English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

4:01 PM

What they mean is script, not alphabet, for Chinese has no alphabet.

tchrist

That’s why I said script.

Cerberus

Yes, I was just commenting on your earlier quotation, which said alphabet.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus colloquially, all writing systems are referred to as alphabets, by people who only know writing systems that use alphabets.

Cerberus

I think that's bad.

Robusto

@tchrist: I remembered a third reason I don't do the queue that often. Added to my response.

tchrist

4:04 PM

When you have just a few words to say things with, you must use those same words in new ways so you do not have to learn a rare word that might have more than one beat in it.

Cerberus

There are enough words commoner than script that they could use, like signs or symbols.

Writing system.

tchrist

Not my bug.

skill patrol

Script reminds me of scripture

tchrist

Fancy that.

skill patrol

Or the script of a play.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

4:14 PM

@Cerberus My point being, there's no need to call out tchrist's quote. HE knows the difference.

Cerberus

5:10 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Of course.

Johan Larsson

6:29 PM

> There is only one way forward now: back.

capital B there right?

Robusto

No.

Johan Larsson

ok ty

Robusto

I mean, do what you like, but I wouldn't capitalize that. The only time I capitalize the word right after a colon is if it is a complete sentence.

Johan Larsson

I thought : was same as .

Robusto

Especially if it is followed by multiple sentences that are the logical result of the colon.

Johan Larsson

6:32 PM

I prefer lower

Robusto

@JohanLarsson No.

Johan Larsson

ty sir

Robusto

Two dots is twice as many dots as one dot.

Johan Larsson

yes

Robusto

Here are some important things to consider: Don't use nails where you would use screws. Do use glue for wood. Never tape anything together, except temporarily.

The following are my favorite trees: oak, maple, cedar, cypress, spruce.

Capisce?

Johan Larsson

6:36 PM

no, almost nothing

why not use glue for wood?

tape is used as an alternative to welding when producing things like cars and washing machines

3M™ VHB™ Tape - Bowling Ball Demonstration

►

not sure if I found the correct tape

crl

․.․.․.․.․.․.․.․.․

Johan Larsson

random vid, don't know the word I want to search for

crl

well I guess it's temporary

Johan Larsson

^ is a candidate for taping.
- Corrosion resistance.
- Strength, especially fatigue strength.
- Cost

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Those were example sentences, not to be taken literally.

Johan Larsson

6:50 PM

haha

Robusto

First example shows a colon followed by complete sentences, second shows one followed by a list.

Johan Larsson

I did not notice, thought you changed subject

Robusto

Who do you think I am, @RegDwigнt?

Johan Larsson

reading it again I'm afraid of myself

my dumb is unbounded

Robusto

Don't be hard on yourself. You're dealing with a whole 'nother language, and that puts everyone's brain out of joint now and then.

Johan Larsson

6:52 PM

it has been out for a while now actually

not due to language

think it is three days now

Robusto

three day?

Johan Larsson

malfunction of brain

started with sleep failure one night

Robusto

Yeah, I hate that.

I've decided I'm not going to let that get to me. On nights I can't sleep I won't go into the office next day. I'll do my fucking off at home.

Cerberus

7:10 PM

Very good!

How is your job at the moment?

Were you considering quitting?

Robusto

@Cerberus I am considering quitting. In fact, I'm in my last weeks or months. I'll almost certainly work no longer than the rest of this year.

If things get too stressful at work, why, I'll just pack it all in then and there.

Cerberus

Okay, so you are in your last weeks or months because you have decided that they shall be the last, or because the job ends then anyway?

Robusto

@Mitch: I don't understand what you don't understand.

@Cerberus The job is there as long as I want it. In fact, my boss is going to be very unhappy when I tell him I don't want to work there anymore.

I'm just tired of having shit to worry about that has no potential to make me happy.

Johan Larsson

coding does not make you happy?

creating things

solving problems

creating problems

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Sure, coding makes me happy. But wading through piles of shit to get to the place where I can be creative? Not so much.

Johan Larsson

7:20 PM

I feel you should be in a good position to avoid it

With the fuck all attitude

example of piles?

