

Færd

@Tonepoet Well, one of its meanings. Literal was a mistake.

Tonepoet

I am leaning towards an interpretation that "run of the mill" probably references a typical proceeding from an automated process..

Færd

@Mitch Yeah, I meant the product sense.

Mitch

Yes, works for any product coming off an assembly line situation

Færd

6:15 PM

But mills don't have assembly lines, do they?

They have some sort of a processing line.

Tonepoet

Hmm, there's a meaning of the word "run" as "a pair or set of millstones" in Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, which is relatively interesting. It wouldn't be extraordinary for this sort of "run" to be found in a mill.

Færd

Ah. But that doesn't agree with etymonline's report of the original meaning of the phrase.

I mean it probably doesn't mean millstones in that phrase.

Tonepoet

Well etymonline hides the basis for their rationale from us, so it is difficult for us to review its accuracy. I mean the heart of a human can be found beating in every living man's chest.

Mitch

@Færd processing/assembly/rube goldberg machine/whatever, something that is producing continuously items, that might be in batches. One batch = one run

Færd

@Mitch Got it!

Mitch

6:24 PM

@Tonepoet women are heartless. you know how they are

Tonepoet

@Mitch That's why I specified men. ;-)

Færd

Heh. I thought you were a female.

Tonepoet

@Færd Nobody knows and I'd rather that they continue their ignorance on that matter, if not only so that my statements can be evaluated on the basis of what was said, rather than who said them.

Then again perhaps you meant to direct that statement to Mitchelle here. >_>

Færd

@Tonepoet That's a lost cause. And really, not disclosing your gender has little of that effect.

Tonepoet

@Færd I'll take what little I can get.

Færd

6:32 PM

Because, for one thing, people imagine a gender for an unknown person.

No problem.

Rubisco

I thought Tonepoet is a he. Then a she. Then I stopped thinking.

Mitch

@Tonepoet That would be Michelle, and anyway, there are some rare circumstances where Mitch is used by males.

Tonepoet

6:44 PM

@Mitch I valued retaining aspects of the original spelling to making the name completely feminized. Also, I hadn't really seen the name Mitchelle, with the e, applied to males before.

I like to think it changes the stress to add the E by placing greater emphasis on the last syllable. <_<

Anyway, returning to the subject of how mills run, there's also this sense of the word "Run To continue in operation; to be kept in action or motion; as, this engine runs night and day; the mill runs six days in the week." I actually think that makes some sense too, since the continuous action would be a regular occurrence.

Færd

That was my first thought.

Tonepoet

Actually, sorting through the definitions in Chambers' dictionary greatly simplifies the matter over Webster's unabridged. Chambers' third definition suggest those senses as one and the same, or rather at least cognate:

"Run act of running: course: flow: discharge from a sore: distance sailed: voyage: continued series: general reception: prevalence: popular clamour: an unusual pressure, as on a bank, for payment: a trip: the run of events: a small stream: the quantity run: the act of migrating: in base-ball, the complete circuit made by the player which enables him to score one: in cricket…

Tonepoet

7:09 PM

So if we assume that's the sense of the word so meant, then I suppose we can safely say that it's still in use: The Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary & Thesaurus gives us a definition of to [...] continue in a particular way. It exemplifies "The film runs for two hours." "A Magazine subscription usually only runs for one year." "The show runs for another week" "The truck's brakes failed and it ran off the road" which all reference some sort of continuity.

As can be seen here. I somehow doubt that a recent learner's dictionary would contain an obsolete sense of the word and those examples seem like realistically possible statements from our contemporaries.

Shafizadeh

What's the meaning of this:

> it refers to me loosing the "train of thought" in the middle

Tonepoet

I believe "Train" is some sort of metaphor for "sequence". [Consider these definitions from Noah Webster](http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/train):

"4. A series; a consecution or succession of connected things.

Rivers now stream and draw their humid train

Other truths require a train of ideas placed in order.

--The train of ills our love would draw behind it.

5. Process; regular method; course. Things are now in a train for settlement.

If things were once in this train--our duty would take root in our nature."

It might help to think of how a locomotive steam engine draws along train cars. Each car is separate, but each one must be interconnected, and follow the other to move along properly.

Shafizadeh

7:29 PM

thank you buddy

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:39 PM

in fact the "locomotive + cars sense" of train is newer than "train of thought" according to etymonline

> General sense of "series, progression, succession, continuous course" is from late 15c. Train of thought first attested 1650s. The railroad sense "locomotive and the cars coupled to it" is recorded from 1820 (publication year, dated 1816), from notion of a "train" of wagons or carriages pulled by a mechanical engine.

Tonepoet

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes that makes sense. I just wanted to make the metaphor easily comprehensible with that example.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

it's just funny that your example is backwards from the history

everyone knows what a train is, right? but nobody remembers how it got to be called that

Tonepoet

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Great thinkers are often considered ahead of their time, and that is especially so if they are Time Lords.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

can a time lord be ahead of his or her own time?

Tonepoet

That's a question for the ages to determine.