Robusto

We'll see. I am headed for a blow-up, and if they respond to my disengagement by telling me I get to do fun stuff, why I'll probably stay.

Cerberus

I understand.

If you could explicate what would be fun stuff for you, then perhaps this scenario would become more likely.

Johan Larsson

1 min ago, by Johan Larsson

example of piles?

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Too tedious to go into, but in order to do my job, every time I checkout a new branch I have to run four different database scripts, blowing away any customizations I might have made to get data I can use, stop and start different applications, sometimes change file and folder permissions on my drive, and so on. It can take nearly a day before I am up and running on the new branch.

Johan Larsson

I know there are piles, I don't mean it like that.

@Robusto ouch, failed joel test

Robusto

7:23 PM

It just takes so frickin' long to get my oar in the water, by the time it's there I've lost the energy to paddle.

Johan Larsson

I thought it was meetings and stuff

Robusto

Nah, I don't even bother with meetings unless I'm dragged into them.

@JohanLarsson Which Joel test?

Johan Larsson

yeah dev tools fighting and config is def the dark side of programming

@Robusto Joel test

> Can you make a build in one step?

Robusto

Yeah. Well, once it's set up we can make a build in one step. But we have to set it up every time. Then it's good until the branch gets merged.

Johan Larsson

hmm, I misremembered

thought one of the items was about what you described

branching and merging is also huge pain

branching is a version control antipattern imo

sometimes unavoidable

Robusto

7:27 PM

Do you use source control? Yes
Can you make a build in one step? Depends
Do you make daily builds? Yes
Do you have a bug database? Hmm, not like you mean.
Do you fix bugs before writing new code? Hahahaha.
Do you have an up-to-date schedule? Schedule? What's that?
Do you have a spec? Hahaha, no. It's what's in the mind of the PM.
Do programmers have quiet working conditions? Two words: Open Office.
Do you use the best tools money can buy? Hardly.
Do you have testers? Yes.
Do new candidates write code during their interview? I didn't, but my boss knew me from before.

@JohanLarsson Yeah. My big problem with it is that ALL my usable data gets flushed every time that happens. I have asked for someone to make a script to generate this, but that doesn't seem to be very important, since it would only realize about an 85% increase in productivity!

Johan Larsson

in The 2nd Monitor, 2 days ago, by Mat's Mug

In Mother Russia you don't test software. Software tests you.

Cerberus

@Robusto Is there no way to automate all that? Let e.g. Autohotkey press all the buttons and save all the data?

Johan Larsson

@Robusto I was wrong, maybe quitting is best.

Does not sound like there is an easy fix

Cerberus

Whatever you can do by hand, Autohotkey can do automatically.

Robusto

@Cerberus That would be a Tesafilm solution to a bricks and mortar problem.

Cerberus

7:32 PM

Hey, if it works, it works.

Function over elegance.

As long as the ugly bits don't contaminate the non-ugly bits, which won't happen if you use this automation thingy on top of the normal stuff.

Robusto

@Cerb, I love ya but ya don't know what you're talking about. The solution for this involves SQL, and populating a database with users who have varying permission levels and all kinds of other stuff.

Cerberus

If you can do it by hand, then Autohotkey can do it.

Robusto

I don't know the database's ins and outs well enough to write a passable script to do what I want to do.

Cerberus

Of course it may take a while to set it up...

Oh, well.

I know it's not going to happen.

Just saying it is probably possible.

It may be too much work.

Johan Larsson

I'm so happy I have no db & crud in my life

Robusto

7:36 PM

I'm about to have none in mine. It's only a matter of time.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus autohotkey is the wrong tool for automating developer workstation tasks.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Perhaps, but if it can still do the job...

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus Then write a script that writes the scripts you will need in the future.

technological singularity

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson Hehe. That would be possible, but I'd have to first write all those future scripts in order to automate them.

Robusto

Well, better get crackin'!

Cerberus

7:37 PM

So if you have to do something different every time, then you will of course need some human input.

But if it is similar enough, you might be able to save a lot of time by automating all that you can.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus It'd be a bit like replacing your doorknob with a screwdriver, because the doorknob doesn't work well, but if you snap it off and jam a screwdriver in there, then you can open the door. As long as nobody tries to open the door from the inside.

Cerberus

Sure.

If it saves you time, then do it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Or you could just replace the doorknob with a proper doorknob.

Cerberus

But the premise is that you can't.

You either have to fumble with the doorknob for an hour every day, or you stick in the screwdriver.

Or you sell the house.

Johan Larsson

or burn it

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:48 PM

well, you always can. it just means you have to go to the store to buy one.

And nobody wants to authorize the expenditure.

and you don't want to do it on your own time.

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson I almost typed that!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You could demand it.

Or convince them.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

heh

Cerberus

Or, again, burn the place down.

Johan Larsson

8:43 PM

> Never believe anything until it has been officially denied!

Cerberus

9:11 PM

Heh I know that quotation.

Johan Larsson

how is life my friend?

Cerberus

Fine, and yours?

Cerberus

9:29 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 How do you feel about this?:

> My home desktop is mission critical - to me. After having suffered through two updates that broke or degraded performance on my machine, I switched over to the Enterprise LTSB version and haven't looked back. The absence of things I do not want (Cortana, Store, Edge, telemetry, forced updates) is how Windows 10 should be. Lack of choice is absolutely frustrating. arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/09/…

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus 1.9

been a little sick of coding on and off lately

Cerberus

Hmm.

Out of how much?

Is it that you like a different kind of coding better?

Or do you want to do something other than coding altogether?

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus 5

@Cerberus dunno, life goes up and down.

Cerberus

Hmm that is not high.

What things in life are you happy about?

> I for one am welcoming the return of Microsoft Arrogance. As an old school Mac guy from the 80's and 90's, of course Microsoft was the Enemy™, Sadly, Microsoft had been making long strides in making me like them; what with their anti-Google stuff and windows phone had some nice features. Even IE was shaping up to be nice.

So I was beginning to grudgingly give them credit.

But now it appears I can return to my roots of Microsoft bashing and be totally legit about my gripes and complaints! Thanks, Nadella!

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus can think of {} right now. Not as bad as it sounds.

Cerberus

9:38 PM

Your dogs?

Your house?

Johan Larsson

/ whining

Cerberus

Your girlfriend?

Your family?

Johan Larsson

was not why I asked

Cerberus

I know.

Johan Larsson

I should have answered fine :)

1.9 is not that low, 2.5 should be average no?

1.9 perhaps monday average

guess it is a little low on a friday

Cerberus

9:42 PM

Heh.

I suppose you are right.

We're all too much used to people always saying they are doing "great" by default.

Johan Larsson

was too lazy to type it again

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Government Surveillance (HBO)

►

found that show yesterday, pretty good

nice mix of actual substance and comedy

Cerberus

10:03 PM

@JohanLarsson Haha, that's nice.

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Are you saying comedy and substance can't coexist? Then you should have been around for The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, which is where John Oliver got his start.

Johan Larsson

@Robusto No the opposite, the mix perfectly in this case

Tricky balance though, I have heard many talks by non-comedians where it has felt like they have focused too much on the comedy.

Robusto

Non-comedians giving comedic talks? That can't end well.

Johan Larsson

Usually talkers try to have a couple of laughs no matter the subject no?

And it is fine.

Trying too hard can be distracting/annoying

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

11:26 PM

Interesting.

0

Q: Europe during these years seemed to prove that such was possible

My question is as to the usage of the word such in the following passage . The order of the day was, quite simply, self- improvement, national improvement, and attainable perfection; the great successes of Europe during these years seemed to prove that such was possible. I feel like the...

That user is suspended on ELL, so now ELU is where they post their questions.

It's charming how effective the suspension was.

skill patrol

Lovely.

Robusto

11:42 PM

Why suspended?

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M BTW, I rolled back your edit of my post on MSE. You made it not make sense.

Rule of thumb: I may have a typo now and then, which people are free to edit, but substantive text is pretty much the way I like it.

And if I have a bolded meta-note like Edited to add, it's there for a reason.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Robusto No problemo.

@Robusto None of us mere mortals can be sure, but I have a hunch it was because they went on a disruptive close vote spree because their last questions got closed.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…